|
When I remember how awesome this series is I remember stuff from this game and Soul Reaver this most. BO2 is just so weirdly out there.KieranWalker posted:On the subject of the game, I find it interesting how differently Moebius comes across in this one compared to SR/SR2. Granted, you only see him through Raziel's eyes in those games, and this time when you meet him you're playing as Kain. I imagine he drops the smarmy nice guy pretense entirely when dealing with Kain because A) why bother at this point, and B) Kain sees through it and responds better to relative honesty. But beyond that, he's less... antagonistic than you'd expect this time around, and it's really quite difficult to tell whether he's working against you or not. It also helps that Mobius, being the dude what knows time stuff, knows that Kain has killed him and so he doesn't have to play nice. They both know they're antagonistic to each other but that doesn't really stop them from trying to use each other for their own ends. Nosgoth is a world of Chessmasters and really, who would turn down another pawn on the board? It's a really good example of smart antagonism. Just because they're enemies doesn't mean they have to hate each others guts (or let that control their actions.)
|
#
¿
Apr 22, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
And by the end of it, it will be more the former (Nosgoth's) than the latter. Because y'know, Moebius still dies.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
I also thought on the time taken for Kain and Raziel to do their respective chapters and came up with this meta theory: Kain is just on a journey to cure himself of his ignorance. Raziel however is fighting back against a world/universe that actively hates him and wants him to do it's thing in addition to figuring out stuff. It ties in with the underlying theme of the game at least, even if it doesn't excuse the backtracking.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
Yeah, one thing to keep in mind is that the timeline makes the most sense if you follow it with Kain/Raziel than without them because they don't care one whit about paradoxes and the game doesn't either (but they still happen.) After all, the green ghost guys attacking now is new.
|
|
#
¿
May 11, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
Except he is. Because he was calling attention to the statue in the most sarcastic way possible. He was basically saying 'oh boy I'm going to have to fight these statues later and it is going to be annoying. joy.' Only using him-appropriate dialogue. Deliciously overwritten indeed.
|
|
#
¿
May 17, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
"It's awfully convenient" likely refers to how the prophecy takes into account that either one of the heroes can win. Almost like it doesn't actually prophesy who wins. Almost like it's not a very good prophecy at all. It is a sarcastic statement about the irony.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Of course, another reason of why this fight is so tragic is that while it feels inevitable, it was also absurdly, simply avoidable. Raziel really has free will, he is the one thing outside the Wheel of Fate - but he's acting in accordance with it anyway. You can argue how much of it is "under the influence" but Raziel's become just a bit too distrustful and paranoid with all the manipulation for this to end in any other way. But it could have, and so, so easily... It's one of the popular great ironies with Destiny and Free Will and why Fate is an absolute pain to fight: start distrusting everyone because you're paranoid that they want to abuse your free will and you'll be even easier to manipulate into abiding by it.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
Raziel still isn't used to the fact that he actually knows more about what's really going on than anyone else in the series by now. He still thinks there are more answers elsewhere.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
My take on it is that the Elder God doesn't quite care who serves it as long as it gets served. It didn't care much about the hylden and vampire war until the hylden cursed the vampires away from it. Now that the Vampires are all dead though he's probably just like 'oh, you messed with them? Guess I'll just manipulate you lot into being my slaves then!' Also it could be that the Elder God was referring to Humans, since he called for Mobius after saying that. So it could just be a bit vague.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
double nine posted:(Raziel comments on how much it grows during times of war and chaos and how weak and puny it looks elsewhen)  Suddenly everything makes a lot more sense. Remember how in the True Histories, Raziel says that the vampires attacked the Hylden first?The Elder God was hungry
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
