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World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





The Protagonist posted:

I think it's worth pointing out, DS1 is literally the only fromsoft game that has that windy interconnected nature everyone loved. They haven't done it since.

yharnam and ashina are both internally coherent single areas, aren't they?

actually I assumed that about ashina but now that I think about it - the drop to mibu village and stuff - I'm not so sure

illusorywall's video on the layout of dark souls 3 was fun though. the world is intentionally a bizarre, poorly-fitting mishmash, but what's there is surprisingly consistent between actual in-level placement and the corresponding far-off skyboxes

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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I have special eyes.

Just think of all the cool stuff I can see.


The comparison that popped into my head is the difference between DMC1 and DMC3 and onward. Obviously they're all stylish character action games, but the former was still showing its roots as a weird Resident Evil spinoff. Maybe not a perfect analogy but close enough, I think. Hell, you've even got the much maligned second installment! (Though I dunno if there's any DMC2 apologists out there...)

Basically I like DS as "King's Field but with more action elements" whereas DS3 is very much the game that you'd expect to come inbetween Bloodborne and Sekiro - polished combat, challenging fights, dazzling art design...but not exactly a whole lot of meticulous dungeon crawling* or general adventuring, even if they aren't strictly linear either.

*If you say " Chalice Dungeons!" I will stab you.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


World War Mammories posted:

yharnam and ashina are both internally coherent single areas, aren't they?

actually I assumed that about ashina but now that I think about it - the drop to mibu village and stuff - I'm not so sure

illusorywall's video on the layout of dark souls 3 was fun though. the world is intentionally a bizarre, poorly-fitting mishmash, but what's there is surprisingly consistent between actual in-level placement and the corresponding far-off skyboxes

The Sekiro in game map is actually more or less accurate in portraying the relative locations of areas in the game. I donít know of a good source on how the map fits together in 3D but there are top down views out there if you look.

Hawgh
Feb 27, 2013

Size does matter, after all.

I'm about to give DS3 a solid try after not really playing it since launch, where I completed the game with a real strong dude with a real big stick.

I would like to try out some miracles (Lightning! ), but be able to get a bit of weapon variety. Could someone recommend me a sensible stat allocation to aim for? I've forgotten mostly everything about the game

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


The Protagonist posted:

I think it's worth pointing out, DS1 is literally the only fromsoft game that has that windy interconnected nature everyone loved. They haven't done it since.

I know everyone's already replying to this, but I'll throw my hat in too: the games are all interconnected/tradable in different ways. DS1's got the most unlockable shortcuts back to other areas. (In the first half, before the bonfire warping became a thing and that was no longer needed.) It kind of balances out the loss of shortcuts after Anor Londo by opening up the multiple lord soul branches and the DLCs to jump between at that point.

DS2 has a fairly straightforward starting progression where you pick a required branch and go down it until you hit the end, but you can stop and trade off to another area if you need a break or change of scenery. After you clear all the branches and get to Drangelic Castle, the main game gets more linear, but you can trade of between DLCs and the main path at that point in a similar way as before.

Bloodborne has a very, very short "main" path with lots of little branches off that you can explore and get extra rewards from completing. By the time you've wrapped up all the side paths, you can trade off progression in the DLC with the endgame areas. And then there's the chalice dungeons on top of that if you want even more game.

DS3 has a similar structure to 2, where there's multiple required branches and you can (somewhat) pick the order you go in. It does kind of hobble itself because there's some NPC sidequests that you need to progress in a specific order, and if you don't want to mess them up then you have to work through areas in a certain order a few times. I think the bigger "issue" is that the back part of the main game feels more linear because there's not as much optional content to trade off with. You can run around in Ariandel, but there's not much there. The Ringed City is scaled to be nearly the last thing you do, or even the absolute final thing after you've beaten the main story. Thematically, it makes the most sense to leave it for absolute last, too. Overall, I don't think there's less, it just feels that way because there's fewer opportunities to go do something else if you hit a wall or need a break.

Sekiro's not that far off from DS3, really. There's an area you can optionally clear early, but otherwise it has a similar feeling of shortness. I'm sure that's not helped by the lack of any kind of story-expanding DLC. I haven't gone back to it to try the boss rush modes since that free DLC came out, so I don't know if that changes anything. It does have a lot of fun little nooks and crannies to find treasures in while you're thwip-ing or swimming around, so there's not as much of a feeling of linear funnels.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Hawgh posted:

I'm about to give DS3 a solid try after not really playing it since launch, where I completed the game with a real strong dude with a real big stick.

