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Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Tekne posted:

So here's this giant enemy crab.

https://twitter.com/OMEGAGORMARU/status/1072508055978418176
Man, it'd be sweet if there were more surprise kaiju in the film than just the two unknowns in the trailer.

They should slam as many monsters into this as possible, especially the smaller ones who probably wouldn't carry a main antagonist role by themselves. I want to see Varan, and not Varan in the background because his costume is too damaged like in Destroy All Monsters, but up close, filling the frame, full-tilt Varan action. Titanosaurus as well.

If they do have another monster in Kong vs. Godzilla for them to team up against, I'd be down for Hedorah, who really gave Godzilla a run for his money back in 71, and could be potentially really frightening and relevant if done well.

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Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Shiroc posted:

Is Final Wars the only main series movie that make Godzilla's presence into an entirely cuttable subplot? There is still a complete plot with just the aliens and mutants stuff. Even if you left the other monsters in for the Godzilla-less version, they can just be fought by the Gotengo.

Destroy All Monsters could function well enough. Godzilla is just one of many monsters who are mind controlled and set against the cities of earth. Godzilla takes a central focus in pretty much all scenes that he's in because he's the most famous, but you could swap him for something else like the giant condor, and the plot wouldn't need to change much.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I think Godzilla's Revenge is a good film. Even the extensive use of stock footage kind of works as it follows a young boy who daydreams about Godzilla and Minilla to escape from the doldrums of his existence, and so you could read it as the boy incorporating scenes from his favourite films into his imaginings.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I think grouping film critics as a monolith is often a mistake. Rather than go, "what do the film critics say?", I think it's far better, for me, to read (or watch) critics whose insight I find compelling, and treat it as sort of a discussion.

Rotten Tomatoes obviously encourages that monolithic view, and it can be damaging. It's best just to look for voices that you find interesting, and disagreeing with any given take from those voices can actually be beneficial as it sharpens your opinion, and causes you to analyse your thoughts and go deeper into why you like/dislike something. I feel that appealing to the authority of critics, or declaring them uniformly as bad because the reviews of a film you like were mainly negative, are both flawed positions which misunderstand the function of criticism. I also feel dismissing the general audience as opinion-less consumers is also a mistake, as people go to the cinema to have an emotional experience, and honest responses have value and should not be discounted.

As for G98, it has been a while since I've seen it, but I remember the film putting the blame for nuclear testing on France instead of America being a very cowardly choice.

Anyway! Top five G films for me!

1. Godzilla 54
2. Mothra vs Godzilla 64
3. Godzilla 84
4. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
5. Godzilla vs. Hedorah

Karloff fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 17, 2019

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

K. Waste posted:

Then again, nukes are bad.

You don't need to make America responsible for a giant monster to either critique nuclear proliferation or to even critique America's unique ideological and political crises.

G'98 implicitly critiques nuclear proliferation by depicting it being directly responsible for the manifestation of a force that threatens to destroy all humanity. That the stock footage that the film uses is all cobbled together from the testing of thermonuclear weapons carried about by Americans should also not be neglected here. Now, obviously, there are already American movies that have depicted nuclear proliferation leading to the creation of giant monsters, but the conclusion of these narratives is almost always that the conventional sources of political and military authority can deal with them.

I mean, you don’t need to. But you should. The decision to wash America’s hands, and portray them as an innocent party is akin to the same decision to remove pointed references to the nuclear attacks in G54 when it was recut into Godzilla: King of the Monsters. In the case of Godzilla: King of the Monsters, the reason for the transformation was because it was part of a political and capitalist agenda to not villianise America, similar to how the New World Picture re-edit of Godzilla 1985 specifically villianised Russia (they edited a scene where a Russian sailor bravely tries to cancel a nuclear launch so it depicted the opposite). Godzilla 1998 is a part of this legacy, this erasure of America’s dominant role in nuclear proliferation. It’s an insulting change. An American film choosing to remake a film specifically made in response to both attacks and testing committed by America, absolutely removing any mention of these crimes, and pinning the blame entirely on another country. It’s bollocks. It’s shameful. Had the filmmakers elected to pin the blame on global political situation than that would be one thing, but they don’t, they remove America’s culpability and dump it all on France and the use of American nuclear test footage actually twists the knife, because that means they are showing US nuclear tests with the French national anthem over the top!

