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Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Christ, not this shit again.

Lipstick Apathy


Hi! This is the SA Fighting Game Thread, where we post a bunch of snarky poo poo about video games that we secretly love.

Fighting games can be really intimidating to get into for new players: there's so much to know that it can be hard to figure out where to start. If you've caught some matches of Street Fighter on stream and wanted to understand it better, or mashed your way through Story Mode but don't feel like you really get FGs strategically, this OP should help you get started.


Join #fighting-games on Goonsgarden Discord to play your favorite game with goons! It's easy just do it you idiot.


So what distinguishes "Fighting Games" from other genres, and why do people nerd out so hard over them?

Basically, they’re competitive in just about the most immediate way that exists in video games. There are no teammates you can blame when you lose; no abstracting away of your mistakes (or accomplishments). If you gently caress up, you get hit. If you don’t win, it’s because someone outplayed you, and the next step is to figure out how. When you do win, it’s not because someone carried you or whatever; it’s because your poo poo worked.

Unlike beat-‘em-ups, where you cooperate with buddies to beat up mindless NPC enemies, or arena/party games, where 4+ people run around throwing items at each other or trying to knock each other off the stage, fighting games are explicitly 1-on-1 combat competitions. Consistency, dexterity, and psychology are all part of what it means to have skill in a fighting game. Beating a skilled player requires having a thorough understanding of what your character can do, and applying that against the player (not just character) you're facing. This simple dynamic is the genesis of countless emergent strategies, and the better you understand the fundamentals, the more you'll appreciate what the pros are doing in matches.

Fighting games, far more than any other genre in gaming, are driven by an extremely dedicated community of fans who take it upon themselves to ensure the longevity of their scene. The tournaments that form the backbone of the fighting game scene are run by fans, for fans. This year's annual Evolution tournament in Vegas was attended by top players from around the U.S., Japan, Korea, U.K., France, China, Mexico, and beyond; it received mainstream media coverage, drew millions of unique stream viewers, and played host to new announcements from Capcom and Namco's top producers. Evo was not created by Capcom or Namco to publicize their games; it's not run by GameStop or some "e-sports" league that intends to televise it for profit; it was organized by a small group of guys who simply love fighting games. This is a small, tightly-knit community that paradoxically spans the entire globe, and few people can really say that about their hobbies.

For some people, playing these games amounts to cracking a beer, picking the coolest-looking character, and mashing buttons as fast as possible until someone ends up winning. That’s cool, and if this is how you enjoy the game most, then more power to you! But if that's all you're interested in doing, you're probably not reading this thread, so I'm going to assume you're at least a little curious about how more advanced gameplay works. So let's talk about that...



Very loosely put, most fighting games are about two things:
  • Controlling space (i.e., limiting your opponent's options via projectiles or hand-to-hand attacks), and
  • Pressing your advantage (i.e., taking full advantage of opportunities to deal damage, and maintaining situations that create those opportunities)
The best way to get a sense for the basic concepts that drive modern fighting games is to go back to where it all started: Street Fighter II. The videos below, narrated by infamously fighting game nerd David Sirlin, are specifically about the basics of Super Street Fighter II Turbo (aka "Super Turbo"), but the fact is that they generalize extremely well to other 2D fighting games, and more abstractly to 3D fighting games as well.

Beginner Tutorial
Concepts covered: Controlling space (zoning), normals/specials/super moves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4

Intermediate Tutorial
Concepts covered: 2-in-1s, combos, cross-ups, pressing the advantage, meaties, reversals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCapuhsOMcg

Other learning resources:

Footsies Handbook - A multi-part beginner’s guide to what people mean when they say "footsies." If you're playing a game like Street Fighter and feel like you're not sure what to do during the neutral game (when both you and your opponent are standing up and moving around freely), this is a great place to start.
Shoryuken FG Term Glossary - This has a lot of niche terms and isn't super thorough in its explanations, but it is a fairly large list and it's worth checking if you hear something you don't understand.

Additional terms you'll see tossed about in fighting game discussions are listed in the Advanced Terminology section of this post.



If you’re looking to learn fighters more seriously for the first time, the most important thing is that you pick a game that you think looks cool and that you'll enjoy playing. That's going to keep you motivated to keep improving, which is ultimately better than forcing yourself to play something that doesn't really click for you.

That said, let’s talk about what the loose archetypes of fighting games are, and then what specific games are good to pick up at the moment.

Styles of Fighting Games
This is one of those things that players love to argue about, but since I’m the one writing this post, I’m gonna break it into 3 categories:
  1. Footsies-Based - Slower, more deliberately-paced 2D fighters that emphasize spacing, zoning, and good use of normals over frenzied aggression or breakneck speed. These games are more likely to have link-based combos and strong anti-air options, with neutral game centering around how you approach the opponent from the ground.
  2. Anime/Airdashers - Fast-paced, aggression-oriented 2D games that usually feature strong movement options (like air-dashes), big and obvious normals, long chain-based combos and screen-filling supers. Since you can move more freely in these games, the neutral game is less based on a patient ground approach, and is more about pressuring your opponent and setting him up to get caught in your bullshit. A lot of people call this style “anime” because there are a million anime copycat FGs like this (mostly stemming from Guilty Gear).
  3. 3D Fighters - These are kind of a category all to themselves, because that third axis of movement radically changes how 3D games feel versus any style of 2D game. Zoning with projectiles mostly isn’t a thing (you can sidestep them), so most of the interactions happen in melee range, and there’s more high/mid/low mixup emphasis than there is in a game like Street Fighter.

