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edgeman83
Jul 13, 2003


I have found that I will fight against what another person is talking about, no matter what the topic. This doesn't just happen if I feel strongly about their position, it also happens even if I have previously argued for their given position. I would like to say I try to be the devil's advocate, but it is an almost an instinctual response. There is usually no thought put into my responses other than to be opposed to what the other person is saying. This of course leads to people thinking I am(rightfully) an rear end in a top hat. Has anyone else found themselves instinctively taking the opposite position when in a discussion?

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Croisquessein
Feb 25, 2005

invisible or nonexistent, and should be treated as such


I like to have debates and I find it easy to see alternative viewpoints, so when somebody expresses an opinion I'm the one most likely to respond, "Well..." and it's got me in trouble a lot at family gatherings. I've also gotten a lot of great discussions out of it, and I don't think people consider me an rear end in a top hat for being contrary. However I also think most people don't like conflicting with others and I've frequently mistaken a statement as an invitation to have a debate, and I don't realize I'm wrong until the other person gets angry at being disagreed with (my stepdad) or gets weirded out by my sudden intensity (most other people). I've had great discussions where somebody else appologized afterward thinking they'd made me upset, but I wouldn't argue if I didn't want to. It's kind of confusing.

But this comes from the enjoyment I get from engaging somebody else, I don't think I argue just to disagree, and I try to be honest and fair in my arguments. If you're just bickering with people constantly for no particular reason, that would be pretty annoying I think. Maybe you're competitive and this is how it comes out. Maybe agreeing with people or letting it slide feels like losing.

Try to read other people and don't push an argument when they aren't into it, also try to think about why you think you're right or the other person is wrong. It's a habit so it will take effort to change, if that's what you want. You just gotta catch yourself doing it a few times and make the decision to not be a dick, and you'll be well on your way.

I'm still working on it though. I love me a good petty squabble.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

edgeman83 posted:

I have found that I will fight against what another person is talking about, no matter what the topic. This doesn't just happen if I feel strongly about their position, it also happens even if I have previously argued for their given position. I would like to say I try to be the devil's advocate, but it is an almost an instinctual response. There is usually no thought put into my responses other than to be opposed to what the other person is saying. This of course leads to people thinking I am(rightfully) an rear end in a top hat. Has anyone else found themselves instinctively taking the opposite position when in a discussion?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.

DJ Fuckboy Supreme
Feb 10, 2011

And when you stare long into the abyss, you become aggressively, terminally chill



Gabriel Pope posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.

it's the smartest thing I've ever heard and yes they do

keep it down up there!
Jun 22, 2006

How's it goin' eh?



Gabriel Pope posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.

If only that were the case. I have 2 friends who like to do this and our entire group has basically just agreed to ignore them when they take ridiculous stances on things. I always figured they just enjoyed arguing, but when they don't actually believe their stance and are playing devils rear end in a top hat you can't actually have a rational conversation that makes any progress, which is just the most exhausting thing ever.

People who like ton argue for the sake of arguing are just assholes.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





So if an attractive (insert appropriate gender here) was like "Hey, we should have sex" would you suddenly start arguing as to why the two of you should not have sex?

Buzkashi
Feb 4, 2003


College Slice

http://www.theonion.com/article/man...t-wants-to-5622

Thanks Derek.

edgeman83
Jul 13, 2003


Gabriel Pope posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.
It really is the dumbest thing but sadly it really happens. I have to constantly stop myself from being overly antagonistic in conversations and not see anything but the "flaws" in what they are saying. I don't know if it is some kind of unconscious need to always be right or what, but it is something I absolutely hate doing. It has cost me close friends and keeps people from wanting to have conversations with me. Know-it-alls are not fun people to hang around with.

WampaLord posted:

So if an attractive (insert appropriate gender here) was like "Hey, we should have sex" would you suddenly start arguing as to why the two of you should not have sex?
I could totally see that as something I would do, actually. I really am my own worst enemy sometimes.

StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007



Exchanging glaaances..



Goddamn, trap sprung Gabriel Pope. Good show.

Ocean Book
Sep 27, 2010

- hi

Have you tried to not do that?

Buzkashi
Feb 4, 2003


College Slice

Hey OP I think it's a good thing and you should do it forever. Spite me please.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Gabriel Pope posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.

NotAnArtist posted:

it's the smartest thing I've ever heard and yes they do

It's the the most average thing I've heard and some people do that and others do not do that. Maybe.

SEX BURRITO
Jun 30, 2007

Not much fun

It's very loving annoying when people do this. And it makes you look desperate to be the smartest guy in the room.

