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Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Master of Orion III: ULTIMATE Edition




Chapter 08: Espionage 101




Avid readers of this LP may have noticed what was coming last update already: The Imsaies colonized a gas giant on our side of the interstellar shortcut and so finally, we establish official contact with their empire.




Someone is spreading false information about illegal dealings of our government. This harms our diplomatic relations somewhat and is a minor thing the related agent can do to a target empire.

The obvious thing to assume here would be Imsaies-spies, since it’s part of their lore and therefore probably part of their AI-behavior. On the other hand, it could be the Raas trying out espionage since they’re outclassed in every other way.




Now that official relations have been established, we can see more of Imsaies-space. As I thought, there is another growing presence in that system I didn’t want to fly into and our scout has targeting the right (as in, not claimed) one.




Back to our side again, Beta Caeli has been explored.




Beta Caeli is kind of a mixed bag. Only Yellow 2 worlds, no food production and the gravity is lower than we would like. Still, there are a lot of minerals here and food production is irrelevant to us. I’m marking both planets, since with the Imasaies and whatever else we find as neighbors in this sector, we’re running on borrowed times.

Nothing smarts more than seeing good planets snatched away after your colony ships have traveled for dozens of turns already. So let’s hope our ships can get there first.




Back home, our upgraded defense fleets is almost done and I put more colony ships and infantry into our assembly line.




Time to compare us to our two neighbors: We have 6 out of 7 controlled planets as colonies, have an average of 7 tech levels and have 31k population units. The resulting power points place us on place 4 of all 16 empires in game.




The Annalona Empire is next: They have 5 full colonies, but control 9 planets. Their research is one level behind ours, but they already have more population than we have. Their place on the Antaran Arbitrary Scale of Comparison is 6. Worse than us, but not by that much. A serious threat or a good friend. Depending on how badly we botch diplomacy.




The Raas and their weird Dila Empire have made great progress: From 1 to 4 planets, not bad! They’re still behind us in research and even in population, thanks to their bad start. The AASC places them on place 13.

The AI apparently sees expansion and exploration as far more important than warfare, at least in the early game. Good for them –and us, to be fair. We also need to expand. But rest assured, as soon as the Innar-border is secured and capable of protecting itself from counter-attack, we will abuse the Raas’ silly notion of preferring war to push them back.




The other window shows us some more data about the Annalona Empire. We learn they prefer an oligarchy to our constitutional monarchy and they allow slavery, which the Kingdom of Almandin despises. Our political relations are relaxed and the Imsaies are indifferent to us.

Since the Imsaies are among the best diplomats of the game, I assume we’ll be good friends in the future. Not because of anything we can do, of course. :v:




The Raas however, really want to be our first victims: The political relations are “Hateful” and the people of their empire “Desire War”. In the future, we have to teach them how unhealthy it is to desire war. It is our duty as civilized beings.

They also allow slavery in their empire. Which is really loving typical, first they rise up in a great slave revolt, then they turn around and catch some slaves for themselves. Hypocrites. :colbert:




With some careful optimism, I ask the Imsaies for a trade treaty with the Kingdom. I’m choosing “Debate” as level of emphasis, hoping they react better to it than the Raas reacted to total neutrality.




In shocking news, the Imsaies are so awesome at diplomacy, our starting relation is at 51. The populations of both empires see this a bit differently: A relation of 3 and 4 is basically total indifference.

Over time, our bad skills at diplomacy will lower our relations until they match our people’s feelings. But those feelings can change, for better or worse. Also every successful act of diplomacy will give us better relations and every rejections will lower them.

Let’s hope the Imasaies are good enough to offset our badness.




In turn 31, the colony ship I send out ages ago finally reaches and colonizes Innar II. A new future industrial center is born!




Another agent shows up to annoy us, this time it’s one of those who targets our civilians with bad rumors about our government. I decide it’s time to do something about this.

And again, our colony-AI fucks up and tries to send a colony ship to a planet in the same system it starts from. And ignoring all those other, better planets I marked just because they are rather far away. And ignoring the system colony I have in my assembly lines just for this planet. :mad:




To be fair to the AI, 19 turns are a lot. A lot. Still, if we don’t send ships over there, we can’t colonize the system, so I override the AI’s orders. Someone should have taught the AI about necessity.




Slowly our fleet window fills up. There are now two colony ships, two outpost-ships and our five explorers flitting around. And I remind you, this full window is still early game. Later this window will look like your worst nightmare! (Until you remember the sort-functions at the top, that is. :v: )




Finally, our first actual new and purpose-build (as in, not repurposed from industrial tools) weapon tech is ready: The Particle-Projector-Gun Research Project has started.

The PPG uses a stream of normally harmless quarks and exotic particles to overload the mater-integrity of the target. It’s like radioactive radiation on steroids. Or comic-book physics, depending on how skeptical you are. All this exotic gunk lowers shield-absorption by 10%, which makes PPGs great weapons to pierce early game shields.

They also do more damage than lasers and more effective damage than massdrivers. Massdrivers still can do more raw damage, but with all their drawbacks (need more space, worse at hitting, no shield penetration) the contest is very uneven.

PPGs will soon be replaced by another strong weapon. Said weapon will be hampered by short range though, this means the PPG will stay as a secondary weapon even after that happens.




To finish this update, let’s recruit some more spies for better spy defense. The first I’m choosing is the Intrigant/Schemer. That’s the one sabotaging our diplomacy and apparently we are unable to deal with him without having a counter-agent. (Well, we could make our people really unhappy, I guess. And hope the RNG is with us.)




Next is the Verschwörer/Conspirator. He does the same as the Schemer, just with our population instead of foreign diplomats. Fake information, riots, even rebellion against the government can be caused by the Conspirator.

That’s the other type of spy plaguing us, so I’m recruiting one of them, too.




Just to be complete, I’m recruiting the Spionage-Hacker/Espionage-Hacker. This type of spy deals with research. If a hacker is really good and really lucky, he can steal a random technology we don’t have. This is the main method of getting techs we can’t develop ourselves.

At this time, all recruitment cost are still rather cheap: 130-110 AE for these three for example. We'll have to wait some time for our new agents, though: Only one spy is trained at a time and it takes 4-5 turns for the training to finish. The last spy I’ve recruited now will only be available in 14 turns.

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fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


When you tick a planet for colonization, AI will immediately start to build a colony ship that has the specific purpose of colonizing that one planet, and only that one. It won't care that somebody already took it while the ship was being built, or you unticked the 'colonize' button afterwards or that there are juicier and closer marked planets, that ship is going to that only one planet. You have to manually intervene if you want it to go somewhere else.

At the beginning of the game, it's better to build colony ships and colonize planets manually instead of doing it this way.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Disco Infiva posted:

When you tick a planet for colonization, AI will immediately start to build a colony ship that has the specific purpose of colonizing that one planet, and only that one. It won't care that somebody already took it while the ship was being built, or you unticked the 'colonize' button afterwards or that there are juicier and closer marked planets, that ship is going to that only one planet. You have to manually intervene if you want it to go somewhere else.

At the beginning of the game, it's better to build colony ships and colonize planets manually instead of doing it this way.

Actually, you can manipulate the AI into choosing the right planet, it's just a lot of extra busy work in the early game. (Also, in Ultima Orion, the AI will automatically form colonization task forces regardless what setting you use.) Later it stops working because you need a computer brain to keep up with the game without "trusting" the bad AI. For a mere human, it's a losing proposition.

