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tap my mountain posted:They literally gimp your controls ever 6 seconds, it's intended to be an exercise in frustration. I had the same frustrations as everyone else but I really appreciated this part after the fact. The whole time I was just thinking, "oh ok one of these video game gimp sections where you lose all your poo poo for dramatic effect and then get it back 5 minutes later, can I just get to the next part so I can go back to fighting?" And then 2B gets the chop permanently by A2 (whose story I thought would just be another retread of the same events again) and 9S is revealed as the real protagonist. It really honestly shocked me, and I think the gimp section set the scene. And the title card right after was perfect. People are talking about the late title card from the start of route B but THIS one is where it's at. I feel like it should've been the only one to really drive home the fact that this is where the real story begins.
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Mar 29, 2017 01:52
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Pollyanna posted:Some more questions I've thought about after finishing the game: The real reason is that's just how the devs did it, but there's an explanation that makes sense in-game. The machines are obsessed with becoming more human; they imitate human actions while never really understanding why humans did what they did. This is a theme that is present all throughout the game. Every area's machine population focuses on a particular aspect of humanity that they think is most important. One of the first aspects we are introduced to is beauty and sexuality. So is it really strange that they would create a being that has a rippling six-pack or a butt that won't quit? Or that they would wear clothing that emphasizes those features? You'll notice that no one ever draws attention to anyone else's appearance, and that is because no one really understands the meaning behind how they look or dress. In the context of the game, you can't really say that 2B wears a sexy outfit because machines don't have sex. As for A2, I think she's naked because that's just how they did it back when she was made. Machines are shown to evolve, so I think it makes sense that YorHa protocol can change as well. In that ending, it is implied that the same things will happen again, because they are machines after all. Actually, that's kind of a thing that happens with human as well. But since that ending is all about the player forcing a more desired happy ending, I think they end up alright. Adam and Eve are the next step the machines have made in becoming more human. Like I said above, they are modeled after what the machines think a beautiful human looks like. Androids/machines bleed because that's what humans do. vvv I stand corrected on that point. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 20:18
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Grapplejack posted:Yeah, I feel like not being able to tell / it being a weird mixed sort of love was kind of the point and enforced the idea that they're just aping what they think human love actually is without really 'knowing' it. I agree that it's kind of mixed, but I don't think that they're simply imitating it. Rather, I think love is one part of humanity they've been able to achieve. Without things like sex or ego to muck things up, you might even say that they've surpassed humans. One theme of the game is finding meaning within meaninglessness; all androids and even some machines seem to show an ability to love that brings meaning to their ultimately meaningless existence. In the same vein, 9S ends up only being able to find meaning in hatred, the second achieved aspect of humanity, during route C. I think real love and hate being the only two things that transcend humanity is a beautiful contrast to the failure that machines experience in other aspects.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:17
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I don't know, you don't think having a legitimate 2B+9S reunion where 2B's like "I don't know what happened, the last thing I remember was <whatever>, but I'm glad you're okay 9S" and then 9S just snaps and kills her would be a worse emotional gutpunch for the player? I don't think the point of that part was that 9S is so far gone that he'd still kill 2B if she were walking and talking in front of him. It's a role reversal. 9S must kill the 2B clones to proceed just as 2B has had to kill 9S before. The difference is that the 2B clones don't have 2B's memories; it has to be this way because 9S needs a good reason to kill 2B, giving him the same kind of self-conflict that 2B had before. If any of the 2B clones had her memory, they would have no reason to fight 9S, and as a result 9S would have no reason to fight 2B. It would essentially be a happy ending at that point. That doesn't cover the case where the clones just talk poo poo but don't really have 2B's memory, but they already did that with 21O and I guess it might have been confusing, since the clones here are not meant to be the real thing whereas 21O was legit. I also think bringing back 2B in any legit form would have been a little hokey; part of what I liked about 2B's death is that it is truly permanent, contrasting how impermanent death usually is for androids.