Either learn to shut up, or buy an 'I'm an atheist... debate me!' t-shirt and start every sentence with 'actualllllly'.

LiterallyAnything
Jul 11, 2008

I HAVE BAD OPINIONS ABOUT VIDEO GAMES AND MUSIC

I do this a lot; take that as you will.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


A friend of mine does this, at length, speaking very slowly and loudly. It took us a while to learn to just shout over him and tell him to stop talking so we could have a turn. It works pretty well and there's no hard feelings. I guess he knows what he's doing.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


I've learned that it's OK to let people be wrong or have weird opinions about stuff that doesn't matter.

Unless their opinion is that it's a good idea and endearing to be an obnoxious contrarian about everything. Shut that one down

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009


This is a cool and good thing, OP, and you should do this more often.

And before anyone suggests it, don't get therapy. That's for chumps.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl



IF you want you could stop looking at everyday banalities as a potential competition where you 'win' by making the other person too irritated to want to speak to you and just try to be pleasant to people.

many johnnys
May 17, 2015



Gabriel Pope posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No one really does that IRL.

Yeah they do, and the couple I've met don't have very many friends.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





edgeman83 posted:

I could totally see that as something I would do, actually. I really am my own worst enemy sometimes.

I refuse to believe you would argue your way out of sex with an attractive person.

Now you have to do it to be a contrarian!

many johnnys
May 17, 2015



I've met two habitual contrarians recently.

The first one, Tim, I met through a personal ad. Call it what you will, but I like to meet randoms. We're nerds, and we've met some cool people through the Internet. Anyway, my wife and I met up with Tim at some bookstore, and we walked around and chatted about stuff. Movies we liked? That movie was terrible, they changed the ending. An artist? They're a hack. Hell, she started talking about her favorite comic shop, at which point he argued that the place is terrible and full of know-it-all snobs (it's widely known to be the most accessible friendliest shop in the city). For making a first impression, saying your favorite things suck and your friends are poo poo is an interesting strategy to take. We stopping hanging out with him pretty shortly after.

The second one, Brian, I met through some meetup groups that we both happened to attend. He loves being contrarian about every random thing. And he gets really intense about it sometimes, to the point where people in the group don't like to talk to him. I'm sure that him attending things has resulted in others leaving the group, not because of anything he did to them, but more because he makes people uncomfortable. Sometimes it seems like he's arguing just to get a reaction out of people. He once had a mini-meltdown about wikipedia. As a result, I hear he's been kicked out of other meetup groups, and the one I attend will organize after-parties that he doesn't know about.


edgeman83 posted:

It really is the dumbest thing but sadly it really happens. I have to constantly stop myself from being overly antagonistic in conversations and not see anything but the "flaws" in what they are saying. I don't know if it is some kind of unconscious need to always be right or what, but it is something I absolutely hate doing. It has cost me close friends and keeps people from wanting to have conversations with me. Know-it-alls are not fun people to hang around with.
I don't think anyone is thinking of you in terms of a know-it-all.

Rakosi
May 5, 2008


edgeman83 posted:

I have found that I will fight against what another person is talking about, no matter what the topic. This doesn't just happen if I feel strongly about their position, it also happens even if I have previously argued for their given position. I would like to say I try to be the devil's advocate, but it is an almost an instinctual response. There is usually no thought put into my responses other than to be opposed to what the other person is saying. This of course leads to people thinking I am(rightfully) an rear end in a top hat. Has anyone else found themselves instinctively taking the opposite position when in a discussion?

You are ENTP. Congrats, so am I.

https://www.16personalities.com/entp-personality

many johnnys
May 17, 2015




can you do my horoscope next?

many johnnys
May 17, 2015



many johnnys posted:

can you do my horoscope next?

In case this comes off as a random nonsense comment: the myers briggs 16 personality types are a bunch of horseshit with no actual science behind them, and are as meaningful as someone's astrological sign. People don't slot into categories that easily. The OP isn't an ENTP, he's an argumentative prick (no offense OP)

Rakosi
May 5, 2008


many johnnys posted:

In case this comes off as a random nonsense comment: the myers briggs 16 personality types are a bunch of horseshit with no actual science behind them, and are as meaningful as someone's astrological sign. People don't slot into categories that easily. The OP isn't an ENTP, he's an argumentative prick (no offense OP)

OP posts microcosm of his personality, so i post bullshit myers briggs test. I think it fits imo

OhAreThey
Oct 12, 2012

I like your nurse's uniform, guy.

