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Funky See Funky Do posted:That's a huge misunderstanding of how civilisations work. They don't necessarily continue to progress towards technological achievements like ours is currently. We've had civilisations on earth that lasted for thousands of years that progressed at what we would consider a very slow rate. Sometimes they stagnate. Sometimes they even regress technologically. Eh, while the last ~200 years are unprecedented for technological progress, a lot of the "stagnant" civilizations we know about are just those that we don't have that good of records (like the whole Dark Ages poo poo).
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Sep 5, 2016 05:14
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computer parts posted:Eh, while the last ~200 years are unprecedented for technological progress, a lot of the "stagnant" civilizations we know about are just those that we don't have that good of records (like the whole Dark Ages poo poo). Also, the "Dark Ages" is a Eurocentric phenomenon. Middle Eastern and East Asian civilizations progressed quite a bit during that same timeframe. In many respects, Europe's exposure to these developments during the Crusades made the Renaissance and Enlightenment possible. The Citadel doesn't have any control over Braavos. Or Volantis. Or Lys or whatever. If they're stifling development in Westeros, why doesn't Braavos have steam engines?
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Sep 5, 2016 05:26
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Lycus posted:The exposition required to have other noble families involved in the coup would be so drat boring to most viewers. In retrospect, they should've cut Dorne, but Pedro made them optimistic. Oh well, what's done is done, though the least important and time-consuming storyline sure gets a lot of attention. And there is also the bit where Myrcella was also Tyrion's niece. It will be interesting, I think, to compare Jon's treatment of Mel with Dany's treatment of Ellaria. These are, after all, incredibly parallel situations, down to the person actually emotionally involved with the dead girl (Myrcella/Shireen) being an important advisor to the person passing the verdict (Tyrion/Davos to Dany/Jon).
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Sep 5, 2016 05:37
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meristem posted:And there is also the bit where Myrcella was also Tyrion's niece. That's an interesting point. There's also the wrinkle that Tyrion played a part in Oberyn's death, since it was his trial. Would Ellaria blame him for creating that situation? Or maybe commend him for killing Tywin? Or resent him for stealing that kill? They'll both feel strong ways about each other, is what I'm saying.
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Sep 5, 2016 11:08
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Xealot posted:Also, the "Dark Ages" is a Eurocentric phenomenon.
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Sep 5, 2016 15:51
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Things that don't make sense: I always figured the two were related. Having an atomic winter every generation that turns life into a scramble for survival and kills off a ton of the population would probably hold back progress by a fair bit. If you're spending all your time trying to make enough lemoncakes and roast enough capons to survive and then spending 5-8 years huddling in a shack while the Ice Monsters eat a bunch of your best and brightest then you're probably not going to spend much time thinking how weird it is that steam can sometimes move stuff and how people who bathe a lot get less infections. The only non-maester person who cracks a book occasionally is Sam, and he's widely regarded as a dead weight piece of poo poo because he can't help with all the practical stuff like planting, stabbing and impregnating ladies. Disgusting Coward fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 16:18
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meristem posted:I dunno, I rather like the position we're in now. If they cut Dorne, it would be just Cersei vs. Olenna on the ground. As it stands now, the war is personal on both sides, and, importantly, neither is utterly blameless. Cersei killed off Olenna's family, but Ellaria killed Cersei's daughter (who also wasn't a bad person, unlike when Olenna killed Joffrey, which Cersei even doesn’t know about). That's a good point. I can see Tyrion and Dany making a deal not to cause trouble with their allies for now, Tyrion with Ellaria and Dany with Varys, but I'd like to see that explored.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:13
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Another note on the whole Olenna murdering Joff thing: while she didn't premeditate the frame job (how could she possibly know that Joffrey would do the cupbearer routine ahead of time?), she certainly seized the opportunity to make Tyrion look as guilty as possible and stood by while he was put on trial for loving Regicide. But that might not be as big of a conflict as it initially seems. It makes sense for Tyrion to have conflicting feelings about the whole ordeal. Yes, being framed, publicly humiliated by Shae, rejected by his friends and family, and forced to flee King's Landing was the absolute worst thing that's happened to him during the course of the show. On the other hand, if none of that happened, he never would have served a Queen he truly respects and admires. He never would have seen dragons in person, or been respected for his abilities and character rather than just begrudgingly tolerated because of his name. Joffrey or Cersei probably would have had him murdered in his sleep if he'd stayed in King's Landing, and he'd be reduced to a footnote in one of the more detailed histories of Westeros, if that. Grateful might be too strong of a word, but if he did find out that Olenna was the one who killed Joff, I don't think it'll be as simple as Tyrion instantly wanting revenge on her for putting him through that. I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion was more upset about the murder of Myrcella than his own framing. Olenna has a more reasonable defense than Ellaria. "What was I gonna do, step forward and claim responsibility for the King's murder so my grandchildren could get turned into Lannister playthings like Sansa was after Ned got killed for treason? I stayed silent to protect my family, sorry you got caught in the crossfire, but that's just the way the game goes!" Just something to keep in mind for when these two inevitably interact again in the upcoming season now that they're back on the same side.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:15
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion was more upset about the murder of Myrcella than his own framing. Olenna has a more reasonable defense than Ellaria. "What was I gonna do, step forward and claim responsibility for the King's murder so my grandchildren could get turned into Lannister playthings like Sansa was after Ned got killed for treason? I stayed silent to protect my family, sorry you got caught in the crossfire, but that's just the way the game goes!"
