Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!


monsterfuckers are more powerful than they've ever been before, Darkstalkers could 100% come back if they put the budget and effort into it, which i doubt they would

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Countblanc posted:

monsterfuckers are more powerful than they've ever been before, Darkstalkers could 100% come back if they put the budget and effort into it, which i doubt they would

A Darkstalkers dating sim would print money

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



It's honestly kind of hard to envision how a regular 3d or even Strive-style Darkstalkers would look. Like having volume would somehow detract from the look in a way I can't really explain. Getting the stretching and such right would be really hard.

It would also naturally have to have the old Morrigan sprite in it somewhere.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Xand_Man posted:

A Darkstalkers dating sim would print money

the issue si capcom would never make a sincere one itd be some lame 2 hour long jokey thing thats forgotten about in a week

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





bring back namco high

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Xand_Man posted:

A Darkstalkers dating sim would print money

Monster Prom already exists! it did pretty well for itself IIRC

e: it is specifically a competitive dating sim, so you could even have tournaments in theory

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



I think the real question here is why isn't every fighting game a dating sim? KoF pioneered it.

b_d
Sep 10, 2017



chumbler posted:

It's honestly kind of hard to envision how a regular 3d or even Strive-style Darkstalkers would look. Like having volume would somehow detract from the look in a way I can't really explain. Getting the stretching and such right would be really hard.

It would also naturally have to have the old Morrigan sprite in it somewhere.

I dunno, Morrigan and Felicia translated pretty well in MvC3.

Reiley
Dec 16, 2007




Smoking Crow posted:

i mean, there's 10 billion different types of fps and that genre's fine

Most FPS play the same, your gun is either tracking or predicting. Most subcategories of FG are fundamentally different where you can improve at all of them by playing many of them but it's hard to jump between them because so many of them are fundamentally different from one another. Compared to many other types of games a large community is fragmented into many smaller subcommunities in a way that I think hurts making new franchises.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


a lot of Darkstalkers characters are constantly transforming or pulling weird crap out of nowhere, and the ones who have made the transition to modern 3D games are mostly (Hsien-Ko / Lei-Lei aside) the ones who do that stuff the least, plus the usual bias towards popularity

absolutely anything
Dec 28, 2006


the transforming stuff was definitely a concern in the 360 era when the darkstalkers revival was still supposedly happening/mvc3 was released but i think we're past that from both a technical standpoint and just from 3d animators being better at that kind of stuff

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!



absolutely anything posted:

the transforming stuff was definitely a concern in the 360 era when the darkstalkers revival was still supposedly happening/mvc3 was released but i think we're past that from both a technical standpoint and just from 3d animators being better at that kind of stuff

Yeah Jedah and Venom in MvCI of all things shows Capcom can model transformation poo poo just fine

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Monster Prom already exists! it did pretty well for itself IIRC

e: it is specifically a competitive dating sim, so you could even have tournaments in theory

what

Monster Prom just jumped up my backlog

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

I don't know what I just saw.



Smoking Crow posted:

i dont think most major game studios are gonna made a whole new IP for a while tbh

Valve been ignoring every franchise for like 5+ years cause they wanna make a new IP. Also VR was a heck of a sidetrack.


Yeesh, glad SF4 and MK9 showed that you don't have to reinvent the wheel with a new fighting game. Can even leave it 2-D, just make it pretty. Reminds me of when New Super Mario Bros became the best selling nintendo game and the old people at nintendo were like 'But.... we thought young people hate literally everything thats more than 10 minutes old'

Blaise330 fucked around with this message at 03:14 on May 5, 2021

mango sentinel
Jan 5, 2001

H O R N E Y


Xand_Man posted:

what

Monster Prom just jumped up my backlog

Don't get too excited, the character designs and art are like 90% of what's good about the game.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

I have a stupid request:

Could someone please help me find the video clip of Chris Hu saying "Best Bipson"?

I've been looking for it for a long time and I can't remember when it was said or which event it was and it doesn't seem to be in any "Best of Chris Hu" videos.

J.A.B.C.
Jul 2, 2007

There's no need to rush to be an adult.


chumbler posted:

It's honestly kind of hard to envision how a regular 3d or even Strive-style Darkstalkers would look. Like having volume would somehow detract from the look in a way I can't really explain. Getting the stretching and such right would be really hard.

I dunno. MvC 3 and SF4 had some pretty wild facial expressions and other stuff they did with the models, and the techniques have only really improved over time.