Almost all contrarians I know are men. Men who find a lot of self-worth in their (so-called) intelligence. They must always be the one with the last word on a topic. They love to start sentences with "Actually..." They must prove others wrong to show that they are right, even if it means arguing their way out of sex with an attractive person or slowly losing all their friends.

I expect it's lonely at the top, OP. You might want to seek counseling to explore why you must always be right, even when you yourself know that you are desperately wrong.

ANUSTART
Jun 26, 2013


ur jiri3-pax(PAD)-ra2 al-tukur2?-re
gu-du-ni an-na-ab-be2
a-ra-/ab-gig-ga\-[(X)]-e-ce


- Wisdom of the ages.

I've met a number of these people throughout life and have never stayed friends with any

also known as "ugh that guy" in college classes

Big Bowie Bonanza
Dec 29, 2007

please tell me where i can date this cute boy


i used to be like this and i learned a valuable skill called shutting my dumb fat mouth

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


ANUSTART posted:

I've met a number of these people throughout life and have never stayed friends with any

also known as "ugh that guy" in college classes

One of these guys was best man at his friend's wedding and moments before walking down the aisle he was heard loudly cussing out the wedding planner.

I hate that guy so much.

Enfys
Feb 17, 2013


Someone's a lucky bird


Charles' Rules of Argument

edgeman83
Jul 13, 2003


For all of the people who have described me as a douchebag: you are 100% correct. Being "right" all of the time has lead me to nothing but losing nearly all of my friends. Hell, my best friend of 20 years barely ever talks to me anymore because I disagree with him so much. Some of it is being of opposing political leanings but most is my compulsion to constantly argue against what he says. That we have been friends for as long as we have reflects well on him, not me.

FordPRefectLL posted:

I don't think anyone is thinking of you in terms of a know-it-all.
Actually, people have described me as such. Opinionated is another polite way others have put it. It was actually one of the wake-up calls I had to try to change how I interact with people. I had always known I has strong opinions when it came to things I strongly believed in, but it wasn't until my own mother admitted to me that people saw me as a know-it-all I that I realized it was one of the reasons people have felt uncomfortable around me. The hardest part of changing my behavior is that I don't always recognize what I am saying until a long time after I have said it. Listen->Think->Speak always seems to be derailed at the Think step.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

It's how her species communicates!

Maybe just shut the gently caress up.

People are wrong every day and they get by just fine, you're helping no one.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

~ it's our ~

~ final fantasy ~


(just don't ask them about "the after years")



Grimey Drawer

You guys are going about this the wrong way.

OP, what you are doing is perfectly normal and healthy. You should keep arguing with friends, family, and complete strangers, and if anything argue more with them. Arguing with people just brings you closer to them, and it's obvious they're envious of how knowledgeable you are about the world. The only way you're going to be happy is if you double-down and argue twice as much in your everyday life. Eventually you'll learn to only speak in arguments, and at that point your life will be at its most fulfilling.

Hope that helps.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

~ it's our ~

~ final fantasy ~


(just don't ask them about "the after years")



Grimey Drawer

Also if someone figures out a sure-fire solution to cure the OP please copy-paste it in every forum thread and Facebook feed on the internet, thank you.

Keep Autism Wired
Feb 22, 2009

Kristen Schaal Lub Club


this might be what hegel's dialectical method is all about, the way Mind moves and changes

Acres of Quakers
May 6, 2006


Lipstick Apathy

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” - Kurt Cobain

SurfaceDetail
Feb 17, 2016

by Cowcaster


I disagree with everything in this thread.

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich


edgeman83 posted:

Actually...

Yikes.

turbomoose
Nov 29, 2008
Playing the banjo can be a relaxing activity and create lifelong friendships!
\


No one likes arguing. That is what you should assume. Even if someone likes arguing (unlikely) then they probably don't want to argue with you. People will argue with you for pride more than joy like 99% of the time which means instead of a fun two way conversation it's you patronizing/belittling them until they leave or start to ignore you.

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Stinky_Pete
Aug 15, 2015

Stinkier than your average bear

Lipstick Apathy

Just channel it, OP.

I have a friend on Steam who sometimes chats me up during the day when I'm at work or whatever, and he's the sort of self-proclaimed liberal who will nonetheless link me to Breitbart instead of clicking through to the actually credible corroborating source, because he likes to follow news sites with lower standards, which are therefore quicker to publish stories that are later verified (or not) by actual news organizations. He loves to pass off crank reporting and fast conclusions, and I love to poke holes in it.

Find your muse.

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