Current Game Recs
  • Footsies-Based: Street Fighter 5. The game has problems (to put it mildly), but you'll find a large player base because it's a Street Fighter game. That also means that you’ll find lots of guides, discussion, and help along the way. SF5 is more aggression-oriented and less about zoning than previous iterations; it’s also dumber more simplistic and easier to learn.
  • Anime: Dragon Ball FighterZ, Guilty Gear Xrd. Both are fast-paced and way fun when you stop getting your rear end kicked. DBZ has mass appeal because and simplifies some of the mechanics typical of other anime games. Guilty Gear is made by the same folks and has a very dedicated following, making it a great game to graduate to if you enjoy DBZ. It also has really solid in-game tutorials to help you learn some fighting game fundamentals.
  • 3D: Tekken. I’m biased on this one ‘cause I’m chief Tekken nerd of SA, but nothing new or interesting is really happening with the other 3D fighters, and Tekken 7 is very popular at the moment.

If you want to play with goons who can help you learn the above games, I recommend picking them up for PC and joining the goon Discord.


Let's face it: to the uninitiated, "frames" is a dirty word. It's a common misconception that people who are really into fighting games sit around all day memorizing frame data, and that this encyclopedic knowledge is somehow instantly accessible and applicable in a real match. They don't, and it's not. Okay well a lot of nerds around here do, but that doesn't mean you have to.

In truth, having a basic understanding of what people mean when they refer to various types of frames is simply useful in comprehending exactly what you're seeing in a game, and it goes a long way toward making the finer points of fighting games easier to grasp. Reading this summary will make it easier to digest some of the advanced terminology you'll see later, so before you get all huffy about not wanting to bother with that nerdy frame-counting bullshit, just relax for a minute and give it a shot.

As you probably know, any given move you're seeing on screen is comprised of multiple frames of animation. Exactly how many frames determines how fast the move is. For fighting games to function on a technical level, each move has to have some hard-coded properties for what each frame of the move represents: in the header above, if Ryu is just starting to perform a punch, should he mysteriously damage the other player if they're standing next to him? Of course not; the damage should occur when his fist is extended, and the punch (or rather, the hidden hitbox representing the punch) actually connects with the opponent on the screen. The frames of animation leading up to Ryu's fist actually hitting his opponent, then, can be thought of as startup frames; they're the frames that happen after you've pressed the punch button, but before Ryu is in a state wherein the opponent will actually be punched. The frames during which Ryu's fist is considered an active, damaging object are the active frames. And the frames after Ryu's punch is completed, during which he is recovering from his attempted attack, are recovery frames. Not so painful, is it?

So, when you see numbers representing frame data, what you're really seeing are the following:
  • Startup frames: The # of frames before an attack is considered "active."
  • Active frames: The # of frames during which an attack can actually connect with the opponent.
  • Recovery frames: The # of frames after the active frames have ended, but before you are allowed to perform any other actions (including block your opponent's incoming attack).
Based on these three properties, we can discuss a few further concepts related to frames:
  • Block stun: The frames during which your opponent is stuck in their "block" animation if they successfully block your attack.
  • Hit stun: The frames during which your opponent is stuck in their "getting hit" animation if they do not block your attack.
  • Frame advantage/disadvantage: The disparity in frames between your recovery frames and your opponent's blockstun or hitstun frames.
For example, if Ryu goes for a slow, damaging sweep, and his opponent successfully blocks it, Ryu is stuck completing his sweep animation for quite a while, whereas his opponent will recover from blocking pretty quickly. This means that his opponent has ample opportunity to counterattack, and Ryu is powerless to stop them because he's still in recovery from his sweep. Therefore, we would say that Ryu is at a pretty significant frame disadvantage on block for his sweep (otherwise referred to as being at "negative frames," "minus frames," etc). Conversely, let's say that Guile throws a slow projectile from across the stage, but follows behind it as it approaches his opponent. His opponent blocks the projectile, but while they're still in their blockstun frames, Guile gets right up next to them, able to throw out any attack he likes, such as a nice backfist or overhead attack. In this situation, Guile has frame advantage; his opponent is still recovering from blocking the projectile, while Guile has already recovered from throwing it and can throw out a follow-up attack.

Attacks that leave you with frame advantage on block/hit (or at least, a small enough disadvantage that your opponent has no guaranteed way of damaging you) are generally considered "safe." Attacks that leave you at a severe disadvantage on block/hit are considered "unsafe." This means that you shouldn't be throwing out unsafe moves unless you're sure they'll hit in your current situation, else your opponent gets a free opportunity to punish you for the mistake.

Because of the emphasized nature of blocking and punishment in 3D games, you'll often see frames discussed more heavily there than you might in Marvel or Street Fighter. In a game like Tekken, it is somewhat useful to know which of your character's moves will come out quickly enough to punish blocked moves from your opponent, and looking at punishment guides (which use frame data) is sort of a cheat sheet for seeing what those moves are. However, even in this case, learning which moves are useful for punishing mistakes is something you can absolutely learn intuitively by simply playing the game; memorizing numbers is never a necessity.



