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Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Pokken is the best new fighting game of our generation. Everyone Go Play it.

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Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Broken Loose posted:

what I recommend is to put Bella on Cerecopter for Fukua mixups and then watch footage of dekillsage (the best player in the game; one of his main teams is Fukua/Bella/Double) for Fukua ideas.

Uh, no, definitely would reccomend H Lock n Load for Fukua (or filia). Cerecopter is harder to get used to as a new player for mixups, and LnL is already the better assist in most cases + good coverage against other assists anyways. Cerecopter is good for Filia but as a duo LnL is the way to go for the neutral assist. Copter is okay for Fukua but not really the best.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Broken Loose posted:

Fukua doesn't need a neutral assist. Fukua has phenomenal neutral. Copter as a learning tool for the game is a great addition to Fukua because it's intuitive lockdown and you can do shadow/command throw mixups off of it. LnL is a great assist but won't teach this gameplay concept as clearly. Once giogadi is more familiar with the game they can more fully explore options to cover their weak points as a player, whether it's using LnL to aid with zoning or even if it's Excellabella to keep enemies vulnerable to ground-based mixups.


Fukua has good neutral on top level, but for people learning the game, Fukua isn't going to steam roll anything and needs a neutral assist about the same as any other character. Copter isn't a good learning tool because the last hit always makes conversions hard (especially for new players) and mixups in general are harder to grasp for people starting ou because of SG's options. It's a good assist that will end up feeling very meh when they have no concept of when to call assists, and unlike LnL there are a lot less times where you can call copter. LnL is the perfect "call it to keep yourself safe" in almost any situation including mixups cause armor usually blows up most every counter attempt from normal reversals (character dependent) or people mashing on assist so you get the best counter call. You're REALLY overestimating how good cerecopter is as a newbie tool imo, since from my experience trying to use it when I started out or trying to get other new players to use it always lead to people not understanding anything and watching the opponent fly away on the last hit of copter, where as LnL was clearly the assist that just made sense for how good and simple it is.

I would tell people not to use copter in very much the same way I would tell new Parasoul players to *not* convert off of throw with H Bike or tell new Eliza players to use H Servant for the grab despite them being of very great use. While on high level they have very good applications, converting off of them is something that takes a long while to get used to because of how awkward they usually are, and would instead prefer to tell people to use other more simple tools until they have a good grasp of the characters.

Ventana fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2016 around 11:38

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


How do I know Tekken is super popular if it doesn't have angry internet nerds fighting 24/7 about which is the best?

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010



This match is pretty amazing; not because of the 2 PW's (though it helps).

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Fereydun posted:

winner of the mystery game tournament auto qualifies into top 8 sf5

This but every tournament

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Well, yes Tekken 7 does visually look great. It's just funnier to bring up KOF14 when it looks (or looked) like a PS2 game.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Isn't the problem with X-Factor that it gets stronger when you're already losing?

I wouldn't even say that's a problem. I'd take issue with the fact that not every character gets as good X factor bonuses as others, which is just kind of lame when some big characters could use speed boosts to catch the faster ones.



Tuxedo Catfish posted:



You won't hear me saying "3S is a terrible game" because it's not as if parries lower the skill ceiling or anything like that, I'm just not interested in playing a game where improving organically leads you into a trap where now you have to consciously unlearn everything you know.


Basically this. 3S isn't bad, but it isn't really something I look forward to practicing to get better at cause of what you said.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Arzachel posted:

Doesn't KI and Skullgirls have hitbox viewer built into training mode?

I think maybe some other recent fighting games too, but yeah hopefully it's something more games do from now on.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


NuclearPotato posted:

Come to the Skullgirls Salty Suite; I'll be the guy getting planted six feet under by everyone (literally, if they're playing Squigly ).

If I get to play you at some point during CB, I'll play squiggly just 4 u

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Gammatron 64 posted:

Goddamn it. Of course it was Noel Brown.

Forget banning him form the Capcom Pro Tour, I wish him and Marn could be banished to the Phantom Zone for eternity

The case in the article wasn't Noel Brown. That was the on stream thing, right? This wasn't on stream I think.


Shiki Dan posted:

Skullgirls has consistently been the worst and creepiest FG community since its inception, which is really impressive considering its competition.

Ah yes, if only the Skullgirls players could be as gracious as Street Fighter Players, we could all stand to learn from the likes of players like Noel Brown, Marn and Fchamp.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


inthesto posted:

Has FChamp ever actually done anything morally reprehensible? I know he's a loudmouth and a hothead, but as far as I know he's never committed animal cruelty, battery, or armed assault.