Interesting bit: if you find a video of DBFZ where they lock the camera for the cinematic supers, you can see how some supers will squash, stretch and expand limbs to fool the viewer into a perspective. Android 21 and Teen Gohan are good examples of this, as their hands will become massive for their Lv. 3 to give the illusion of depth for their attack.

chumbler posted:

It would also naturally have to have the old Morrigan sprite in it somewhere.

Darkness Illusion just summons Sprite Morrigan for the attack on a 10% chance, so people think it's a shitpost for the first few days.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




J.A.B.C. posted:

I dunno. MvC 3 and SF4 had some pretty wild facial expressions and other stuff they did with the models, and the techniques have only really improved over time.

Interesting bit: if you find a video of DBFZ where they lock the camera for the cinematic supers, you can see how some supers will squash, stretch and expand limbs to fool the viewer into a perspective. Android 21 and Teen Gohan are good examples of this, as their hands will become massive for their Lv. 3 to give the illusion of depth for their attack.


Darkness Illusion just summons Sprite Morrigan for the attack on a 10% chance, so people think it's a shitpost for the first few days.

Makes a lot of sense given DBFZ tries to recreate the show's look as faithfully as possible, and animation does exactly that all the time. It's just a matter of working with the design and knowing when to cheat. (often) Of course, Smash Bros has done the same thing for years, and while Ultimate mostly downplays it, there's a lot of squash and stretch visible with the cartoony characters like Mario and especially with Banjo and Kazooie.

Darkstalkers absolutely has appeal, even as a neglected franchise a lot of its characters are popular, and at this point its wild and varied character designs and aesthetic are absolutely a draw compared to more restrained fighting games. (and as said, sexy monsters have never been more popular, and Darkstalkers has something for every flavour of depravity) Specifically, I imagine it'd have a lot of appeal to audiences who wouldn't be interested in other fighting games full of relatively generic martial artists/ninjas/soldiers/anime swordsmen.

von Braun
Oct 30, 2009


Broder Daniel Forever

Elephant Ambush posted:

I have a stupid request:

Could someone please help me find the video clip of Chris Hu saying "Best Bipson"?

I've been looking for it for a long time and I can't remember when it was said or which event it was and it doesn't seem to be in any "Best of Chris Hu" videos.


https://youtu.be/di52SYOcf7k

at the end

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Reiley posted:

Most FPS play the same, your gun is either tracking or predicting. Most subcategories of FG are fundamentally different where you can improve at all of them by playing many of them but it's hard to jump between them because so many of them are fundamentally different from one another. Compared to many other types of games a large community is fragmented into many smaller subcommunities in a way that I think hurts making new franchises.

Most fighting games play the same, you either do chain combos or link combos.

Arzachel fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 5, 2021

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Arzachel posted:

Most fighting games play the same, you either to chain combos or link combos.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I dial my combos

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great


really it's about making the opponent's hp go down by anticipating their actions and doing good inputs, clearly proving fps and fighting games are the same, also magic the gathering

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




RoadCrewWorker posted:

really it's about making the opponent's hp go down by anticipating their actions and doing good inputs, clearly proving fps and fighting games are the same, also magic the gathering

A magic the gathering (or just general spellcaster themed) fighting game sounds cool as hell.

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


Its not that controversial to say fighting games are mostly similar. You think the same guys kill it in every new game because theyre superhuman geniuses? Theyre not

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



It just makes you sound extremely lame to do the reductive "Duh actually, characters are functions" type thing.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Lord_Magmar posted:

A magic the gathering (or just general spellcaster themed) fighting game sounds cool as hell.

There are a few attempts on this but I can't really think of a particularly good one/one that doesn't devolve into more of an action game brawler than a traditional fighter.

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


unfortunately the major magic fighting game today is the horse game

Saoshyant
Oct 26, 2010





dragon enthusiast posted:

unfortunately the major magic fighting game today is the horse game

I'm pretty sure Uma Musume isn't a fighting game, but YMMV.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Arzachel posted:

Most fighting games play the same, you either do chain combos or link combos.

To make this less of a drive-by shitpost, sub-genres in fps are strongly rooted in movement options/properties which serve as a basis for all the other gameplay design decisions. You stand around a corner pre-aiming in CSGO because movement fucks with your accuracy and taking damage slows you to a crawl. You flick and track more when playing arena shooters because there's super strong movement options available to change your position. Someone good at a certain style of fps will be able to transfer his skillset to a different sort of game but there's a obvious learning curve.