IT. IS. DONE. Good games (what's BO2? I've never heard of BO2 good sir  ,) good LP.Slightly Absurd posted:I love how they handled the dialogue in that. How even after all the events of the LoK series and the end of Defiance, Kain would still be like, "Listen to me, you little rear end in a top hat!" and Raziel still responds, "Go gently caress yourself, Kain!" Even though it was more like: 'WAIT I DON'T WANT TO KILL YOU' 'YOU HAVE TO KILL ME' 'NO' 'YES' 'NO I DON'T WANT THIS' 'I DO IT'S MY CHOICE AND WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN' 'WHAT' 'I NEED TO BECOME YOUR SWORD LITERALLY' 'THAT IS DUMB' 'IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO HURT THE REAL ENEMY' 'WHY' 'BECAUSE PROPHECY IS DUMB also i am dead' 'NO RAZIEL wow that is a giant ugly squid'
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
SovietPotatoe posted:I'm a bit confused as to what that whole corruption business was supposed to be about. I mean its obvious with the circle members in BO1 but other than the implication that Kain's ending choice was the result of his corruption it never seemed to have any effect on him, so I wonder what exactly curing him in the ending is supposed to have accomplished? Or was that the reason he couldn't see the squid? And if so, wouldn't the ancient vampires or whoever have seen it too, since they were never corrupted in the first place? It has less to do with Kain and more to do with the Pillars. Their well-being is the well being of Nosgoth, their corruption is the corruption of Nosgoth. Kain's original Blood Omen choice was rigged: he could either die and doom the Pillars another day (since they required vampires in order to work properly) or survive and doom Nosgoth to ruin. Curing him is a step to solving the basic problem, since if he's not corrupt, neither are the Pillars and thus neither is Nosgoth (the vampire's decay was a result of his corruption too.) As for the Elder God... No one really knew what it was before Raziel came along. It's likely that when they made the Soul Reaver and came up with the whole Spiritual Forge fail-safe they unwittingly were threatening the Elder God not just by making something that could actually hurt it but also allow them to perceive the truth about it. It's uncertain whether the story writers were going insanely abstract with it's Purification Power (since, technically the Elder God has corrupted all of Nosgoth) or if it's something more concrete.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
The latter. Once he found Mobius' Time Teevo collection he figured a couple more things out about what he had actually done.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2016 05:25
|
|
|
Also remember that while the Wraith Blade is a separate addition to him, it's still a form of his soul. So it gets sucked into the Soul Reaver too. Raziel uses it to purify Kain before becoming the spirit of the sword.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
Guy Fawkes posted:Another thing I would have preferred to be different was the role of the Elder God: in SR2 he (it?) started to turn from ambigouous helper to enemy; personally i'd have preferred to keep the giant squid in a neutral role, as a being which only care was bringing back the rightful order of thingh in Nosgoth, whatever the cost. In fact there already was an usable "Big Bad", Hash'ak'geek, whose role has never ben really explained: was it a collective mass of hylden souls, the being that possessed Janos or what? By the way, what ras the relation between the demons and the hylden: allies, rivals or what? Also I disagree on the Elder God's transformation into an antagonist. It's design is that of a cthulu-like entity from the very start which sets the precedence of 'this entity is not to be trusted, also don't try to fathom it you'll probably go mad.' If anything the slow metamorphosis it goes through mirrors/is a result of Raziel's learning and his finding out the truth behind Nosgoth itself. Finally the Elder God's nature is confirmed by Mobius' reaction when he could see it. If Mobius had knew what he had been serving he might not have been serving it in the first place. Hash'ak'geek, the Hylden General (or Hylden) possessing Voranus is only the big bad in that the Hylden are bad and want revenge on Nosgoth. They only reason they want that is because of the Ancient Vampire war, which the Elder God had a hand in. Considering how the Elder God treated it's previous servants when they no longer fit it's purpose (co-opting Mobius, Mortanius and manipulating Raziel to finish them off) it's safe to say that the Elder God is the source of Nosgoth's misfortune as long as it exists. Also the Elder God is an example of the allegory for the nature of blind faith/belief in religion: it's a dangerous type of faith/belief to have because it makes you very manipulable.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2016 22:32
|
|