(really you should all be referencing Dark Prince when it comes to the moral pits of the FGC)

Well, I dunno about you, but the repeatedly calling people faggots and etc without shame specifically to rile stuff up, even if it's just an act, is still crossing the line for me. There's no one concrete terrible thing that's bad (aside form going too far in the exhibition against KBR at Winter Brawl), just the overall attitude/personality thing that takes the heel image too far.

You're right about Dark Prince, I was just trying to bring up the recent cases though, and I dunno if Dark Prince has done anything lately.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Gammatron 64 posted:


I wasn't saying he should be banned from playing fighting games, I said he should be literally thrown into the Phantom Zone with General Zod and crew

I think Combo Breaker took the right approach. What he did was wrong and he should get punished for it and he does present a danger for other attendees, so a Ban is justified. But leave it at only a year, because anyone can still grow after these incidents and a Banning Forever won't incentivize that.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


idk if there's anything recent about Aris, other than just his silly commentary? He harassed someone a while ago, I met him with a group of friends that had 1 girl in our party at the time and he didn't do anything creepy to her. As far as I know, seemed okay?

Endorph posted:

It isn't something that's going to be fixed by Girls Only Tournaments, kicking Noel Brown out for a year, or pretending that Aris is a decent person now because he hasn't talked about assholes that he wants to lick in the past seven minutes. It's going to require a wider, cultural shift in the community as a whole, and speaking up when you feel that somebody has crossed a line, or even just said something kind of lovely.

I get the rest of the post, but it needs to be said that those elements listed above ARE a good part of starting said cultural change. Stuff like this is needed, but it's not the end goal.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


dragon enthusiast posted:

Here is when you should ban a character/stage/mechanic: when people stop playing the game because of it

Don't people quit playing street fighter when people start "spamming" projectiles, though?

No fireball characters allowed

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Shiki Dan posted:

Pokken is literally nothing but this.

Wait, Pokken shows how punishable things are by color? I know it shows colors based on what move types they are (throws are green, counter attacks are blue) but I'm very sure they don't have any info at all about frame data. That was one of my only complaints about the game.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Lemon-Lime posted:

The question should probably be "Pokken fans, how do you feel about your game only having twice as many players as a game that isn't actually out yet?"

Considering that it's still a really decently high number of entrants on it's own, pretty good I guess?

I guess the comparison is weird to me, since Pokken doesn't really feel or seem like Tekken much so I don't really know if there's much player overlap outside of casual buyers.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Jmcrofts posted:

Turns out smash players don't like other games either (this is from CEO Revelator t8)


FWIW that was Melee players, who are notably even more lovely than typical given Smash 4 players. Now, maybe the Smash 4 players could end up just as bad given they are cut from the same cloth, but so far I haven't really seen or met any cases like that and it's just Melee players who boo other games before their finals and etc. They both are still stupidly entitled communities tho.


brian posted:

smash is a fine game with some nice people in the scene but i would prefer if they didn't get added to big FGC events as there isn't enough time for FGs already at the ones I go to, at locals I think mixing everything is good for everyone though, just bigger events suffer when smash (and tekken in the uk apparently) are involved because they seem to consistently get aggravated about stream time while repeatedly lying about how long their section will take and over filling it with games then not caring about anyone else because the crossover is so small.

A lot of other games have gone over time over many events, and a there are plenty of other games that have taken just as long as Melee. What I would argue for is to get them to stop running their Double's tournaments. Those things are glacial and somehow even more boring.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Pomp posted:




it ALWAYS runs over time because their format is a loving insane timehog that only works for smash only tournaments.

Are you talking about the Round Robin pools? Yeah those should go away too

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Pomp posted:

No I'm talking about 4 stock on an 8 minute timer. 1 match can take as longer than an entire set for other games.


Oh, well yeah I can agree that it should be 3 stock 3 (or 4) min timer as well, though most matches don't really go past 4 minutes per single game anyways.

If that match is a particularly long match (usually not the case) and the set for other games in question was really short (mostly isn't the case for EVO, though for other Majors yeah it's a thing), that could happen, but by in large.....no?

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


inthesto posted:

And here I thought CvS2 was bad for taking god drat forever

As long as they avoid esoteric stuff like 4/7 grand finals, it should be fine.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Dias posted:

The one thing r/Kappa is good for: checking out stupid drama. It seems like it was Westballz, but some of Jebailey's jabs were directed to Leffen and M2K. Entitled top player BS, basically.