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Sep 5, 2016 20:33
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:he never would have served a Queen he truly respects and admires I still love that this basically came out of nowhere.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:54
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:Another note on the whole Olenna murdering Joff thing: while she didn't premeditate the frame job (how could she possibly know that Joffrey would do the cupbearer routine ahead of time?), she certainly seized the opportunity to make Tyrion look as guilty as possible and stood by while he was put on trial for loving Regicide. Sansa was absolutely an intentional patsy with the necklace and all, so Tyrion would've been implicated anyway. But I agree that Tyrion wouldn't press the issue. Sansa might feel betrayed though, she got friendly with the Tyrells.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:54
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion was more upset about the murder of Myrcella than his own framing. Olenna has a more reasonable defense than Ellaria. "What was I gonna do, step forward and claim responsibility for the King's murder so my grandchildren could get turned into Lannister playthings like Sansa was after Ned got killed for treason? I stayed silent to protect my family, sorry you got caught in the crossfire, but that's just the way the game goes!" Myrcella though? She wasn't part of the game, she was an innocent pawn and her murder was an act of spite. I'll be very disappointed in the show if Tyrion brushes it off lightly. He's still a Lannister, and a Lannister pays his debts.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:30
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Lycus posted:Sansa was absolutely an intentional patsy with the necklace and all, so Tyrion would've been implicated anyway. But I agree that Tyrion wouldn't press the issue. Sansa might feel betrayed though, she got friendly with the Tyrells. Oh poo poo, yeah you're completely right about that. Though, at least they had arranged an escape plan for Sansa with Littlefinger. They just left Tyrion out to loving dry. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I still love that this basically came out of nowhere. I just accepted that because the other Kings he's been alive during were 1. Insane and Cruel, 2. Bullheaded and Selfish, and 3. Insane and Cruel again. So when he meets Dany and she doesn't instantly treat him like a subhuman joke he's probably like "Hey, alright! Hail to the Queen!"
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Sep 6, 2016 02:43
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When you look at it from the character's perspective, instead of you the viewer, serving Dany is a frickin' dream compared to Joffrey.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:01
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Blonde, loves to have people killed and thinks they are the rightful heir to Westeros. Then there is Joffrey...
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Sep 6, 2016 06:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Blonde, loves to have people killed and thinks they are the rightful heir to Westeros. Then there is Joffrey... The people getting killed are, usually at least, slavers. I don't think most people mind that much that slavers getting rounded up and sent into the sea.
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Sep 6, 2016 07:48
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Lycus posted:When you look at it from the character's perspective, instead of you the viewer, serving Dany is a frickin' dream compared to Joffrey. Compared to Robert, too. Robert wasn't a crazypants sadist, but he was straight-up absentee and despised Tyrion because he despised all of his in-laws. Just being a political ruler who is remotely willing to listen to Tyrion in good faith is probably enough to wind up in his top 10.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Tyrion would definitely be more upset about Myrcella. Even ignoring every other reason, there is the simple fact that he was warned it would happen, but chose to ignore that warning - and not for entirely noble reasons. Yeah Tyrion would definitely see the framing as a part of the game. Unless they get really lazy about it, he should not likely forgive Myrcella's death. He tries to be just, but he's not merciful by any means, and Myrcella was one of the few people in the world he loved (and who loved him) Tyrion killing the Sandsnakes would own
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Sep 12, 2016 14:32
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Bobo the Red posted:Tyrion killing the Sandsnakes would own Also a good way for a Lannister to gently caress over Bronn's love life once again.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:48
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Bobo the Red posted:Unless they get really lazy about it, he should not likely forgive Myrcella's death. He tries to be just, but he's not merciful by any means, and Myrcella was one of the few people in the world he loved (and who loved him) Tyrion's likely to die IMHO.
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Sep 13, 2016 05:53
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Wasabi the J posted:Tyrion's likely to die IMHO. Nah, dude is star power + comic relief all in one, you don't just kill that off. If you did, you just have the equally stoic and clueless roles of Dany and Jon Snow.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:49
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Pretty sure Tyrion is safe until the end. When they need to make the audience cry, they'll kill off Arya.
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Sep 13, 2016 07:05
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I think Dany and Jon currently have the most plot armor, with Tyrion and Arya just below them; none of them are likely to die, but Jon or Dany dying at this point would probably break the critical path.
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Sep 13, 2016 09:15
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I really hope that Davos survives.