I would like to try out some miracles (Lightning! ), but be able to get a bit of weapon variety. Could someone recommend me a sensible stat allocation to aim for? I've forgotten mostly everything about the game

Miracles complement STR & DEX builds very nicely. You'll have tons of weapon options, you can buff them with Lightning/Dark/Blessed miracles, and if you want to grind 30 Darkmoon tokens, Magic.

The stat softcaps are at 40 so typically try to park your most desirable stats there (VIG/FTH/x) and add the rest to taste, in particular Attunement based on how many spells you want to carry around. For pure builds players will push a single offensive stat to the hardcap of 60 and use an appropriately scaling weapon.

Hawgh
Feb 27, 2013

Size does matter, after all.

And Tyler Too! posted:

Miracles complement STR & DEX builds very nicely. You'll have tons of weapon options, you can buff them with Lightning/Dark/Blessed miracles, and if you want to grind 30 Darkmoon tokens, Magic.

The stat softcaps are at 40 so typically try to park your most desirable stats there (VIG/FTH/x) and add the rest to taste, in particular Attunement based on how many spells you want to carry around. For pure builds players will push a single offensive stat to the hardcap of 60 and use an appropriately scaling weapon.

Are there any stat breakpoints in particular, that I should aim at getting early in the build?

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Hawgh posted:

Are there any stat breakpoints in particular, that I should aim at getting early in the build?

27 vigor first thing so you donít instantly die whenever any combo tags you

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Hawgh posted:

Are there any stat breakpoints in particular, that I should aim at getting early in the build?

15 FTH for Tears of Denial, otherwise give yourself as much VIG as you think you'll need to survive, and then adding your favored offensive stat as needed. You can always repec your stats at the Rosaria's Fingers hangout in the Cathedral if you're unhappy with how they're distributed.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





skasion posted:

The Sekiro in game map is actually more or less accurate in portraying the relative locations of areas in the game. I donít know of a good source on how the map fits together in 3D but there are top down views out there if you look.

aha, you were right


bit of an effort to parse some of this, I should play again. if I'm reading it right the two snake eyes are basically right next to each other, which I didn't realize

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.


I've been doing a dex build and I've been having a lot of trouble compared to my str run against anything a bit heavy like say, a black knight. What's the strategy when you can't flinch enemies out of any of their attacks?

Elissimpark
May 20, 2010

The best ideas come out of stupidity.

GodFish posted:

I've been doing a dex build and I've been having a lot of trouble compared to my str run against anything a bit heavy like say, a black knight. What's the strategy when you can't flinch enemies out of any of their attacks?

Arrows and distance.

More seriously, I found that a quicker long sword-y weapon lets you rush them with a flurry of blows and often stagger them. I'm kinda fond of the broadsword, but YMMV.

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

GodFish posted:

I've been doing a dex build and I've been having a lot of trouble compared to my str run against anything a bit heavy like say, a black knight. What's the strategy when you can't flinch enemies out of any of their attacks?
dodge and strafe/outspace them and get hits in when they whiff

depending the enemy you might be doing more of the former, but just about every boss will sometimes be whiffing attacks if you strafe well.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

When I press the special key
it plays a little melody



I can't parry for poo poo in DS3, so my dex strategy was backstabs, frostbite and Astora greatsword.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


GodFish posted:

I've been doing a dex build and I've been having a lot of trouble compared to my str run against anything a bit heavy like say, a black knight. What's the strategy when you can't flinch enemies out of any of their attacks?

Parry them, or roll into their slower attacks and backstab.

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011


GodFish posted:

I've been doing a dex build and I've been having a lot of trouble compared to my str run against anything a bit heavy like say, a black knight. What's the strategy when you can't flinch enemies out of any of their attacks?

Roll out of the attack and then attack during their animation?
Incidentally, that is also the optimal tactic with heavy bonk weapons.
Or spells.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Punchman update: the demon prince was a motherfucker and a half with fist weapons, found Darkeater Midir, explored the area some more and touched some lady's egg and turned everything to ash WHOOPSIE

I also avoided ringing the bell at archdragon peak because it sounds like ringing it locks me out of some content (I'm assuming the dragon covenant)? Should I do it or nah?

After this DLC area I just have the painted world left! A buddy just informed me that there are fist weapons in Bloodborne too

https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Stake+Driver

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

timeless Ned Flanders style


Ring da fucken bell

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I have special eyes.

Just think of all the cool stuff I can see.


You want to ring the bell. I'm not 100% sure but I think all that message means is that you can get temporarily locked out of the "path of the dragon" ascent directly behind the bell until you deal with what you just unleashed, but AFAIK there's nothing permanently missable.

