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  • Locked thread
Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


kaschei posted:

##vote khris khruel

On a scale of 1-10 how confident are you in this vote?

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garthoneeye
Feb 18, 2013



I'm for voting Kash right now, posted even less content than me, showed up with an empty vote on KK, the only reason KK got heat D1 was from a posting gimmick that he dropped.

##vote Kash

garthoneeye
Feb 18, 2013



Also regarding the MMT Ecco slap fight I lean slightly more towards Ecco, but it's mostly a gut feeling.

I don't feel strongly enough either way to vote yet.

Token Female
Apr 2, 2007

If I hear the music...


Votecount for Day 2

Murmur Twin (2): EccoRaven, CapitalistPig
kaschei (1): garthoneeye
Khris Kruel (1): kaschei
EccoRaven (1): Murmur Twin

Not Voting (6): Absurd Revolver, CCKeane, Khris Kruel, Kumbamontu, SirSamVimes, tpink

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I'm still null-lean-scum on CPig and Ecco but for the sake of not tunneling on the same two people all game, Garth is pinging me slightly.

garthoneeye posted:

This makes no sense to me in a mason doc that has more than 2 members and little sense in one that has 2.

##vote infinitum

The explanation there feels weird - like I feel like town Garth would have just thrown a vote out, but scum Garth would have felt the need to justify it to make sure it looks town. I acknowledge that it's mostly a gut read.

garthoneeye posted:

I'm for voting Kash right now, posted even less content than me, showed up with an empty vote on KK, the only reason KK got heat D1 was from a posting gimmick that he dropped.

##vote Kash

Let's say Kaschei is scum - why drop a contentless vote on someone at all?

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005



Murmur Twin posted:

On a scale of 1-10 how confident are you in this vote?
merk told me to say 10 whenever this question was asked

but like a 4 down to a 3 after keane said something about infinitum in the mason doc

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005



I shall brave the dark waters of omgus ##vote garthoneeye

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


kaschei posted:

but like a 4 down to a 3 after keane said something about infinitum in the mason doc

I'm super confused here - I thought the masondoc was Kumba and Keane?

All the masonchat that I've seen happened on D1, and you put your vote on KK on D2 - what was the logic there, and what about the mason doc affected your opinion?

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005



Murmur Twin posted:

I'm super confused here - I thought the masondoc was Kumba and Keane?

All the masonchat that I've seen happened on D1, and you put your vote on KK on D2 - what was the logic there, and what about the mason doc affected your opinion?

keane said infinitum talked about KK and not garthoneeye in the mason doc. I am not in the mason doc. find the post if you want

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005



kk and infinitum got into an argument over not-alignment and I read it as fake pressure between scum

garthoneeye
Feb 18, 2013



Murmur Twin posted:

I'm still null-lean-scum on CPig and Ecco but for the sake of not tunneling on the same two people all game, Garth is pinging me slightly.


The explanation there feels weird - like I feel like town Garth would have just thrown a vote out, but scum Garth would have felt the need to justify it to make sure it looks town. I acknowledge that it's mostly a gut read.


Honestly, I was trying to figure out what the gently caress Infinitum's gambit could possibly be. I couldn't understand at all what it was supposed to accomplish or how it was supposed to work. Especially, since if one of them was scum they would be in the ScumDoc.

garthoneeye
Feb 18, 2013



Murmur Twin posted:



Let's say Kaschei is scum - why drop a contentless vote on someone at all?

Don't know. I'm bad at Mafia, so I'm just voting who I currently find most suspicious and giving what little reasons I have.

garthoneeye
Feb 18, 2013



Also, I'm trying to be better at not being a lovely lurker all the time.

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

I'm not getting a scum read on garth based on any of this. I think to date frankly we have not had enough info for strong cases on anyone.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


tpink posted:

I'm not getting a scum read on garth based on any of this. I think to date frankly we have not had enough info for strong cases on anyone.

is there anyone on whom you have even a scum lean? you're coming off as really wishy washy right now.

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

SirSamVimes posted:

Well that crept up on us quickly.

SirSamVimes posted:

Who's gonna be around for deadline?

SirSamVimes posted:

Why are you arguing against an Ecco hang when you yourself said she pings your scumdar?

