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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


i started playing guilty gear xrd recently. It's really fun! Should I just spend 40+ hours in training mode until I can control my character then go online? I imagine playing vs ai teaches you bad habits (which i learned a lot of in high school playing x2 very casually)

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


exquisite tea posted:

Play a waifu character that you'll be okay looking at for hundreds of hours and whom you'd do anything to protect from harm.
i bought the game to play jam after seeing it during evo.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Natural 20 posted:

I've actually begun to disagree with this viewpoint.

Just play is a fine thing to say but broadly speaking most of the time it just helps with your defense. Broadly when someone is dominating you, you get so few opportunities for actual offense that you just don't get the practice there that you need to be able to make matches flow.

There's an extent therefore that I think you need to get certain very basic things automatically fluid before you start trying to compete.

I remember trying the former method for Guilty Gear for example and just burning out on the game horrifically because I just couldn't make anything happen. Compare to DBFZ and SFV where I sat down and mastered the basic combo routes over the first week before jumping into games and I found games that retained my interest a lot longer.

Zand posted:

this is wrong and your confirmation bias doesn't make it right

information without context is nearly useless. the context to put new information to use is created by playing.

expect to lose horribly playing anything competitive with someone who knows what they are doing. being able to practice and hone your skills with a more skilled player is an opportunity, not something to run from

dhamster posted:

Learn some basic stuff (anti air combo, ground confirm into KD or safe ender, an oki setup) and hop online, ideally against someone who will talk to you. You will get blown up at first, but if you set yourself some goals like, 'I want to hit with an anti air at least X times,' or 'I want to hit this guy with a frame trap, ' you will see steady improvement over time. Training mode works best paired with real matches, so you can get a better idea of the most useful stuff to work on.
I played some online (maybe 30 matches?) in random rooms today and it was 0-15, which was totally expected and fine. somehow afterwards i ran into an elphelt player i was more or less even with (we went like 5-5), which was surprising i was not expecting any wins. For sure training and AI doesn't prepare you at all except you have some idea of how to do a little damage (which was really helpful i wasnt upset by how much i was getting chunked by).

I'm finding it impossible to do half circle motions consistently on the controller, idk if more practice or just getting a stick is the answer.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Dark souls was a mega hit and you have to understand what your character is doing... it's not as incredibly difficult as the reputation implies but you have to do things intentionally. Binding of isaac sold 7 million copies and didn't really hold your hand... people just don't seem that interested in fighting games (compared to battle royale or whatever) right now in general but it might come around again at some point.

If a fighting game is a mega hit yes most of the sales will be from people who aren't that interested in playing "properly" but that's true of all games in all genres. RTS got big off of good single player content, beautiful production value and ingenious custom map creators, there isn't that predictable a formula for what blows up by surprise. Everyone owned Street Fighter 2 growing up and no one played it properly, game was just clearly wonderfully realized even if you didn't play correctly.

Mathematically battle royale is a brutal genre, 50% of players in fighting games win and 1/64 or whatever of BR players win. But that's what people want to play right now, just happens.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Aug 17, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The scrub fighter fantasy is that what the character is doing is representative of your "gaming ability" as both players have perfect information. This is why people get angry at "cheap" tactics that interfere with this, as they believe a game mechanic is somehow distinct from what the game is supposed to measure.

This is also where the mentality that having to practice is a design shortcoming comes from - its an obstacle to this measurement of "gaming ability". It's also why some casual smash fans get weirdly grandiose about it because they're not knowledgable enough to recognize what mechanics are actually at play in higher level play.

Average people, or anyone who's ever played a sport, can recognize that the mechanics ARE the game. The only people who don't are just a loud vocal minority who don't get it and trying to appeal to them will never work.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Visuals have always been incredibly important... When has a game that looked like poo poo ever been all that popular? MvC 2 is the default answer but the sprites in that game were a collection of some of the best ever (despite how jank the game looked in other ways).

The fun of fighting games for less competitive people is how it feels and looks to move your character around and attack. If you actually have no idea how a game's mechanics work in detail the graphics and animations like.... are the game.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 24, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


And Amingo! And Ruby Heart! All your favorites!