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Apr 3, 2017 02:06
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Pascal selling the kids as weapons is the gut punch in and of itself. They aren't "vendor trash" weapons are the most important collectible in the game, and unlock a piece of content if you collect and upgrade them all. I think even the items being just vendor trash is appropriate. The sad thing is that the kids literally are just trash to Pascal now, completely stripped of all meaning to him despite how much they meant to him before.
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Apr 3, 2017 02:12
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Snak posted:I think Adam really like the idea of hatred, but he had no real catalyst to experience it. He was fascinated by hatred. But his death allowed Eve to actually experience hatred in a way that Adam never did. Just had a thought. 9S/Eve start out loving 2B/Adam, whose death provided a way for them to experience hatred. 9S and Eve: the two most human characters in the game, having experienced real love and hatred?
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Apr 7, 2017 06:25
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"Sad Bayonetta Lite" could be another name for this game, so I think it's appropriate.
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Apr 12, 2017 01:43
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Everyone in here acting like this is a character action game with twin-stick shooter elements when it's really the other way around. Hacking is fun and I won't hear otherwise.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:12
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Johnny Landmine posted:Finally coming up towards the end of Route C/D and I can say I'm amazed I haven't yet seen anyone make any of the off-color jokes that pretty much write themselves about 9S replacing his hand with 2B's. I guess the moral compulsion to avoid spoiling anything is more powerful than humanity's base urge towards dick jokes. Even the world's worst monster could not joke about that scene. It's that brutal. Johnny Landmine posted:Too bad there wasn't a robot named Camus in the village to tell him about The Stranger. I take it back, this is brilliant.
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Apr 17, 2017 09:03
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Route B goes way faster because hacking makes you an unstoppable robo-killing machine. I don't know why they even have any other models; YoRHa really should just be a Council of
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Apr 24, 2017 01:30
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Look Sir Droids posted:This is my GOTY and I don't see anything topping it. I played Zelda before this and was so sure that it was the GOTY. Then I decided to take a break and went into Nier blind expecting some mindless Platinum fun and ended up being blown away. I still think Zelda will end up winning the popular vote, but as an entire package, Nier surpasses it. Just these two games made March 2017 a legendary month for gaming in my mind.
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Jun 11, 2017 09:44
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CJacobs posted:The reveal that android black boxes are made out of machine cores was pretty brutal because being made of different stuff really was the last remaining difference between the two factions at that point. I thought this plus the part where the red girl starts fighting herself after multiplying too much were really interesting. The machines (and yorha since they are the same) spend all their time trying to be more human, and little do they know that they succeeded in a lot of ways; one being our tendency to divide ourselves and demonize the "other" side. It's also funny that 9S is extremely certain that he is superior to (and so more human than) a machine, which is itself very human-like behavior. And then you have the red girl who thinks the same way: that she is a highly evolved superior being. So is it the more human you are, the more arrogant you become? Or is it the more arrogant you are, the more human you become? It's like a positive feedback loop. I like to think that the pods gradually gained free will through a loop like this.
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Jul 1, 2017 09:31
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Devola has the better theme song (from Nier 1) and this is all that matters.
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Sep 30, 2017 09:17
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It's been 7 months since I beat this and 1 month since I beat Nier 1 and I still think about both regularly. Someone said this earlier in the thread but these are just very special games. It's actually kind of hard to go back to other games now.
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Oct 24, 2017 06:09
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Yeah but is the music any good? Since it has the same composer, I'm thinking of trying Drakengard 3 for that alone.
