Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Segmentation Fault posted:

We went a year without pooptouching! :toot:

Something we should all be proud of.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

cheese-cube posted:

i'll buy this tag for the next 10 ppl who quote this post (might take me a couple of days to do so, ive just moved house and have no internet yet)

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

computer toucher posted:

Yep.

"I wonder how many will be infected with this poo poo on a spamrun" -> Normal malware
"I wonder if company X will be dumb enough to run this exe I send them" -> APT, as described by security vendors.

Best I can tell the bar for APT is things that malware was doing 10 years ago.


But on an enterprise network.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Not the cleverly named vuln we wanted but the one we deserved.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

anthonypants posted:

apparently if you generated enough bit.ly urls you could get access to someone's onedrive until microsoft removed the feature http://www.wired.com/2016/04/researchers-cracked-microsoft-googles-shortened-urls-spy-people/

This is from a good friend and my old PhD advisor, the paper is worth a read for the laughs.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

jony ive aces posted:

unless you get owned by bit.ly or whatever


e: like i assume that won't happen if you use onedrive properly but the wired article doesn't really make it clear so idk. tech journalism is trash

Skip the articles and just read paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.02734v1.pdf

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

that thread is bad and that guy is the worst

I don't know why I have all the security related threads outside of this one bookmarked, reading them just makes me sad or angry.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

my SA password is ******

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

If malware websites using HTTPS seems like a scary or notable change you've made some serious mistakes.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Godaddy is my favorite for getting certs because even for the couple test DV certs I got they call me when they're getting close to expiring and I get to hear a live human being say "would you like to get a new certificate for dickbutt.<...>.su?"

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

My favorite part is the part where Shaggar thinks getting a DV cert from anyone else is hard or requires stronger checks than what Let's Encrypt does.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Shaggar posted:

lets encrypt is the worst of them because they provide automated mechanisms for malware to get certs and their policy specifically states that they're ok with signing malware certs.

I haven't checked the policies of the other free cert providers yet. I know startcom is one but who are others?

What exactly concerns you with malware having certificates?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Shaggar posted:

ive already talked about it but normal users use certificate trust (aka the padlock in the address bar) as a sign that the site is ok.

Yeah that's dumb. TLS needs to be the default, not some extra 'special' sauce.


The idea that paying :10bux: for a trusted SSL certificate helps against malware makes as much sense as saying paying :10bux: for an account on SA prevents shitposting, but here we are arguing with Shaggar.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Shaggar posted:

oh hey look, the 10bux actually works really loving well. if someone keeps getting banned they gently caress off and don't come back. They can also get permabanned because their credit cards provide lowtax with atleast some level of identification.

The forums provide litterrally more identity verification than Lets Encrypt.

TLS for the sake of TLS is loving worthless if you cant trust the other endpoint. If they have a Lets Encrypt cert you cannot trust them. All you can do is guarantee your traffic is encrypted.

Encryption without trust is a waste of time.

And yes there may be other free cert providers but Lets encrypt goes even further by automating this process and explicitly stating they have no problems with malware sites using their certs.

I don't think you understand what trust means in the context of TLS. Let's Encrypt certificates do give you as much confidence as any other DV cert that the owner of the domain owns the private key for the certificate presented.

That's all certificate trust is there to tell you, not some moronic nonsense about malware.

e:

Rufus Ping posted:

Subjunctive: Sounds like the kind of thing adrienne porter felt has probably looked into
Yeah, she's done a lot of good research in the area of security UX and TLS stuff specifically including this as well as error messages more recently.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Shaggar posted:

not actually true


Also certs that cost money are far less likely to be purchased by malware users, especially with automated free cert providers out there now. So paid dv certs provide a small confidence benefit over free certs.

Even in the middle of this really awful article Trend admits the reality of certificates:

quote:

Domain-validation certificates only confirm that the relevant domain is under the control of the site recipient.

If you believe certificates do more than that then you are wrong.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

in 2010 when I joined the board of StopBadware (the clearinghouse for the Google safe-browsing list, among other things) malvertisers and other miscreants were already getting DV certs for any number of domains. when I raised it at CABForum with CA operators, nobody was interested in doing anything about it, including not wanting to go to short-lived certs so that bad actors once identified could have their certs neutered.

nobody doing actually interesting malware deployment will be put off by a $15 charge, they're already paying more than that for hosting in multiple locations and domain registrations.

I'm actually on the their side on this one, its not the CA's business to certify if the person is bad or not, only that they are who they say they are. The last thing we need is a such an ambiguous area of decision making in the hands of CAs.

quote:

a. Active eavesdropping (e.g., Man-in-the-Middle [MitM] attacks); and
So far no one has revorked or cared about the certs I've got to find bugs in applications that gently caress up/disable hostname verification. Someday.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

pseudorandom name posted:

oh, and also:
This one is especially important, Shaggar, because while deleting GeoTrust blocks your access to Google and Symantec/VeriSign blocks your access to Microsoft, deleting Comodo spares us of your posting.

The best thing the CA model has given us so far.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

I dunno, the credible death threats Kathleen and I got when Mozilla added CNNIC as a root were pretty fun. (Mozilla and Google now actively distrust that root, even if cross-signed, because of grossly improper issuance. Microsoft continues to trust it fully as a root.)

People on the Internet and their loving death threats, will we ever grow up?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

all my passwords are hashes of shaggar posts

Salted with the names of Microsoft products?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Sharktopus posted:

not necessarily a sec fuckup but it makes me giggle:

https://code.google.com/p/android/i...%BC%A9%EF%BC%A4

Stealing this

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011


Its 2016 and people still say "don't connect to untrusted networks". Jesus Christ how can people still miss the point so hard.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Phoenixan posted:

hey if phones, tablets, and windows 10 are willing to connect to open networks by default setting automatically it's gotta be secure enough!