In vanilla, I actually did switch off the AI-colonization because it was terrible. This resulted in the AI flooding my reserves with unwanted colony ships and every time I made a new colonization task force, I had to wait until the start of the following turn to give them orders. That was also terrible, but in a less annoying way. Then I learned to just mark every colony-ship design as obsolete until I needed some. (The AI won't build obsolete ship designs.)

That said, in the late game we will see a lot of terrible behaviour like the ones you're talking about, because it becomes impossible to follow or even care what the AI is doing, so there'll always be some AI-colonizers hanging around somewhere, generating dumb "We can't land here!"-messages.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


Libluini posted:

Actually, you can manipulate the AI into choosing the right planet, it's just a lot of extra busy work in the early game. (Also, in Ultima Orion, the AI will automatically form colonization task forces regardless what setting you use.) Later it stops working because you need a computer brain to keep up with the game without "trusting" the bad AI. For a mere human, it's a losing proposition.

Could you show us? I'm interested to see how that AI manipulation looks like.

Libluini posted:

This resulted in the AI flooding my reserves with unwanted colony ships and every time I made a new colonization task force, I had to wait until the start of the following turn to give them orders.

After you mobilized a fleet press the 'B' button (the one that shows every empire's colors on the galactic map, I think it was 'B') and you can now give orders to your new fleet immediately. Note however that the last time I played this game was vanilla and some earlier version of Tropical mod so it could be fixed in this mod.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Disco Infiva posted:

Could you show us? I'm interested to see how that AI manipulation looks like.

There are three angles of attack to manipulate the fleet and building AI (including colonization). I'll try to remember touching all of them in one of the next updates.


quote:

After you mobilized a fleet press the 'B' button (the one that shows every empire's colors on the galactic map, I think it was 'B') and you can now give orders to your new fleet immediately. Note however that the last time I played this game was vanilla and some earlier version of Tropical mod so it could be fixed in this mod.

It is fixed, but thanks. I never knew this. Would have made playing vanilla 12 years ago a lot easier. :v:

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


Awesome, vielen Dank.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
When are we gonna stomp some lizards?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

PurpleXVI posted:

When are we gonna stomp some lizards?

I'm pushing this as fast as I can, but Master of Orion 3's early game is kind of slow and deliberate. In three updates from now I've just started building the fleet we need to invade lizard-land. :suicide:

On the other hand, all that waiting means we have tons and tons of ground units to bury them under.

At the end of my last playing session, the Raas declared war yet again. Hopefully they send some ships to us, so I can destroy their fleet far away from their planets.

KnT
Jul 12, 2010
Since I happen to have the book AI Game Programming Wisdom 2, which has the article "Performing Qualitative Terrain Analysis in Master of Orion 3", here's a simplified look into how the AI prioritizes what planets to colonize in slightly terse psuedo-C:

code:
double colonyDesirablility = 1.0;

if (coloniesAtThisStar > 0)
{
   if (enemyColoniesAtThisStar > 0)
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= 1.5; //Oh, this is a contested system?  Contest it harder!
   }
   else
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= 0.8; //We've already claimed this system.
   }
}
else if (enemyColoniesAtThisStar > 0)
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.3; //This is someone else's system.  Colonizing here would be impolite.
}
else if (areAllConnectedStarsOurs)
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.9; //Let's try to expand to new horizons, not backfill old ones.
}
else
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.5; //Then this is unclaimed frontier, which could be vulnerable to attack.
   if (numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem > 0)
   {
      //It would be really, REALLY impolite to cut our enemy's colonies off from them.  And our maps wouldn't look so pretty.
      colonyDesirablility *= pow(0.3, numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem);
   }
   else
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= (1.0 +
         (numberOfUnclaimedStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem * 0.25) +  //Stars that would be ours without burning resources to colonize them?  I'm in!
         (double)numberOfOurStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem +  //More secure systems, you say?
         (isThisStarConnectedToOurHomeStar ? 1.0 : 0.0));  //Home system.  Kinda important to defend.
   }
}
colonyDesirablility *= colonyDesirablility;  //Square it to increase the gulf between desirable and undesirable planets.
Do that for each known, uncolonized planets .
Drop the really low scorers.
Use the rest to make a weighted roulette selection, and voila! You have what each Colony Ship has for it's target on creation.

Funnily enough, they had to use a simpler "find most awesome planet we can live on" for the automatic Colonizer AI for the players, due to playtesters getting confused and frustrated when the AI would skip over juicy planets in an already colonized system for a new one in some BFN system.
Pfff! Stupid users and their "better planets, but slower early colonizing" and their not-pretty-maps! :psylon:

KnT fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Apr 23, 2016

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

KnT posted:

Since I happen to have the book AI Game Programming Wisdom 2, which has the article "Performing Qualitative Terrain Analysis in Master of Orion 3", here's a simplified look into how the AI prioritizes what planets to colonize in slightly terse psuedo-C:

code:
double colonyDesirablility = 1.0;

if (coloniesAtThisStar > 0)
{
   if (enemyColoniesAtThisStar > 0)
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= 1.5; //Oh, this is a contested system?  Contest it harder!
   }
   else
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= 0.8; //We've already claimed this system.
   }
}
else if (enemyColoniesAtThisStar > 0)
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.3; //This is someone else's system.  Colonizing here would be impolite.
}
else if (areAllConnectedStarsOurs)
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.9; //Let's try to expand to new horizons, not backfill old ones.
}
else
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.5; //Then this is unclaimed frontier, which could be vulnerable to attack.
   if (numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem > 0)
   {
      //It would be really, REALLY impolite to cut our enemy's colonies off from them.  And our maps wouldn't look so pretty.
      colonyDesirablility *= pow(0.3, numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem);
   }
   else
   {
      colonyDesirablility *= (1.0 +
         (numberOfUnclaimedStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem * 0.25) +  //Stars that would be ours without burning resources to colonize them?  I'm in!
         (double)numberOfOurStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem +  //More secure systems, you say?
         (isThisStarConnectedToOurHomeStar ? 1.0 : 0.0));  //Home system.  Kinda important to defend.
   }
}
colonyDesirablility *= colonyDesirablility;  //Square it to increase the gulf between desirable and undesirable planets.
Do that for each known, uncolonized planets .
Drop the really low scorers.
Use the rest to make a weighted roulette selection, and voila! You have what each Colony Ship has for it's target on creation.

Funnily enough, they had to use a simpler "find most awesome planet we can live on" for the automatic Colonizer AI for the players, due to playtesters getting confused and frustrated when the AI would skip over juicy planets in an already colonized system for a new one in some BFN system.
Pfff! Stupid users and their "better planets, but slower early colonizing" and their not-pretty-maps! :psylon:

Now this is interesting! It makes me think that I was wrong in believing you couldn't disable the auto-colonizer in Ultima Orion. Now it looks more like they just put another simplified system into place to automatically shove colony ships into task forces and send them to the planets pre-selected by the player.

If you're OK with it, I'll put this part into the OP. Also, I made a note to remember taking some closer looks at what the auto-colonizer is doing in Ultima Orion. (Since I normally always play with it switched off.)

KnT
Jul 12, 2010

Libluini posted:

Now this is interesting! It makes me think that I was wrong in believing you couldn't disable the auto-colonizer in Ultima Orion. Now it looks more like they just put another simplified system into place to automatically shove colony ships into task forces and send them to the planets pre-selected by the player.

If you're OK with it, I'll put this part into the OP. Also, I made a note to remember taking some closer looks at what the auto-colonizer is doing in Ultima Orion. (Since I normally always play with it switched off.)