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


if it did well when it was re-released 10 years later, what does that tell you...


MvC1 was certainly the prettier game for sure. MvC2 was a little, um, punk rock.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


i keep getting my inputs stuffed/frame trapped (in GG) by better players because all i know to do is to try to jab between attacks when they're coming after me... is this the sort of thing where you just have to play a lot of each matchup to find out when it's correct to jab?


Also i downloaded unist and it's been pretty fun though I admit I've been abusing the auto combo a bit. There's a huge skill range on ranked (with me on bottom) but thats not surprising i guess.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I appreciate the answer, that was very thorough. I've played too many single player games in my life so I still think in terms of flow charts and optimal courses of action instead of potential options. For now I certainly need to FD a whole lot more.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Pomp posted:

FD is good but if you just try to FD everything without a plan you end up with no meter. Your goal isn't even necessarily to push them out, if you have good pokes your goal can be to create a whiff punish opportunity or force them to make a gamble to stay in on you, for example.
yeah for sure it's not a magic bullet, I mean it should be a thing I consider doing during a match and it just isnt right now (and i am often losing rounds with 100% meter remaining).

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


day 1 dlc doesnt really offend me... chrono trigger was what 60 dollars in the 90s? Acceptable game prices to charge havent really scaled with inflation and day 1 dlc is like just releasing an 80 dollar game instead of a 60 dollar one. It's not really a predatory business model imo, I don't know how it got that rep. It's so much better than loot boxes that I cant really be bothered.

i dont have sympathy for a company with money making deadlines too tight tho.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 28, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


oh I'd assumed you wouldnt be matched against characters you dont own (because I'm retarded). yeah that part degrades the play experience for people who don't buy it so is very worth criticizing, I'm new to FGs so i didnt understand that was the big issue.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I don't have a pro-dlc argument, there really isnt one. But one of the other reasons you see more DLC instead of expansions is that the expansions split the playerbase for online matchmaking (not a valid argument for day 1 dlc of course, which is just an attempt to charge more money to the players who care)

Online matchmaking actually makes you ask how to release new content you can charge for without making the game worse. Making a sequel can split the playerbase which was less relevant pre-online but online population is extremely relevant to FGs now.

Maybe there's just no good model for making money to add more things to a popular game unless you're dota 2.

(before anyone praises overwatch they're into loot boxes which is an even worse model for entirely diferent reasons)

No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 28, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The M Bison/Vega/Balrog situation still makes me laugh to this day

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


MechaX posted:

I was legitimately surprised when I played the story mode or whatever for the first time in any of these games only recently, and discovered that Merkava is loving sapient.

I... just was not expecting (mostly) rational intelligence from an unholy eldritch screeching bird thing with noodle arms.
You'll see that the other characters are pretty surprised too

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


looks like a high quality newgrounds submission

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Are hitboxes unfun? I want to move off of controller for something more tactile and that doesnt get slippery when I hold it for too long, and learning to dash with stick sounds hard (having almost no stick experience over my life). Hitbox seems like a logical choice in general but is it still fun to use? A lot of what I don't enjoy about keyboard is how cramped it is so it's hard to evaluate just off of that.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Reiley posted:

Why settle for twelve buttons when you can play a Real Game and slap so many more?

It's tournament legal, if you're brave enough to take up the challenge.
At some point during the process of getting this ready for sale they had to realize it was a terrible idea.

I wonder when it was.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Ultramega posted:

speaking of games that nobody plays I really wish they'd have never come out with with a nidhogg sequel and instead just focused on creating more levels and introducing color selection instead of a stupid loving fraggle rock remix of what was already a great game.
i couldnt imagine what you would mean by fraggle rock until i looked at the nidhogg 2 screenshots and jesus christ that is the biggest stylistic downgrade I've ever seen.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


it's spelled with 2 Rs if you mean the thing no one's thought about in 20 years.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Everyone has strong feelings on those things. It's where 90% of every dollar not spent on marketing goes in fighting game dev.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I don't think combos are a question of reaction time, it's just practice. If its not something you want to do yeah not much to be done.

