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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



is there frame data available anywhere for old SNK games? the 90s KoFs, Samurai Shodown, etc. specifically.

i've been getting back into retro fighters starting with SFII and seriously looking at things like hitboxes for the first time, and i really don't want to figure out which attacks are good by myself when i try out SNK's stuff. i mean, i will if i have to, but if there's a resource out there i'd love to know about it since my googling has turned up nothing

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Hace posted:

you'll find it on the SRK wiki most likely. you probably won't find frame data for the lesser played game like kof96 or w/e, but stuff for kof98, samsho5s, etc will be up there.

unfortunately i'm looking for the early-mid 90s stuff, i saw that SRK had the late 90s and onward covered but was curious if there were any obscure sites that had analyzed the earlier games

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



In Training posted:

i wonder why "sprite work is too expensive" is always the go-to line from major companies worth billions but all the "poverty" games are usually demarcated by their dependence on sprites, like Melty and AH etc. how does that work?

HD sprite artists are in very short supply compared to 3D modellers, and you can't really brute force sprite art with a big team of moderately talented people rather than a few very talented ones. any HD sprite artist with sense would know that if they were being approached by capcom to do a new street fighter, they could charge a lot of money because capcom has deep pockets. indie companies obviously don't, and the sprite artists still need to work, so they don't pay the premium rates that a big company would need to.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



somewhere along the line the mid-90s injoke of including akuma in everything morphed into official capcom policy even when it doesn't make much sense. there are definitely popular SF characters that would fit better into a crossover context

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



should have been dan instead of akuma so that he could suck at everything except the broken-in-context SF moves without anybody getting upset

Jazerus
May 24, 2011




holy cow!

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

so not only was it not the best netplay package but they were being soundly beaten by a bunch of hobbyist amateurs

rollback is relatively easy when you can shove orders of magnitude more CPU cycles at the game than it was originally designed for. none of the logic/rendering separation is needed when you can afford to literally redo the rolled back frames within a frame, graphics and all. the proto-fightcade work was legitimately impressive, but it's not even remotely comparable to netcode in a game that is already trying to push its host hardware as hard as it can

and yeah, i also had no idea that ggpo existed at the time, and this was an era when i was actually trying to play fighters online with friends. kaillera was the prevailing solution in the emulator scene of the time despite being much worse

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Aug 12, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I mean I'm not even arguing on any of the points about popularity or word of mouth or the massive marketing advantage that Capcom and Street Fighter had by virtue of, well, being Capcom and Street Fighter. I'm just saying the idea that any part of SF4's success coming down to it being a good or even technically competent game is ahistorical.

They made a worse game, with worse netcode, that looks uglier and if we accept your analysis as 100% correct, that just means that the ugliness caused technical problems as well as aesthetic ones.

you'll get no argument from me that a hypothetical SF4 with HD sprites and ggpo would be immensely superior to doughy zangief with delay but that wasn't the zeitgeist

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Endorph posted:

well kanos and i just gave very different opinions so now we have to fight to the death

Kanos posted:

Honestly the only point where I actually disagree with you is [...]

this is very gundam, good job staying on-brand

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



i literally can't believe that guile with family man sweater and kabuki e honda have so few votes

or that capcom is only bothering to put two of the designs into the game

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



any super animation that is more elaborate than original marvel vs capcom's super animations, is bad. if it freezes time for more than a second, it's unforgivable

sorry i don't make the rules, that's just how it is

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



the wrangler jeans are what give jimmy his power

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Nostalgia4Butts posted:

im so stoked for roshi tbh, now i need t figure out if i need to replace kid goku or ssgss geetz

you've gotta keep kid goku on a team with master roshi. this is an unavoidable truth

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Lemon-Lime posted:

"This isn't about unionising, it's about everyone coming together to negotiate the same rates" like this isn't one of the primary points of unionising.

yes but the discourse about unions in the US is so poisoned, especially in tech/games, that it's practically a dirty word for a lot of Tech People and Gamers. they'd rather come up with an excuse for why they aren't doing "the bad thing" while still actually doing it

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Thirteen Orphans posted:

That’s a shame.

unfortunately fighting game spritework is the most demanding form because the visuals communicating the hitboxes is very important, so to feel good a late balance change often must be accompanied by a redraw. spritework is reasonably priced for less-complicated, looser genres, which is why indie platformers and such can afford it, but it starts to balloon very quickly as the effort involved increases. there just were never that many people who could do capcom or snk style spritework in the first place.

in the 90s companies could be a bit lazy with it, reusing sprites across games even when the balance was different (see: alpha sprites in X-MvSF/MvC, morrigan in everything) but when you can get mostly perfect visual-mechanic fidelity by attaching hitboxes to models, the old looser ethos that surrounded sprites starts to feel bad.

personally i find models way less readable than sprites and can barely play modern fighting games but it seems to be the unavoidable trend of the genre. capcom's the only real titan making FGs and even they won't shell out.

DBFZ is where the genre needs to go if it's going to remain dependent on 3D though. out with the beef zangief and in with cel-shading

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Ghost Leviathan posted:

And now I want to play a Star Trek fighting game.

kirk's log cannon attack is OP as gently caress

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



personally i prefer o. picard. yeah he's missing the tommy gun but that just means you spend meter on summoning worf instead and his fundamentals are better

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



why is worf bottom tier?? he's a fuckin klingon

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



i can't believe they've snubbed lucky, heavy d, and brian battler once again

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Endorph posted:

title: haha sagats crouch fierce go chonk

description: sagat x ryu lemon, dont like dont read

can ryu do a shoryuken with his dick???

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Gologle posted:

Why are you saying "us"?

seems pretty obvious to me tbh

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



kirbysuperstar posted:

pre timeskip undertaker

ultra instinct john cena

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



kof98 is the most popular game on fightcade by a mile. sf3 is the only one that really compares. so yeah that one will probably get some sustained attention

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Smoking Crow posted:

in the game he's supposed to be the historical jubei, so he's the inspector general

but he's also living 150 years after he died, so whatever

historical jubei disappeared for like ten years to be a wandering samurai. based on his samsho 1 background, he is living in a forest on shikoku, not doing cop poo poo, so i think he just found the secret of immortality while wandering and hosed off forever instead of going back to edo to be a cop

also, personally my favorite star trek super is the one where Q summons a mariachi band

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



can someone explain to me WHY neelix is the only character in the game with a kof94 dodge and why it has an animation where he does a stupid dance with ladies in swimsuits???

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



drjuggalo posted:

I don’t care about that but I really loving wish the twitch monsters would stop talking about how neelix is barefoot everytime he gets a grab off

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



drjuggalo posted:

Hell to the yes because 14’s tier list had a fair blend of old and new characters representing the game, and nadj only had two top 8 appearances in evo 2018 and a single 2019 top 8 slot. She’s more like a fox where she’s top tier in practice, unlike leroy that instantly destroyed a pro scene overnight.

kof's roster will never be good while the USA Sports team is not included

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