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Galaga Galaxian posted:Put in for a refund, the fact that trains want to use a specific platform even if its occupied and even if there are open platforms is just a deal breaker for me. I know you can work around it with various waypoint setups and stuff, but honestly I don't think you should have to. OTTD has been doing that kind of pathfinding for years. I just ran into this myself and am begrudgingly continuing on by using waypoints at every single loving station platform. This really is something that should have been in the first game let alone the second full iteration. And I would have quit before this for other reasons but I enabled the industry button (/res/config/base_config.lua, "game.config.industryButton = true") which extends gameplay a bit. Joda posted:Wait you can? I know you can change the path of a train with waypoints, but how can you make it use multiple platforms/paths? You can't make trains use multiple platforms as far as I know. You can only assign a specific platform.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:15
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I just want OTTD with curving tracks. OTTD+Chris Sawyer's Locomotion. Can someone just make that? 
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Nov 13, 2016 03:19
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smr posted:I'd still murder a basket of puppies for an SC4.5 that just added honest curved roads and allowed zones to snap to the road for facing. I would toss $60 at that so fast. ....add workshop support to that so that you don't have this modding hell like SC4 had, with mods and requiremnts all over the drat place behind ad.fly links and I'm sold.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:31
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Tindahbawx posted:....add workshop support to that so that you don't have this modding hell like SC4 had, with mods and requiremnts all over the drat place behind ad.fly links and I'm sold. Very good point, yes. I'll be forever grateful to the SA forums for providing megapacks for that game. I even ponied up for one of those SCDevotion CDs assuming they would put an INSTALL ALL option on the goddamned disc but newp... still had to install each fuckin' thing separately. Ugh. So much talent and stickupassiness in that one community.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:32
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Post release plans. This game will never have OTTD like signals so if that's what you need, don't buy or refund now. For me, I hate the complexity of OTTD signals so I'm keeping the game.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:34
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I don't want OTTD's stupid trunk/branches/leafs presignals (they have nice smart signals now that work very similar to the ones in TransFever, but better since they can actually let multiple trains into the same block if their paths will never cross, quite useful of complicated station exits). I was trains that can use more than one specific platform in a station.
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 01:32
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They aren't going to compete with a free game, that's the thing. So I'm not sure if what you want is going to happen. At any rate, you can take a look at their near term plans in the link.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:29
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Galaga Galaxian posted:but better since they can actually let multiple trains into the same block if their paths will never cross I think the Transport Fever's signals actually do this. Seems to be basically the only thing they do at all, though. As far as I can tell when a train is approaching a signal, it checks if it can reserve its one very particular path in the next block, if not it brakes. E: What OTTD signals do that Transport Fever signals don't do is when a train is approaching a signal in OTTD it checks for any valid path through the next block to its destination and takes it if it exists, whereas Transport Fever has no traffic redirection at all. Joda fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:36
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Lorini posted:They aren't going to compete with a free game, that's the thing. So I'm not sure if what you want is going to happen. At any rate, you can take a look at their near term plans in the link. All I want is for a train to intelligently pick any free platform at its destination station instead of sitting gumming up my network waiting for the one its line must use to free up. 
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Nov 15, 2016 04:43
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I'm interested to see how much is opened up to modding and if you can actually try to hack in some hyper sperglord realistic signaling system or if it is just reskins for trains and trucks and whatnot.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:11
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So delivering freight is kinda bullshit. It's not very profitable, the chains can be super complex and RIP if the only iron mine is on the opposite side of the map of the only smelter, and it doesn't actually do much for the city. As an experiment I tried to run freight only. I found a great city with all the stuff needed for fuel and food right near it, and set up a system to deliver all it could ever want and more to it. Internally I made a little tram system. The city barely grew at all. A brief increase in industry and commerce but it quickly stopped and stagnated, not unlike my finances for relying on freight. Finally I broke down and built a passenger line, and both towns EXPLODED with growth. I really miss cargo moving on its own at a trickle from the last game. Railroad tycoon 3 had this and it was a nice representation of private haulers and it allowed goods to distribute them selves to a small degree. Trying to just deliver fuel or food to a few cities is a pain, trying to deliver all 6 industrial products?? And for basically no reward too. Either pay a ton or stimulate the city a ton, but at the moment freight does neither. I'd kill for some light simcity in the game too, something like the a-train series where you can build apartments and shops and factories your self at a large cost and then reap the rewards. Let me build schools and parks and poo poo to make the town like me more and stimulate growth. Let me steer the growth of the city to some degree. Once again railroad tycoon had the owning of industries and town buildings and it was great.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:36
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I realized that the one thing I'm probably missing the most here is industries evolving over time. Two parts to this, first that industries should be able to open and die over course of the game. That kind of new opportunities did actually add a lot to Transport Tycoon. Second, the cargo chains may be better off changing over time too, like in Railroad Tycoon 2. Why is Plastic a product in 1850? If the initial cargo chains were simpler letting you just deliver some things straight to cities, it would be easier to get started, but then changing over time forcing you to rework your routes. One thing I very much do like about the cargo/industry model is how alternate outputs work. See the steel mill? It has two alternates, either just steel, or otherwise steel+steel+slags. This means you actually have to move the slags somewhere they can be used (construction materials) for the steel mill to be able to reach maximum efficiency. With slags taken away, you get 2 steel per ore+coal pair delivered, but if there's no slags service, you can only get 1 steel for each ore+coal delivered. That part is cool. And I'm very happy with the signals and routing. The Transport Tycoon community has fostered a very strange beauty ideal for railroads, that has little to do with reality, and I'm happy to see Urban Games go against that and force the player to handle busy areas in different ways.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:57
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There's something special about delivering refined oil and shipping out plastics via stage coach in 18-something.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:10
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Actually I wish you had to build signal houses nearby for semaphore signals to work, especially until reliable electric train detection is invented. And possibly a third track type, so you had "Early" which has no support for automatic train detection and a speed limit of 80 or 100 km/h, "Standard" which goes up to 140 km/h and can support electric color light signals, and "High speed" going up to 300 km/h but not permitting level crossings with roads. And the price difference up to high speed track should be significant. I want more engineering challenges!
