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Got some ArcSystem games for pc recently (haven't played anything in the genre since SF2 on the SNES launch and their tutorial/challenge stuff is pretty decent for onboarding) and am wondering if there's a reason - besides platform holders being lovely maybe? - they don't pool platform playerpools together for their online stuff. The populations for anything that isn't SF seem to diminish pretty quickly anyway. Significant edition/version missmatch maybe? Cheating considerations?
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Apr 6, 2018 17:58
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Aww, i kind of figured it was something along those lines. Bummer, that seemed like a genre where most aspects could be kept at parity independent of the platform. I guess most FGs have a main platform (gonna guess ps4?) these days and are pretty barren outside of that? not that me and my dozen hours of learning the control basics wouldn't get eaten alive in any pvp context, but still RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 18:15
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Alright so this is probably a long shot since nobody serious enough to frequent the thread cares about entry level rookie stuff, but are there fighting games that are known for good, "clean" AI? As i'm working my way through various challenge and difficulty modes trying to get a handle on the basics (and their execution) i'm noticing a pattern of unashamedly cheating AIs or special "boss" characters that feel intentionally designed around arbitrarily breaking the game's rules and mechanics and appear only beatable via various exploit-y methods or cheesy strats that don't seem particularly applicable against a player opponent. It feels like the design is still stuck in the same mindset as RTS games where most AIs beyond a certain point used to not get "smarter", they just started to cheat more and more overtly. Like if a chess engine past a certain ELO suddenly started taking double turns or got a free queen every couple moves. Which feels weird, because i'm definitely still at a point on the learning curve where that's entirely unnecessary to kick my butt without breaking a sweat. though now i wonder if there are any 12p pvp competitions, if only for silly exhibition goofing around. On a sidenote i also kind of wish there was some basic feedback like "youve used x% safe/unsafe attacks that were exploitable, didn't block for y% while in the range of immediate opponent attacks, missed y chances to throw while the opponent was vulnerable, forgot to use meter/charge/mechanic that couldve prevented damage, only did x cross-ups" etc as hints to my most significant weak spots or things i'm just completely forgetting, but that's another request probably way outside of most games' scope.
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Apr 10, 2018 08:57
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dangerdoom volvo posted:Don't play vs ai yo mamma a Horus posted:fighting ai is gonna teach you weird habits, but yo mamma a Horus posted:if its all you got then its all you got. Reiley posted:A lot of fighting games is anticipation and inferring what someone might likely do next based on prior decisions. AI isn't very good at that, but it can react to choices faster than any human player, so you get a different experience than fighting a living opponent. You just have to keep that distinction in mind dangerdoom volvo posted:you can give yourself that feedback by looking at your replays PaletteSwappedNinja posted:you're pretty much restricted to tutorials and training modes, the efficacy of which varies greatly from developer to developer and game to game, and very rarely is it "fun". Sade posted:A lot of what you're suggesting would be close to impossible for a game to capture automatically because "unsafe" is an emergent property of the way fighting games handle frame data. Unsafe moves can be made safe by using them at specific times or specific distances. A lot of the others are contextual and touchy-feely - you don't necessarily want to block in range of opponents' attacks, for example. At any rate, what you're asking for doesn't exist AFAIK. Play better players, watch better players, watch your own replays and spend time in training mode. I'll keep Skullgirls and KI on my radar though! thanks guys/gals RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 17:00
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It's BBCF - the 100-200 is players in the game in steam, online seems more like 10-20 - and i eventually found the only lobby with players. Got perfected a few dozen times in a row by a handful of regulars with 300-500 hours in CF (and hundreds more in the prequels). I lost one where the guy put the controller down for 10 seconds before landing 2 consecutive 45 hit combos on me - i bursted out of the first but wiffed an attack right after. The only one i won was one player on the opposite side of the planet whose connection was so bad our game states seemed over a second apart. I'm not quite sure what i learned (besides that i'm as readable as an open book and am missing at least 200 hours of playtime to show up in that neighbourhood and "should go back to na lul") but i guess the replays make for flashy combo exhibitions. 