26 hours in is still a beginner for a fighting game, but if you don't want to keep playing that's it i guess.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Sep 12, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Blue Labrador posted:

I had friend from college talk about how he listened to a podcast where the premise was some dude was trained from a nobody to a somebody in SFV, so I imagine that's a good place to look for how t otrain people in fighting games. I'm no fan of SFV, but I imagine it's pretty great for teaching fundamentals.

Also DBZ is great purely for the fact that it's attracting relatively normal people to anime fighting systems.

UNIST looks fun because there seems to be a lot of dope character gimmicks and the actual mechanical system looks to be very dynamic, but a lot of the character designs are loving trash (second only to BlazBlue) and tbh that kinda pushes me away
Once you play it you don't really mind. Chaos is pretty boring looking and Mika is um unfortunate but the rest are ok in action and they play so differently that it stops looking like a bunch of 100 pound kids in casual wear pretty fast.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Maybe the clientele of a game whose name is a pun on "schoolgirls" and whose main story note was that the girls' bodies were experimented on isnt representative of a broader population.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


at most 10% of the people who buy a fighting game tryhard in it (with a very lenient definition of tryharding here)

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I'd agree with your interpretation Zand that tweet is vague, but his previous one is less vague..

No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Sep 21, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


And open themselves up to a libel lawsuit? Like what are you suggesting this time?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


holy crap. I really don't want to believe any of that except the "bigger budget" part, I love gg throws.

Actually yeah that's bs.

a.) it sounds truly unplayable on a controller without mapping shoulders buttons creatively.
b.) the new characters are what a rando would pick up off of a story mode wikipedia summary (that man is not believable)
c.) Xrd's graphics/engine still have a ton of life, budget shouldn't be relevant given how little expensive stuff needs to be done

it's a good troll though. It rustled the hell out of my jimmies.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 26, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The most well-done part was the removal of jump install and R.I.S.C., that's so believable that you end up buying the rest of it.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Captain Baal posted:

The movie was better than any story mode that has been done for a fighter in the last 10 years
thats pretty sad... the only entertaining part was the last half hour or so.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 26, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


XX's was really fun, someone cared an awful lot. Well ok it was fun if you don't know how to play the game.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


it's all so convoluted and boring... the action looks nice but the decades have made the story way too big.

Here are some of the XX storylines:

Ky: There's an impostor who looks just like Ky and he has to figure out what's going on to clear himself

Eddie: Zato-1 is dead and his parasite has to find a new body

Jam: Jam's restaurant was burned down and she wants to find the culprit

Way simpler, less melodramatic, way more compelling. Imo. The plots fit the format about as well as non-tournament plots ever could. But this format is more or less dead these days anyways, there has to be a better way to do SP content that people find engaging but imo it hasnt been totally solved yet.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


it probably makes sense to play the game you like, yes.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


what einstein actually said was:

quote:

It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Those issues sound really serious and important. It makes me wonder if anyone on the team is truly passionate about cosmetics.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 28, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Xrd was a huge leap forward mostly because the old graphics were ridiculously old. Like GG used the same sprites for 13 years over a half dozen games, by the era of accent core the game looked like absolute jank if you weren't already into it. Comparing Tekken 4 graphics with Tekken 7 would be a more fair comparison.

Xrd didnt get new graphics because Daisuke suddenly had a deep passion, it was a huge investment and part of a strategy by ASW to make a new system to use across multiple titles (that paid off in DBFZ).

No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 28, 2018

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


AttackBacon posted:

The way you talk in universalities is really grating. I don't like skullgirls either but that doesn't make it an objectively unfun game. It just means it's not fun for you and me. Some people, like Tuxedo obviously, find it very fun. Your points would be a lot more effective if you allowed for the fact that the way you perceive things isn't the objective reality for everyone.
your first post in this thread is five days ago. The gently caress?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Resident Evil Fighterz

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The PS1 gundam fighting game was hilarious, as a strictly casual player. Would love to see that level of character design asymmetry in a fighting game again.

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