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Nov 15, 2016 08:48
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nielsm posted:And I'm very happy with the signals and routing. The Transport Tycoon community has fostered a very strange beauty ideal for railroads, that has little to do with reality, and I'm happy to see Urban Games go against that and force the player to handle busy areas in different ways. I do agree with this. I like the fact you tend to build a more realistic track layout near stations. Something like this:  Instead of this:  I really hope they solve my platform complaint, cause I'll rebuy the game in a heartbeat if so. But that one problem just kills it for me, unfair as it might be.
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Nov 15, 2016 09:50
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Baronjutter posted:So delivering freight is kinda bullshit. It's not very profitable, the chains can be super complex and RIP if the only iron mine is on the opposite side of the map of the only smelter, and it doesn't actually do much for the city. As an experiment I tried to run freight only. I found a great city with all the stuff needed for fuel and food right near it, and set up a system to deliver all it could ever want and more to it. Internally I made a little tram system. The city barely grew at all. A brief increase in industry and commerce but it quickly stopped and stagnated, not unlike my finances for relying on freight. Finally I broke down and built a passenger line, and both towns EXPLODED with growth. Agreed. Not only is it not profitable and pretty much useless, it is also extremely buggy. People keep trying to tell you that you did something wrong et.c. but the plain fact is that at least the farm/food chain is broken. The farm production regularly fluctuates from ~960 down to ~240 and back up again constantly regardless of how much demand there is. I have 6 huge cities connected to a single factory and the single farm supplying it fluctuates it's production very much despite the demand being constant (or rising). It seems to stabilize a bit if you keep the camera centered over the farm but as soon as I go away and do stuff on the map and then come back the production will have plummeted.
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Nov 15, 2016 09:56
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Too many signals, too close. Place signals before switches, and generally never so a train waiting at it will cover a switch.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:50
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Not my screenshot.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:45
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nielsm posted:I realized that the one thing I'm probably missing the most here is industries evolving over time. Two parts to this, first that industries should be able to open and die over course of the game. That kind of new opportunities did actually add a lot to Transport Tycoon. I think this would be fun but it is also sort turns into a pretty different game. The Fever games are about plopping down large initial investments, designing a route, then sitting there and watching the little green numbers go up until you have enough to plop down another large investment to expand. The first half of the game is sort of like an intelligent clicker game, where the motivation really is to build to maximize the number of green numbers per game cycle, until you have so much that you sort of transition to just making everything pretty model train stuff. The timescale is really just there to avoid staring at the same stuff the whole time and to balance out growing cities with higher capacity. I don't mean any of that as a knock on the game, but I think adding strategy components would sort of fundamentally change what these games are about. Having competitors or a more realistic economic simulator sounds fun but I don't know if I would want to do it in Transport Fever.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:25
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I did a nerdy thing, I tried building a replica of Roskilde station, or at least the general track layout there. It's not a good attempt, the scale is way off, and the game doesn't support "slip-diamond" switches, as far as I can tell. (So the station as built won't actually work in the game, since lots of movements that should be possible aren't.) Full album: http://imgur.com/a/nhxHe  
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Nov 15, 2016 17:29
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I found by using waypoints you can get trains to go exactly where you want and exactly the platform you want.
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Nov 15, 2016 21:50
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What galaga, and alot of people are wanting is for the trains to smart chose the platform based on current availability/occupancy. Sadly I don't see that happening, but yes it's easy enough to set lines to platforms. I honestly don't see it as a big deal, busy stations need to be bigger stations, is all.