Go right ahead. Though this is for the AI of the base game, so Ulitma Orion could have changed it. I find it interesting the description I relayed doesn't mention anything about how to quantify the "juiciness" of each planet. Likely because it was out of scope of the article - or too specific to different races to generalize.

And the optimizer in me really questions the usefulness of all of that multiplication until you get to the squaring bit, when one could just return the value from a (slightly) smaller function and just square that. Though I did optimize roughtly this:

code:
int itrStars;

for (itrStars = 0; itrStars < numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem; itrStars++)
{
   colonyDesirablility *= 0.3;
}
into this:

code:
colonyDesirablility *= pow(0.3, numberOfEnemyStarsThatWouldBeEnclosedByThisSystem);
because math.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Master of Orion III: ULTIMATE Edition




Chapter 09: Diplomacy and Even More Waiting




Slowly, but surely we’re filling out the essential early game technologies. The Hauptachsenlafette/Spinal Mount is a way to place weapons along the spine of a ship. This way you can make a weapon retardedly strong, but it also fires as slow as molasses and can only target enemies ahead.

Fun fact: At first, I didn’t know you could have more than one spinal mounted weapon. It took me until I saw an autobuild-design in Ultima Orion before it dawned on me “spinal mount” didn’t mean literally “a single weapon replacing the spine of a ship”. :shepface:




Our relations with the Imsaies are strong enough, I risk asking them for a non-aggression pact.




Shield generators are finally available! Also, in case you’re wondering, the Imsaies accepted our trade treaty earlier, but I botched the recording. Oops!




A better version of our old HMI Drive is coming: This improved version of the Hyper Magnet Impuls Drive comes with special shock absorbers to make FTL-jumps less traumatic. The less rough jumps allow also for more speed to be retained after each jump.

The Improved HMI Drive makes FTL-ships 20% faster and it’s even a bit lighter than the old drive.




Other new stuff in development or starting development soon: Matter Transformation Modules and the Security Agency. The latter helps with our economy if build in a government DEA and the first one allows +1 hull size for ships beings build if that thing is installed on a planet.

Lore wise, the MTM can synthesize complex alloys and industrial materials right there in the orbital shipyard, making the logistics of large-scale construction easier.

In a twist, we’re getting this technology before we even got the next tier of hull sizes. At least this means our construction won’t be slowed down while we upgrade our shipyards.




Now that Innar II is colonized, I’m using migration mechanics to boost the population. All other planets aren’t that bad either, so now that Innar II is established, I’m marking all of them.




Now it looks better everywhere. Innar is blocked, so the Raas can’t interfere and Kled is claimed as outpost to keep the other, friendlier AI from putting down more colonies inside our borders.

That other star lane from Innar is close to being explored, too.




Preventing aliens from putting colonies into our shipping lanes is important, otherwise you get those combat-screens every time one of your ships passes through the alien system.

Hopefully the Imsaies accept our NAP, just so I don’t trip up and accidentally bomb their planets (a thing which can actually happen).




The Dila Empire has spread to three different systems by now. One of the more frustrating things about the early game is the way you can't do anything even if you find an enemy as weak as a baby, since travel time alone means everything you could build at that time will be hopelessly outclassed by the time it reaches that enemy. Your ships armed with lasers and massdrivers will then be wiped out. (In fact, I had games were I did exactly this to overly aggressive enemies. )

Another thing, the star name in brackets happens if multiple empires share the same system. The system is colored with the dominant empire's color. In rare cases, the system turns grey when all empires in it are about equally matched.




Another upgrade is incoming now: Ion Drives are faster than our old drives by a large margin (1800 galactic meters/hour to 1500 gm/h) and take less space. Our miniaturized old drives are still smaller, though. But slower!




Our infantry gets some new toys, too: The Personendeflektorschild/Personal Deflector is a shield generator small and compact enough a soldier can carry it. Based on our EM-shield technology, this portable shield can survive 2-3 hits by a Space AK-47 before collapsing.




Said AK-47 is 5 turns from retirement, then it will be replaced by the Needler Rifle/Nadlergewehr. The Needler Rifle is a more versatile weapon, allowing for different types of ammunition: Stun, high-explosive, armor-piercing, incendiary and so on. In gameplay terms, our soldiers will lose the to-hit bonus of the Space AK-47, but gain a hefty initiative bonus our slow grunts really need.

All in all, it’s about the same, just with more impressive sounding fluff. On the other hand, higher initiative determines who can shoot first. So you could argue +10 initiative are better than just +3 to-hit. Of course, it could be we're still too slow to make a difference, in which case the initiative-bonus would be wasted. I remain skeptical. In case you’re wondering, ground units are automatically equipped with everything we research. No need to recycle our old troops.




The mobilization center allows us to raise fleet task forces and transport fleets in other systems besides our home system. This technology is more important than every FTL-technology, since ships in our reserve can magically beam into whatever system with a mobilization center built. By the time Innar II will have one of these, our preparations will be finished. This is important since Deanton is the home system of the Raas and I really don't want to fight them in a system were they can just throw everything at you as soon as it leaves the assembly lines as long as we have to travel dozens of turns to the front lines.




The ambassador of the Dila Empire is worried about us. In the very next sentence he tells us his empire has expanded their trade sanctions to a full-blown embargo.

An embargo could actually hurt us if the Raas had any sort of trade relation with the Imsaies, but they haven’t. And even if they had, we would at worst lose something like 1 AU per turn. Still negligible. I have no idea why the Raas are worried about us, though. They’re weird, I guess.




The Imsaies a lot more agreeable. We know have a non-aggression pact with the Annalona Empire! See link below for a short clip of Imsaies-talk.

Imsaies (ponders): “We have heard your proposal and we agree with the offered regulations. Anything else?”

Imsaies talking.




Our assembly lines are full with infantry units, a couple more colony ships and our newer colonies are reaching the point of having enough industry to upgrade themselves in a timely manner.




The unexplored star lane from Innar ended in a cul-de-sac. The Plastrum-system is the end of the line here. Further expansion in this sector will have to go through Raas-space.




The system has only one planet and while it is Yellow 2 and not that attractive, it has some extra space thanks to its moons. Which is good enough for me.

And better we claim it then some Raas or Imsaies sneaking through our borders. :colbert:




A growing fleet of colony ships is slowly making way into the Cokanuk-sector. Welp, our lone explorer here will be our only presence for a while yet.




Over 52 cycles have passed in the Kingdom of Almandin and about half of the technologies we’re waiting on have been finished. The system colony ship I was building earlier does its duty on Almandin I and another future mining colony is on its way.




The last couple turn before a major redesign are just the worst. At least I can use our new planetary batteries to slow down my assembly line for another turn.




The older colonies next to our capital have the same problem, but thanks to having less industrial power, a single ship in the queue slows them down enough for the rest of our missing techs to arrive.




We have 7 planets now, 4 controlled by the AI.




Modern Law Theories/Moderne Gesetzestheorien: Since laws change meaning over time, even if written with absolute grammatical purity, we need modern law theories. Those make sure to revise laws automatically to make sure the meaning is always up to date for current social, political and legal circumstances.

This tech lowers bureaucracy-costs a bit, same as the grammar modules we got earlier.




The Imsaies turn more and more into our friends: Actual relations are at an incredible 93 (for us) and even the populations of both empires are slowly warming up to each other: 23, 33 for them to us and us to them. Still indifferent, but friendly.