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009




Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Punchman update: the demon prince was a motherfucker and a half with fist weapons, found Darkeater Midir, explored the area some more and touched some lady's egg and turned everything to ash WHOOPSIE

I also avoided ringing the bell at archdragon peak because it sounds like ringing it locks me out of some content (I'm assuming the dragon covenant)? Should I do it or nah?

After this DLC area I just have the painted world left! A buddy just informed me that there are fist weapons in Bloodborne too

https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Stake+Driver

There's that as main hand and Fist of Gratia as off-hand. Also Beast Claws if you do some chalices.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

When I press the special key
it plays a little melody



Did you beat up Havel yet? If you did, go ring the bell

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Thanks for the tips! I'll go ring the bell next time, maybe if Midir feels like a bit too much or something.

e: and yeah I beat Havel to death with my fists easily. It almost felt unfair lol, the knight slayer ring + Pontiff's left eye lets me fist any knight to death without hardly breaking a sweat lol

Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 7, 2021

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



I just realized, is the Earthen Peak the same one from DS2? It's cool to see an area represented at least

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I have special eyes.

Just think of all the cool stuff I can see.


Yup. It's got a Desert Sorceress Pyromancer (and her armor set to find ) and everything!

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Son of Thunderbeast posted:

I just realized, is the Earthen Peak the same one from DS2? It's cool to see an area represented at least

Yep. Several previous Dark Souls areas are represented throughout the game.

After the Demon Prince the area that leads down into the archer gauntlet is Frampt's hangout from the OG Firelink Shrine, for example.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

...so you're saying you don't like the relic weapons?


Cleretic posted:

Okay, I'm gonna need a bit of tech support here: my game's started crashing on deaths. Not on every death, but after two or three, it conks out. Sometimes it hits the loading screen to the bonfire and crashes there, sometimes it crashes before even hitting that. It's crashed on trying to warp between bonfires once, just now (Cathedral of the Deep to Abyss Watchers, if it matters).

This only seemed to kick in as a problem after killing the Abyss Watchers a couple days ago. Mostly been an issue at play in the Cathedral of the Deep, but I have dealt with it in the Catacombs of Carthus too.

I've updated drivers; no luck. I've tinkered with settings to no success so far, but it's possible I just haven't hit the right setting. When I tried to turn it to maximum all the character models started flickering weirdly and not animating right, though, so I haven't really had the chance to mess with the high end of the options to see if it fixes anything.

No issues whatsoever with any other games.

Anyone have any ideas?

Bringing this back up, because after taking a break to go play any other games available for a couple months (I 100%ed Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity for some reason), I came back on a new character to try again.

And the game's crashing on loads anyway. Not every load like how bad it got before, but maybe every half hour or so. It can't be something in the game world or on my character, since it's a completely new character and I haven't even been online with her.

If anyone has any ideas how to fix this beyond 'reinstall' (tried that, several times), I'd appreciate it. I can't see any behavior that's causing it; I spent the entire session with Task Manager open this time, and never saw it freak out to the point where it might be shutting down for lack of RAM or anything (although I did see it go from using 2000 MB of RAM to about 900, which... seems like some kinda wrong). I really do want to give the game an actual chance, but it looks like the game doesn't want me to.

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003



Cleretic posted:

Bringing this back up, because after taking a break to go play any other games available for a couple months (I 100%ed Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity for some reason), I came back on a new character to try again.

And the game's crashing on loads anyway. Not every load like how bad it got before, but maybe every half hour or so. It can't be something in the game world or on my character, since it's a completely new character and I haven't even been online with her.

If anyone has any ideas how to fix this beyond 'reinstall' (tried that, several times), I'd appreciate it. I can't see any behavior that's causing it; I spent the entire session with Task Manager open this time, and never saw it freak out to the point where it might be shutting down for lack of RAM or anything (although I did see it go from using 2000 MB of RAM to about 900, which... seems like some kinda wrong). I really do want to give the game an actual chance, but it looks like the game doesn't want me to.

Is it possible that windows itself is the culprit? Maybe a bad patch or just a clogged up OS? Do you have any programs in the background doing monitoring? Like a temperature monitor for the graphics card or a streaming system or something of that nature?