Not just them, but several complaints from all sorts of players like Armada/Hungrybox/Zero cause Jebaily also brought up the stupid things like floating Top players out of pools or asking for special VIP areas.

Though apparently the Smash 4 players were more kind in talking to Jebailey, just Melee players who are crying about it.


dangerdoom volvo posted:

i think its admirable they care enough about their game to go to bat for how its played. i mean the only thing top capcom players use their bullshit for is being late for pools

If you mean 3/5, that's okay I guess, but it's stupid to expect doubles to be run at every tournament. No SF5 player is asking for SFXT to be at every similar event or they won't show (I hope?).

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


fadam posted:

How is Pokken's online?

I think it's mostly okay. Some far out connections are rough but when I played Pokken before there was a lot of players around in general with good enough connections that I could barely remember the bad ones.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


At this point I'm glad that these devs at least get that FGs should be at 60 fps ideally and we all (seem to?) agree on that. The arguments about input delay with "Do you seriously notice the difference?" is just reminding me about all sorts of 30 vs 60 fps arguments of not being fully aware.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


dhamster posted:

Didn't realize it was a "thing" to cheer on each hit of a super. Pretty cool

Yup, still a thing for several games even nowadays for common combos/supers/things. It'll probably pop up for SFV soon if it hasn't already (never watched SFV with the crowd yet).

Zand posted:

refuse to emptyquote

breakers revenge
cyberbots
"garou"
karnovs/fhd
msh (not msh vsf)
puzzle fighter
"sfa3"
"st"
world heroes perfect
xvsf
xmCOTA

weeklies after 9pm cst Any day really tia

Why is there no KOF on here, that's definitely easier to pick up imo than cyberbots (which is cool and fun, but I found it super awkward to play at first). Also 3s

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Jmcrofts posted:



Gang Beasts is another one that's been in early access for ages but I hadn't played before. It's a battle arena game where your goal is to throw people off of cliffs or down holes, wood chippers, etc. The controls are super weird and clunky, but that's kind of what makes it fun. It almost feels like a QWOP fighting game in a way.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/285900/



Gang Beasts is even less of a fighting game than Smash, but it's extremely fun and everyone should play it esp if they like a fun drunk-party game cause of how silly it is.


Brosnan posted:

Gang Beasts owns but you need like 8 people for maximum fun and no one on the planet has that many friends.

It's still really fun even with 3 people, even if it isn't maximum. Everyone buy this game.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


dhamster posted:




Speaking of David "Top Round" Sirloin, he actually had a decent writeup on using bullshit to win games (if you can skim past the self-aggrandizement):



The only thing I learned from this is that I should drink red Fierce Berry Gatorade and then I'll win every tournament.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


In Training posted:

It might seem like a cop out but any game you want to sink time into will help because the concepts of like, distance, wake up options, maintaining pressure and dealing with pressure apply across the board.

No, this is basically right. Every game has it's own version of neutral and footsies to consider that never 100% translates over. Playing older games might help, but mostly it will just tell you how to play older games. Things like focusing on spacing and patience are things you just need to focus on from an individual level.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJt6b3LfT-E

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


brian posted:

Genuinely never been an issue at 3s events

Have you been to the Big E events that had the 3S side tourneys? Those definitely smelled. I can't even say it was all normal for Big E events since ironically the anime/poverty areas are usually where I didn't notice a funky smell.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


3S has issues but at least it actually looks and sounds good and no 8 frame input lag.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Double Bill posted:

Anime fighters on PC, Not A Good Idea: http://steamspy.com/app/452510

167 concurrent players, oh Lord. Even known bad game SFV peaks near 2k daily.

SFV being bad doesn't really change the people who bought it and are playing it. It's still the big thing and will always be way larger than anything else besides Smash.

For a non-SF game, that seems about average and is probably okay.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Baal posted:

After SFV I am happy there is a game developed for people where stupid bullshit is just allowed to happen.

This is more silly bullshit but I still love this moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1y0GHygLrM#t=7433s

Also bonus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TqPK8FIwSc

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


AnonSpore posted:

As a spectator or player I can't hear poo poo when I'm actually in the venue

I forget what major it was, but at one of them with in house commentary apparently Justin could hear the commentators and was deliberately trying to change things up to mess with the commmentators. "Justin has been doing great work just using that crouching forwar-oh wait a minute now he's playing around with standing fierce?"