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Nov 15, 2016 22:04
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So has anyone cracked how town growth works? Best I can tell is there's only two modes, growing or not growing and it's entirely based on having a passenger rail connection. Numbers of passengers doesn't seem to affect anything. In fact passengers at all don't seem to be needed, just building a station and making a line, even with no train, often triggers an explosion of growth. Two towns, one with a tiny infrequent passenger train, another as the hub for multiple lines each carrying 100x what the other town sees, plus tons of freight traffic. Both will grow at the exact same rate.
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Nov 15, 2016 22:09
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I'm still getting used to how some of the changes work in this game, with the biggest change being with how freight works now that the 20 minute rule is gone. As my towns and industries get more interconnected I'd start finding random things getting delivered halfway across the map after expanding certain parts of the network and now trucks and trains will begin picking up and delivering whatever happens to be around. It's nice as now they won't be incurring more costs as they run around empty half the time but it also makes the supply and demand system even harder to anticipate. The strangest thing I've seen is from a machine parts factory that gets supplied by two different sawmills to help keep up with the demand. For whatever reason instead of delivering logs to the nearest sawmill, I find both forests (that are each new different sawmills) will instead have the logs shipped to the station that supplies the nearest sawmill, only to have the train that normally delivers planks pick up the logs that are left at the station, deliver them to the factory station, have another train that services another sawmill pick them up and deliver them halfway across the map. In the end they then get turned into planks and delivered back to the same factory. Why not just have the forest and first sawmill in the chain increase their outputs instead of shipping things all over the place? I mean in the end it really doesn't make a difference since every time cargo touches one of your vehicles they charge for it and the goods get delivered but it's just strange to have a system designed to do that. For passengers and town growth I think it matters more on the number of people who would use your connections more than just having a station and a train route - if you click each town name you'll get a window that pops up broken into 3 sections (Green, Blue and Yellow) with each section indicating how much of each good it is receiving and the overall rating. The green section at the top has a rating called 'line usage' or something similar that seems to indicate how many people use whatever routes you've created. Running more trains and having local bus routes seems to have a sufficient enough impact to get towns to grow. Having more routes and a greater variety of routes (ie. train, bus, ship, aircraft) seems to help satisfy more people's demands and also gets towns to grow faster. For shits and giggles I added a bus route between two towns already serviced by fast trains and an airline and it became incredibly popular almost instantly. Both towns also looked like the experienced a population boom and grew quickly as well. Having a town that is supplied by industrial/commercial goods connected to a town that isn't seems to help both grow faster, too. The town with no goods will instead send people to the town that is expanding, causing it to grow as well.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:46
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I remember reading that some people prefer fast and some prefer cheap. Maybe each need to be satisfied to get max growth?
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Nov 16, 2016 05:42
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Trying out a bunch of things and discovering stuff. It seems difficulty level mainly affects initial loan size, and perhaps demand in cities, not sure how to best check that. Costs of construction, vehicles etc. seem to be unchanged. Property maintenance is charged on stations, but not on track, depots or signals. (Unless those get charged based on actual usage.) It seems level crossings between road/rail are supposed to have a speed limit, but it gets ignored. Also, it's right on the loading screen as a tip: 
nielsm fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 19:06
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If you select someone wandering around and look at their details tab it will give you their preference for getting around, among a variety of other pieces of information. Not much point in going out of your way to do it though since I don't think there's one centralized place all this info is displayed for say a whole town and so long as you provide a variety of ways to get around peple will figure it out. There may be other factors at play as well (such as threshold for speed vs cost) that I don't know much about. Or what makes people determine where they want to go or how they figure put a method of getting there. I see peolle wandering around towns to get to local destinations but they don't walk between cities to get somewhere. There has to be some sort of limitation in place to prevent that. Meanwhile freight can no longer ship itself but will go clear across the map if it can.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:21
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Just gave up a large game I was having fun with because a bunch of my trains can't find a path to their destination with electricity. I've gone up and down the lines, re-drawn track, but they still say there's a gap. Don't show me where the gap is of course. Don't have an "electrify all" button or anything. Sometimes it really seems like this game actively hates you playing it.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:49
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Is there a way to ask all of your lines to replace vehicles when old? I have like 80 lines and so, so many vehicles aging.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:12
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Mandalay posted:Is there a way to ask all of your lines to replace vehicles when old? I have like 80 lines and so, so many vehicles aging. There is, but it's more clicks than manually replacing! Trains needs to be sorted into general classes and an automatic upgrade system put in place. Like "always replace with fastest loco" or "always replace with best freight hauler". In fact they need to go through the trains and better balance them for their gameplay roles rather than historical accuracy.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:39
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Has this replaced OTTD for anyone and for people who play both what would it take for it to do so? I'd like a modern version of a transport poo poo around a large map simulator but from what I've read, Urban Games just isn't up to that task.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:59
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FalloutGod posted:Has this replaced OTTD for anyone and for people who play both what would it take for it to do so? I'd like a modern version of a transport poo poo around a large map simulator but from what I've read, Urban Games just isn't up to that task.  Instead I have to demolish half a city to place truck stops so the drat goods get showed around properly, fiddle with lines in a messy and clogged list, watch ships randomly slow down and zigzag for no apparent reason, guess which way a train signal is facing until I memorize it, pay a pittance for an electrified dual highspeed railway and a fortune for an engine that goes much faster than the wagons can (that are incidentally costing more than digging a tunnel, each). In OpenTTD you can just open a menu and, for example, tell the game to start replacing every truck of a certain model with another and it will get taken care of. Here it takes more clicks to set that up for ONE freaking line. Good thing you'd never forget one of the many lines or want to replace a truck at 10% of it's lifetime to avoid causing slowdowns. 