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Like a snail that melteth away into slime, they shall be taken away; like a dead-born child, they shall not see the sun.

i just beat the game + DLCs and after having replayed the whole trilogy in the last two years I think DS3 is definitely the best one. 1 is kind of a drag to play through, 2 is okay until you get to the DLCs which are the best souls content. 3 is good all the way through, pretty much, though it never really gets above that. the DLC bosses were amazing but the actual content wasn't.

the main issue i had with the game, really, is that I've played too many dark souls games and once you have a big health pool and your weapon does a ton of damage the game isn't that hard. you can pretty much win a damage race against every boss in the game if you know when to back off and heal and can vaguely dodge at the right time. i think i killed more than half the bosses on my first try.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008



Foul Fowl posted:

the main issue i had with the game, really, is that I've played too many dark souls games and once you have a big health pool and your weapon does a ton of damage the game isn't that hard. you can pretty much win a damage race against every boss in the game if you know when to back off and heal and can vaguely dodge at the right time. i think i killed more than half the bosses on my first try.

I hope, someday, whatever comes next after elden ring, FROM or somebody else comes up with some kind of learning AI for enemies that takes into account interactions with players and uses that to get better against them. Or how about a Souls battle royale where you get a few heroes and other players control the enemies? Imagine being those Londo archers as some fools try to make it up there.

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.


codo27 posted:

I hope, someday, whatever comes next after elden ring, FROM or somebody else comes up with some kind of learning AI for enemies that takes into account interactions with players and uses that to get better against them. Or how about a Souls battle royale where you get a few heroes and other players control the enemies? Imagine being those Londo archers as some fools try to make it up there.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

...so you're saying you don't like the relic weapons?


VideoGames posted:

Is it possible that windows itself is the culprit? Maybe a bad patch or just a clogged up OS? Do you have any programs in the background doing monitoring? Like a temperature monitor for the graphics card or a streaming system or something of that nature?

Nothing as far as I'm aware, but something might've snuck in at some point, maybe? I'll reiterate that DS3 is the only game I've hit any issues at all with.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

NYO~HO


Cleretic posted:

Nothing as far as I'm aware, but something might've snuck in at some point, maybe? I'll reiterate that DS3 is the only game I've hit any issues at all with.

Nuclear option: uninstall DS3, delete your steam cloud files for it and do a completely fresh install. That worked for me when I had a corrupted file in Pillars of Eternity 2 that kept coming back from the cloud

Aidan_702
Feb 17, 2006

WADDAYA WANT FER CHRIMBO BABE ;^)


codo27 posted:

I hope, someday, whatever comes next after elden ring, FROM or somebody else comes up with some kind of learning AI for enemies that takes into account interactions with players and uses that to get better against them. Or how about a Souls battle royale where you get a few heroes and other players control the enemies? Imagine being those Londo archers as some fools try to make it up there.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





WHERE WE DROPPIN FRAMPT

giZm
Jul 7, 2003

Only the insane equates pain with success



https://twitter.com/ELDENRING/status/1403075319448363010

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Elden Ring looked extremely Dark Souls 4, which is just fine for me but will probably disappoint some.

Also a conspicuous lack of any horse combat in the various gameplay segments, they only showed a brief prerendered joust. And not a lot of horse riding in general except a couple scenic shots. It was never a big appeal to me so I don't super care either way, but I wonder if it'll be a significantly diminished mechanic compared to their initial ambitions for it.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

NYO~HO



Yes! YES

Updog Scully
Apr 20, 2021

This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.



Insurrectionist posted:

Also a conspicuous lack of any horse combat in the various gameplay segments, they only showed a brief prerendered joust. And not a lot of horse riding in general except a couple scenic shots. It was never a big appeal to me so I don't super care either way, but I wonder if it'll be a significantly diminished mechanic compared to their initial ambitions for it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always saw Elden Ring as being an open-world game, thereby necessitating the presence of the horse. I expect horse combat to be very different from on-foot combat, given the absurd difficulty of actually engaging in horse combat in Dark Souls-style combat.

The way it looked in the trailer, horse combat seems to be based on jousting. Very odd, and I am not sure if it will work out too good, but of course I will keep hopes up. Everything else looked stellar.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



I'm so excited to punch things to death in dark souls 4!!
e: I hope elden ring lets me joust with my fists

Also excited to play Bloodborne at some point when I'm done with the DS3 DLCs. Was planning on waiting for the PC port (yeah I know lol) but someone who follows my DS streams offered to send me their old PS4 which is loving awesome of them.

Still gotta play Sekiro (does that have any fist weapons?) but depending on timing I might wait to play it until after I play Elden Ring. I haven't gotten to play any of the From games when they were new and at peak multiplayer activity so I don't wanna miss that opportunity this time around

Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 10, 2021

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The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



https://twitter.com/Jyaart/status/1403082012412452865

LETS GOOOO

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