The political relations between us and the Annalona Empire has now reached the level of “Affectionate”/”Herzlich”. The empire itself and its people are less enthusiastic then the diplomats, but indifferent is good enough.




The war with the Raas ended thanks to no fighting whatsoever happening. Still, they hate us and wish for conflict.




Turn 36. Immigration-policies have enticed our normally rather sedentary Silicoids to move to our two new outposts and our new colony on Innar II. Innar II, while a green-level planet, gets less than half the new colonists, due to migration-mechanics working less well far away from major population-centers.




We also get our second spy! Thadius Zho, a schemer. He stands ready to defend the Kingdom of Almandin against external threats. His cloak-ability is slightly higher but still not good. His luck is about what I would call average with other races. Another spy perfect for desk duty and nothing else.




This screenshots only exists so you don’t have to look at tables and sheets all the time. Our colony ship to Cokanuk is still 8 turns away.




In research, we finally started a research project for our next hull size: The cruiser. Our category-research into Physics has already blasted past all this and has started on the (empty) level 11.




Since we’re not at war right now, I decided to annoy our neighbors a bit by pestering them for a trade treaty. There’s a high chance they say “no”, but I’m doing this mostly for fun, anyway. :v:




Our good relations to the Imsaies have opened up some more options: If you have a trade treaty with someone, you can ask several times to upgrade it. Both sides make more money from trade if you do this, so if you can you should go for it.

We can now ask for an open border trade treaty, too. What it does is (I think), it manipulates the background simulation to make inter-civilization trade easier. It also reduces the chance of spies getting caught in both directions.




Something I forgot to show: When you send a message to another empire, their icon in your message-window is shown with this neat little mail box.

By the way, you can only send one message per empire per turn. So choose wisely when deciding what to ask for.




We’re on the last stretch before my great redesign, so I’m smashing some last colony ships into my queue on Almandin V.




The curse of the early game: We have our capital and 2-3 of our oldest colonies to build important stuff and the rest of our empire is dealing with upgrading themselves up to that standard.




The enemy spy activity and the pirate events have created some rather high unrest on Seginus II. Nothing dramatic, but ignoring things isn’t how this is done, so I decide to intervene.

Either our good relations with the Imsaies, or our new counter-agents, have made the enemy spies disappear. Since I got no messages about capturing/killing them, I’m taking an educated guess they were Imsaies-spies and since we’re now friends with them, they got called back.




Now we actually have some infantry-units at rank 3 (Experienced)! I’m creating a division to protect Seginus II. It will neutralize most of the minor unrest here.




By now, Seginus II has come along far enough I take the colony of the AI-grid and do some updates to the planet’s sliders: Research is now at 8% to make good use from the research DEAs, the economic boost is still set to 10% to finish the other DEAs faster and the military queue is set to 10%.

I also make sure that right after the next shipyard-upgrade, the planet will get some defense in case of surprise attack.




Our scout exploring Imsaies-space reports Matar-B has now achieved colony status. The little ship has almost reached Mula again.


Next: Still no war, gently caress.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
One thing I remember liking, back when I played MoO3, many moons ago, were some of the diplomatic speaking animations. Furious silicoid ranting was particularly kinda cool.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

PurpleXVI posted:

One thing I remember liking, back when I played MoO3, many moons ago, were some of the diplomatic speaking animations. Furious silicoid ranting was particularly kinda cool.

This reminds me, I've added links to this thread to all relevant YouTube-videos, for more convenience.

Also, the OP is updated and there is now a link directly jumping newcomers down to the updates. I'm haphazarding a cautious guess this will be a lot nicer for readers then the old system of "gently caress, how many stupid screenshots do I have to scroll past before I get to the updates?". :v:

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I suppose you should be happy the spy-heavy race was also friendly and outgoing? They seem like bad enemies for you.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

PurpleXVI posted:

One thing I remember liking, back when I played MoO3, many moons ago, were some of the diplomatic speaking animations. Furious silicoid ranting was particularly kinda cool.

Yeah, especially encountering humans and having them jabber in a crazy language that sounded almost real.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
Libluini are you looking forward to Stellaris in a couple of weeks time? I recently found out that you can set the game to force Hyperlanes only thus turning it into a alternate-MoO simulator :D

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
Looks a lot more like a new sword of the stars to me, except not poo poo and full of stupid, badly implemented ideas.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

Slaan posted:

Looks a lot more like a new sword of the stars to me, except not poo poo and full of stupid, badly implemented ideas.

Never played that so I dono what it's like. All I know is Space-EU4 looks awesome.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Slaan posted:

Looks a lot more like a new sword of the stars to me, except not poo poo and full of stupid, badly implemented ideas.

Well, it's a Paradox game, so in part it WILL be poo poo and full of stupid, badly implemented ideas. But we can be confident that development WILL continue for the next five years or so, and that in five years most of the bad ideas will be weeded out and even better ideas will be added(if we buy the DLC, which we will, because the core game will hook us despite the flaws).

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Gridlocked posted:

Libluini are you looking forward to Stellaris in a couple of weeks time? I recently found out that you can set the game to force Hyperlanes only thus turning it into a alternate-MoO simulator :D

Well, yeah. I'm just waiting for the new month to begin so I can pre-order Stellaris. I've even started playing Space Empires V again to shorten the waiting time. (I would play Master of Orion 3 instead, but I've already amassed enough material for 6-8 more updates and it gets a bit much. :v: )

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Space history time!

Lore 03: The Exodus

It is estimated that over a hundred million people left Center One before its destruction, whether willingly or unwillingly. Those forced out by governmental relocation programs were known as the Exiles, while those who went in the evacuation ships were remembered as the traveler tribes, or just Travelers.

The journeys of the Travelers became the stuff of legends among the tribes, even as the tribulations of the Exiles became their mythologies. Not everyone who left Center One made it to safety; many colony ships were lost before ever finding safe haven, and many others started colonies that failed and faded away.

The Exiles were fortunate, in a sense. They were sent through the wormhole before its instability grew to dangerous levels, and were deposited within a concentrated area of space on the other side of the Galactic Core. Some were even lucky enough to end up in the same systems together. Regardless, they took several centuries to establish themselves on a score of neighboring systems in the galactic core, and using slower-than-light (STL) drives and some stable wormholes managed to reunite and form a clannish empire. This organization of Exiles was government at its most basic, barely a step above anarchy, for they were all criminals, dissidents, rogues, and other unwanted members of Center One's "elite" society.

But they were united by their common situation, and they were hungry for revenge against those who had cast them out. It drove them to prosper as best as possible, and from there, build up a force that would one day strike back at their oppressors. They named the central star in their empire Mizar, after a mythological God of Vengeance, and called themselves the Mizara.

The Travelers were better equipped and prepared than the Exiles, and therefore when they settled on their new homeworlds, they were able to quickly establish colonies and secure their positions. However, as many of them passed through the wormhole towards the end of its lifespan (it was destroyed when Solarus finally went nova), the random distribution pattern of the nexus scattered them much farther apart than the Mizara. Further, the majority of them ended up in one of the galaxy's spiral arms, where the lower stellar density slowed down exploration of local space. During the centuries that the Mizara were building their empire and their forces, the Travelers were ever-so-slowly developing their home systems and probing neighboring stars for signs of life.