So these are all of SirSamVime's content. Two posts about the deadline, and the last quote, which is what I find the most damning in light of Infinitum being scum.

The context of that post is that Infinitum and I we arguing about Ecco being scum and I was saying I'm not voting anyone that was contributing. SSV posts to indirectly agree with Infinitum and indirectly try to push Ecco for a lynch, while also confronting me and setting up finding me scummy...which is what Infinitum was doing.

##vote SirSamVimes

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

Infinitum pushed for Ecco and my head yesterday. I'm never going to advocate a lynch of Ecco until all the mafia are dead.

Garth's vote on Infinitum looks super pro town. Will not vote for him.

CCKeane is looking super town with the outing. Will not vote for him.

I think the scum are those advocating a lynch of Ecco on day 1. The biggest ping of my scumdar is SirSamVines

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

I think MMT fits the profile as well, and is likely the third scum...unless its kaschei or Cpig, who didn't post any content at all on day 1

assuming there's 3 scum

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

If there's any third party scum, my choice would be Kumba, for being silent in the mason doc

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

EccoRaven posted:

is there anyone on whom you have even a scum lean? you're coming off as really wishy washy right now.

I do not, for reasons I already said. Sorry if that makes me suspicious.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Khris Kruel posted:

If there's any third party scum, my choice would be Kumba, for being silent in the mason doc

Maaaaaybe.

I was thinking that we could have had a whacky everybody a different alignment doc, but I don't think Kumba is anti-town. I think it's more likely that it was two town and one mafia.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Khris Kruel posted:

So these are all of SirSamVime's content. Two posts about the deadline, and the last quote, which is what I find the most damning in light of Infinitum being scum.

The context of that post is that Infinitum and I we arguing about Ecco being scum and I was saying I'm not voting anyone that was contributing. SSV posts to indirectly agree with Infinitum and indirectly try to push Ecco for a lynch, while also confronting me and setting up finding me scummy...which is what Infinitum was doing.

##vote SirSamVimes

I'd buy SSV, yeah.

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

CCKeane posted:

Maaaaaybe.

I was thinking that we could have had a whacky everybody a different alignment doc, but I don't think Kumba is anti-town. I think it's more likely that it was two town and one mafia.

its funny, because I was totally going to push Kumba for the scum if Infinitum hadn't been modkilled...I scum claimed in a game once, and since it had never been done before, I picked 6 people for scum, and got 5 right. It was basically everyone that was like "I don't believe him"...which was pretty stupid for scum to do. Kumba fits that pretty well, but I agree that he's almost certainly not mafia now with Infinitum flipping

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Khris Kruel posted:

its funny, because I was totally going to push Kumba for the scum if Infinitum hadn't been modkilled...I scum claimed in a game once, and since it had never been done before, I picked 6 people for scum, and got 5 right. It was basically everyone that was like "I don't believe him"...which was pretty stupid for scum to do. Kumba fits that pretty well, but I agree that he's almost certainly not mafia now with Infinitum flipping

We chatted in the doc before the kill, Kumba was like " this fuckers scum" so.

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

I wasn't silent in the mason doc. He was referring to me being silent during the claim and ensuing shenanigans, because I was at a barbecue

Also hello

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

garthoneeye posted:

Honestly, I was trying to figure out what the gently caress Infinitum's gambit could possibly be. I couldn't understand at all what it was supposed to accomplish or how it was supposed to work. Especially, since if one of them was scum they would be in the ScumDoc.

I went through this same line of thinking and I was writing a post about it as the thread closed and the forum ate it

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

CCKeane posted:

We chatted in the doc before the kill, Kumba was like " this fuckers scum" so.

ok I will defer to you then

Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Sometimes I just want to eat the world. Ask me about my wonderful posting!

like, if you're gonna scum gambit claim, don't actually do it as scum...

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

i'm very tired and pretty but i'm gonna post some reads while watching the youtubes

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

Infinitum really only talked about KK in thread. He voted him (twice) and called out Ecco as scummy and nothing else. Not much to glean from him

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010



Votecount for Day 2

Murmur Twin (2): EccoRaven, CapitalistPig
SirSamVimes (1): Khris Kruel
kaschei (1): garthoneeye
EccoRaven (1): Murmur Twin
garthoneeye (1): kaschei
Khris Kruel (0): kaschei, kaschei

Not Voting (5): Absurd Revolver, CCKeane, Kumbamontu, SirSamVimes, tpink

With 11 alive, it's 6 votes to lynch. There is currently no deadline set.

