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Pokey, our dalmation/border collie mix, is somewhere around 13 years old and has been doing well except that his hips are giving him some difficulty. We went for a short trip last week for my birthday, so him and his sister (toy fox terrier, about 2 years younger) went to the kennel. We were going to pick them up on Monday, but I got a call from the kennel saying he was having problems with his balance, his eyes were flicking side to side, and he was vomiting. They were sending him to a vet, but wanted to know if we had a specific preference. We got that all worked out and the missus and daughter picked him and sis up yesterday. He had been given a shot for the nausea and he pretty much slept all night long. Today he's able to move around a bit better, but he's still very shaky and has the distinctive head tilt and eye movement. He won't eat or drink anything yet, so I'm thinking that tomorrow we'll take him to the vet to get subcutaneous liquids injected just to keep him from dehydrating and maybe another nausea shot. I did search on the forums for any other talk about this, and what I found was about 2 years ago. Is there any new information about this? Any good tips or tricks we should be using to help him be more comfortable/eat/drink? Are there things we shouldn't try or should avoid? I don't want to put him down, so what should we be looking for to see if his problem is specifically the title of the thread or something more serious like a tumor or a real stroke? His ears are fine, so it's not an infection that got out of control from outer to middle to inner ear. I just want my Pokey to be better and not be a miserable sick doggie.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:13
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:18 |
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Things seem to be changing. We picked up some medicine droppers, Ensure, and Pedialyte tonight and got him at least some liquids. He wasn't a fan of the Ensure, but he did enjoy the Pedialyte since it's a bit sweet. We took droppers full and squirted those into the back of his mouth through his teeth, and he drank them down. He still won't eat, but he is keeping the Pedialyte down and not spitting it out or vomiting. He's not starving. His ribs are well covered with thick skin and the area between his ribs and hips aren't thin or showing backbone. I was more worried about him not drinking more than not eating. We'll see how the Pedialyte through medicine droppers goes. I really don't want to put him down yet, so we're giving him every chance to get as well as he can get.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:28
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Hey there, Sorry your dog is not feeling well! Basically, when a dog is showing signs like your dog is, we can only say they have a problem with their vestibular system. The vestibular system is the system that controls balance, orientation, perception of the horizon etc. It's what you learn about with the little hairs that vibrate and the little stones that roll around in your middle/inner ear to equilibrate yourself. Basically, the nuclei that are involved with the vestibular system live in the brainstem and cerebellum, and the projections (cranial nerve 8) go out to the middle/inner ear and the nerve endings are there. So when there's a vestibular problem, we tend to break the likely causes down into two categories based on whether it is peripheral (middle/inner ear) or central (brainstem/cerebellum). There are some clues on physical and neurological exam that can point us in one direction or the other - there are some other nerves that run by the middle/inner ear (cranial nerve 7 and the sympathetic innervation to the eye) where sometimes if there's concurrent dysfunction (facial nerve palsy, Horner's syndrome) of those we think it's most likely peripheral. Then of course there are areas of the brainstem and cerebellum surrounding the vestibular nuclei (cranial nerve 5 nuclei, some tracts that run out to the limbs on the same side that go from the cerebrum down the spinal cord and convey information back and forth, centers that control level of awareness, cerebellar regions that control coordination of movement...a lot more...) that if they are affected can clue us in that there's a central problem inside of the brain. Sometimes the character of the nystagmus (abnormal eye movements) can give us a better idea that there's a central lesion. If you don't have any other signs than just vestibular dysfunction, and the nystagmus is side to side and the fast phase in the opposite direction as the head tilt and falling/circling/ataxia, you can be reasonably sure but not certain that it's a peripheral (outside of the brain) problem. Peripheral causes for vestibular disease could be things like inner/middle ear infections (which can be seen without evidence of external ear infection as sometimes the infections can travel from the mouth up the eustachian tubes), some types of round cell cancers (lymphoma), some infectious/inflammatory conditions, endocrine conditions, tumors of the middle/inner ear and of course, the most common cause, idiopathic (or in other words, we have no loving idea why it happens)/"old dog" vestibular disease. If there are other signs on exam that point to a brain lesion, consideration would be given to a stroke, a brain tumor, encephalitis/meningitis, congenital abnormality that's decompensated, toxin, etc. The only way to definitively know if it's old dog vestibular syndrome would be to do some preliminary bloodwork to rule out endocrine diseases, then an MRI of the brain and middle/inner ear and spinal tap to rule out these other things. We do this fairly frequently in my world. In reality though, your average older dog that presents with a super acute onset of peripheral-appearing vestibular signs is quite likely to have old dog vestibular syndrome and if otherwise stable, the waiting and watching approach is pretty reasonable IMO. If any other signs come up or it's not improving even a little bit within a week or so, then we start to get a little concerned. Even if it's central and acute, and is a stroke, dogs usually recover from those quite quickly as well. It's not like in people where they continually hemorrhage (dogs usually have a different type of stroke) and they don't need things like fine motor control and nobody cares if they are just a little more uncoordinated than they used to be or have a bit of a head tilt remaining. USUALLY brain tumors don't have dramatic vestibular signs that come on super quickly with the dog having been completely normal beforehand, but we have seen tumors do all kinds of weird things. If it's a brain tumor it will wax and wane or just progressively worsen. Other things (encephalitis, inner/middle ear infection, etc) will tend to worsen. So watchful waiting, if it's between that or euthanasia, is useful in these dogs and I will usually say to give them a fair shake and see if they get better, because the reality is that most of them will, with no real intervention from us aside from maybe anti-nausea medications. You can actually ask your vet about buying anti-nausea medications (I tend to use meclizine OTC) that you can give orally so you don't have to go back for injections. He just needs more time, as long as he isn't worsening, and he'll probably come around if it's truly old dog vestibular syndrome. If it's not, you'll probably know in short order. Good luck, and if you have questions feel free to PM me.