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Nov 17, 2016 01:27
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I enjoy the game as a nice change of pace because (1) it's not like we really have a ton of options and (2) I've been playing Transport Tycoon since like 6th grade. There are definitely a ton of frustrations (well documented in this thread) with the UI. However, it is nice to see some modern graphics, and the graphical scale of cities and transport networks is very nice. Is it enough to overcome the lackluster UI and general clunkiness that seems to accompany every simulation game from the German-speaking world? Sorta yes. And I do find this game addictive (despite its flaws) that I never did for Train Fever.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:41
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I can play at 100% focus building and doing something the whole time and barely develop 3 cities and surrounding industries on a small map, I don't understand how anyone has the time or focus to do larger maps unless they just totally ignore industry or micro-managing anything.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:57
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You know how in OTTD where you have like a six-platform station for loading coal to make sure there is always a spot for a train to pull in, so as soon as one is full it just starts loading the next one? Easy to upgrade the station if you need more capacity, all the trains on a single line for simplicity and logistics, handles massive industrial capacity. Not in this game. I have to put each individual train on its own line and set explicit individual platforms to make sure they don't randomly change their minds, but then the goods don't spread evenly between lines or overflow/fill the next waiting train. That is baffling to me considering how fickle the industries are with shutting down production if there isn't a vehicle waiting to load.
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Nov 17, 2016 04:46
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FalloutGod posted:Has this replaced OTTD for anyone and for people who play both what would it take for it to do so? I'd like a modern version of a transport poo poo around a large map simulator but from what I've read, Urban Games just isn't up to that task. Yeah, I've been following the thread for the same reason but it looks like actually trying to play this will drive me insane. I still fire up OpenTTD once in a while, but it copes so poorly with high-DPI screens that it's hard to get back into, and honestly, I want something pretty. I vaguely recall hearing a recommendation for A-Train 9, but I'm not dropping $80 on a game with no demo that I have no idea if I'll actually like.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:11
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I loving loved a-train but the series has gotten more and more niche since the 90's. It's joyless and deeply unintuitive. Transport Fever has a slick accessible interface with amazing feedback compared to a-train.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:31
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Poil posted:Instead I have to demolish half a city to place truck stops so the drat goods get showed around properly You can unload goods at passenger stations, including bus stops. I don't know if it's a bug, but it's definitely useful. I'm working on a mod to change the purchase and running costs of trains up, to balance investment versus running costs, and engines versus wagons, differently. I'm not sure if it'll work out at all, but I hope to have something ready for testing this weekend. Making a mod to change engine stats (for stronger differentiation between passenger/freight locos) would probably be easier, I can look into doing that too.
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Nov 17, 2016 08:45
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Baronjutter posted:Transport Fever has a slick accessible interface with amazing feedback compared to a-train. That's pretty bad
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Nov 17, 2016 09:14
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Baronjutter posted:I can play at 100% focus building and doing something the whole time and barely develop 3 cities and surrounding industries on a small map, I don't understand how anyone has the time or focus to do larger maps unless they just totally ignore industry or micro-managing anything. I like to make huge networks with 7-10 cities, each city having 2-4 bus lines and 4-8 train lines. My biggest problem is that during the late game the game becomes pretty much unplayable slow and I have to pause the game to be able to build without extreme lag and then let the game run for a while to start generating passengers and then pause again to build et.c. It is possible to get huge cities and large passenger flows without even touching the goods part of the game, in fact it was the last thing I started to do when upgrading the passenger system became too much of a chore. Edit: Here is my save so you can see how a large passenger network can look: http://glck.net/~tjyv/perfect.7z it is 131mb. There is also 1 farm delivering to a food factory where the production bug is very obvious. Unzip the file with 7zip then put it here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\your_steam_id\446800\local\save You will probably also need this mod to be able to load it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796227914 TjyvTompa fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 09:59
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