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Oct 24, 2017 18:56
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Kibayasu posted:I would agree if I get to be nitpicky and annoying and say that I agree that Weight of the World English is better with how the lyrics sound in conjunction to the instruments but the lyrics themselves are, uh, on the nose to put it generously. This is why the fake language version is actually the best. I think understanding the lyrics actually gets in the way of the purpose of the music, which is less about meaning and more about tone and emotion.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:50
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Nina posted:To note: I have immensely high standards for the characters you’re gonna put in a game that carries the Nier title. I’m just not satisfied with easy explanations for anybody, because Taro is not a person who writes easy characters Can you elaborate a bit on what you liked about the characters of Nier 1? The plight of the Shadowlord hit me real hard but for some reason I can't get myself to care that much about Kaine or Emil. I felt they were a little too exaggerated whereas most of the Nier 2 characters were more relatable for me.
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Nov 16, 2017 21:44
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Cymbal Monkey posted:Funny, I loved the characters of Nier 1, Kaine and Weiss had this great antagonistic banter, perfect foils for each other. Nier himself is a fantastic, wholesome father figure who would make Kant proud. However not a single character in Nier Automata, save for small moments with Pascal, manage to make me give a poo poo at all. 2B is your standard animu Rei ripoff and 9S is a stock whiney anime protagonist with little enough personality that you can imagine yourself as him. Whole game is packed with completely 2D characters. I think all those points could be said about Nier 2 as well. Having 2D characters isn't necessarily a bad thing though. I think the interesting thing that these games do is change your perspective on each character. The revelation makes them feel 3D even when they're not. I think my problem with Kaine and Emil is that they're not quite presented that way. They both don't really have revelations that change their character. They both certainly have backstories that color their motivations, but there's nothing that really changes how I look at them. In that sense, I'd say that they are more 2D than 2B/9S, whose revelations are both subtle and earth-shattering.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:49
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Nina posted:When the characters in Automata bicker they come off as just not being able to stand each other. Are you talking about 9S with 2B and 21O? That's explained with the 2E reveal. 2B and 21O have learned to avoid (or at least attempt to avoid) forming a connection with 9S since he's constantly on the chopping block. They are certainly cold to him, and even the few "warm" moments they had seemed out of character at the time, but it makes perfect sense to me knowing the twist. Nina posted:He’s a daft kid who grows up taking a detour through Taro-brand selfish streak of murder Did he ever really relish in killing though? I felt that he was just extremely single-minded in his search for Yonah, everyone else be damned. I don't think I could call him selfish. To me it's his most important character trait, as it's what makes the Shadowlord such a tragic and sympathetic villain. The rest you said is insightful, thank you.
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Nov 17, 2017 08:11
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Paul Zuvella posted:2B: "Robots are not people!!!!" The robots are people thing is just a setup for the real twist, which is the opposite: it's not that robots are human, it's that the protagonists are perhaps not as human as they thought they were. As for the hype that Nier gets: most games have a singular focus. You wouldn't expect a story game like Heavy Rain to have great gameplay, or a gameplay game like Mario Odyssey to have a great story. Nier is special because it is an emotion game, and as far as I know it is the only of its kind. So things like the anime nonsense story and the dull, sometimes obtuse gameplay are not really the point and are only there for support. The unfortunate thing is that not everyone responds emotionally to the same things, but for those whom Nier successfully reached, the hype is absolutely real and true.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:42
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Nina posted:When playing these games it’s best to think ”what does the scene currently playing out make me feel” rather than ”how does this make sense”. I love how the game itself is very aware of this. There's a cutscene during route B where Eve asks Adam why he has to read books when he can just download it straight into his brain. Adam says something like, "yes you can download it into your head, but not your heart". That is Taro telling you loud and clear that the story by itself is not what matters in this game. One other thing I like about the robots are people theme: each group of robots have their own "treasure" that they believe will make them more human. They are so into their own respective treasures that it seems kind of silly. It feels like the game is saying that they're all wrong and that eventually a treasure will be introduced that is the "right" answer. The answer ends up being that the connections formed between beings make them human. Turns out this makes every robot group right because they all form connections to each other in pursuit of their treasure. The only wrong answer was Adam's hate, because not only did he pursue it alone, he left behind Eve, his only meaningful connection in the world. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 07:32
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On the other hand, you should bumrush the main plot if you feel like you're getting bored. Better to actually finish the game than get sick of it and quit because you spent too much time doing sidequests.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:28
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If robots are not people then explain their rich oral history, a staple of human civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BdQcJ2ZYY
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Nov 26, 2017 09:29
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The sexy characters didn't bother me that much because the only thing I knew about the game going in was that it was made by Platinum. Remember Raiden and Bayonetta? Of course the main character is gonna have a great butt.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:11
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Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but man I feel like a text LP is kind of missing the point of this game.