Among the many Travelers, the two most notable examples were the scientific elitists who settled in the Orion star system, known as the Orions, and the militant isolationists who settled in the Antares star system, known as the Antarans. Both of these groups were fortunate enough to colonize extremely rich and fertile worlds that allowed them to expand and develop far more rapidly than most of the other Travelers. To the Antarans' advantage, they were closer to the Galactic Core, and thus had several star systems within close reach for expansion. To the Orions' advantage, their original population included some of the best scientists and engineers from Center One, and this gave them the technological edge over the other Travelers.

Several other Travelers also developed at an excellent pace, having chosen similarly bountiful systems in the lower galactic arm to colonize. Together the Orions, the Antarans, the Dubhei, the Shaula'a, the Bellatricians, the Meissans, the Alioth, the Mintakans, and the Saiph would shape galactic history.

CheeseThief
Dec 28, 2012

Two wholesome boys to brighten your day

So is each Master of Orion game a direct chronological sequel in the sense that every few thousand years one race/culture rises to prominence then suffers a massive fall that resets everyone to the tech level of the next game? If so that explains all the ancient tech laying around quite nicely.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

CheeseThief posted:

So is each Master of Orion game a direct chronological sequel in the sense that every few thousand years one race/culture rises to prominence then suffers a massive fall that resets everyone to the tech level of the next game? If so that explains all the ancient tech laying around quite nicely.

I think Master of Orion 2 is just a reboot of Master of Orion 1 where the developers took the neat slider management away and replaced with Civ 2 micro hell.

...well, and also added the race design menu.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


What's the prevailing opinion of the MoO reboot? I know it's paid beta right now, but one of you has to have bought in.

terrenblade
Oct 29, 2012

wiegieman posted:

What's the prevailing opinion of the MoO reboot? I know it's paid beta right now, but one of you has to have bought in.

I only played for about 30 minutes as I had to avoid one more turning my whole weekend but.
the real time combat is boring compared with moo1. Obviously did not get to the end game. The rest was ok.
Missile boats still dominate the early game.

Cathode Raymond
Dec 30, 2015

My antenna is telling me that you're probably wrong about this.
Soiled Meat

terrenblade posted:

I only played for about 30 minutes as I had to avoid one more turning my whole weekend but.
the real time combat is boring compared with moo1. Obviously did not get to the end game. The rest was ok.
Missile boats still dominate the early game.

Would I prefer it to the Battlefleet Gothic early access? Keep in mind my own personal tastes and preferences when you answer.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Cathode Raymond posted:

Would I prefer it to the Battlefleet Gothic early access? Keep in mind my own personal tastes and preferences when you answer.

BFG A) isn't early access anymore, although it'll keep getting expanded, and B) is the goddamn bomb. If you either played the tabletop game or like the look of the RTS fights, I'd recommend it with hardly any reservations.

The non-RTS end is very light, which is just fine by me, Stellaris is gonna scratch that itch.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

wiegieman posted:

What's the prevailing opinion of the MoO reboot? I know it's paid beta right now, but one of you has to have bought in.

Basically MoO2 with better graphics. Disappointing so far as I preferred the MoO1 style.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Master of Orion III: ULTIMATE Edition




Chapter 10: Cold War Dinosaur I




During galactic cycle 55, we get some more news from our neighbors. And the PPG-technology is completed. Our first real weapon tech!




:argh: 3 turns until I can start to design our warfleet. The Jäger-Fusionsbombe/Fighter-Fusionbomb which just now started its research project, is a devastating weapon, far outclassing every other weapon we could put on fighters for a some time.

Don’t worry, I really will start designing/building our new fleet in three turns! No further delays, I promise! This gives us three turns to build some of those new ships, especially the escorts I have in mind.

As soon as this fighter-tech is completed though, it’s Carrier Time. :getin:





The waiting-time in the early game is always annoying. It’s probably even worse for you sitting there, reading about how I’m not playing the game. My three main planets are building their last colony ships now. When they’re finished, I can sigh with relief and put some combat ships in there.




Imsaies: “The time has come to listen to us, Kingdom of Almandin. We can profit both, if we share the fruits of our research. We expect from you an agreement to unify our research. Do it so!”

Our answer is of course a thankful “YES!!!!!!!”, since we’re the leading power and more research helps us to gently caress the poor Raas even more over.

Like trade treaties, research treaties can be improved over time.




Our official relations are down to 67, but the people of our two empires are warming up to each other.




The Raas still hate us. Their hate has grown even stronger, in fact. There are demonstrations on the Raas-capital planet every day: The people demand war.

The ongoing belligerence of the Dila Empire is the main reason the Kingdom of Almandin, even though rather peaceful, is arming itself like mad. Soon we will retool our assembly lines from drafting soldiers to building fleets and then the Raas will regret this childish behavior.




Good news sweep the Kingdom in cycle 57! The Annalona Empire slowly becomes our beloved ally, while even the Raas are mellowing out and accept a trade treaty. A new age of peace and prosperity has come!

Fat chance, the Raas hate us more with every passing turn and if it weren’t for their bad start, they’d probably have assaulted us already.




Back in the Cokanuk-sector, our scout has surveyed one of the neighboring systems.




Only Reticuli III has any worth. I’m marking it down as future colony, just to secure one of the star lanes to the Cokanuk-system.

On marking planets for colonization: In Ultima Orion, the AI will try to colonize marked planet on its own, but there are some ways to manipulate them into making less dumb choices. One way is to mark the most important planets first and only mark the best planet inside a star system you want. This way, the AI will concentrate on planets you actually want, instead of being dumb.

The way the AI plans is simple: A completed colony ship is put into a new task force automatically aiming at the last planet you marked. This was by the way the reason why the AI suddenly send an interstellar FTL-ship to a colony in our home system: I marked Almandin I for colonization after I marked the planets on the border.

The AI would have send ship after ship to Almandin I until the planet would have turned into a new colony, then the AI would have send every new ship to the planet marked right before that one and so forth. Of course every time I mark a new planet, the AI now takes that one as the new priority. Which is sometimes what you want, but if you don’t want this, you either have to manually erase the AI-orders and send the colonizing task force to the real target, or you need to plan ahead and switch off all colony markers except the one you want most.

With no viable target except the one you left, the AI will begrudgingly form task forces to that planet. If that planet is good, one ship will be enough to found a colony, but if it is far away, the AI will still send some more ships.

But here’s the thing: If there are several nearby planets in other systems, you can save some headache by just shrugging and doing nothing. Even if you totally forgot about the 3-4 colony ships all targeting the same planet, 20 turns from now the messages about failing colonization-efforts will alert you to what happened and you will now have 3 ships in the same general sector of space. Now you can give new orders locally and all at once.

Playing around with the colonization-markers is one way of manipulating the AI into doing what you want, but there are other ways, too! The second way deals with the ship designer tool and we’re close to the great redesign. Stay tuned!





This ship was trying to get to Cokanuk. I could have said “gently caress it”, since Reticuli is right next to it and could have just re-routed the ship after it failed to colonize the (already targeted) planet in Cokanuk, but eh. I could also have just switched off all markers except the one in Reticuli after seeing this ship nearing completion.

But the horrible truth is: I am kind of lazy with all of this and switching colonization markers on- and off like mad just to make the AI do what I want is a lot of work. Generally I’ll just lazily edit AI-orders or let them fly to wherever they want and deal with the inevitable problems later.

Another (third, remember we’ll deal with the second way later) way to manipulate the colonization AI specifically has something to do with border control: The more you explore, the farther you stretch the border of what the AI considers “your” territory. But of course other empires do the same thing and will try to snatch good planets they find, like the Imsaies did with that gas giant right next to our capital system.