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

I just reread the whole game and didnt get much. I agree MMT's posts seem fake. Her initial vote on Ecco for instance reads as a big overreaction to what was a list of early D1 reads that didn't need any more substantiation. I'm also having trouble making sense of how, after all of the back and forth, MMT ends up with a "null-lean-scum" read on Ecco. Reads as overly hedged after that long confrontation.

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

garthoneeye posted:

I'm for voting Kash right now, posted even less content than me, showed up with an empty vote on KK, the only reason KK got heat D1 was from a posting gimmick that he dropped.

##vote Kash

Using "someone posted even less than me" as evidence of someone being scum is pinging me really hard right now

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008





Khris Kruel posted:

Infinitum pushed for Ecco and my head yesterday. I'm never going to advocate a lynch of Ecco until all the mafia are dead.

Garth's vote on Infinitum looks super pro town. Will not vote for him.

CCKeane is looking super town with the outing. Will not vote for him.

I think the scum are those advocating a lynch of Ecco on day 1. The biggest ping of my scumdar is SirSamVines

Why does Infinitum's flip exonerate Ecco? He mentioned her once or twice, a decent way to distance himself from her publically.

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

Can barely keep my eyes open at this point, goodnight sweet goons

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Right now SSV and Absurd Revolver are both suspicious in my eyes for not really putting much out there. Admittedly neither one has posted anything for D2 and I can see that being a result of it being the weekend. But right now, if nothing changed, SSV would be my vote.

I'm cooling on Ecco and back at null on Pig - he's acting scummy, but not out of the ordinary for him.

tpink posted:

I'm not getting a scum read on garth based on any of this. I think to date frankly we have not had enough info for strong cases on anyone.

I'm starting to get a scum read on tpink - in my first scum game, I was very much afraid to commit to calling a town player scum and so tried to ride on "I don't have any reads " for as long as I could, and I feel like I'm seeing the same sort of thing here.

TPink - if you had to name a scummiest person right now, like gun to your head, who would you pick and why? Also, have you ever been scum before?

CCKeane posted:

We chatted in the doc before the kill, Kumba was like " this fuckers scum" so.

Not that I think Kumba is scum, but he said that after Infinitum scumclaimed? Wasn't that more or less a foregone conclusion at that point?

Khris Kruel posted:

I think MMT fits the profile as well, and is likely the third scum...unless its kaschei or Cpig, who didn't post any content at all on day 1

assuming there's 3 scum

I'm laughing at the idea of the scumteam going through the effort to coordinate a strategy where they all case the same people, only to have it all come crashing down when Infinitum chose to go rogue.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Kumbamontu posted:

I just reread the whole game and didnt get much. I agree MMT's posts seem fake. Her initial vote on Ecco for instance reads as a big overreaction to what was a list of early D1 reads that didn't need any more substantiation. I'm also having trouble making sense of how, after all of the back and forth, MMT ends up with a "null-lean-scum" read on Ecco. Reads as overly hedged after that long confrontation.

I thought her original cases were fake, specifically the one on Infinitum and the followup one on me. Going into the end of D1 / start of D2 I thought she was scum.

After more discussion/thought on it, (a) the degree to which she's fighting her corner and (b) the fact that Infi and Ecco were both casing each other makes me have to consider the fact that maybe she's town who genuinely thinks I'm scum, and (c) in light of more discussion I feel like the people who aren't really trying to case people (SSV, Absurd Revolver, tpink, CPig, and Garth from most to least suspicious in my eyes) are more likely to be scum.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I think MMT backing down on me is kinda scummy since nothing has actually changed in our relationship. I don't think I've posted in the game once since MMT's flip (distracted by the throne games).

But that doesn't change my opinion on her any so what can you do

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I know people are going to see this and potentially glaze over it but I would really really really like it if people (other than Ecco) can read over this post and make a good faith effort to understand what I'm saying here.

EccoRaven casing me through the game posted:

(1) murmur's vote on pig was bad as well. a meta vote about how pig wants to leave jokephase, like it's a bad thing? talk about fake cases.