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Dec 2, 2017 09:51
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I don't agree. 2B's story is already over by the time the game starts. She's already had her struggle and she lost. In a narrative sense, she now only serves to establish the world in preparation for the breakdown in later routes. She, a character that is resigned to keeping the status quo, is perfect for that. The "day on the job" vibe is intentional. I wouldn't like it if 9S was the sole player character either. Not only from a gameplay standpoint, but I really liked that there was this moment where you realize that 2B is not the real main character, which is then doubled down into the realization that Route A/B is not the real story. I realize that 2B doesn't receive that much attention in the game itself, but I think she's a character that's all about backstory. Everything we know about her, we find out after she's out of focus, either from the game or from supplemental materials. I don't think that makes her dull; actually, the way her story is presented is more moving in some ways. Taro touched upon this in his seminar video
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Dec 3, 2017 22:18
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Paul Zuvella posted:So one thing I'm confused about post game is how did 9s retain his memories after 'dying' and then uploading himself into the machine after ending a/b? He purposefully never uploaded himself to the bunker, which is the entire reason they dont get hosed by the logic virus. His body was obviously hosed after the fight so how the hell did he go from 9S->Machine->Bunker both retaining his memories and not being hosed like all the other Yorha? I assume that getting a new body is something you can do without having to upload your data, since that's how the teleporters work. So once he got his new body after the end of B, he just chose to not upload again.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:36
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That you're made to play twice as artificial padding. I'm not saying it's the best implementation but this is basically Taro's signature move: presenting a story in its entirely and then introducing details later that change your perspective on it. At least Nier 2 let you play a different character (I liked the hacking minigame so this was a plus for me) instead of literally making you play the same game again like in Nier 1.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:01
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DoNotFeedTheBear posted:In what way did the 9S playthrough change your perspective of the 2B one? Most of the machines' background stories and motivations are revealed through the new cutscenes. You also get to see what 9S discovers during the segments where he and 2B are separated. Their respective playthroughs actually kind of mirror their personalities: 2B's playthrough is straightforward without much backstory because she's resigned to doing her job and doesn't care, and 9S's playthrough has more revelations because he's super nosy and just has to know what's up. No Wave posted:I don't think there's much ironic or subversive about the game tbh, it's not like you're told to feel bad for staring at 2B's butt I do think the game is kind of meta-subversive because I was one of those people who went in only knowing that it was made by Platinum and thought it was gonna be Bayonetta 3: heavy action with a throwaway story. It turned out to be the exact opposite. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 23:53
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DoNotFeedTheBear posted:I thought you meant it actually changed how you viewed the 2B playthrough. In some ways, I do mean this. For instance, in the forest kingdom segment, when I saw the baby king at the very end, I just kind of brushed it off like "Haha ok, stupid machines made this baby their king, what a ridiculous idea." In the 9S playthrough, it's revealed that they actually have a reason why they're loyal to the baby. Or with Adam and Eve, I started off viewing them as "Dark Link"-like minibosses that mirror the player (a novel idea originally but cliche at this point), but their extra cutscenes made it clear that they are basically machines themselves with the same motivations despite having a human appearance (and that these motivations exist in sentient beings regardless of their appearance). I think a common theme here is that the enemies are almost more important to the story than the protagonists. They are set up in a way to appear cartoonishly villainous or simply shallow in a way that you'd expect from a video game boss, but subsequent playthroughs are meant to cast doubt on that. Nier 1 is especially heavy-handed with this, where you turn out to be the villain in basically every situation. Yeah, it's nothing earth-shattering, but all the little stories set the mood and help build towards the real emotional climaxes of the game. Nier 1 does this especially well, where the revelations that you are the villain to these third party characters builds up to the revelation that you are the villain to your very self. Nier 2 doesn't quite have that kind of thematic build-up, but I think the impact is amplified nonetheless. This is why I think that the multiple playthroughs are an essential part of Nier as a storytelling device. I do agree that the gameplay part of it still has a long way to go though.