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Sep 13, 2016 09:42
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I think Arya lost her plot armor as soon as she got back to Westeros and killed a recurring antagonist. Now that she's had a success that will impact other characters' plots, she can have a disastrous failure. I doubt she's gonna easily go down her list. I don't think Tyrion has plot armor so much as "ideal audience surrogate" armor. Lycus fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 09:49
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Lycus posted:I think Arya lost her plot armor as soon as she got back to Westeros and killed a recurring antagonist. Now that she's had a success that will impact other characters' plots, she can have a disastrous failure. I doubt she's gonna easily gone down her list. 100%. I'm anticipating a "cursed by her hubris" plot in some way. Taking out Walder Frey is the definite high point. But now, they can put her at a literal crossroads between safety and family, and being consumed by vengeance. If she dips south to kill Cersei, I'm thinking she might die. Lycus posted:I don't think Tyrion has plot armor so much as "ideal audience surrogate" armor. This too. The show's less interesting if he dies, not more. The loss of that characters' voice just flattens out the tone, and it's not clear to me how his death would raise stakes more interestingly than any other of Dany's allies.
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Sep 13, 2016 11:16
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Tyrion has no mother, killed his father, was found guilty of murdering his nephew, and betrayed his brother. He's in a foreign land surrounded by people he doesn't know or fully trust (other than Varys I guess). If he dies, other than harmful as the audience's surrogate, I don't think many in-show characters would be impacted in any great way. Sure, Dany would lose an advisor (one she's only had for a bit), but she's lost three others (one killed, one searching for a cure to grayscale, and another essentially left behind).
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Sep 13, 2016 18:32
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I hope he gets into another trial by combat 
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Sep 14, 2016 00:41
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Lycus posted:I think Arya lost her plot armor as soon as she got back to Westeros and killed a recurring antagonist. Now that she's had a success that will impact other characters' plots, she can have a disastrous failure. I doubt she's gonna easily go down her list.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:32
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Omne posted:Tyrion has no mother, killed his father, was found guilty of murdering his nephew, and betrayed his brother. He's in a foreign land surrounded by people he doesn't know or fully trust (other than Varys I guess). If he dies, other than harmful as the audience's surrogate, I don't think many in-show characters would be impacted in any great way. Sure, Dany would lose an advisor (one she's only had for a bit), but she's lost three others (one killed, one searching for a cure to grayscale, and another essentially left behind). Tyrion's death would literally impact every character on the show in a major way because he's going to be the only thing standing between Dany and genocidal madness when her coalition of rapists starts to fall apart when they've conquered Westeros. Varys doesn't have the charisma, Olenna has no interest, the other Westerosi are too incompetent, and Greyworm and Missandei are too deferential
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Sep 14, 2016 13:29
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Plus, who will be there to remind Varys he has no dick? I doubt Euron will be in the same room enough times to do it.
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Sep 15, 2016 00:54
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Filthy Casual posted:Plus, who will be there to remind Varys he has no dick? I doubt Euron will be in the same room enough times to do it. Comic relief bonding scenes of Varys and Theon going to the bathroom together.
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Sep 15, 2016 06:20
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Mister Perky posted:Comic relief bonding scenes of Varys and Theon going to the bathroom together. Also Grey Worm is there.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:09
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Xealot posted:Also Grey Worm is there. Grey Worm still has his worm though the other two have to squat. This show has a lot of genital mutilation. I think this is the season it all goes off the rails unless it is just two seasons of ice zombie killing everything.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:40
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meristem posted:Nah, Arya is now having a 'fall into the Dark Side' arc, same as Sansa (except that in Arya's case, it's about maybe liking the killing thing too much, and in Sansa's, it's about maybe liking the politics thing too much, and maybe having a bit too much ambition in face of the fact that Jon is the plot's chosen one). Having a downfall arc grants them, I think, plot armour until they realise how, uh, non-Stark they are becoming. (They may die afterwards, although I think it's more likely that they will get the chance to negotiate some balance between their skills/interests and the traditional values of their house. The show is coming to a conclusion, after all.) I've enjoyed the idea of Arya and Sansa having parallel Monkey's Paw wish-fulfillment arcs for a while. Sansa gets to be the beautiful princess/queen and Arya gets to be a stone-cold warrior badass. They just didn't foresee how awful the road to power would be.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:17
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Elephanthead posted:Grey Worm still has his worm though the other two have to squat. This show has a lot of genital mutilation. In a land where men had their cocks and balls removed, the man with no balls but still a cock is king.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:46
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Xealot posted:In a land where men had their cocks and balls removed, the man with no balls but still a cock is king. Excuse me I believe you mean a pillar without the stones.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:38
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The seed is strong.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:50
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Filthy Casual posted:Excuse me I believe you mean a pillar without the stones. A mast without the sails
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Sep 15, 2016 21:43
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"Emmy Awards 2016: Game of Thrones breaks record" http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37378317 
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Sep 19, 2016 18:53
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