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Mar 31, 2016 04:42
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Thanks for the excellent reply, Sekhmet. My family and I appreciate your knowledge and your assistance with our dog's current problem. He's a wonderful pooch and is the most inoffensive dog in the entire world. Only his hot breath and his ability to throw hair everywhere makes him a problem, so I want him to live a wonderful life forever. He's moving around, sniffing at food and water. Still not eating, but he did get after his water bowl last night lapping up water like a thirsty dog. He also took the meclizine I bought him (dissolved into a cup of Pedialyte and given to him with a dropper). He seems to be changing and getting better each day, so that makes me and the rest of the family happy. I don't want to put him down. He's been a wonderful companion to all of us for many years, but I won't let him be a miserable dog with no chance of getting better. Here's looking forward to good replies to this thread!
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Apr 1, 2016 03:35
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Pokey as a puppy:
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Apr 1, 2016 03:36
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Our dog (border collie/German shepherd mix) had the same thing at about the same age. She had several attacks over the next couple of years, but recovered each time. The first few days she would be glued to the floor - we had her lay on a thick layer of towels and a waterproof crib pad since she couldn't get up to go to the bathroom. After that, she would get up long enough to wobble out and go to the bathroom (with some support from a sling under her belly - towels work well for that, too), but otherwise moved as little as possible. After about a week and a half to two weeks, she was moving independently. It took time for her to get back to moving confidently and taking the stairs without having someone standing next to her, but she got it back. Staying hydrated is important. You might want to try alternating the pedialyte with a low salt or sodium free broth. Mackie wouldn't eat for the first few days, so we went with bland food after that, just a little at a time. She went through a pretty predictable run each time - glued to the floor and actively resisting picking up her head or moving, starting to pick up her head, moving around more, trying to stand, standing, walking with assistance, walking, gradually recovering her balance, being fine.
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Apr 1, 2016 13:47
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Bonster, the same thing is happening with Pokey. He just doesn't want to eat, and I'm very worried about calorie intake. We're using Ensure and Pedialyte along with a ground-up Bonine tablet once a day mixed in with his liquids. Gonna keep a tight eye on him this weekend so hopefully I'll have some good news by Sunday. His eyes have stopped bouncing back and forth, but he's still not the dog we sent to the kennel. He shakes his head and falls down and when he goes down the hall, he tends to fall over to one side still. When he lays down, he shivers, so we keep him covered up with a good thick towel so he's warm. He goes over to corners in the house, stands, and stares now. I just want him to poo poo or get off the pot at this time. The uncertainty is painful to all of us. GPF fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 06:00
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Give it more time. I know it's frustrating and scary, but it will get better! If Pokey's following the same course as Mackie (and it sounds like it), he'll find his footing again. Mackie stood in the corner, too - I think the confined space made her feel more stable. Just imagine he's in a ship on rough seas right now.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:54
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Yay! A good step forward! Pokey actually ate with what can be considered his best shot at 'gusto'. He got down a half pouch of wet dog food and, so far, has kept it down well. He's walking a bit better and has actually went in and drank from the dog bowl on his own. Good thing. He bought himself some real extra time.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:30
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Yay! Old dog vestibular is very scary to see but is fortunately something that resolves with time. I'm glad it's getting better.
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Apr 3, 2016 16:33
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Braki posted:Yay! Old dog vestibular is very scary to see but is fortunately something that resolves with time. I'm glad it's getting better. And things ARE getting better day by day. His appetite is returning. I'm beginning to not feel his ribs and backbone directly through his skin. He's showing excitement for things much closer to the way he did before. He even picked up and ate a large sized Milk-Bone we had left for him before going to dinner. He waited until we were back until he got it, but he did get it, took it to the room where my daughter and I were talking, and chewed it up and ate it. He has been totally avoiding crunchy food, only accepting wet pouch food. Tonight he has changed definitely towards the better. I'm exceptionally glad he's doing better and thanks to everyone that suggested we be patient and give him more time. None of us wanted to send him to the "farm", but I didn't want to force a miserable dog to stay alive just because we would miss him. Now I feel he's less miserable every day and beginning to enjoy himself once again.
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Apr 7, 2016 02:20
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:18 |
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Well, as of now, Pokey is doing very well. He's eating on a regular basis, waters himself, goes out to pee and poo, and seems to be a happier dog again. He still can't make it down the stairs by himself, but he wants to. Trying to figure out a way for him to come downstairs on his own safely. Either way, he's a much happier dog than he was just 2 weeks after going downhill. Unless something happens or someone wants to add any information for others, this'll be my last post in this thread. Thanks to everyone and their help.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:31
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