K. Waste posted:

Following from that, G'98 depicts the U.S. military as manifestly incompetent when dealing with an asymmetrical threat, which is obviously very prescient for a number of reasons. We've already had posters note the peculiar, even dreadful cognitive dissonance when viewing all this wonton, slapstick destruction in a post-9/11 context. Moreover, the politicians of the film are depicted as fat, self-aggrandizing cowards, and our primary identification with the mainstream media is a guy who routinely sexually harasses one of his employees, and then takes credit for her own investigative journalism. And, sure, Godzilla is dispatched by the military at the end, but the resolution of the film is not that centralized, conventional authority has won. The film ends with a revelation that another Godzilla is just on the horizon, with a tracking-in shot on the egg which directly mirrors the similar one in the film's opening credits.

The irony of this is that G'98, while doing away with a lot of the superficial content of G'54 or modifying it, actually parallels that film's overarching themes. There is even the destruction of a Japanese fishing vessel to parallel the Daigo Fukuryū Maru scandal, just like in the original film.


I mean, I have a different take. The film depicts Godzilla trapped within a bridge, a man-made structure, and then absolutely destroyed by American Military might, The majority of its children are also wiped out (bar one, of course). There’s a somewhat famous quote from Shusuke Kaneko "It is interesting [that] the US version of Godzilla runs about trying to escape missiles... Americans seem unable to accept a creature that cannot be put down by their arms.", and on this I would have to agree. The military is depicted as foolish in some regards, but characters such as Hicks and O’Neill are depicted as noble and correct, especially in comparison to the politicians above them, and Godzilla is depicted consistently throughout the film as being inferior to the power of the US military.

As for the final tease, I disagree. It seems like your comparing it to the end of G54, which ends with Dr. Yamane’s solemn prediction that if humanity continues on the path it’s on, then more Godzillas will emerge, all underneath Ifukube’s haunting score. But the framing is very different in G98. In 54 the point is that the global military technological paradigm will create more existential threat, in G98 the threat already exists but not as a result of nucleur proliferation, but because the Military’s largely successful bombing campaign missed one creature. If there’s a message it’s “Next time, bomb harder” No haunting choral music though, the rousing and exciting Puff Daddy/Led Zeppelin mix instead.

So, I do disagree with the it paralleling G54’s themes, a film crafted by a pacifist, that unflinchingly displays horror and death. Emmerich’s film is about a rogue monster created by France, that needs to get shut down righteously by the US. There is a sympathy for the monster in G98, but no real question that it needs to be destroyed, or opposition, like Yamane’s pleas in G54.

K. Waste posted:

We heard this same accusation of 'cowardice' when G'14 came out. And once again we have to deal with the question of why there is such an exclusivist fetishism for superficial content, but which is not consistently applied to any other films. Like, obviously godzilla fans don't care about that entire stretch of the character's history where he was no longer strictly a manifestation of nuclear proliferation precipitated by Western imperialism, but was, in fact, a righteous superhero fighting on the behalf of not just the Japanese but all of humanity. And when other monsters did arise or were created, they were never the product of villains coded as Western. They were almost always either obscure generic fascists (the Red Bamboo Army in Ebirah) or they were an abstract foreign threat from space. The same critics who remark upon the apparent cowardice of G'98 and '14 never remark upon the queer scenario in which a character who previously served as a metaphor for nuclear proliferation suddenly becomes a useful tool for protecting the status quo.

Those critics do remark on that. I’d actually argue Godzilla’s changing nature is one of the most discussed aspects of his character. I know this especially as it was the entire crux of my dissertation way back when (it wasn’t a good dissertation, I was doing a lot of drugs at the time). Steve Ryfle and David Kalat discuss it extensively in both their books.

To go fully in depth why the heroic Godzilla isn’t criticised as harshly (though, trust me, he is very much criticised by many), would take a long time, as there are many films to go over. But in short, I’d say with the Showa films there is a decent arc, where he goes from villain in his first four films, explains his own villiany in the fifth film before undergoing a change of heart, spends a decent amount of the sixties as a reluctant anti-hero figure before Destroy All Monsters completes his arc into superhero and then spends the remainder of the showa era as said hero. It’s an odd arc which doesn’t quite work (technically Destroy All Monsters is set after all the films but none of them are exactly strict on continuity anyway), but there is a flow to his transformation from one to the other. In the original, Godzilla is a victim as well as a villain, he is tragic in his own way, the sequels just expound on this sympathy we have for him until he takes a face turn. This, I wager, could be one reason why Hero Godzilla is not disliked in the same way, because the films are crafted in a way that they don’t deny the previous Godzilla. There is no erasure, just evolution.

