Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

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Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Blockhouse posted:

The thing that always gets me about SNK Heroines is not that it's a fanservicey fighting game, that's whatever. There's plenty of those games that are fine to good to even great.

What gets me is that SNK Heroines' whole deal is the characters are actively uncomfortable about it. It's like a weird extra exploitative layer slathered over the whole game that really, really did not to be there.

it extra doesnt make sense since mai is actively into dressing up like that and flirting.

theres some okay jokes but iunno why they made it weird instead of just having fun with it.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2020 20:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 18:20

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

i mean im not gonna pretend a bit of that kind of thing cant be like, fun in its own way, but there's a difference between 'mild nervous embarrassment' and 'a weird alien hacker kidnapped everyone and is livestreaming it without their consent' or whatever is going on in heroines

# ¿ Oct 29, 2020 20:53

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dias posted:

What's the "I don't wanna put effort into learning hard poo poo" character in ACR? Is it "go play another game"?

faust has to learn what his items do and how to react to them but is otherwise pretty easy
sol and ky are the two basic characters but since theyre basic they do require some knowledge of the games systems
potemkin is every grappler character ever made
and order sol is pretty unga-bunga minus understanding how his charge works and timing active charge

really guilty gear characters are less complicated than they look for the most part. there's some very execution heavy characters like johnny but the characters that require a phd in their mechanics are less common than in say, blazblue or persona 4 arena. As an example im pretty sure faust has like half the items in his random item throw that teddie in p4a does.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 29, 2020

# ¿ Oct 29, 2020 22:01

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Wrist Watch posted:

Wait hold on. So the team working on the rollback quietly brought him on board after he fired everyone from lab zero and now they're announcing he was let go for brownie points? What the gently caress?

games industry.txt

# ¿ Oct 30, 2020 21:50

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

sharrrk posted:

in ggxxac+r on the may ship stage there's a bunch of characters who reference madoka magica. its cute and i can name every single one of them there except for one and i cannot figure out who she is supposed to be

The rose in her hair and the shade of her hair, plus the way it mostly covers her face, makes me think she's meant to be Gertud?

Or, well, 'gertrud back when she was a magical girl.'

# ¿ Nov 6, 2020 08:14

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

giogadi posted:

Haven�t people been saying for ages that games should be balanced with buffs, not nerfs? Is the problem that the buffs were too samey and that the strong chars also got buffed?

'games should be balanced with buffs' is not the same as 'characters should be buffed whenever possible'

and even with that mindset in mind its not like anyone is saying you should literally never nerf. just that when something is good a lot of devs' immediate instinct is to nerf, when if a character feels fun, fluid, and strong, why not make every character that good.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 17:03

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

time for them to put an idolmaster character in

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 17:18

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

the reality is there's no reason to make a big complex fighting game when stuff like ninja storm sells just as well. not that ninja storm was a bad game honestly but its not like individual characters are insanely distinct and complex. that's the market dbfz was competing with, not traditional fighting games.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 23:52

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

i like the what if story in tenkaichi 3 where spike the devilman, a guy from the original dragon ball whose power was being able to explode the evil in people, instantly oneshot every single antagonist

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 23:57

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Eh some One Piece characters are weirdly tall. All the admirals are like 10 feet tall. You could easily fudge the heights a bit though, most one piece games do that with Katakuri already. Though Pirate Warriors 4 didn't and, uh

lol

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 02:47

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

sharrrk posted:

i always read heights in one piece as largely being more like suggestions than something to take literally

oda basically has the opposite philosophy of toriyama. every main antagonist except cell is shorter than goku. in one piece every main antagonist except like, buggy, is way taller than luffy. how tall just varies as needed. katakuri is massive because its meant to be a fight luffy barely won and hes meant to be the biggest and baddest of all of big mom's commanders. blackbeard towers over luffy but is smaller than the admirals. that sort of thing. they're basically like the mechs in evangelion, where sometimes those things are like, only the size of an average building, and sometimes they're towering over skyscrapers.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 02:58

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

even in the more recent jump fighters there's a decent amount of variety. jump force is a terrible game but yugi and kaiba are playable. imagine if arcsys got their hands on those two in a traditional fighting game context.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 20:20

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dracula Factory posted:

That's really what I want, another ArcSys game where they put half as much love into each character as they do in Guilty Gear (and I assume BlazBlue). I'm hoping with all my heart that Strive will be good because it's just so drat pretty, but that's what I was hoping for in DBFZ and walked away disappointed.