Canceling - Canceling refers to connecting one move to another in a way that reduces the recovery frames of the first move, and usually allows you to combo moves together that otherwise would not be fast enough to connect to each other. It's most often used in the context of connecting a normal to a special move, or a special move to a super move, and is done by simply inputting the next move before the current move is done being performed. The most common notation for cancels when talking about 2D fighters is "xx," so if you see a Ryu combo that reads c.MK xx hadouken xx shinkuu hadouken, you would press down + medium kick for the crouching MK, then cancel it into a fireball by performing the quarter-circle forward and punch while your kick is still going, then cancel that into his super fireball by doing the super fireball input while Ryu is doing the first fireball. If canceling didn't exist, Ryu would be sitting there recovering from his kick for way too long to throw a fireball and have it connect as part of the same combo. Canceling normals into each other is the basis for chain comboing, which is discussed below.

"Chains" vs. "Links" - A chain combo is a string of moves wherein the beginning of one move in the string cancels the recovery frames of the previous move; i.e., the moves "chain" together smoothly and are done simply by pressing one button after the other, usually with fairly even timing. Conversely, links are sequences of moves wherein each move has to completely finish its recovery animation before you can do the next move in the string. This often means that more precise timing is required, because you're left with a pretty small window during which your opponent is still "reeling" from the previous hit (i.e., they're in hitstun) while you perform the next move in the sequence. Games with a stronger emphasis on chain combos include Darkstalkers and Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Street Fighter IV more strongly emphasizes links. Tekken has a mix of each, technically speaking.

Damage/Hitstun Scaling - Because of the huge damage potential that combo systems create, many games institute a sort of proration system to put limits on what is possible through combos. Damage scaling refers to the gradual decrease in damage that your attacks do as your combo gets longer, so a hard attack done as the 5th hit of a combo does a lot less damage than it does when it's the 1st hit of the combo. Similarly, hitstun scaling is a gradual reduction in the amount of recovery time your opponent has after each hit. The latter is basically a failsafe to help prevent infinite combos from emerging, since eventually your opponent will recover so quickly from being hit that further comboing becomes impossible. There are mixed opinions about this mechanic in the fighting game community. You may also see these terms referred to as hitstun deterioration, proration, reduction, decay, etc.

Option Selects - An option select is a situation in which one input (or set of inputs) can result in multiple outputs, depending on which output is best for the situation. Example: in Street Fighter IV, throws are broken by inputting light punch (LP) and light kick (LK) at the same time when your opponent attempts to throw you. By pressing down-back + LP + LK while on defense, you create an option select: down-back blocks low, so if your opponent is in the middle of an attack (standing or low), the game engine ignores your LP and LK inputs in favor of blocking the attack. If your opponent attempts to throw you, the LP + LK input will break the throw. If your opponent does nothing, the game engine prioritizes the crouching (down-back) and LK inputs, and your character will do a c.LK, which is usually a very quick/safe move. The term is a bit obtuse, but you can see in this situation that one set of inputs results in three different "options" to select from. Usually, option selects are not the result of some intentional design decision from the developers, but rather a quirk of how are engines process and prioritize inputs.

Reads/Hard Reads - Not really just a fighting game term, but since it’s in the thread title: people refer to a “read” when someone blatantly predicts what the opponent is going to do. You wouldn’t typically throw a shoryuken out there willy-nilly, because you’re hosed if it gets blocked. But in matches, you might see someone do one from neutral that somehow hits the other guy, seemingly without explanation. The reason is that he made a hard read: “I’m in your head and I know exactly what you’re going to do in this situation, so I’m going to blow it up.” You generally don’t want to try for too many of these, because if you’re wrong, you’re screwed.

Resets - A reset is when you intentionally drop a combo to create an opportunity to start a new combo. This is done to maximize damage output by connecting 2 (or more) combos rather than just one complete combo -- i.e., it's better to do 4 hits of a 5-hit combo, reset, and get another 5-hit combo than to just land 5 hits in the first place. This is especially true of games that have severe damage scaling on longer combos, like Marvel vs. Capcom, since you're "resetting" the damage and hitstun scaling. The risk, of course, is that any time you drop a combo, you give your opponent an opportunity to block or escape further damage, so the most effective resets are those that are done unexpectedly, or in ways that are very confusing/difficult to escape.

Shimmy - This is a dumb word that was coined when Street Fighter V came out that basically just means “throw baiting.” You walk up to a dude as though you’re going to throw him, then take a tiny step back to get yourself outside of throw range. Because he thinks he’s about to be thrown, he does the input to break the throw, but now you’ve backed out of range, so he gets suckered into a whiffed throw animation and you get to punish him. It works in SF5 because the crouch tech option select (from SF4) doesn’t exist anymore, so there’s no foolproof way to break suspected throw attempts, and also because the throw range in the game is hilariously bad so you won’t get grabbed out of your shimmy.

Throw Breaks, Techs, and Softening - "Teching" a throw refers to inputting a command in anticipation of your opponent's attempt to throw you (or as part of an option select) that results in you reducing the damage taken from the throw. In some games, you can break out of a throw completely and avoid any damage from it altogether. Other games only allow you to "soften" the damage from a throw, rather than breaking it entirely. This is typically done the same way a break would be done in other games; it simply varies based on what the commands for throws are in a particular game. Throw softening also usually allows you to recover from the throw quickly, rather than suffering a full knockdown. Super Turbo and the Darkstalkers series both use throw softening rather than throw breaks.


If you have questions about other terms you've seen, or something isn't explained well enough here, feel free to ask in the thread.




Given the arcade roots of fighting games, it's no surprise that a lot of people prefer the feel of playing on arcade sticks. If you're used to the standard control pad and are thinking of moving to stick, be prepared to practice. There's definitely an adjustment period if you haven't played much on stick before, but once you're used to it, they're a lot of fun to use.

Deciding what stick is the right one for you is a function of how much you care about three things:
  • Price – Low end, "basically just a box for you to swap better parts into" sticks can be had for <$100. High-end sticks are $200+.
  • Quality/Longevity – Better sticks use parts from Sanwa or Seimitsu, which are the gold standard of Japanese arcade part producers. Lower-end sticks use cheap knockoffs or proprietary parts that may or may not be lovely.
  • Modability – If you get a cheap stick, you'll want to make sure it's one that you can easily swap standard Sanwa parts into without having to do a lot of lovely stuff like dremmeling or soldering. Even among pricier sticks, some are made to be very friendly to people who want to change their artwork, buttons, or guts (with features like solder-free quick disconnects for the buttons, or a hinged top that pops open to give access to the internals), while others aren’t.
Each of the products below has a link to Amazon, but make sure you do some homework by poking around eBay and elsewhere, particularly if you can't find them there. Now, here are some of your best bets:


Update: Time hasn't been kind to Mad Catz's current-gen sticks. Look at Qanba and Razer as better options for high-end sticks.

Best Overall

Qanba Obsidian

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: $200
Pros: Excellent all-around stick, Sanwa parts, clean design, PS4-friendly, cheaper than other top-end sticks.
Cons: "Cheaper" isn't cheap, modding isn't quite as straightforward as with other sticks.


Razer Panthera

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: $150-$200
Pros: Great stick, Sanwa parts, hinged design allows super easy access to internals for modding or repairs.
Cons: Though internals are easy to access, aesthetic mods require some effort to get their stupid decal off the top and add your own plexi.


Still Good Options

Hori Real Arcade Pro 4 Kai

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: $150
Pros: Solid midrange stick from Hori, an established name for arcade sticks. Cheaper and more readily available than Mad Catz’s high-end sticks. Parts are easy to swap.
Cons: Uses Hori proprietary parts instead of Sanwas. They’re not as terrible as most proprietary parts are, but you may end up wanting to swap them for Sanwas or Seimitsus.
Other: There’s also a Vewlix version out there, which basically means it costs twice as much but you get a loving enormous surface area that feels more like playing on an arcade cab. Doesn’t travel well, though.


Mad Catz FightStick TE2+

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: $200-$300
Pros: Mad Catz's current top-of-the-line stick. Uses full Sanwa parts, includes L3/R3 buttons and a touchpad, and the top panel has hinges so you can pop it open to dick around with the internals easily. Built-in compartment for the USB cord. The bezel and artwork are swappable so you can show off your favorite Naruto yaoi fan art.
Cons: Pricey and in short supply. You may have to hunt around a little to get one, and it won't be cheap. Over time it's become clear that these sticks are prone to PCB problems, and you're SOL if yours breaks.


Mad Catz FightStick TES+

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: $170-$250
Pros: Another high-quality stick from Mad Catz. Full Sanwa parts, L3/R3 buttons and touchpad. Built-in compartment for the USB cord. Bezel and artwork swappable.
Cons: Doesn't have the hinged panel like the TE2+. But you can still pop it open with an Allen wrench (as with most non-TE2+ sticks) and replace whatever you want.
Other: Slightly tighter form factor than the TE2+, and the color scheme is easier to work with if you're thinking of custom artwork or other mods.


Cheaper/Entry Level

Venom Arcade Stick

Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC
Price: £65
Pros: Cheap, available in Europe, Sanwa buttons swap in easily.
Cons: Harder to get elsewhere, joystick itself doesn't swap quite as easily (you'll need to either get a 5-pin harness or do some soldering), and you're probably going to want to swap parts because the stock ones are lovely knockoffs.


Stick FAQs

Q. I’m having a hard time adjusting to my stick. I’ve been thinking I should get an octagonal gate/hitbox/other gimmicky poo poo...
A. Just stop. Many people fall victim to the mentality that if they just tweaked one more thing or looked for that tiny extra edge, THEN they’d really start to rank up. The thing that will make you better is practice. Octo gates actually screw with the effective throw ranges of diagonals in dumb ways and will make it harder (not easier) to consistently execute in the long run, and Hitboxes are the stick equivalent of Dvorak keyboards (“But they’re objectively better!!!” yeah we know but you’re still that geeklord who has to bring his own keyboard everywhere and doesn’t know how to type on qwerty).