All this will sound very similar to fighting games, so the take "fps are all the same, unlike fighting games" seems silly to me.

Blue Labrador
Feb 17, 2011

I appreciate your willingness to press your advantage. That shows confidence!

I'm actually invincible on disadvantage, but that's a trait unique to Dandies like myself.

Don't feel discouraged!

Lord_Magmar posted:

A magic the gathering (or just general spellcaster themed) fighting game sounds cool as hell.

Hard agree. A game where the majority of the cast has Nine the Phantom vibes? That'd metal as hell.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


Lord_Magmar posted:

A magic the gathering (or just general spellcaster themed) fighting game sounds cool as hell.

You should try Touhou Hisoutensoku to potentially scratch that itch to sling spellcards and magic everywhere.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





If I go from CS:GO to Siege, that's gonna be a pretty harsh change, but there are obvious similarities despite radical differences. If I then go to Titanfall 2 or one of the jumpy Cods, that's just a completely different world, and even going from regular CoD MP to Warzone is a pretty big step. I know people who will win most Warzone bouts, and end up with a 2/50 K/D in a regular MP game, and vice versa. Then you've get to stuff like Overwatch where a *lot* of the things you need to survive in the other games are secondary to what makes a good OW player. With all that said, I can get to an average level in pretty much any shooter in a few hours, but I don't know if that's because of general FPS knowledge or more than two decades of video games.

Also, like I mentioned, I haven't played fighting games in a long time and it's not the type of game I have a lot of innate knowledge about, so I don't know how this relates to fighters, but if nothing else I think it paints a picture of FPS games.

Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 13:35 on May 5, 2021

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great


Arzachel posted:

so the take "fps are all the same, unlike fighting games" seems silly to me.
yeah that was the funny part, it was obviously someone who has no idea about the genre doing a hot take

unlike fighting games where you just ex dp, duh

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Black Griffon posted:

If I go from CS:GO to Siege, that's gonna be a pretty harsh change, but there are obvious similarities despite radical differences. If I then go to Titanfall 2 or one of the jumpy Cods, that's just a completely different world, and even going from regular CoD MP to Warzone is a pretty big step. I know people who will win most Warzone bouts, and end up with a 2/50 K/D in a regular MP game, and vice versa. Then you've get to stuff like Overwatch where a *lot* of the things you need to survive in the other games are secondary to what makes a good OW player. With all that said, I can get to an average level in pretty much any shooter in a few hours, but I don't know if that's because of general FPS knowledge or more than two decades of video games.

Also, like I mentioned, I haven't played fighting games in a long time and it's not the type of game I have a lot of innate knowledge about, so I don't know how this relates to fighters, but if nothing else I think it paints a picture of FPS games.

Not to mention if you start including stuff like Quake or various tribes games (RIP) where the movement requires practice in and of itself to be any good at it. Like you could take the best COD or CS:GO player in the world and they'd get absolutely spanked by any decent quake player just due to that alone. Don't matter how accurate you are (outside of rails) if your opponent can zoom away and basically lap you on powerups

Elvis_Maximus fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 5, 2021

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





Yeah, that's sort of what I was getting at with TiFa 2, but Quake or Tribes is obviously a far better example.

Or LawBreakers, a game which was MURDERED.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



I feel like Lawbreakers just had so much going against it, tougher game when those types of FPS were trying to water it down a bit for people, the more unreal engine whatever character designs when everything was trying to be bright and quirky, all that kind of stuff.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





Oh yeah, it was cursed from the start, but there was just something about it that really charmed me, and I was good at it.

Also, in addition to all the stuff we've talked about, we have the world of single player FPS games and the way they're meant to be played. A Nightmare (or UN, inshallah) run of Doom 16 plays in a very specific way that doesn't translate to competitive play, but is still just as much a representation of one specific kind of FPS skill. Speed-running older FPS games, legendary Halo runs, all that stuff plays in pretty unique ways.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


The post should've been aiming at the more obvious reason why fps is popular and it's because it's a super low bar to even be competent at the main attribute of shooters.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I think critically its also you get to shoot back even while getting rocked in a shooter. In a fighting game you gotta sit there eating some serious poo poo when you get tagged

My Sirlin-Brained Fighting Game concept is one where very few moves put you into actual hit stun and the game is mostly just chipping people out and creating damage setups where they have to choose a pile of chip hits or get tagged for a true combo, aka Senko No Ronde but on the ground.

Barudak fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 5, 2021

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply