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Ur Getting Fatter
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight



In the end the show should just do whatever's funniest, but I enjoy this discussion.

Wouldn't it make more sense for PP to license their algorithm? Just let enterprise use whatever implementation they want while using the licensing fees to finance your R&D and consumer-facing products.

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GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid.



Lipstick Apathy

Yeah but then you can't sell companies Boxes!
(not being sarcastic, this is real logic that I've seen people use & fall for)

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Greatbacon posted:

Pied piper is a loving compression algorithm, saving space (and bandwidth) is what it was designed to do.

No, it's main advantage is that it's lossless at previously unseen size. For a backup I'm not seeing how that would be as big a deal as in transmission of data.

Fiendish Dr. Wu
Nov 11, 2010

You done fucked up now!


Xoidanor posted:

No, it's main advantage is that it's lossless at previously unseen size. For a backup I'm not seeing how that would be as big a deal as in transmission of data.

2 words: big. data.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

2 words: big. data.

Once again, how does the box fit into this?

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010


Do you trust some cloud? I trust a box on premise than some magical cloud device. In box we trust

Fiendish Dr. Wu
Nov 11, 2010

You done fucked up now!


Xoidanor posted:

Once again, how does the box fit into this?

It doesn't. The data fits into the box.

Joking aside, the amount of money enterprises throw around for backup solutions in the form of a box is ridiculous. I've seen it. And if you can use PP's algorithm to fit more data in a smaller box, there will be sales. It makes sense from a "the stock value is the product of the company", but it absolutely kills PP's dreams and aspirations.

roffles
Dec 25, 2004


Xoidanor posted:

Once again, how does the box fit into this?

Employees could presumably access their companies' data through the PP appliance via VPN or something and reap the bandwidth savings.

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid.



Lipstick Apathy

Xoidanor posted:

Once again, how does the box fit into this?


My past VP of Tech and CTO both loving hated cloud, some of it rational, a lot of it not.

Arzakon
Nov 24, 2002

"I hereby retire from Mafia"
Please turbo me if you catch me in a game.


Had a meeting with a multi billion dollar box vendor explaining how they switching to a cloud based software model. "Why did it take so long?" "Some in the organization wanted to protect their revenue streams". Then I realized I was inside a Silicon Valley episode and looked around for the horses loving.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.


Could a compression algorithm like this theoretically be used to help process larger files quicker?

I currently deal with stupidly big data sets clocking in at over a gig for a csv and I can almost hear the excel reports that process this screaming at me as they slowly chug through the calculations.

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011



If cloud is not the only viable option for you, then your loser company is not growing fast enough

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
#ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!


Kin posted:

Could a compression algorithm like this theoretically be used to help process larger files quicker?

I currently deal with stupidly big data sets clocking in at over a gig for a csv and I can almost hear the excel reports that process this screaming at me as they slowly chug through the calculations.

Depends on the bottleneck. If it's transferring the files over a network or something, maybe (this wouldn't be the case with CSV and excel reports). But you'd need to decompress it, at least in memory, to do anything useful with it.

In your case your problem is that you're using the wrong tool. 1 GB isn't anywhere close to the realm of "big data", but the strategy for anything involving CSV should be to first get it into something that can process it more effectively (excel is not that thing)

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



SaltLick posted:

Do you trust some cloud? I trust a box on premise than some magical cloud device. In box we trust
How many years did it take SA to move to The Cloud?

JUST MAKING CHILI
Feb 14, 2008


Mad Dragon posted:

How many years did it take SA to move to The Cloud?

We're still on the way to the Oort Cloud. I, for one, welcome our new Alien Overlords.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

enki42 posted:

The real idiocy was actually explained super well - it's incredibly difficult to start at enterprise and move out to consumer. Enterprises are immediately going to push you in a direction that is CRAZY far away from what you would probably want to do if you were a consumer app, and in all likelihood make it complex and unintuitive. The features that they killed in order to sell to enterprise are exactly the sorts of things that get kiboshed when you start chasing big contracts, and suddenly have to deal with crazy labyrinthe non-sensical security requirements that differ from customer to customer, inability to leverage the data your app works with, intense suspicion of anyone who sells any version of their product for less than $1,500 a month, etc.

Plus you're swimming with sharks in that world, and being able to compress a little better is an afterthought feature compared to all the certifications, audits, case studies and consultants the big guys are going to throw at customers.

Add in the fact that enterprises take forever to actually decide to buy your product and even longer to actually pay. Once the decision maker agrees to buy the product, it could easily be six months before the cash is in the bank, and that could be fatal for a cash poor startup.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


I think they've overused the "Sarcastically say a bad idea, but people implement it!" plotline.

Edit: Upthread I posted that I hoped Tobo was too-good-to-be-true. I knew I was wrong when they first showed his Triangles of Success that actually making something people wanted in the do-later quadrants.

Golden Bee fucked around with this message at May 4, 2016 around 21:02

SLOSifl
Aug 10, 2002




roffles posted:

Employees could presumably access their companies' data through the PP appliance via VPN or something and reap the bandwidth savings.
Just FYI you would make a good product manager. Turning dumb bullshit into vaguely accurate sounding dumb bullshit.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Golden Bee posted:

I think they've overused the "Sarcastically say a bad idea, but people implement it!" plotline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaWPYOLuT8

ElCondemn
Aug 7, 2005
I claim I was poor, but it turns I had a single mother who could actually work a job so I don't know what it really means to be poor.


DrunkPanda posted:

Real talk, I work at a tech company and the CTO that was around since the beginning and basically invented everything for the company quit pretty recently, due to the sales people focusing too much on trying to monetize everything and destroying the R&D budget. I'm starting to think I'm watching a tv show of my life

enki42 posted:

Haha, I know the feeling. Except in my case I was the CTO who quit. This show is so shockingly accurate at times it's downright uncomfortable, right down to crazy "moonshots" teams. It's that special sort of uncomfortable where you can't even really mention how close to home it is without insulting some of the people who have obvious counterparts in the show.

I nearly quit watching the show this episode, it suddenly became unfunny. The line about the product being the company stock nearly made me cry.

gret
Dec 12, 2005

goggle-eyed freak



Seems like the most obvious business model for a groundbreaking compression algorithm is patenting the heck out of it and licensing it ala the various patent pools for h.264, h.265, etc..

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.

College Slice

The funny thing about their compression system is apparently it doesn't need client side implementation to uncompress the data, given their intent with the porn streaming and the dude that nearly died in the zoo. It gets compressed and sent out and... magically uncompresses in the browser.

Which means that Pied Piper should really set themselves up as an ISP, or partner with Netflix and reduce 50% of all internet traffic to nothingness for a few billion dollars.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.


enki42 posted:

Depends on the bottleneck. If it's transferring the files over a network or something, maybe (this wouldn't be the case with CSV and excel reports). But you'd need to decompress it, at least in memory, to do anything useful with it.

In your case your problem is that you're using the wrong tool. 1 GB isn't anywhere close to the realm of "big data", but the strategy for anything involving CSV should be to first get it into something that can process it more effectively (excel is not that thing)

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, i fully understand excel isn't the best tool for this (we typically use it as a test case before running it through our server), i'm just not familiar in the slightest with how processors handle/work through the data at a memory level and wasn't sure if there would be some nifty compression based mcguffin that would mean PiedPiper's application had the potential for much grander uses beyond data transfer and storage.

Talorat
Sep 18, 2007

Hahaha! Aw come on, I can't tell you everything right away! That would make for a boring story, don't you think?


Mortanis posted:

The funny thing about their compression system is apparently it doesn't need client side implementation to uncompress the data, given their intent with the porn streaming and the dude that nearly died in the zoo. It gets compressed and sent out and... magically uncompresses in the browser.

Which means that Pied Piper should really set themselves up as an ISP, or partner with Netflix and reduce 50% of all internet traffic to nothingness for a few billion dollars.

Apparently the client side implementation can be run in javascript or something.

roffles
Dec 25, 2004


GobiasIndustries posted:

My past VP of Tech and CTO both loving hated cloud, some of it rational, a lot of it not.

I hate the cloud sometimes because basically yeah our infosec guys are a real pain in the rear end so Jan the man really hit me in the feels when she was talking about privacy FINE WE CAN HOST IT ON PREMISE JUST MAKE THIS MEETING END

gret
Dec 12, 2005

goggle-eyed freak



Talorat posted:

Apparently the client side implementation can be run in javascript or something.

Then anyone on the client side can see their compression algorithm, no? I realize I'm thinking way too hard about a fictional TV sitcom.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



The compression algorithm runs on both fictional clients and fictional servers in a fictional way

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid.



Lipstick Apathy

Middle Out is the Compression MacGuffin that gave us a thesis on jerking dicks.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

I think Pied Piper does compression because it's narratively flexible enough that they can say anything about the algorithm and the layman at home goes "Yeah, sounds plausible."

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


That's the problem with writing technology; you have to bullshit around if you want starships to make noise when they explode.

& people on the net know more about compression than theoretical astrophysics.

Talorat
Sep 18, 2007

Hahaha! Aw come on, I can't tell you everything right away! That would make for a boring story, don't you think?


The nice thing about compression, and why they picked it for the show, is that the kind of improvements that they show are hypothetically possible and would be a big deal in real life too. We know better compression could exist so it's easy to say, what if it did.

Of course people can get hung up on implementation details but the overall concept is solid.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


Mortanis posted:

The funny thing about their compression system is apparently it doesn't need client side implementation to uncompress the data, given their intent with the porn streaming and the dude that nearly died in the zoo. It gets compressed and sent out and... magically uncompresses in the browser.

Which means that Pied Piper should really set themselves up as an ISP, or partner with Netflix and reduce 50% of all internet traffic to nothingness for a few billion dollars.

This is what I've been saying since S1 - imagining a bank of cloud servers and clients have to upload data to get it compressed... That's just such a waste of the product. As you mentioned, ISPs would love cutting their data traffic in half, but with the speed of their decompression, they could push PP-based files as the replacement for .mp4 video, .mp3 audio, etc. They should be making deals to create new file standards and create PP-based media players to handle them.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007
The Bartender

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

2 words: big. data.

I *almost* bit on this. Almost.

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


Phenotype posted:

This is what I've been saying since S1 - imagining a bank of cloud servers and clients have to upload data to get it compressed... That's just such a waste of the product. As you mentioned, ISPs would love cutting their data traffic in half, but with the speed of their decompression, they could push PP-based files as the replacement for .mp4 video, .mp3 audio, etc. They should be making deals to create new file standards and create PP-based media players to handle them.

Didn't they try to do something with a media player? But then it diverted into Gilfoyle and Dinesh making a scrum board of the pro's and cons of the stunt dude dying and Dinesh being able to gently caress his GF.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Holyshoot posted:

Didn't they try to do something with a media player? But then it diverted into Gilfoyle and Dinesh making a scrum board of the pro's and cons of the stunt dude dying and Dinesh being able to gently caress his GF.

SWOT-analysis.


And it was great.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.

etalian posted:

But, thanks to the whim of Jack and his army of salespeople—who resemble nothing so much as corn-fed date rapists escaped from a frat at some nightmarish Midwestern land-grant university

Their bios all mention playing Lacrosse, Squash or Rowing Crew. Jan 'The Man' did all three plus Field Hockey.

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."


Jared's line about imagining himself as his own skeleton might be the most pitiful thing I've ever heard. This show is incredible.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??


Grimey Drawer

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

Jared's line about imagining himself as his own skeleton might be the most pitiful thing I've ever heard. This show is incredible.

Yeah, that got me, too.

You just know that there's going to be a bloodbath somewhere in that guy's future.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Golden Bee posted:

& people on the net know more about compression than theoretical astrophysics.
The Big Crunch will be the most efficient compression algorithm ever.

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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.

Jared's bio said he rowed women's crew.

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