Q. Okay, so what should I change on my stick?
A. Usually the first candidates for mods (particularly if you bought a bargain stick with low-end components) are:
  • Swapping buttons and/or joystick for Sanwa or Seimitsu parts. (Seimitsus generally feel a little “beefier” to press than Sanwas and the aesthetic options are different for each).
  • Customizing the artwork and/or plexi covering. (There are a few resources, like Tek Innovations, that make it easy to get custom-printed art and a plexi cut specifically for your stick’s shape.)
  • Dual- or multi-system mods. (This involves putting a new PCB into your stick that will allow you to use it on Playstation and Xbox; some can even work with legacy systems.)
This thread is a great place to ask for more details about parts or mods you’re interested in.

Q. I just need a stick that works with my PC. Will console sticks work?
A. Generally speaking, anything that works with PS3/360 or above should also work with your PC. This means you might save some money over the PS4 sticks described above, because you can look for last-gen sticks like the Mad Catz TE, TE-S, or FightStick Pro. Note that some games (like Street Fighter V for some loving reason) don’t have DirectInput support, but you can use Joy2Key or similar lightweight programs to translate your stick inputs into something idiot games like that can understand.

Q. Do I need to learn stick to get good at fighting games?
A. No. There are a lot of pad warriors out there in tournaments, further enabled by the fact that tournaments now let people get away with in-game macro buttons (e.g. using shoulder buttons as shortcuts for hitting 3 punches or 3 kicks simultaneously). Some stuff is easier to do on stick, and some stuff isn’t, but typically people who get used to playing on stick don’t want to go back to pad. It feels good + fun to smash bigger buttons, you should try it.




#goonsgarden on SynIRC - The place to go if you're looking for a match with goons who are as bad at fighting games as you are. This is the primary hangout for SomethingAwful's fighting game illuminati.


#fighting-games on Goonsgarden Discord - Discord is a relatively new phenomenon, but many of the same people who hang out on IRC are starting to use Discord for matchmaking as well. It has a more robust Web client with no login required, and the desktop client makes it easy to voice chat, as well as to see who’s currently online and playing a game (a la Steam). Game-specific channels may pop up in each thread, which you’re welcome to join as well, but this one is the all-purpose fighting game hangout.



Fightcade is, in its own words, “an online retro arcade gaming platform for netplay.”

It uses GGPO’s rollback-based netcode to enable an unparalleled online play experience for lots of classic fighting games, from Super Turbo and the Street Fighter Alpha series to Vampire Savior, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, SNK titles, and tons of other poo poo. Folks who hang out in the goon IRC and Discord channels are almost always up for matches in one of these games, and the platform is free to use. Come hit us up for help setting it up and dive into some cool-rear end old games with us. Don’t play with abo though, that guy’s a dick.





Tekken 7 [Thread]
Injustice 2 [Thread]
Guilty Gear and other anime poo poo [Thread]
King of Fighters XIV [Thread]
Street Fighter V [Thread]


Street Fighter 5’s content
Tekken x Street Fighter (lol j/k)


Guilty Gear Xrd [Thread]
Mortal Kombat X [Thread]
Killer Instinct [Thread]
Pokkén [Thread]
Skullgirls [Thread]
Ultra Street Fighter IV [Thread]
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 [Thread]
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 [Thread]
Injustice: Gods Among Us [Thread]
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate [Thread]
Persona 4 Arena [Thread]
Street Fighter x Tekken [Thread]
King of Fighters XIII [Thread]




Streams
Twitch - Basically all streams that happen for FGC events happen on Twitch. The most popular weeklies are on Wednesday nights: Wednesday Night Fights on Level|Up Live (West Coast) and Next Level Battle Circuit on TeamSp00ky (East Coast). There are also lots of regional events and major tournaments, which are less frequent and usually happen on weekends, all leading up to the Evo championships in July.

News/Blog Sites
iPlayWinner - Various fighting game news and a few guides, forums, and glossary.
EventHubs - They occasionally get tidbits of information about upcoming games before anyone else, but also everyone who posts on it is kind of a retard.
Level|Up - The west coast's biggest stream provider.

Game-Specific Sites
Shoryuken - The biggest resource online for Capcom fighters. Plenty of terrible human beings post here, but so do plenty of top players, and there is a lot of useful information to be found.
Tekken Zaibatsu - The biggest Tekken community site online. Again, lots of awful people, but also many excellent players. If you're getting into Tekken or want to learn more about a character, start here.
Dustloop - Great resource for Guilty Gear and BlazBlue guides, for beginners to experts.
8WayRun - Community site for Soul Calibur, if you still play that for some reason.
VFDC - The aptly-titled Virtua Fighter site.
Mizuumi - Wikis and information for poverty fighting games (Arcana Heart, Melty Blood, other anime fighters).