When I’m exploring, you’ll have noticed I’m marking every good or even mediocre planet I can see, sometimes I even mark bad planets as future outposts, just because. Since I know the AI will prioritize my newest colonization orders, I can manipulate them into sending colony ships farther and farther from our borders, to push out faster than the AI would normally. And if you run into a hostile power, you can just force your colony ships down on planets marked earlier on your way out, to create an instant puffer-zone. If you don’t encounter hostiles, you can create some sort of creeping border, with AI-send colony ships following your scouts around.

Pushing out your border is far more important than filling up all those systems this strategy leaves in your wake. Remember, every good colony can colonize the nearby bad planets far faster than your feeble efforts from the center outwards.

This is another layer of manipulation: If you have a colony inside a system with several marked planets, an AI-controlled colony will prioritized making system colonies to take those planets on their own. So it’s actually better to just let some really good planet far out on the border become the center of a new colonization effort, then wasting time on sending more than the lowest amount necessary. As a rule of thumb: 1 star system = 1 colony ship. Everything else is edge cases like you wanting to fortify a new border system as fast as possible against a threat.




OK, that was everything I remembered about this, I hope I didn’t forget anything. Well, except the design-stuff. That will come later.

On the other side of our realm, there’s Deanton. Still the heart of the Dila Empire. 5 ships are less then we have in our capital system. This is so inviting, it makes me mad that I have to wait some more turns for our scientific breakthroughs.

My eagerness will shortly come back to bite me in the rear end.




The Raas actually do agree to a trade treaty. But it is apparent the Dila Empire just tries to pretend everything’s well. They just want to continue war preparations without us noticing, but the Kingdom of Almandin isn’t led by stupid rocks, just rocks.

I mean we can go into the victory screen and it will tell us the Raas are lusting for war like some sort of deranged war-loving pervert. That screen already told us the Raas want war like said pervert wants his fetish (It’s war.). The AI slyly agreeing to a trade treaty isn’t very convincing.

Ambassador Dinosaur: “We wanted to tell you, we got your offer and agree to it. Is there something else?”




On the other side of the political spectrum, the Imsaies are almost orgasming in their happiness to improve our trade treaty. Our magic ability to look into the victory screen to see what they really think reveals they don’t really care much about us, but in the friendliest way possible.

Imsaies (peacefully): “We are incredibly happy with your proposal and we announce our agreement!”




Until now, our trade treaty with the Imsaies brought us 4 Antaran Units per galactic cycle. With an income of round 1,7k AU, that’s about a quarter of a percent. Let’s see what our new and improved trade treaty will do!




Our capital looks healthy. A new colony ship is close to completion, then another is queued up. I’ve tried to time this so we’re finishing the Matter-Transformation Module in the same turn our last critical techs are finishing their research projects. This should end with the assembly line having at least two free spaces for our planned battlefleet projects.

And yes I know I could just do whatever I want and clear two spaces when I have to, but that’s work. By now you should know I’m lazy. Better to plan ahead so the queue is empty when I need to fill it up.

Later on I’ll be getting even lazier and you will see me just straight up ignoring empty assembly lines while waiting for a major tech-breakthrough. In most other games, I’d be tempted to build old ships and then retrofit them later. In Master of Orion 3, that’s not possible and building outdated ships is just a waste of resources and time. :shrug:




It’s still some time in the future, but Seginus II will soon get a mobilization center. From that point onwards, I’ll be able to raise task forces directly here. At around the same time the planet should complete the system government center it’s been building for a couple turns. (That set of scales in the planetary assembly line.)




This screenshot was masterful. I wanted to show how far the unrest on Seginus II had dropped since creating a planetary defense division, which you can still see above. But I also wanted to show the unrest plaguing Innar II, which didn’t work because of that help-window popping up a millisecond before me pressing down on my print-key.




I also was too lazy to go back and try again, so here, have the next screenshot instead: Now our future industrial center has its first military force on it. If the Raas ever actually do invade, many will follow.




The core of our empire is this thin line between Innar, Seginus and Almandin. It’s kind of funny, but most of our planned future colonies in Plastrum and the other systems at the Imsaies-border are also in that straight line of connections. The Kingdom of Almandin is the thinnest space empire ever.




In turn 39, the Needler Rifle becomes available. The Personal Deflector will follow next turn, as will the Ion Drive. We’re so close now!




Immigration continues to work on our outposts and on Innar II. Now our outposts are slowly losing ground against Innar II, since Innar II is a great planet and our outposts are on lovely ones.




Also I see my AI is targeting Cokanuk III yet again. But eh, this time it’s not worth it to edit the orders. I just mark Cokanuk IV here as another possible colony. Anyway, the colony ship will take so long in coming here, I can still decide otherwise later.




Since I have just the one explorer in this region, I’m surveying all the star lanes near Cokanuk first before deciding in which direction to go next. The ship is now on its way to the third and last one.




Meanwhile, our research has advanced enough to unlock the research project for miniaturized sensors. While our warships will be designed earlier so I can get on with our war plans, this nice little tech is the point where I’m going to design our new scouts.




Two more important techs have started to show up: Orbitaler Werftkomplex/Orbital Yard Complex is just another upgrade to our shipyards, but Tiefenbergbau/Underground Mining does a lot more: It enables a system of extended, alveolar formations of tunnels and shafts, reaching many kilometers down below the surface of a planet. A complex structure of polymers protects the shafts from the immense pressure.




The entire thing is supervised by a computer from a central control room, since this labyrinth of shafts and tunnels is far too complex for a simple miner.

This tech allows mining DEAs to build such an Underground Mine and it makes them more effective at mining resources.




Since war time is getting closer, I’m taking the time to look at what the Raas are researching. Turns out they’re now 3-4 levels behind in Energy research. Worse then before!

The lucky bastards already have the small shield generator though: They rolled this tech a couple levels earlier. And they’re close to finally researching EM-shield technology so they can actually use their generators! By the time our fleet is ready for invasion, they’ll probably start to build ships capable of doing some damage.

Too bad we’ve leapfrogged them already. Well, at least they’ll be able to go down in some impressive displays of valor, at the least.




In the meantime, our first support-unit! I’m putting Psy-Ops in now, since in the near future our main colonies will be building ships non-stop.

Psy-Ops units are supposed to lower enemy morale. As long as no enemy command center is neutralizing your special units, an army with Psy-Ops attached will fight up to 30% more efficiently.

“Sir, the enemy constantly projects roasts and dumplings at our bunkers. They want to wear us down!” “We still have enough to eat. Is there still a slice of Major Sssdock left?”


Next: One step closer to war

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
On the bright side, MoO3 is just slow because it's slow, not because it crashes every third time you click on something and you have to do everything over again.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

PurpleXVI posted:

On the bright side, MoO3 is just slow because it's slow, not because it crashes every third time you click on something and you have to do everything over again.

I actually found newMOO to be unbearably slow and literally slower than MOO3 even without the crashes, probably because a) I deeply hated MOO2's planet management and newMOO goes all in on that, and b) the fact you can only explore a single planet per turn before researching a certain tech, even in the same system, is a really bad first impression in a game so heavily about exploration.

(edit: wait, maybe you were referring to Imperium, not newMOO, I just assumed early access = beta = you'd been having a crashy time.)