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 19:32
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I don't mind getting destroyed or bm'd on, that's pretty much a given considering what i'm attempting (jumping into an old high skill ceiling game when all the other casuals have left for DBFZ), but after a while i feel like i'm just wasting these guy's time and don't have the access to properly dissect the replays beyond "i didn't block properly after a slow attack here, and then 70% of my lifebar was gone". Which, as far as lessons go, has significantly diminishing returns.LORD OF BOOTY posted:You really, really, really want to find a discord for BB, anime fighters' communities tend to actively ignore whatever online lobby functions the game actually has RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 20:01
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I'm pretty sure we're mostly on the same page here. I've got 1000 hours in souls games and know the value of persistence and investing time getting shredded over and over again while recognizing patterns, realizing your bad habits and trying to steer against them, but that only actually helps when i'm on a level where i eventually realize what hosed me up and stop doing it. I've played Go for years and the first lesson you get there is "try to lose your first 500 games in the best way possible" - but that also usually includes post game reviews and comments from the better player pointing out mistakes that a beginner just isn't equipped to spot. In chess you can use an engine to locate poor moves and see other continuations to illustrate why your move was a bad idea and derive a rule to hopefully prevent similar things going forward. For my fg losses i haven't really found that yet (unless there was something encoded in the homophobic trash talk i've gotten after it). I'm not frustrated with losing - i get way saltier when i feel the AI opponent suddenly switches into frame-perfect block and super mode because that just feels arbitrarily cheap - if anything i feel confused if i'm missing a better to way pull feedback from the matches i do play, regardless of (usually predictable) outcome. Which prompted my initial questions about decent AIs or extended training/feedback options. Broken Loose posted:you could not realize the opponent is OSing you for multiple games in a row if the game and the OS are janky enough RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 06:31
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Garnavis posted:Anyone wanna talk about fighting games
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Apr 11, 2018 16:41
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I almost feel like the last discussion had everyone arguing basically the same thing, but with more things being missread than in my last online matches. Also i watched a stream of casual play of a preview build of the next BB cross tag game and the random matchups included plenty of near-perfect wipes that reminded me of my own. One of the commentators mentioned that that's to be expected as everyone's defensive game during the early days is basically non-existent so mostly everything hits, which felt extremely familiar to me (as mine is basically duck blocking and hoping i get a rage jab in before the opponent works an overhead or grab in there). Guess i've got my work cut out for me! RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 08:02
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Reiley posted:I think a good small piece of advice to offer is a way to think about blocking in 2D fighters. Generally attacks that you have to block low will come out faster than attacks you have to block high, so if you downback by default when you're blocking you can watch out for a gap in pressure where they either perform an overhead attack with long startup, stop attacking to dashup grab or airdash at you, which you'd have to block high, and the lengthier pause in pressure is enough that you can react to it easier than if you're guarding mid and they throw out a low. You can also push buttons while holding back, so if you're holding mid-back 4 position while attacking someone who is blocking you'll be blocking as soon as your last attack finishes. It's not a bad habit to pick up. I can also tell that my muscle memory for certain combos or blocking reactions is way worse while facing left. Wonder how common players having a "stronger", or at least more comfortable side is? Probably can't be too prevalent or otherwise people would focus on exploiting it extensively. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 19:08
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All i've seen of BBTag so far is Spookys broadcast/tournament a week ago: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/249412237 I'm not sure if that version was the final planned release or if they're still holding stuff back? They mentioned that various moves have changed input locations and most but not all specific mechanics made it in, so i wonder how much experience/muscle memory transfers from having played the characters in their respective games. Granted, the tagging alone likely mixes things up significantly.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:33
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Arc System Worst Their monthly streams are (besides the obvious raw PR aspect) kind of adorable.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:03
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Endorph posted:hot take but i think the crimes of smelling bad and jacking off in a guest bed are way less bad than like 80% of the poo poo that goes down in the eff-gee-cee ... this is one of those abyss situations isn't it forget i asked
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Apr 28, 2018 16:31
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How the gently caress do you enter/watch a tournament intentionally designed to include significant elements of chance and then complain about that chance coming in to play? Do those people also watch poker tournaments and then cry for years about how X was actually the better player if a dominated Y hadn't sucked out on the river? Like i very much get not liking poker or random elements in your 1v1 duels and thats fine - everybody is free to not play or watch it - but once everyone's agreed to the framework that sour grapes garbage just feels like pointless lovely attitude missing the point entirely. obligatory: absolutely anything posted:this hinges on smash players having the brains of adult men and not just the bodies
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May 1, 2018 20:28
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Comparing an average sample of personal experiences of a community you are entrenched in and familiar with with a highly selected sample of memorable horror stories (retold over and over for years) of the worst monsters of another community you know little else of is pretty much a foregone conclusion by design. The larger the community in question the bigger the pool of inevitable shitheads you can easily pick from. Of course that's not stopping anyone from doing it, it's pretty much the entire point. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 10:01 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 09:59
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Uncle Kitchener posted:Without context, you'd be describing pretty much anything tbh. Also speaking generally, BB's Nine's normals can go gently caress themselves regardless of context. That boss character crap is turning my attempts at learning various new characters from a fun learning experience in a miserable pit of despair. 