K. Waste posted:


This also relates to the problem of not wanting to lump people together, to want to treat everyone as an individual. Sure, there are always particular viewpoints and feelings, but clearly there are not only individuals, but rather individuals who all, in non-exclusive ways, assert values that become part of an observable ideological pattern. In the case of Godzilla fandom, this ideology is asserted through the uncritical devotion to a vague idea that Gojira is not just a monster movie but stating something important about nuclear proliferation and the role of Western imperialism in perpetuating it, but then this complete absence of a consistent critical framework when G'98 and G'14 don't exactly replicate this framework, as if this framework is the only one possible for stating something important, and as if all these other movies that they like don't also significantly deviate from and modify that framework.

Like, yes, people go to movies to have an emotional experience - but what does that mean in a material sense, when the primary means through which we get that emotional experience is heavily structured by commodity and transaction. Yes, critics may come to their own individual conclusions, but what does that mean when they stop being 'individuals,' and instead become part of a professional class that is taken as an inconsistent basis of cultural authority? We can not hide behind the ideological fantasy of individualism.

I think you are using the shadow of broad structures such as “film critics” and “fandom” to dismiss any opinions regardless of their agency. The reality of these groupings is that within themselves they rarely agree. Do you honestly think that film critics are all on some side and agree harmoniously? Have a peek at Film Twitter to see these supposedly monolithic critics at each other’s throats with disagreements. Individualism is absolutely an ideological fantasy when it comes to societal structures, but not I’m afraid, when it comes to one’s opinions on art. Although people, of course, can be influenced by others, reaction to art is often intensely personal and there’s no more potent proof of this then that you watched G98 and found it to be an interesting alternative method of critiquing nuclear proliferation, and I watched it and found it a jingoistic celebration of US military might.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Giant Condor for Godzilla vs. Kong villain.

It fits. Giant Condor was in Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster, a film that was originally intended for King Kong to star in and whose shadow is still present in the scene where Godzilla has a weird moment with a lady. So, Giant Condor is sort of an enemy to both, King Kong in spirit, and Godzilla in actuality.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I have a feeling like Ghidorah might be MVP of this, every image of him is mind-shatteringly awesome.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Disney has comical amounts of motive and a history of doing nasty underhanded poo poo. I realize you have some kind of weird mental block against the idea because you really like Marvel, but this is the company that sued a daycare for spraypainting a mural of Mickey Mouse, not a benevolent actor.

Except all the Disney review conspiracy theories are mind-shatteringly stupid and break-down with the slightest bit of scrutiny. Like all conspiracy theories. There have been plenty of big blockbusters films not made by Disney within the last year that have had great reviews (Shazam), and some made by Disney that have been kicked about by critics (Aladdin). It's all bullshit. All of it. There's no real good metric for judging critic reactions anyway, with Rotten Tomatoes being a failed attempt to do so.

Super excited to see this tomorrow, I've seen all these films multiple times. It's still surreal to me, when I was kid no one cared about Rodan or Ghidorah or what have you despite how much I talked about them (in the UK Godzilla was known but a lot less popular than he was in the states), so seeing bus shelters and giant posters with these monsters on is bizarre. But banging.

EDIT: Also, if Disney were sending passive-aggressive letters to critics they would have done it to get Aladdin good reviews (which they didn't, of if they did it didn't work because they got plenty of bad ones). It's a whole other kettle of fish to send letters saying "give Godzilla a bad write up", can you imagine if one of those letters got out? Do you know how many film journalists would love to break that story? That's a golden egg falling in their lap. All it would take is one critic to blow that whistle. But it hasn't happened. As a large company, Disney do plenty of underhanded poo poo (as do WB by the way, it's not a struggling independent studio, they own Batman and Bugs Bunny for heaven's sake), but this one strains any sense of reality. There's no conspiracy. Sorry.

Karloff fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 28, 2019

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

This film is beautiful and wonderful. It's kind of all over the shop in many different ways, but in a ramshackle and endearing fashion. There's this singular purity to it which I admire, and it's clearly imbued with a deep, unconditional love for the character and the series. It's not perfect by any means; there are elements to it, especially of its interior philosophy and how it deals with certain human characters that feels inelegant, but the visual breadth and scope of it and the way it dramatises and characterises the monsters and the world they inhabit is second to none.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

One thing that I found really cool, and I'm not sure has been posted yet (though apologies if it has) was a very specific musical callback to a bit from the Godzilla vs. Destroyah score.

When Godzilla comes back from near death you get a really sick version of the Godzilla theme, but then as he leans down to eye-up Kyle Chandler and friends the score transitions to what sounds like a piece of music from Godzilla's death and Junior's rebirth in Godzilla vs. Destroyah. This is the music from Godzilla vs. Destroyah (skip to 03:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yjOZmlbshU) and then here is the moment from the score from King of the Monsters (skip to 01:17) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6FvFfVmngs , seem like the same poo poo to me! Thought that was really cool.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

Nah Rodan is glorious technicolor. The original and Raids Again are the only b&w

Varan the Unbelievable is in black and white, but no one really cares about poor old Varan. He appears in Destroy All Monsters briefly but the suit was hosed up for whatever reason so he's shown from a distance behind some trees and again in another shot at the end in what looks like an empty suit, though I might have to double check that.

The eras of Godzilla are a little confusing as they're named after periods in Japan, but don't correspond exactly. So, the Heisei Godzilla era begins in 1984 and ends in 1995, but the historical Heisei period I gather starts in 1989 and ends this year.

Karloff fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 4, 2019

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

The worst part of the ecological message is it felt so hard to ever tell what the grounding of the movie was. Like she talked about the monsters needing to destroy to heal the environment and it sounds like just "kill all humans" type stuff but no, the monsters actually have supernatural life beams coming out of them as shown in the end credits. And like, her environmental slide show, it's hard to tell if she is talking about the real threats of environmental issues and war as they exist in our world or if she is very literally talking about a more fantastical crisis.

Like it felt sort of unclear if she actually had knowledge that a factual end of all things was happening immediately and knew the monsters were the supernatural cure, or if like, she was just thanos and then lucked out the monsters had feet that could fix coral. Like was she using monster release as just a gun to kill people with or did she actually have an actual non villainous plan (that still required sacrifice)

I think she cites a number of real world ecological issues as waking up the monsters. In those terms the metaphor is that the monsters are representative of all the real-world repercussions that climate change will bring in. The metaphor doesn't stand up to complete scrutiny with some monsters being bad, and others good, and one from space etc, but I think it ties into Yamane's speech at the end of the 54 film, where he says that "more Godzillas will come". The term "Godzillas" there is, to me, referring to any monstrous disaster whether it be giant dinosaur or freak weather event etc that threatens to hurt people.

I also think her viewpoint is dealt with sympathy, even those it's callous and stupid, with bad repercussions. She is right that humanity has brought themselves to the point of extinction and she is also right that the single most corrosive and destructive force on earth is the human race. The film does make a point of showing this. But she is wrong, and the film condemns her as such, to decide who are the ones to be punished. She's evil and selfish in the sense that she sits in a safe bunker and lets people in populated areas get wiped out all for the "greater good". Basically her findings are correct, but her decision on what to do about it is wrong.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

But she also causes the deaths of millions of people. People just like her child, a contradiction the film brings up. And without the interference of her daughter and Godzilla she would have wiped out 100% humanity and probably all life on earth, because she had the bright idea to wake up King Ghidorah without fully knowing what it was and what it could do.

Her arc in the end is about realising how badly she hosed up, and sacrificing herself to correct it.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Dammerung posted:

Why do they feel the need to show off and intimidate humans? To me, it made them look either needlessly cruel or frightened of humans. Which is an interesting direction to take the titans in, it almost reminded me of GINO.

And I would disagree about Godzilla not acting negatively - if this isn't malevolence, it's the next closest thing.


A couple of pages back but I love this scene and I don't get this vibe from it all. I read somewhere that it's Ahab and the Whale looking at each other in the eyes and coming to an understanding, and I agree. The score (a soft reprise from Godzilla vs. Destroyah) and the way G's eyes move as well as Chandler's humbled expression don't communicate Godzilla intimidating them for the hell of it to me, but a more spiritual idea of common ground being found across the most vast of divides. I love it.

Flint Ironstag posted:

Yeah, Dangerville has some fun Godzilla vids.

And thanks for reminding me of that one, I had not watched it yet.