Cathode Raymond
Dec 30, 2015

My antenna is telling me that you're probably wrong about this.
Soiled Meat

Dallan Invictus posted:

I actually found newMOO to be unbearably slow and literally slower than MOO3 even without the crashes, probably because a) I deeply hated MOO2's planet management and newMOO goes all in on that, and b) the fact you can only explore a single planet per turn before researching a certain tech, even in the same system, is a really bad first impression in a game so heavily about exploration.

(edit: wait, maybe you were referring to Imperium, not newMOO, I just assumed early access = beta = you'd been having a crashy time.)

This sounds terrible.

I have a lot of false starts in 4x games especially when I'm learning them. Endless Legend, Master of Orion, Age of Wonders, all of them. I start, play a few turns, realize I want to make a different custom race or a bigger map, restart, etc.

So if they make the early game unnecessarily slow that's a deal breaker.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
To be more precise, you use slower than light travel within solar systems, which is abstracted into taking 1 turn to travel to any planet/jump hole in them. Your scout is going to spend a couple of turns within each system you explore, which is why you start with 2 scouts, a frigate, a colony ship, and the ability to build more scouts pretty drat fast.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!
There is also a tech you can research reasonably early into the game that scans the entire system when you jump in. All your scouts get upgraded with this automatically without retrofitting needed.

I have not had the game crash on me except for one and I've played both phases for about three games each. The speed for me is fine, and if you are comfortable with Endless Legend's micromanagement then the new MoO will be comfortable as well.

The real issue is the impotency of the AI. On the new hard difficulty they still don't expand that much and if you expand as fast as possible your economy will still eclipse them. I ended up fighting a war against the Sakra and the Bulrathi suddenly attacked the other side of my empire while I was cleaning up the Sakkra. They could have taken a few colonies before I crushed their fleet but just bombed my planet a bit and did nothing. By the time my fleet had got to the other side of my quarter of the galaxy I had enough command points to fight a war on three fronts (the Psilons joined in as well) and still comfortably beat all three forces.

While rapid expansion might tank your diplomacy to the point it never recovers, it doesn't matter because you will have 5-6 times their colonies anyway. Plus once you research Titans you will be destroying empires with a single fleet of two or three of them. Depending on whether you are close enough to Orion to destroy the Guardian yet. Also you can at that point eject yourself supreme space pooh-bah before you reach a science victory or have a chance to wipe everyone out.

I would like to play against another human who will be challenging. I'm not enough that good at the game. I'm very lazy in managing stuff but it doesn't matter because the AI is so easy. I'll give them more time given it's early access and AI is hard to do, but I'm not optimistic.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
I was talking about Imperium, to be specific, yes.

HiKaizer posted:

The real issue is the impotency of the AI.

Man, what is it with strategy games and having retarded/dull AI? I think the only games where the AI sometimes gets one up on me, and bears watching, is in Paradox games. Which seems largely to be because they programmed the AI to pick on weaker neighbours as opportunistically as possible and to hold grudges with serious intensity.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Master of Orion III: ULTIMATE Edition




Chapter 11: Cold War Dinosaur II




The Raas are at it again. :rolleyes: Another declaration of war.

Also, one of our spies finishes training and the techs I was waiting on are done. Time for the great fleet redesign program!




We can start! Finally, we can start! First step: All starter-designs get obsoleted. All of them. Clean slate.




The first new design is a more advanced colony ship: Ion Drives, better FTL-engine, energy shields and a single light PPG for some emergency protection.

The ship is only half as fast than the old design, but colony ships don’t need to be fast. If they get caught by enemies, being fast won’t help them. The auto-builder gave me ridiculous slow engines since technically, colony ships don’t need system drives to function. But the modders forgot when re-tooling the auto-designs the simple fact that sometimes you want to move your ship during a real-time battle.

Which they can’t if you left them with the normal space drives the auto-design will give ships like colony ships. The rest works fine, though. Using the auto-design and modifying what it gives you works well.




The second design I make is a slower-than-light version of our colony ship. Without the need for a FTL-drive, I can put two colonization modules inside. This doubles the amount of population the ship can generate. Instead of 1-4 ships depending on habitability, a colony now only needs 1-2 ships (maybe 3 on really ugly planets). This will save a lot of time later.




Just in case we want to set up some outposts, I add a design for an outpost-ship. The Discoverer is almost at maximum speed since outpost-ships will be going into hostile territory sometimes. A bit more speed seems prudent in this case.

The OS Discoverer is a destroyer-sized ship.

You may have noticed me putting acronyms before the names of my designs. The reason is, I learned by experience that I can’t and won’t remember what a design can do sooner or later. Sure, the game tells you this ship you’re seeing is a light ship and for point-defense, but the information you need is never as obvious as you want to. Also I’m bad at this, so I need all the help I can get.

In this case, “OS” simply means “Outpost-Ship”. The other abbreviations are similarly simple.





Next point in my notes says “You need space transports”. So I add this design: A light cruiser sized light transport ship. Truppenkapseln/Troop Capsules are what a ship needs to transport troops. Never put those on non-transport designs! You can only transport troops through space by forming dedicated transport task forces and those are automatically disbanded each time you drop the troops inside on a planet.

After a couple turns, the disbanded ships will show up in your reserves again so you can put more troops into them. This system of course means if you accidentally used your main battleships to transport troops, you make your main fleets disappear every time you invade a planet. So please don’t put Troop Capsules on your main combat ships.

This design is slow, but still somewhat mobile as long as an enemy doesn’t show up right next to them. It uses 3 capsules per ship, which means you can put several divisions or a small corps into one ship. By way of some wonky math you can put an entire army of 20+ units into two ships with 3 capsules even though the troop transport menu only allows you to put 6-8 units into a single ship.

I have no idea why. I am bad at math.




The next step is a fast escort to follow around some fast response combat ships I’m planning to make later. A Point Defense Frigate obviously will be slowed down if you put it next to slower main combat ships, so I always try to keep this in mind when designing PD-ships.

This design is an ultra-fast ship using maximum engine space. It has some ECM to make it harder to hit and ECCM to neutralize every enemy bringing their own e-warfare. After all that space dedicated to electronics and engines, there was only space for 3 light batteries of PPGs left.

This ship doesn’t look like much, but it’s cheap to make and can easily keep up with other light and fast warships.




The Zylo-class frigate is the exact opposite to the last design: Slow as gently caress, but twice as many weapons. This ship will protect our slower ships, like carriers and troop transports.




This design is an intermediate one, mostly. PPGs have a really high range and with spinal mounts we can get the highest possible range a weapon can have. The Long Range Ship Ruby (Light) is a light cruiser with obnoxiously long range for this time in the game. Its fire power isn’t that great, but together with it’s speed, it’ll not only be good for fighting enemy warships, but also to move in and clean up enemy transports and recon-ships.

Ships like this, with only spinal mounts, really depend on escorts if they want to survive missile- and fighter-strikes. Spinal mounts are good enough to toast everything else, though.

For this reason the auto-builder tries to fill up every combat-design with as many of them as possible. This allows the AI to get some seriously powerful ship-designs later in the game.

What I remember from vanilla MO3 is just sad. The AI was so bad at ship design you could make some really weird gimmick-fits to stump them and then just slaughter AI-fleets like there was no tomorrow.

This still happens here, but the AI at least gets a chance to fight this time around.




A long-waited upgrade for our system defense: The Light Attack Craft Gladius is a small Lancer with only two spinal-mounted PPGs. But it’s fast and has some electronic. Cheap and replaceable, but a slow enemy will learn to fear them.




The system defense forces get their very own Point Defense Corvette. Without the need for FTL-drives, the ship can easily fit one weapon-battery more than the larger Shilo-frigate I designed earlier. It also gets a sensor matrix, because why not?