Stick Stuff
Shoryuken: Tech Talk - This is the section of SRK's forums dedicated specifically to joysticks and controllers. There are lots of useful threads here, including guides on modding your stick, various places to purchase replacement parts, and suggestions on what sticks to get.
Focus Attack - Stick part supplier. Lots of options, competitive prices, and fast shipping. Probably the best place to start when you're looking for the basics (buttons, stick components, etc.).
Paradise Arcade Shop - A married couple based in Hawaii, these two have very quickly become a popular source for stick hardware. The husband has come up with some innovative solutions to common issues with custom sticks, and they even do cute stuff like including chocolate-covered macadamia nuts with every order for all you fat hambeast goons out there.
Art's Hobbies - Art is a member of the Shoryuken community who has built a small business for himself doing custom stick art prints and acrylic orders for people who want to modify their sticks. He is a really nice guy and he does fantastic work, so if you want to do something cool to make your joystick your own, you should check out what he can do.
Amazon - Yep, you can even get stick parts here these days.



As for this thread, try to adhere to the following friendly guidelines:



  • Questions about joysticks, parts, gamepads, and related discussion.
  • Discussion of fighting games that don't have their own dedicated threads.
  • Matchmaking, streams, cool FG videos, arcades, and general strategy discussion.
  • Questions about concepts from this post.

  • Discussion/bickering about non-fighting games such as Smash Bros., Pokémon, or Dig Dug.
  • Asking for specific advice on games that already have dedicated threads.
  • Five-paragraph theses on why Kitana's outfit is/is not offensive to womyn.

Have fun!

Brosnan fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2018 around 18:55

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Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Christ, not this shit again.

Lipstick Apathy

Using this post for goon stick galleries or some other similar nonsense.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




Fighting games are fun and cool.

Especially the best fighting game, Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R.

You should play it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K25fB0PhlN4

ACES CURE PLANES fucked around with this message at Apr 14, 2016 around 19:21

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

He's the big guy.



I SURVIVED THE AWFUL BLOCK, AGDQ 2018


Terrible thread, doesn´t give Gootecks credit for coining the Gootecks Shimmy.

Erg
Oct 31, 2010



I like the title

brian
Sep 11, 2001
I obtained this title through beard tax.



I know it's mostly for new players but the stick thing could probably do with a mention on converters for old sticks, although i'm not too up to snuff on them myself, top thread though!

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7VUjGiGoA&amp;hd=1

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

Valyrian, motherfucker! Do you speak it?!

I didn't see anything about the Lupe Daigo SFV match in the OP. This is horseshit.

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004



fighting games in general might be a hard read, but the OP is a Good Read for sure

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyo8cKGUayw&amp;hd=1

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004




ignore the op, this is all you need to know

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

He's the big guy.



I SURVIVED THE AWFUL BLOCK, AGDQ 2018


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVTdAOb54xI

This should be in page one of any FG thread.

bebaloorpabopalo
Nov 23, 2005

I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijn96k8tQZM

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44depsi7b1E&amp;hd=1

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

Bear Witness

Someone please post a tier list for Dig Dug tia

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


please note that the OP is incomplete and will be finished sometime in june when brosnan posts a youtube video. you can also unlock other posters like zand and gwyrgyn blood a later date through shitposts or zenny.

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


hey guys check out this test stream footage of my new dota channel, please click like or subscribe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

Gammatron 64
Nov 28, 2007

Die-cast construction.
It's a lost art.


That's a good OP.

This should also be on page 1 too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn8TVgtNwP0

Jmcrofts
Jan 7, 2008

just chillin' in the club

Lipstick Apathy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MHBq5Ft-Bo

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004




yah but how can anyone expect to win without knowing the micro-walk?

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Christ, not this shit again.

Lipstick Apathy

For the record, anyone new to fighting games is required to watch every goddamn video on this page.

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004



Brosnan posted:

For the record, anyone new to fighting games is required to watch every goddamn video on this page.

this is 100% true

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

Bear Witness

Brosnan posted:

For the record, anyone new to fighting games is required to watch every goddamn video on this page.

People who are not new are not exempt from this requirement

Fereydun
May 9, 2008



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3O9dDj4Ck

i cant find that one jojos match so have this instead

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

Bear Witness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO38IFrs9wU

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

Bear Witness

I’ll now tell the story of one of my own Street Fighter tournament victories. The tournament was called the East Coast Championships 4, or ECC4. I won the Street Fighter Alpha 2 portion of the ECC3 tournament, so I felt a lot of pressure to win again. I made it to the finals where I faced veteran player Thao Duong. Thao plays only one character (Chun Li), and he’s incredibly robotic, meaning he executes moves perfectly and rarely makes mistakes.

I was undefeated in the tournament so far, and Thao had one loss (it was double elimination format). This means Thao had to beat me 4 out of 7 games to be even with me, and another set of 4 out of 7 to win. I only had to win one set of 4 out of 7 to win.

I started by playing Zangief, my secret counter to Chun Li. Because it’s widely believed Chun Li totally destroys Zangief (but not mine!), it would be a flashy way to win. Whether it was my year of no practice or Thao’s playing skills or Chun Li’s dominance of the game I can’t be sure, but Zangief was not up to the task that day. No problem, since I would switch to my standard Chun Li killer: Ryu. I scraped together a win or two, but again my lack of practice was showing and Thao won by greater and greater margins. I then realized the horror of what I would have to do, and what I would become somewhat famous for in the Street Fighter community. I realized that the only remaining character I could reasonably play in a tournament was Rose, and furthermore that Rose, though very good against most characters, really only has one effective move against Chun Li: low strong.