Gotta disagree. Dangerville is terrible! The reason being for me is this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwM8NQnC48 where he inexplicably claims that Godzilla films from the fifties, sixties, and seventies were using CGI because he assumes that any post-production effect must be CGI. This is something that he could have found out with the bare minimum of research (and anyone with even the most basic understanding of film history would have known already), and on that basis, and the fact loads of comments have informed him of his massive mistake and he hasn't deleted the video out of shame, I can only assume a lot of his videos are this shoddily researched and put together.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

The whole ice island finale drags for so long. There are good moments though, and I like the perspective of it being about the working every man interacting with Godzilla when normally it's scientists/journalists/government officials and the like.

I have a Godzilla question which I'm trying to find info on, which maybe one of the learned regulars of this thread can help with? For the vast majority of the Godzilla films, there is a director (e.g Ishiro Honda) and a Special Effect Director (e.g Eiji Tsuburaya). Most of what I've read suggests that the director handles all the human stuff, and the special effects director handles the monster sequences. How big is the differential between the two? Does the director still have the the final creative authority over the monster sequences, while the special effects director is just focused on executing said directors' vision? Does the special effects director have control over camera placement and framing or are they just there to execute the effects while the director is on set actually directing the action? Or is the special effects director given largely creative control over how these sequences play out with the director mainly keeping out of it? In most of the Godzilla films, the humans don't really interact very much with the monsters, so it would be easy for there almost to be two productions going on concurrently, one which is solely the monsters and the other which is the human stuff, which can be bought together in the final edit. Basically I'm just curious about the extent of the collaboration, and how it works. Because if the director of the film is not present for the creation of the special effects sequences and it's entirely the special effects directors creative vision, then is there an argument that the special effects director should be thought of more as a co-director, as they are crafting the sequences that people know and remember the most.

I understand this might not actually have an easy answer and may depend on each individual collaboration and how it plays out. One director may be happy to let the special effects director handle those sequences entirely while another maybe more hands-on in order to maintain a consistency of vision. I'm just curious if there's any solid word on this.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Thanks both, I think at least in my head then I am going to think of the special effects directors as co-directors because the character and spirit of the monster sequences are a strong attraction to the film. That's not to discredit the work of Honda, Fukuda, and Omori et al as they're vision does direct the overall tone of the whole work for me (and the human scenes do outweigh the monster scenes at least in length). But that dichotomy between the two is interesting at least. Harryhausen is a great example, I've seen Beast of 20,000 Fathoms a couple of times in the last five years but struggle to remember anything outside of the Rhedosaurus scenes.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Mr. Funny Pants posted:

Oh boy. Not good. Can someone with a better knowledge of film history come up with some examples of movies that had to be extensively reshot/retooled and ended up being good? The best I can think of recently was Rogue One, though there is some debate about how much removed/added.

Just picked 9 year old Pants Jr. at the bus and broke the bad news to him. He scrunched up his face in disgust and said, "They better make a good movie. If they are going to make me wait this long it better be good. If it's not good I'm going to kill people."

I'm not sure of the exact timeline but they started shooting Predator with a pretty janky looking monster, and then re-shot a whole bunch with the better one that everyone is familiar with. In terms of straight up troubled productions, there's loads, including Jaws etc, but as for a complete retooling I don't know. It should be noted that we don't know exactly what is going on with GvK, we can assume the push-back is due to KOTM's response, but as for them changing it from their initial plan, it's not clear, they might just want to give audiences a bit of time so they can do a more aggressive marketing campaign as they can no longer rely on KOTM to be the thing that stokes further interest (even if I thought it was cool and good).

Got my criterion set today, and it's wonderful!

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

It's Spider-Man 3.

I like Spider-Man 3.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

As far as I can remember Godzilla is not depicted as even carnivorous, he obviously has sharp teeth and binocular vision like any carnivore but seems to have evolved/mutated beyond it. He certainly don't eat his enemies. In the 54 film, when Godzilla appears over the hill, he was originally meant to have a cow in his mouth but the effect was changed. He just wants nuclear power.