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Jan 10, 2018 12:52
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arisu posted:The "intro" to Route C is one of my favorite video gaming segments ever. Especially coming out of route B which felt comfortable and familiar, being a retread of route A. The impact is just immense. It's really an all-out example of what makes these games good.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:36
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2house2fly posted:I stayed up late to get the true ending as well. It's the traditional thing to do, I feel, when you're playing a really good game to beat it really late at night I feel like that's the ideal condition for playing this game. At night, when I'm alone, it's quiet, there's no distractions, and I'm tired from the day and not thinking too hard, it's easy to really get into it. Then there's that extra push towards the end of the game that we've all done before and it's not really worth it a lot of the time, except this time the payoff is possibly the best ending in video games. It's immensely satisfying.
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Jan 25, 2018 07:15
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I just started Drakengard 3 and wow. After the tragedy of Nier, I totally didn't expect this to be a raunchy comedy.
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Jan 30, 2018 09:29
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Know Such Peace posted:Drakengard 3 is a bad game and is also incredible. Actually it's good. Mr. Taro, in his infinite wisdom, has taught me what it truly means to be human, and also that the bigger a tent I can pitch, the more pure of heart I am.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:56
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RanKizama posted:No, it's legitimately a bad game. The story is worthwhile though. Besides the horrific slowdown I wouldn't say that it's any worse than Nier 1. In that sense, it is bad but my expectations were met.
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Jan 31, 2018 03:28
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Nina posted:Nier is like the most effort Taro put into writing. DoD3 is kind of a trainwreck as amusing as it can be I thought we were talking about the gameplay.
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Jan 31, 2018 21:24
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Augus posted:Nah, Nier 1 distracted from its bad combat by mixing things up regularly with neat gimmicks and cool boss battles. Drakengard 3 is just an absurdly choppy hack n slash slog. It's a lot uglier than Nier 1 too. I actually like D3's combat better. It's faster, combos are longer, and the dash is much better. Doing 100 berserker barrages in a row in Intoner mode is satisfying. Nier's got the fist though which is pretty great. I don't think I'd necessarily call D3 uglier, maybe just more generic.
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Feb 2, 2018 00:09
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I just finished Drakengard 3 and man, that final boss. Excellent presentation as I expected, and it was tough but fair up until the very end where there are three notes you have to hit with no visual or aural clues while what seems to be the post-battle cutscene is happening. I had to look up a timing guide on Youtube at this point and I'm not ashamed to say it. I have a feeling the devs had a meeting specifically to think up every gotcha possible for this sequence. The ending wasn't really worth it and I still have questions but overall it was a good ride.el oso posted:I also did not know that the song lyrics were all just gibberish, which owns. This is one of my favorite things about the soundtrack. You get the emotional impact of vocals without having to worry about potentially corny lyrics. Leaves more to the imagination too.
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Feb 7, 2018 10:23
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2house2fly posted:I wondered why the music for the big desert multiball boss was so bizarrely epic out of nowhere (i don't think even the final boss gets unique music but this does??) then I looked up the theme on youtube and the title revealed why. I've got to start over and level up all those drat weapons this tims Is there actually any relation between Hegel and Emil, besides them both being big balls that live in the desert?
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Mar 14, 2018 08:53
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Literally just the opening sequence of Heavy Rain, but you play as Eve and he yells "BROTHER!" when you press X.
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May 3, 2018 21:02
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