---

(2) I never said I get a pass, your suspicion against me felt fake and opportunistic. these aren't comparable and it's interesting that you're trying to discredit my suspicion by making a false comparison.

---

(3) combined with your case on me I'm left wondering "does she really think I'm scum? or does she just want a reaction?" which is both unhelpful for the town but really convenient if you're scum.

---

(4) (this is why it's unhelpful for town but good for scum - you get to look like you're making a substantive case but immediately back down from it as soon as you receive pushback without looking like that's what's happening. this is scummy.)

---

(5) then why did you vote for him just now? you keep going back to your cpig suspicions while simultaneously discrediting them. it screams "I know cpig is town and I like this push against him but I want to be able to jump off asap or otherwise not be blamed for it if it works."

---

(6) it's not an omgus if it's based on content. That's a scummy way to dismiss my points against you.

---

(7) That's all well and good but why exactly? If you don't have reasons, then it looks like you only think I'm scum because I called you scummy (which, murmur pay attention, that's actually OMGUS).

---

(8) ##vote murmur

my case yesterday + her subtly defending Infinitum every time I mentioned my gut feelings against him.

---

(9) (click here for link to view this quote)

ook at this casual defense of infinitum

(the implied answer is "there's no way you could think that, therefore you're scummy for saying it," which defends Infinitum against KK's hunch).

it really seems like murmur is infinitum's scumbuddy guys!!

---

(10) I think MMT backing down on me is kinda scummy since nothing has actually changed in our relationship. I don't think I've posted in the game once since MMT's flip (distracted by the throne games).

The points that she is using to case me are as follows:

(1) my vote is on CPig is "bad" and "fake"
(2) my suspicion on Ecco felt fake and opportunistic
(3 and 4) my attempting to create content is unhelpful for town / convenient if scum
(5) my hedging my vote on Pig was scummy
(6) my calling Ecco's case an OMGUS was a scummy way to dismiss her case
(7) my case on Ecco was actually an OMGUS
(8) my questioning Ecco's case on Infinitum was an attempt to save a scumbro
(9) my questioning KK on Infinitum was an attempt to save a scumbro
(10) my backing down on Ecco was scummy

Why is Ecco using three different posts (1, 3, 4) to throw shade on me for this post? It was literally my first game-related post, made from a phone, while people were still mostly in jokephase.

Point 5 ignores the fact that I explained why I was voting for Pig right here and implies that I was trying to deny responsibility in the event Pig was lynched, which I wasn't.

Point 9 is a blatant attempt to twist what I'm saying to look scummy. She invents a thought process that never existed (that I thought KK was scum) and then calls me scum for it.

---

tl;dr - What is motivating Ecco's posts? Is she town, trying to discover my alignment? Or is she scum, trying her hardest to use anything she can to drive a mislynch on me?

##vote Ecco - I'm vanilla town. I feel reasonably confident that Ecco is scum. My preference would be that one of us is the vote today.

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


So now you think I'm scum, neat.

Your defense of my case against you isn't very good. I discovered your alignment when I read your posts and realized they weren't coming from a town perspective, but a scum one. You keep trying to gloss over it by saying "ecco fabricates a scum explanation!!", but that's just not true; if your posts don't make sense coming from a townie, but do coming from a scum, then to me that's the simplest answer.

Your vote on CPig was bad. You made it seem like a real vote and then backed down from it as soon as you received pressure for it, claiming "jk it was just for a reaction!" ("talk about fabricating explanations" - sassy the raven). You revoting CPig me-tooing a case was bad, because it really looked less like "I think CPig is scum" and more "this seems like an easy vote." Your previous vote and case (which you had yet to discredit iirc when you revoted) could easily have been used to justify your vote while me-tooing someone else to distance yourself.

It makes more sense for you to be scum than town. That your responses to my case use scummy dismissals (the OMGUS point) and keep going back and forth over its conclusion further show you don't genuinely believe in it. You were trying to bargain with me earlier by de-escalating, hoping I'd back down too (a common scum strategy when they realize they're being cornered and can't easily dodge it). When I tell you I don't you immediately go back to casing me.

It's just all really forced.

Combined with your connections to Infinitum I think you're the best vote for today.

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