Phones, tablets, and (hopefully) windows 10 consider all networks untrusted, because they are.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Powercrazy posted:

"These things clearly only exist to torment me. "

Yes, I'm sure the modern banking system with accounting and routing numbers and the fun vulnerabilities those entail, exist because the knights of templar knew that in TYOOL 2016 there would be a GIRL on the INTERNET!

I see we don't like hyperbole when it's written by GIRLS on the INTERNET

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

grey thread reported that one of the malware removal tools we recommend was installing itself long term and upselling, so we're removing it from the program today and someone is writing them a letter.

thanks, grey thread

thread

I hope it's strongly worded

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Subjunctive posted:

strongliest

Does the first letter of every line spell out "gently caress YOU"?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011


Tavis focusing on AV has been the best source of funny public bugs that show how dumb this whole industry is.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Number19 posted:

https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/735940720931012608

this looks like it could be a pretty bad thing. start pinning your certs if you haven't

I hate bluecoat more than just about anyone in this thread but this response is overreacting. If bluecoat does something evil with that CA it will be noticed and that CA will be blacklisted by all OS and browser vendors faster and more effectively than a bunch of windows admins winging on twitter can dream.


Relax. The CA model is actually better at handling this poo poo than other proposed systems, CA businesses that issue MiTM certs kinda stop being CAs.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

anthonypants posted:

yes i agree, symantec specifically has been a good gatekeeper http://colin.keigher.ca/2015/09/geotrustsymantec-has-revoked-all-ssl.html

As lame and dumb as that was there are much better examples. Misissuance is the sky is falling sort of event, incorrectly revoking just makes them dumb. Did you expect Symantec to be smart? They do AV.

LordSaturn posted:

how will we know if they do

Chrome's detection of the various MiTM google.com certs over the years is just one example. Browsers and OSes actually watch for sketchy poo poo because catching bad CAs red handed is awesome fun and the only way to make a trust model work.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

DuckConference posted:

can someone explain the qualcom trustzone key thing?

it seems like the idea is:
have trustzone private key--> ??? --> get hardware key for that device --> hardware key + probably simple passcode is the key for full disk encryption

Hardware backed keys are wrapped with the key burnt into the device that is only accessible by TZ, this makes the key blobs useless if they are removed from the device. If you steal the private key then that protection goes away. For disk encryption that drops the security of your disk encryption key from brute forcing the key space to the strength of your password, which is probably very weak.

apseudonym fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jun 1, 2016

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011


To be fair you should still be using end to end encryption so this shouldn't matter.


Shouldn't :smithicide:

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

I completely ignore certifications when reading resumes, who cares?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Pull up thread, pull up!

quote:

Jake is known to do whatever it takes to get others to do all the work, but have his name listed first on the paper "because the names should be alphabetically sorted."

What the gently caress? Who would publish with someone that does that?

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Triglav posted:

manarchist

Please tell me you just made that word up and its not a thing. :ohdear:

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

spankmeister posted:

:eyepop: didnt know this was possible, thanks


yeah thanks, but i rooted my phone a while back to install snoopsnitch, and it hosed up OTA updates so i unrooted and flashed back to stock which was all a very annoying process so i don't want to go down that rabbit hole again.

You can't get OTAs if you've modified your system partition so :shrug:

Also please don't root your devices you are the worst part of your device's security.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

OSI bean dip posted:

bromium's job is to put every app into their own container. the idea is to make it hard to infect a system with a specific application, etc. if you download a file in internet explorer, it belongs to internet explorer and won't execute outside of its sandbox

it supports a bunch of apps

tbh i don't mind this idea but it doesn't really scale and is really a bandaid solution

Sandboxes are the long term solution, but cludging it onto to OSes that werent designed with sandboxing in mind dont go great and most sandbox products are poo poo and AV levels of lies.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

Yeah we can go to conferences but only wanky terrible start-uppy conferences like that Oracle circlejerk one or dumb things about Node.JS :smith:

Just do what I do when I go to DEFCON, drink and pretend you dont know anyone.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

also take the battery out of your phone and nailpolish on every screw and seem on your lappy

Its DEFCON in TYOOL 2016, its much less interesting now, just dont be dumb.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011


Tying recovery and 2FA to phone numbers is so god drat dumb.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

spankmeister posted:

when doing a con you don't really have a lit of time to go hiking or whatever so you're sorta stuck in vegas for the duration


There's only like a few good talks at defcon and blackhat every year, you can make time.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

invision posted:

Get VMWare Player here:
https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_workstation_player/12_0

Install linux in your vm then install DVWA:
http://www.dvwa.co.uk/

Or OWASP BWA:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/owaspbwa/files/1.2/


Or for not-really-web-app-based vulns, download a vulnerable VM from here:
https://www.vulnhub.com/


Now install Kali in another VM that you're going to attack the first one from:
https://www.kali.org/downloads/

Go to town.


No experience with linux? Forget all of the above, install Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop in a VM and get familiar with the linux command line, prob some bash scripting and a little python never hurt nobody.

security 101 tools in no order:
http://www.google.com
ncat
wireshark
hashcat
http://www.google.com
nmap (zenmap if u want i guess?)
burpsuite
nikto
https://www.google.com
dirb
metasploit is great and all but don't get sucked into relying on it. don't even wanna recommend people using msf solely because people tend to get stuck on it forever and don't ever learn how to actually do things without it.
and finally
https://google.com

Dont touch metasploit if you're new to security unless your goal is to just blindly run other people's tools.

Hell, write some lovely tools yourself, its not hard and you'll probably learn a lot more than running tools will teach you.

  • Locked thread