Specialized support designs like this one will be the point where the second layer of AI-manipulation comes in (you were probably waiting for this): The AI uses some kind of bizarre prioritization formula to decide what an AI-controlled shipyard can and will build. This means most not directly controlled shipyards will simply ignore all your more expensive ship designs and only grab the cheaper ones. Which will be mostly your support ships. Like this one here.

Later in the game, manually going through your dozens of AI-controlled planets and changing the assembly lines will just become unfeasible. Instead, the way to control your industrial output will be to look into your reserves, decide what types of ships you want and then make sure all small ships you don’t want have their designs marked as “obsolete”. This way the AI will never build them. Since you need to update or replace your designs all the time anyway, you can easily steer your empire from behind this way.

This manipulation from behind extends to colony ships: Even if you have the AI-colonization up and running, the AI will never build obsolete colony-designs. If you don’t want the AI spamming colony ships (sometimes from some races you integrated into your empire and don’t actually want to spread) just obsolete all designs until you need them.

Another dirty trick is making your system colony ships smaller and cheaper than your FTL-designs. This way the AI will prioritize building them and filling out newly claimed systems. This will become important when you invade star systems with some free planets you want to claim, because nothing is more annoying than swarms of colony ships wandering everywhere in the middle of a war zone.

The way this works is like this: In the late game, I’ll for example look into the reserves and see AI-planets have filled it up with 44 point-defense ships and 11 scouts. But what I really need at that point is a shitload of small and fast troop transports I just designed. So I go back into the design-window and mark every design those AI-planets are building to “obsolete”. Now the AI will be forced to take the new design since there’s nothing else and the AI hates leaving a queue empty. I also can use some of the other buttons in the fleet-window to force the AI to clear all assembly lines immediately from the old designs.

Ten turns later I now have 77 of those troop transports and want to upgrade my system defenses across the empire. So I mark the troop transport as obsolete and design 1-2 new small system defense ships. Now the AI will build only those, and so on. Far easier and faster than going through all your planets one by one and looking at what they’re doing.





This was only level 1 of our mega-design extravaganza, but for now we’re going to build some of those new ships and add my other planned designs as soon as the new techs are coming in. Also, this is Khopesh. He is a conspirator. His offensive abilities are incredibly bad (dagger = 2) but his cloak-ability is at 9, which would make him almost invisible in action.

His bad luck/Glück of 25 drags everything he will do down again, though. Still, if we didn’t need him for spy defense, I’d at least think about using him offensively.




The Dila Empire has decided we’re somehow provoking them simply by existing and they want to do something about it.

Light spoiler: This war won’t suddenly fizzle out like the last one. This time the Raas aren’t just talk.




At our border everything seems still calm, but this can be misleading. There are a lot of techs to expand our view along a star lane, but we don’t have them yet so if an enemy fleet is closing in, we’re basically only get to see them about 1 turn before they drop on us. Fleets in transit are almost invisible to us for now.




The Raas are suffering from high debt, presumable because they did some build-up in preparation for war.

You can see this because the Zinssatz/interest rate is marked in red.

At this point it is time to tell you fleet strength is another misleading window. Right now it claims the enemy has 5 to our 10 ships, but it doesn’t tell us how large the enemy reserve is. Spoiler: Ships inside your reserve aren’t counted. So both the Raas and we have probably a growing reserve of warships hidden from this menu.




In contrast, the Imsaies from the Annalona Empire are relaxed and trusting. Their rock-loving attitude is heartwarming!




Turn 41 starts with our main assembly lines vomiting out the last old-style colony ships I had in construction. From now on our future war fleet will be build.




Red Alert! Another alien ship appears in the Tardig-system. Since the system technically doesn’t belong to us, we don’t get any news about the strangers. But the graphic tells us this is either a human, psilon or evon-ship.

And it comes from one of the star lanes beyond Cokanuk. Colonizing the sector is now more important then ever.




The Fusion Cannon! It is the opposite of the PPG: Short-ranged instead of long-ranged and super-high damage instead of low, but shield-piercing damage. This weapon will see a lot of use.




“This gun fires short bursts of highly catalytic deuterium. Shortly before leaving the muzzle an energy field compresses the deuterium until fusion-processes are initiated. The resulting energies wreak great devastation at the target. The fusion cannon is a pure short-range weapon, since the fusion-processes tend to abate fast outside of the initiator-field.

Still, it’s more practical than hurling fusion bombs directly at the enemy using mass drivers. Too bad we lost three test ships before we noticed this.”




Anyway, time to build ships! Our capital will start building our new Ruby-class light cruisers starting next turn. When those two are completed, the rest of our tier 1 techs should be finished for even better ships.




Our two oldest colonies will start building our fast escorts. In a couple turns, we should have our first squadron of the game: 2 light cruisers with 2 fast escort frigates.




The 6 colony ships ghosting around are now all labeled OUTDATED in bright red. But since they cease to exist after landing, we don’t have to care about them. Also, with the outpost-ship soon reaching Subra-B and the colony ship closing in on Cokanuk, we should have that border secured soon.




Our war-front with the Raas: A colony ship is on its way to that odd dead-end system on the other side of Innar. Still everything looks calm.




I somehow missed one sitrep-screen, whoops! Looks like our capital can churn out light cruisers every second turn. The now free third space in the queue gets filled with a transport ship. The first of many to carry our soldiers to Raas-planets.




Back on Innar II, the planet leaves AI-boost-town and enters direct-control-city. After the first upgrade for the local shipyards I put a mobilization center to directly beam our fleets into the system and right after that some heavy fire power with our ground batteries. At the point the batteries will be finished, they’ll work with fusion cannons. After that point, nothing the Raas can build will be able to harm the planet.




Since you didn’t get to see the situation report of this turn: Surprise! We got another try at filling spot 3 on our high council. KH-726-ZIIT is basically Robot Hitler.

He is an ultra-conservative, militaristic leader of a radical party of “Neo-Cyborgs”. On Meklon (the Meklar-home-world), he agitated against the old Meklar, who he sees as still being “fleshlings”, even though this is completely, 100% wrong for reasons explained later by me.




He thinks the original Meklar who purified their fleshy bits off are still flesh in mind or something, while only the Meklar build after the purification are real robots. He calls those later generations, especially his own, the generation of the “perfect machines”.




He has built up a large military following and uses his production techniques to build more equipment and units to help his agenda. His great flaw is underestimating the need for research.

Yep, Robot Hitler for old robot jews people. Nasty little tub of rust. He wastes money like there is no tomorrow and delays are 5% more likely to happen in our research projects, but he gives a titanic 10% bonus to our production. Since we’re at war right now, I plan on making use of him. After the Raas are finished, I plan on booting him from the council since by then we will have enough production centers online I can stop caring about the extra bonus. By then, his money-wasting, research-hating ways will be just annoying.

Also, maybe the Raas successfully assassinate Robot Hitler. Wouldn’t that be funny? :v:




Trade income has more than quadrupled. It’s still a tiny amount, but at least now our politicians can tell our people how right they were in talking with the Imsaies.




Turn 43 is there and fighter fusion bombs are completed. It’s carrier time! :getin:

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
Still a less impenetrable system than Victoria 2's markets. :v:

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer
That AI. I don't think I ever trusted it to do anything and instead just focused on a few forge worlds I could be bothered to control directly.

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Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Trusting robot hitler or the AI seems like a trap by any measure.

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