I mean ultimately that's just the constraints of the license. Granblue has a decent amount of variation between the cahracters - there's a lot of 'shoto with sword' but Lowain is pretty Guilty Gear-esque and Cagliostro has a lot going on, as two random examples. And you can see attempts at unique stuff in DBFZ, like Krillin, Nappa, and Ginyu. But ultimately there's just not a lot you can do with DBZ. Maybe they could have gotten more out there with Fat Buu or Gotenks, but realistically if you have 8 gokus in a game they're gonna fight like Goku, and Goku fights by punching, kicking, and firing beams. And I doubt they would have been allowed to do something goofy like give Goku a Sin-esque food meter.

You can see this in Android 21, who was made for the game and has a gimmick that's way more in your face than any other character in the game.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 00:00

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Given MvC has pretty much ground to a halt under Disney's micromanagement they might not be able to throw all their otherwise shelved characters into one big crossover to vaguely appease the fans, so they might as well actually try making something else.

VS is in kind of an awkward spot. Marvel isn't playing ball, the one time they tried to do Capcom vs Capcom it was freaking Capcom Fighting Jam, and SNK isn't nearly as big as it used to be. Granted, they do have the Smash thing going on, but still. What else could they make? Tatsunoko 2?

They could go the spit in the eye route and angle for Capcom vs DC, but that'd absolutely make it so they can never make another marvel game ever again. So jokes about Tatsunoko 2 aside,they will probably have to find some random company to team up with if they want to make another VS. Maybe Capcom vs Bandai-Namco, but that has the x tekken issues. Capcom vs Sega?

# ¿ Nov 12, 2020 15:25

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

ironically they could put spiderman in that game also

# ¿ Nov 12, 2020 15:33

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

only if a rumble fish character is in it

# ¿ Nov 12, 2020 16:04

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

quote:

In October, Gamasutra reported that Guilty Gear developer Arc System Works had suspended Zaimont from work on the community-led GGPO rollback netcode update for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R. His suspension from the project is just part of a story about the demise of a studio.

Zaimont's suspension did not come until after Gamasutra asked Arc System Works about his involvement with the Guilty Gear project. Takeshi Yamanaka with Arc System Works eventually admitted to Gamasutra that the company "overlooked aspects of its harassment policy" when it made the deliberate decision to hire Zaimont.

We learned that Arc System Works was aware of the allegations of abusive behavior and chose to work with him anyway.

Oof.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 23:40

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Q vs Q is simultaneously the best and worst mirror match. Just two guys with five billion health throwing random haymakers and taunting.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2020 14:29

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Chev posted:

Vtubers are not people. They're just kawaii Max Headrooms.

Theyre definitely people lol

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 01:05

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Nostalgia4Butts posted:

i love the ghandi match so much

Youtube Comment posted:

To be fair, there were a lot of frame traps, great reads, baits and smart decisions. The fact that they were all accidental shouldn't make a difference.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 09:06

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

to be fair jokes aside fsp kept going for dumb poo poo like 1 or 2 frame links. if he'd just downbacked and jabbed the entire game he would have won easily.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 09:16

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

https://twitter.com/TheBigHouseSSB/status/1329521081577857036

the world is finally safe from a romhack of a game released in 2001 that has never been rereleased on any modern console

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 22:26

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

MechaX posted:

My partner makes fun of her for her boob armor plate but nothing else, which means Kat got off so much lighter than the poo poo they give every other character from any other fighting game that comes on my screen, so Kat is still a victory there too

main aoko in melty blood

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 22:29

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

this is a complex topic that im sure the fgc thread is prepared to handle

tbh tho its weird how often people go 'my PARTNER' instead of just saying they personally dont like the design

then again its also annoying that this thread has replaced the words 'fictional female character' with 'waifu,' regardless of something's demographic or design sensibilities

in conclusion, eternal fighter zero

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 23:30

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

sexualized male designs are often very different from sexualized female designs, there are usually a wider variety of male designs, however there are also a lot of male characters in games like blazblue and granblue that are explicitly designed to pander to women and are successful at that but due to the dominance of straight male voices these are incredibly hard for people to identify or even realize exist, however the power dynamics of pandering to women via male characters are very different from pandering to men via female characters, however some people misattribute sexual female character designs in general to pandering to men when in reality those sorts of designs can also be a power fantasy for women, however 'its empowering' is also a very lame excuse a lot of designers use for titty designs, however titty designs arent inherently bad if they're presented as such honestly and without trying to make weird justifications for it, however it becomes a problem if every female character design is like that, however this doesnt mean that no female character designs should be like that, however we're very far from that being a thing that's remotely likely to happen, however every person is going to have their own individual opinions on what designs are 'good' and 'bad,' however that doesnt mean nobody's allowed to criticize anything, however marie rose's dashing normals are overpowered

think that covers everything

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 23:34

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

MechaX posted:

Uh

If this is directed at me the point of the story is that I do like Kat�s design and it�s an accomplishment that the plate is all the criticism they give despite the poo poo they give anyone else I play in fighting games regardless of who it is, which means Kat got off super easily in comparison (and that GBFV designs are still cool)

Oh no it's not really directed at you, I just meant in general.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2020 23:51

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dias posted:

i like how going dress up waifus once in a while always gets a long response from you

dress up waifus once in a while, semi-naked ladies are lazy design

Sorry, i do not listen to posters who use the sexist slur, 'waifu'

Also the entire point of that post, is basically the thing you said. Its fine to have some characters like that but most fgs over rely on that kind of design. Variety is good.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:15

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

I dont know what post you think I made because you keep saying things I agree with and then going 'mad?'

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:19

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Whats your opinion on marie roses running kick

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:23

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dias posted:

just historical precedent speaking, darling

Hey idk what your deal is but all jokes and poking the bear aside can you not do the whole 'darling' thing, whatever thats supposed to be. Literally been PM'd dudes dicks and had some dude convinced I was his egirlfriend on this godforsaken forum, it trips me out a lil. Sincerepost here. Make fun of me for liking Makoto Blazblue or whatever, go for that.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 20, 2020

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:31

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

This is capcom so 90% of the games in those leaks will be cancelled

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:33

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Real hurthling! posted:

Yeah not getting my hopes up for anything too far out in time on the list

However. I believe in captain commando.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:34

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

yo mamma a Horus posted:

they should put Nine from blazblue into strive, for me

maybe someday we'll actually get that gg vs bb game they hinted at a couple of times.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 00:40

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

MechaX posted:

So now that I'm home, decided to try Aoko in Melty

I 100% respect that she's just like "oh I'm fighting? throw on some jeans and a t-shirt, all good." in an anime fighter

She also seems pretty cool, and I guess she has the steins stuff Mu-12 did in BlazBlue which I'm also down for

Yeah she's a fun character to play in general. Pretty high tier, too, has some very inventive combos you can do and all three of her moons are good. In general she's a good character. Also she says 'sugoi sugoi' when she techs.

mango sentinel posted:

There's only one mildly sexualized man in Blazblue.

1) bang
2) bang's fundoshi
3) azrael

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 01:36

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

honestly granblue is cool because for lancelot's win pose they specifically asked all the female devs what they wanted lancelot to do in his win pose and thats why he smiles sweetly at the opponent and reaches to help them up, and the camera is from the opponent's perspective

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 14:40

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Ghost Leviathan posted:

The popularity poll for KoF has Mai be by far the favourite among women, while barely ranking among the men compared to the schoolgirl waifus. Women like a confident and attractive woman in an interesting outfit, it seems like. While there seems to be an idea that a progressive character design is a brunette teenage girl in murky brown clothes and no discernable personality, basically the female counterpart to the white male buzzcut that every game had to have as a protagonist for a decade.

Going all 'no, those women's opinions don't count' also seems pretty counterproductive.

To be fair they're right in that that poll is obviously biased towards people who are already fans of KoF, without any study on how she comes across to people discovering the series for the first time, but on the other hand yeah, she is, or at least was, distinctly, uniquely popular with women while not being popular at all with men. So there's definitely something about Mai that appeals to women, that's inarguable. But on the other hand, yeah, 'how does she come across to people who aren't invested in KoF' is also a point. Which is why I think variety is a good thing to want, since it means that people are more likely to take her design on good faith if she's mixed in with a variety of different designs, rather than hers being the standard.

Which KoF basically manages, which is probably why Mai was popular. Easier for the people who are actually fans to take her on good faith, too. There could maybe be a bit more design variety but like, Whip, Vanessa, Kula, Athena, Angel, Mai all exist in the same series and are in pretty different design spaces.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 14:51

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Extra Large Marge posted:

Women like characters with overly complicated command throws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2wsyvpruzA

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 16:14

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Oberst posted:

Things that make me horny:

- sweet vegeta ki blast loops
- simplified input controls
- the entire female cast of granblue

Hell gently caress it the male cast too!

do you work for arcsys

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 20:48

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

id also like to remind you that you were sniping at me for, literally agreeing with you. the post i was replying to and making fun of, was someone going 'but what about the sexy GUY designs!?' which seems like an opinion you'd also make fun of.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 21:41

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 18:20

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

I do actually think the way people use 'waifu' to refer to literally any female character, is sexist. Not because 'woman worth marrying' or whatever but just because its a way to use dismissive language about, the concept of a female character existing. It bugs me.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2020 23:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

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