Basically, Godzilla is vegan.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I like the island films and I wouldn't mind seeing another variation on them at some point. I know they were made partially to save money on expensive city sets, but I always thought it was cool the idea that you need to be careful on some islands of the Pacific in case you run into Godzilla or some other mad poo poo like Giant Condor. They're kind of set in a period of continuity where monsters are just a threatening but present part of the natural world and just something you may have to deal with if you go sailing.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I wouldn't be surprised if they want to get it out the way of Bond and Black Widow, those films weren't originally meant to be the competition. Because a lot of production has shut down across the board, then maybe some 2021 films will get pushed forward to account for the delay. Maybe Godzilla vs. Kong will go where The Batman was initially supposed to be if that gets pushed.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

PriorMarcus posted:

Is Gorgo actually available to watch or buy anywhere? I loved it as a kid, and saw it long before I saw any Godzilla film.

I believe it is on Amazon Prime in the UK. Some Godzilla films are on there too but they're in an absolute state (cropped and stretched) and should be avoided.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I love Godzilla 84. I find its slow pace gives it this methodical nightmarish feel, helped in part by one of the most purely menacing scores of the entire series.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Aren’t the Mothra Twins semi-psychic?

Yeah, and the lady from Venus in Ghidorah.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

When the 2014 film came out a friend of mine came up to me knowing I was very fond of Godzilla and asked me what I thought. I said I liked it, but he didn't feel the same way and said it wasn't a "proper Godzilla film", I asked how so, and he said "Since when has Godzilla been able to shoot poo poo out of his mouth". To which I responded "Since forever". It was very odd, I think maybe he was confusing it with other things, or maybe getting the 98 film wrapped up in his head. The Godzilla films were less ubiquitous on UK televisions than I gather they were in America, so there's a good chance most UK viewers of the legendary Godzilla films will have never seen any of the Toho films.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I rewatched Ebirah, Horror of the Deep (1966) yesterday and I've got to say I think it's one of the most underrated entries in the Godzilla series. Almost, everything about it is awesome. I love Ishiro Honda as much as the next person, but when watching the series in order, the arrival of Jun Fukuda gives the series a bit of a shot in the arm. He brings a jazzier, looser, slightly anarchic and counter-cultural vibe that is very different from what Honda was doing. I love how the story is comparatively low stakes; no world or Japan hanging in the balance, just a fixed location and a simple clear-cut human conflict. The human characters are fun and likeable, and have a level of good natured bufoonery thst ends with them being maybe the most heroic characters across the series, electing to risk their lives to save the infant islanders from slave labour.

Godzilla's introduction in the film is one of my favourites, the characters discovering him asleep, revealed by individual shots of his plates, hands and finally whole body is a very cool moment. Them waking him up and his tearing his way out of a mountain is deeply, profoundly dope and yes, he does look a little ropey, but, it's one of Nakajima's best performances I think, he gives Godzilla a lot of irritated character in this. The scene where Godzilla is curious about Daiyo is also very interesting; I know it is a holdover from when the film was initially meant to star King Kong but, I think - and this is a bit head-canony - it can actually be read as part of Godzilla's arc into full super-hero. At this point in the series Godzilla is at a sort of anti-hero stage, he has fought against Ghidorah (twice) but is still feared and considered a threat and has a somewhat antagonistic relationship with humanity, but when he sees Daiyo it is first time he realises and considers a human as worthy of empathy. He's typically associated them with planes, tanks and nuclear weapons which hurt, but now he just sees a tiny scared figure and his reaction is of curiosity and confusion, almost like he is seeing a human for the first time as an individual fearing for their life as opposed to a swarm of pests polluting the earth. This whole philosophical process is taxing on poor Godzilla's brain so he falls asleep, but it sets the seed in him to become full blown defender of humanity in later entries.

I also love how the series now exists in a world where monsters are just a part of life. Where do Ebirah and Giant Condor come from? Doesn't matter, they're just out there in the Pacific. The implication is that all the uncharted islands in the deep ocean may be riddled with monsters, and that it's just a part of the world's ecosystem. Ebirah is a great creation, his first appearance in a storm is one of the most authentic special effects sequences from the Showa series, and the monster action hits the right level between excitement, coolness and utter lunacy. Godzilla's fight with the planes has a kinetic feel to it, one shot of a crash-zoom of a plane as it is destroyed by Godzilla's tail is incredible, and the action editing is really dynamic. I've been watching some Gamera Showa entries recently and the editing in those is so sedate making the silly action seem kind of boring, the sequences in the Godzilla by contrast are incredibly exciting to watch as they know how to keep a bubbling top level of excitement with the cutting.