This is where Sun Tzu comes in. My use of Rose’s low strong move is both a method of winning before fighting and of waiting. The low strong is an uninspiring little punch that doesn’t have all that much range, but it has amazing priority to beat other attacks. It’s also incredibly fast, allowing Rose to do multiple low strongs in a row with only the tiniest of gaps in between.

The low strong was my brick wall—my first test. The only problem is that there was no second test. And worse yet, there really wasn’t much “actual fighting” in store for Thao should he get past my “trick.” I could only hope that he’d fumble in trying to get around it, and even become frustrated enough to make mistakes. In retrospect, this is not the best approach to take against the robotic master of move execution himself, but it’s still preferable to no strategy at all, which was my alternative.

I low stronged my little heart out. Probably over 90% of my moves were low strong, done at a very particular range, and with a particular pattern of timing that I dare not reveal (let me keep some secrets). I had infinite patience to low strong forever, forcing Thao to defeat this trick. If he could beat it, we would then have to actually play, and at that point surely he would win. But fortunately, he never did beat it: he fought it head on. At times, he would decide not to attack, not to beat against a brick wall. I used that opportunity to get at the optimal range (which is one pixel farther from him than the range of my low strong). From this range, I continued to low strong forever. I wasn’t winning by doing that, but I wasn’t losing either. Even the robotic Thao would eventually tire and attack, sometimes at the wrong times out of annoyance or desperation. Spectators reported that I did an amazing 18 consecutive low strongs without either myself or Thao doing any other moves.

A side effect of my low strongs is that they create a “baseline expectation” of what I’m going to do. The sneaky roundhouse I do after the 17th low strong is pretty tricky, actually. I mean, wouldn’t you expect an 18th low strong after the 17th one? (Note: I was actually even more sneaky by doing the 18th low strong, then the low roundhouse.)

My story is dragging on as much as that match did. Each game is best 2 out of 3 rounds, and games tended to go the full 3 rounds. They went the full count of 4-3 when Thao won the first set, and all the way to the 14th and final game, where I won 4-3 in the second set to win the tournament. I collapsed in dehydration and drank a quart of red Fierce Berry Gatorade without pause. Even today, Fierce Berry Gatorade tastes like victory to me, but I digress.

Had I ever actually fought Thao “normally” with Rose, he would have killed me easily. Instead, in an amazingly boring and non-crowd-pleasing show, I attempted to prevent actual fighting through my “brick wall trick” of low strong. Furthermore, I bored my opponent into attacking hastily at times, and generally frustrated him, or at least think I did.

It’s interesting to note that early rounds of Street Fighter tournaments are often dominated by “tricks” like the ones I’ve described. Few players have the will to keep those brick walls up forever, though, and eventually resort to “actually playing.” Also interesting is that the last rounds of Street Fighter tournaments—especially the finals round to determine the top two players—very rarely operate anything like I’ve described. Far more often, the players good enough to get the final two are also good enough to easily avoid the kind of roadblocks I’ve been talking about, even if they have to devise countermeasures on the spot. The usual case at such high levels of play is “actual fighting” right off the bat, the very thing I try to put off as long as possible in a tournament match. So it seems that (my own exploits excepted!) tricks will only get you so far. Above a certain level of play, you must actively try to win the game, not just wait for the opponent to hand it to you. To the benefit of the spectators, when the best face the best, there are more often two bloody, clashing swords than a sheathed one.

Thwack!
Aug 14, 2010

Ability: Shadow Tag


Play KOF98/02UM

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

Bear Witness

AnonSpore posted:

I’ll now tell the story of one of my own Street Fighter tournament victories. The tournament was called the East Coast Championships 4, or ECC4. I won the Street Fighter Alpha 2 portion of the ECC3 tournament, so I felt a lot of pressure to win again. I made it to the finals where I faced veteran player Thao Duong. Thao plays only one character (Chun Li), and he’s incredibly robotic, meaning he executes moves perfectly and rarely makes mistakes.

I was undefeated in the tournament so far, and Thao had one loss (it was double elimination format). This means Thao had to beat me 4 out of 7 games to be even with me, and another set of 4 out of 7 to win. I only had to win one set of 4 out of 7 to win.

I started by playing Zangief, my secret counter to Chun Li. Because it’s widely believed Chun Li totally destroys Zangief (but not mine!), it would be a flashy way to win. Whether it was my year of no practice or Thao’s playing skills or Chun Li’s dominance of the game I can’t be sure, but Zangief was not up to the task that day. No problem, since I would switch to my standard Chun Li killer: Ryu. I scraped together a win or two, but again my lack of practice was showing and Thao won by greater and greater margins. I then realized the horror of what I would have to do, and what I would become somewhat famous for in the Street Fighter community. I realized that the only remaining character I could reasonably play in a tournament was Rose, and furthermore that Rose, though very good against most characters, really only has one effective move against Chun Li: low strong.

This is where Sun Tzu comes in. My use of Rose’s low strong move is both a method of winning before fighting and of waiting. The low strong is an uninspiring little punch that doesn’t have all that much range, but it has amazing priority to beat other attacks. It’s also incredibly fast, allowing Rose to do multiple low strongs in a row with only the tiniest of gaps in between.