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May 2, 2018 19:02
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I've gathered that there's a significant difference between anime fighters (lots of mobility and dashing, usually longer combos and more meters, more visual flash and clutter) and more "regular(?)" fighters that seem to put heavier emphasis on neutral footsies (i think?). I thought i'd expand my horizon a bit by picking up MKXL on a sale but so far it's been a pretty rocky start (and not only because it has a dedicated block button and apparently old legacy control scheme). Is that title a pretty decent representation of that sub-genre and maybe just not my cup of tea or is it just considered a somewhat unique (both in good and bad) entry and i should just go to the popular #1 top of the class SF4/5 to get a better impression? I'm leaning towards the former but i don't really have the context to make that judgement. Disclaimer: every time i consider going down the SF route i watch some streams and seeing people fight (and lose against) Abigail just seems like the most dreadful, off-putting experience imaginable. So that's not particularly enticing.
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May 5, 2018 10:02
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Thanks everyone, that corrects and clears up a few of my uneducated misconceptions. MKXL felt pretty awkward to play as a beginner, so i was wondering a bit if my honeymoon period with a certain arksys style might've primed/spoiled me. Guess i'll keep looking around and into some of the examples mentioned - i'd never heard of "poverty" term, i guess that's just a catch-all for relatively unpopular or older games, Dong Dong Never Die -style? Also gonna keep any eye out for Tekken, it seems pretty unique - is it the basically the only relevant 3D fighter at this point? RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 11:08 on May 5, 2018 |
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May 5, 2018 10:46
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The animation in MKX's cgi cutscenes is definitely a lot of quantity, even if the quality is often unintentionally hilarious. I'm okay with some janky camp, that's pretty much MK in a nutshell. During the first 30 minutes I didn't mind the really long goofy X-ray and Fatality animations either, they were pretty ridiculous. They're a lot less entertaining and a lot more obnoxious if you've seen them 3-4 times, let alone 300-400. There has to be a way to skip those, i feel like i'm missing something very basic.
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May 5, 2018 18:46
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Jmcrofts posted:I like this vid as a look into how bad NRS animations STILL are. Real hurthling! posted:When you get gud you use meter for better poo poo than a yolo super RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 5, 2018 |
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May 5, 2018 19:41
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okay if i can play as the left guy i take it all back
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May 5, 2018 19:51
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Cf for 15 bucks was the best trying-a-new genre purchase i've made in years, any other games i've bought/tried since just make me appreciate poo poo in it i just took for granted more. Granted, i'm only 70 hours of casual tinkering in, basically a drop in the ocean, but another 70 sounds way more possible than i'd ever thought before i got it. Still wont git gud but totally okay with that. The BBTAG dlc stuff looks kinda over the top tho, guess they're cashing in on all the rwby fans? Time to wait for the full bundle sale when the only ones left playing are the dedicated hardcore god tiers who can disintegrate anyone else into fine paste using just their pinky without breaking a sweat 
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 12:00 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 11:57
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I'll defend probably too much of bb but i honestly couldn't name a single music track, i usually turn their volume to 0. They're fitting as generic high pace background filler but not really memorable beyond that. Granted, i mute GGs music as well to play my own in the background instead, so that might just be me
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May 11, 2018 17:40
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I found someone in a lobby and we sparred for a bit pretty even on new-ish (sub 30 games) characters and then after a while he switches to hakumen, selects MUST DIE as the match song and pulls two of the sickest (and almost synched to the music) super finishes of i've ever seen. I laughed pretty hard (and also want to learn how to play hakumen now, because drat, i havent shouted "holy poo poo" at my screen like that in a while) maybe in another hundred hours when i can actually read my opponent well enough to parry anything RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 20:02 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 19:58
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:It's a Japanese airdasher fighting game. But yeah, any testing/demo/preview stuff is probably asking a bit too much
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May 11, 2018 20:35
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I played cse with the dub and it didn't do much for me besides make a really stupid story feel even stupider. GG Xrds dub is hilarious with I-No cursing up a storm tho, so i can see the argument
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 21:08 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 21:05
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Countblanc posted:i still wonder what the "etc" character row is for. i mean it seems pretty obvious that it's Other Franchises but you'd think there would at least be a single representative for launch there 
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May 12, 2018 07:06
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The chances of BB ever getting the ggxx->xrd artstyle makeover are pretty much nil, aren't they? Going back from signs/revelator to xxac+r's 480x320-gruff-with sidebars is pretty jarring.