Also, Giant Conder is the best, that bird tried his luck and it didn't pan out but respect fam. RIP.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I particularly love the score, especially the moment when it rises just as he is about to do it, which is oddly absent from the album version.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

The film just wants to be Jurassic Park on steroids, even down to borrowing aesthetics and twisting the narrative into pretzels to justify its own version of the Velociraptor sequence. It fails at this and it is not even attempting to be a version of Godzilla.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Gamera vs. Barugon is easily the best showa Gamera for me. It has an interesting human story, a wonderful use of colour and a sense of forward momentum that the others lack.

Still prefer Ebirah though.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Think it's a bit of a running joke. Over the course of the Showa series he gets his throat torn out, cremated, lifted hundreds of feet into the air and dropped, his eye buzzsawed out and his jaw broken. But maybe that's his appeal, he doesn't have any superpowers or rays, he's a little dopey looking with a mournful roar. But he's always up for it, doesn't back down and most importantly tries his best. We could all learn from Anguirus.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Godzilla - at least one in line with the legendary films - seems like a very expensive prospect for a TV show. Not impossible or anything, but certainly something that would probably require a Mandolorian calibre budget which seems like an odd gambit considering the under performance of the last film.

But if it happens I'm very down.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

They're doing a Batman TV show about corrupt cops to tie in with the new film which presumably will feature a very small amount of Batman, but in that case they can fall back on police procedural stuff.

You'd need a similarly good hook for a Godzilla show that keeps Godzilla appearances to a minimum. It'd be funny if they did a standard workplace sitcom for a group of people who are stationed in a research centre near a sleeping Godzilla, the joke being how mundane it is when he's just taking one of his year long naps. Highlights would be when he rolls over, or snorts in his sleep but otherwise its just normal sitcom drama with relationships, romance etc.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Watched Gamera: Guardian of the Universe for the first time in ages and it's a sick film. One thing I do miss though is the techno. The UK VHS in which I first experienced the film swapped out a lot of the score with techno for reasons that remain mysterious. Although that's not a good creative choice, it's certainly an interesting one and part of me will always find watching scenes of it not as cool without the techno.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-J8QSjHerA&t=187s

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Why are Toho so difficult? You'd think it would be easy money for them.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I'm surprised with all the vaccine news they're not just letting it wait, maybe it's just a sign of general things to come.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Gigan just feels like a real rear end in a top hat, more than any other monster. The look on his face is contemptuous, and the way he laughs and bangs his claws together makes him feel purposeful in his dickishness. Plus, he really did a number on Godzilla, opening up his shoulder and his head, and he hosed up Anguirus' eye too. It's very satisfying in Godzilla vs. Gigan when Godzilla gets a second wind and knocks the poo poo out of him. He's a villain you love to hate.

Edit: lol beaten, least it's not just me who gets that vibe from him.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Godzilla vs. Megalon certainly has its problems, but it ain't the worst. Here's a weird thing about it though for me, there's one shot in it that kind of really creeps me out and I don't really understand why. It's at about 00:17 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUv-VDKkCaI&t=15s and it's the big wide shot of Godzilla in the background moving into frame and approaching Megalon and Gigan who are in the foreground.

Something about it just trips the fear section in my brain and I don't get it. There's nothing actually frightening about it. I love Godzilla, and I've never been scared of him, even when I was little. But something about the combination of imagery and sound just does something weird to my mind. Maybe it's the way he just kind of appears out of the background, or maybe it's the uncanny way he's walking in a straight line and then takes a sudden 90 degree turn towards the camera. Maybe it's the hosed up music. But probably it's the combination of all it that hits some weird subconscious thread buried deep in my mind and makes me feel weird. There's no logical reason for it, it just snaps something odd in me.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

I found it kind of boring, but there's interesting stuff in it certainly.

Do you know what's not boring? All the impromptu crash zooms to King Ceesar statues in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974). I rewatched it the other day and I forgot how drat fun it was. King Ceesar is such an awesome monster.

Jun Fukuda ranking:

1. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla
2. Ebirah, Horror of the Deep
3. Godzilla vs. Megalon
4. Godzilla vs. Gigan
5. Son of Godzilla

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

To be fair the original King Kong vs. Godzilla is just a fun, silly time where the highlight is just seeing them go at each other. If this is the same vibe I'm still pretty into it.

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Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Word on the street is that it's Mechagodzilla in the first few seconds and it does sure look like it.

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