The low strong was my brick wall—my first test. The only problem is that there was no second test. And worse yet, there really wasn’t much “actual fighting” in store for Thao should he get past my “trick.” I could only hope that he’d fumble in trying to get around it, and even become frustrated enough to make mistakes. In retrospect, this is not the best approach to take against the robotic master of move execution himself, but it’s still preferable to no strategy at all, which was my alternative.

I low stronged my little heart out. Probably over 90% of my moves were low strong, done at a very particular range, and with a particular pattern of timing that I dare not reveal (let me keep some secrets). I had infinite patience to low strong forever, forcing Thao to defeat this trick. If he could beat it, we would then have to actually play, and at that point surely he would win. But fortunately, he never did beat it: he fought it head on. At times, he would decide not to attack, not to beat against a brick wall. I used that opportunity to get at the optimal range (which is one pixel farther from him than the range of my low strong). From this range, I continued to low strong forever. I wasn’t winning by doing that, but I wasn’t losing either. Even the robotic Thao would eventually tire and attack, sometimes at the wrong times out of annoyance or desperation. Spectators reported that I did an amazing 18 consecutive low strongs without either myself or Thao doing any other moves.

A side effect of my low strongs is that they create a “baseline expectation” of what I’m going to do. The sneaky roundhouse I do after the 17th low strong is pretty tricky, actually. I mean, wouldn’t you expect an 18th low strong after the 17th one? (Note: I was actually even more sneaky by doing the 18th low strong, then the low roundhouse.)

My story is dragging on as much as that match did. Each game is best 2 out of 3 rounds, and games tended to go the full 3 rounds. They went the full count of 4-3 when Thao won the first set, and all the way to the 14th and final game, where I won 4-3 in the second set to win the tournament. I collapsed in dehydration and drank a quart of red Fierce Berry Gatorade without pause. Even today, Fierce Berry Gatorade tastes like victory to me, but I digress.

Had I ever actually fought Thao “normally” with Rose, he would have killed me easily. Instead, in an amazingly boring and non-crowd-pleasing show, I attempted to prevent actual fighting through my “brick wall trick” of low strong. Furthermore, I bored my opponent into attacking hastily at times, and generally frustrated him, or at least think I did.

It’s interesting to note that early rounds of Street Fighter tournaments are often dominated by “tricks” like the ones I’ve described. Few players have the will to keep those brick walls up forever, though, and eventually resort to “actually playing.” Also interesting is that the last rounds of Street Fighter tournaments—especially the finals round to determine the top two players—very rarely operate anything like I’ve described. Far more often, the players good enough to get the final two are also good enough to easily avoid the kind of roadblocks I’ve been talking about, even if they have to devise countermeasures on the spot. The usual case at such high levels of play is “actual fighting” right off the bat, the very thing I try to put off as long as possible in a tournament match. So it seems that (my own exploits excepted!) tricks will only get you so far. Above a certain level of play, you must actively try to win the game, not just wait for the opponent to hand it to you. To the benefit of the spectators, when the best face the best, there are more often two bloody, clashing swords than a sheathed one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfKN1qXbey0

Trykt
Jul 30, 2000

Still training..


Killer Instinct is a pretty good game with a super great pc port that's one of the best games at making itself transparent (good tutorial, frame data and hitbox viewer baked in, etc.) out right now. It also has the gold standard in fighting game netcode in my opinion and the pc version supports crossplay with xbone, meaning it comes with a decent sized community already going strong. Just saying, y'all should play it!

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwVQ43SUOE&amp;hd=1

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004



I LOVE BUSTIN

Gammatron 64
Nov 28, 2007

Die-cast construction.
It's a lost art.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJtzA8deLcI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mWlAaH6DCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzF5hMFLrMM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgoCbHDHTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he0tuVgHJZg

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo6TbaOMMJI

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9caTktglhUI&amp;hd=1

burger time
Apr 17, 2005



Trykt posted:

Killer Instinct is a pretty good game with a super great pc port that's one of the best games at making itself transparent (good tutorial, frame data and hitbox viewer baked in, etc.) out right now. It also has the gold standard in fighting game netcode in my opinion and the pc version supports crossplay with xbone, meaning it comes with a decent sized community already going strong. Just saying, y'all should play it!

How good a pc does it require?

von Braun
Oct 30, 2009


Broder Daniel Forever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-rpxlc19h8

Booyah-
Dec 21, 2004



i really dont know how anyone could watch the videos on this page, and play any number of free games, and not think that fighting games are the best pvp games on the internet, right now

brosnans post is good

fighting games are good

if u are bad thats fine, im bad too. lets play

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."




I pressed buttons in UNIEL training mode last night and it felt good because I fuckin love anime and all of its super bullshit.

Hadooooken
Sep 6, 2004



Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

I pressed buttons in UNIEL training mode last night and it felt good because I fuckin love anime and all of its super bullshit.

I wish people kept playing UNIEL but then again the netcode is just boring BB netcode so i still wouldn't be playing anyone

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Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


Fereydun posted:

i cant find that one jojos match so have this instead

i gotchu fam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMKaK07-e3Q#t=247s

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