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May 12, 2018 10:11
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Counterpoint: who cares if they fit? Wish more games pining for that arcade feel included faux-attract/ai demo modes. Where's my Mame compatible coin-slot usb controller for that authentic vintage experience? RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 13:05 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 13:03
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I just learned that my favorite bb lambda god Hito plays on a ds4 instead of a fancy Qanba or something like i had imagined, which makes my own feeble attempts at using those thumbsticks for rapid quarters or dps even more humbling. Shows what a few thousand hours of experience can do! Also bbtags "select the order" screen music opening always makes me think Avrils Skater boy is about to play and i can't unhear it despite trying desperately i'm not yet sure if that's a good or bad thing RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 06:05 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 05:58
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Zand posted:nobody uses thumbsticks for fgs they use the pad could just be a fg meme joke going over my head or him pulling my leg, but even on the dpad that's still insanely impressive to me
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May 14, 2018 07:00
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lamentable dustman posted:Pretty sure some game once had a bug were if you held back on the dpad and forward with the stick it would option select move forward and auto block when an attack was thrown. lamentable dustman posted:I imagine he meant 360 command throws when he says circle motions. Pretty fast to do if you palm it but hard with your thumb RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 07:15 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 07:08
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Finally, someone is putting some sanwa buttons into a body pillow
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May 16, 2018 15:10
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dragon enthusiast posted:already been done  now they only need to make it on the evo mainstage to duel full-costume SonicFox Broken Loose posted:actually, it's right-handed. you embrace the stick from behind
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May 16, 2018 17:52
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after my first 100 hours in fighting games rocking a solid 1/50 average winrate (skewed a little by sparring lessons against extremely welcoming tournament level experts) that honestly sounds like an enticingly promising approach, will be taking it into consideration
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May 23, 2018 06:44
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No kidding, this schedule is dense gonna stream watch bbcf and xrd with some buddies, maybe some vsav and unist if time allows. Good luck to everyone in the tournaments!
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May 25, 2018 14:19
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Double Bill posted:CB mystery game tournament live now https://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky edit: oh no, that's not the fun kind of technical hiccup https://twitter.com/ComboBreakerFGC/status/1000124643695570946 RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 18:47
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Broken Loose posted:There was so much bluetooth interference in the main venue Had an incredibly good time watching the Top brackets and finals for the games i was interested in (holy poo poo top level Skullgirls is a real mindfuck) and people seemed so stoked for Tekken it was audible on basically any other stream. Was surprised to see so many stick/pad/hitbox malfunctions, i guess they get pretty roughed up in high tension matches.
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May 29, 2018 14:42
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In Training posted:When you play wired it still connects via bluetooth bc the PS4 is a wonderful console. isn't ps4 basically the de-facto tournament standard? oh christ
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May 29, 2018 14:51
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Apparently (going by feedback from various anime fg discords) the BBTag story mode is a disappointing letdown anyway? Did Atlus ever pull through with people streaming p5 when they tried that same "hi, we don't understand jackshit about how anyone uses the internet" bluff garbage? Who in their right minds saw that poo poo going down and thought "yup, what a concept, we could use a little of that ourselves, we just have too much good PR right now."
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Jun 1, 2018 09:02
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