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Zand posted:

this game is easy but there are secret killers in the goon fg corps in this game. are there prizes, PRE? give me a prize if I win

the prize cannot be skullgirls

Pls make it SG now, I'm pretty sure everyone has extra copies to give away anyways

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

my understanding is that at serious levels of play it's almost exclusively teams of 3

like there was one guy who top 8'd with solo Fortune once but this was back when she was the best character in the game by a huge margin instead of just pretty good, and also he only did it because the other two characters he was going to use had just been changed and he hadn't had time to practice with them yet

There are several other Solos who have had results in tournaments, and even now there are still some Solo players going strong.

Any character can be viable with solo at this point except for maybe Robo. Solos got really nice with them being able to heal with Snapbacks so that they can come back from pressure/resets better.

(I have several tournaments results with Solo and no one ever remembers )

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


No, there aren't very many good Solo Japanese players from what I've seen. There was that one Solo Peacock 2 years ago but I haven't seen him in forever.

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Reiley posted:

Is Squigly a viable solo character? I don't have the brains for team management but I really like Squigs and her stance mechanic.

She is, but it involves playing pretty differently than how she does on a team. The same can be said for every Solo, but its more apparent for Squiggly because you don't have as many free spots to build charge like if you had an assist. That and her reversals outside of charge/level 3 aren't the best so getting out of pressure will take more work. The upside is that Her Charged DP (especially if you have meter) is easily one of if not the best reversals which helps out a lot for a solo.

The big part of Solo for competitive/high level play is that you just have to be good, and commonly a lot of new players who aren't used to game play Solo. Most of the hangups I've heard from others who tried solo were like "I can't deal with pressure/resets, I get hit and then I get stuck in the corner and die" or "I can't deal with X character/assist/team, what can I do?", and usually in all of those cases it just involved recognizing situations better. I guess it may be obvious, but it's sort of the #1 thing I see all the time; that isn't to say it makes Solos top tier, since it's pretty hard to argue that having less options would make you higher tier, but they are certainly viable and can easily take games off of teams. Those same hangups I said before will apply just as much to teams as it will to solos, and unless you AC or reversal to safe DHCs, nothing will be different.

The truth is, Solos are just "scarier" to play since they don't get Incoming mixups (which forcibly give players a chance to block a mixup when they're losing in the corner) or Alpha counters, and assists just make things safer. But the risk can definitely be worth it, and there are times where Solo definitely can be very beneficial.


Pomp posted:

i really want to play skullgirls now

Late, but see me in sg

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


punk rebel ecks posted:



I don't recall seeing some, but anyone is a viable solo character except probably Robo. And even that can likely change due to the new buff patch she's getting, as she is finally receiving a reversal.



Uh, did mike ever confirm she was getting a reversal? I've heard a lot of Robo things, but a new reversal was not one of them. And...it'd be boring/un-needed if she did? Solo Robo's big problems atm are that her laser zoning w/o assists is very awkward, her head summons are pretty underwhelming (aside from Head mine), key parts of her combo strings doesn't function properly, and her Solo reset/mixup potential is all awkward and not great aside from jMP crossups. It's like playing Peacock (who also doesn't have great reversals) if half of Peacock's tools didn't work right. That's more of the problem with robo, not so much that she needs a real reversal. Robo with the right assists can avoid most of these problems, which is why Robo is fine on teams.

The only specific things I heard that was getting fixed were some of the things I mentioned above, but if he did something like make L Danger completely invincible, that'd be pretty boring imo.

Ventana fucked around with this message at Aug 3, 2016 around 13:20

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Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


^^^ Magnet being invincible would be okay by me I suppose, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

punk rebel ecks posted:

I also don't get the criticisms of Robo's "lack of zoning" with her lazers. They can be very effective as long as she is very mobile.

Also Robo needs a reversal because she is powerless once hit.

The lasers do zone, but they don't have great coverage and atm don't function properly (cases where they "should win but end up not working, particularly against Peacock). Her mobility is good but it doesn't really make up for how she can't really keep anyone out very well from those things. You can try to offset that by playing midrange with more buttons when you feel the opponent coming in, but most robos don't like her buttons either. She's still okay. Its not like she's terrible, but she is lacking and part of that is cause things don't "feel" like they are doing what they should, and that's what most Robo players are complaining about.

And being powerless when hit is the idea of the character, exactly the same as peacock who's only reversal is pretty weak. It makes for more interesting design, and I'd rather have the character have their neutral tools fixed to be good rather than just giving her a better invincible tool.

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