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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre


Sounds like the plot of Hikaru no Go, except instead of an ancient go master ghost, it's a computer (same dif really).

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oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Mr. Nemo posted:

But what about that time he helped Reese aim a high powered rifle? I thought it was going to be revealed that he had some kind of training, but I guess no. He's just good at reading winter speed or something.

Winter moves fast and comes around every 6 months.

Reese likely only wanted a second opinion on the 2 conditions wind and distance. Finch's father might have taught him a thing or two about hunting/gun safety as part of bird watching in a rural area. Reese might be also stroking Finch's ego to make him more courageous like every time Finch says he can't do or isn't comfortable with "XXXX".

This is the sniper scene you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4iWdqG3_A

Trabandiumium
Feb 19, 2010



oohhboy posted:

Winter moves fast and comes around every 6 months.

Reese likely only wanted a second opinion on the 2 conditions wind and distance. Finch's father might have taught him a thing or two about hunting/gun safety as part of bird watching in a rural area. Reese might be also stroking Finch's ego to make him more courageous like every time Finch says he can't do or isn't comfortable with "XXXX".

This is the sniper scene you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4iWdqG3_A

RIP Reese's ears.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

Trabandiumium posted:

RIP Reese's ears.

M82 Barretts are loud as gently caress. C'mon Reese, foam plugs are easy enough to keep in your jacket pocket.

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

https://www.twitch.tv/seebotschat

Watch two chatbots argue back and forth. Still better than Samirikid.

Eh! Frank
Mar 28, 2006

Doctor gave me these, I said what are these?
He said that they'll cure an existential type disease


Humbug Scoolbus posted:

M82 Barretts are loud as gently caress. C'mon Reese, foam plugs are easy enough to keep in your jacket pocket.

Maybe the invisible ear communicator thingies they always use double as ear protection?

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Eh! Frank posted:

Maybe the invisible ear communicator thingies they always use double as ear protection?

Finch is a bazillionaire and can afford to spring for eardrum replacement surgery every three months.

Much like I suspect there are a lot of anonymous donations to clinics around New York City for post-knee-replacement physical therapy.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


xeria posted:

Reese is the Fighter who aspires to be a paladin but skirts around the law too much to make it work. Joss Carter is the One True Paladin.

This is pretty true. I have a wonderful mental image of Shaw the Rogue who has crossclassed into being a fighter, thus specializing in both sneaking around and backstabbing people with warhammers.

AtraMorS
Feb 29, 2004

If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

I binged the hell out of this over the last week and a half or so, and thanks to whatever random goon it was that made a completely off-topic post in some random non-TVIV thread recommending the show with a "up to episode 7" thing. You helped make the back half of my holidays not a complete waste of time. I wish I'd caught this show while it was airing; it looks like it would have been a lot of fun to watch the show's universe blow wide open from "save a human" to "kill all humans" week by week. Hope y'all don't mind some random thoughts:

I really liked how they made The Machine more human by surrounding it with broken people. I don't know if I've seen that too often with AI stories that aren't about androids. It's like shortening the uncanny valley by removing ideals from the equation. Yeah, the Machine behaves in occasionally inscrutable, unknowable, and apparently inhuman ways. But so do Shaw and Reese, and occasionally everyone else (btw, Fusco's strangling face might be the most terrifying thing I've seen--in fiction--all year). It lets them make a real case for, "The god-like AI isn't perfect, but it's trying to be better," without it being such a terrifying thought.

In other words, it's easy to see where the groundwork for Westworld came from.

Speaking of Westworld, Jonathon Nolan is no longer allowed to use Radiohead's "Exit Music." It was awesome in Westworld. It was pretty rad when I saw it in this show (and I know that's chronologically backwards). But if I see him do it again, I'm going to roll my eyes, like, really really hard. "Welcome to the Machine" still has a play left in it though.

All the music on this show ruled though. The Black Angels might also be my new favorite band.

Finch is a great Fisher King. It's probably an overused archetype, but when it's done well, he can be a really interesting character, and they nailed every note there, right down to the Grail/Machine restoring his vitality.

Welp, them's my thinkings. Thanks thread.

AtraMorS fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 10, 2017

Jose
Jul 24, 2007





Kevin Chapman is in sneaky pete and looks like he's lost a bit of weight

Longbaugh01
Jul 12, 2001

"Surprise, muthafucka."

Jose posted:

Kevin Chapman is in sneaky pete and looks like he's lost a bit of weight

Yeah, I was like "Holy hell! No one told me Fusco was in this!" Though he's only in it a bit.

Everyone should watch Sneaky Pete though. It was great.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I decided to watch this show because it kept coming up in the Best of 2016 thread. After the first few episodes I thought it was okay but I couldn't comprehend having to go through even one 20+ episode season stuffed full of the crime-of-the-week procedural stuff that is the bane of Network Television, let alone five seasons of it. It was suggested I at least stick through the first 7 episodes and that was enough to intrigue me to keep going through season 1, and before I knew it I was caught up enough in the characters and the overarching story to suffer through the Network bloat to get at the good stuff (plus it had Bear, who is a good and pretty dog).

Just finished up the last season which ironically felt rushed by comparison (what a waste that ex-con character was) but I still felt it ended strong. I did dig the Machine's reasoning of,"I lost a billion simulated wars with Samaritan.... but now if I lose I die and that's gonna give me the push I need" but for me nothing ever quite reached the heights of the emotional punch that was,"Father.... perhaps I should die?" at the end of season 4. Though,"Are you.... Admin?" at the start of season 5 was pretty great too.

It's a shame we didn't get to delve more into the competing philosophies of Samaritan and the Machine (and it bugged me that Greer never got a,"Oh I done hosed up big time :stare:" moment) but 5 seasons of Emerson playing an idealist desperately trying to cling on to the hard learned lessons of his life and retain his morality (which also gave the Machine something to respect and even aspire to) ended up making the show worth it. Plus the central cast had really great chemistry, especially anything involving Fusco.



:3:

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Greer was never going to have a "Oh poo poo" Moment. Before the ASIs Greer was likely second to governments in his ability to gather information. He knew beyond a doubt what he was doing and gladly died for it without question having prostrated to Samaritan.

Being the opposite of Finch he had a goal rather than an ideal. Greer's goal was to advance and ensure the survival of humanity by building a higher power to directly take control without any moral constraints to do so. If it meant plugging everyone into the Matrix so be it.

The simulation where Shaw interrogates him shows how utterly unflappable he is. Even when dying he continues to be while being completely smug.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Jerusalem posted:

but 5 seasons of Emerson playing an idealist desperately trying to cling on to the hard learned lessons of his life and retain his morality (which also gave the Machine something to respect and even aspire to) ended up making the show worth it.

I go back and watch his "I have played by the rules for so long" monologue occasionally and it absolutely blows me away every drat time.

Ignis
Mar 31, 2011

I take it you don't want my autograph, then.




I didn't quite like Greer's death because it didn't feel organic to the plot, imo. I know it's meant to highlight Sammy's flat out disregard for his Decima goons but his death felt kind of wasted on that scene.

I do agree that he was never gonna have an oh poo poo moment, the man pretty much wanted to be subservient to a perfect ruler. If anything, he died a happy camper.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


I thought that was kind of the point. Greer's death [i]was[i/] a waste, but he was still happy to go to it, because that's the sort of character he (and Samaritan) is.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Oh don't get me wrong, it was completely in keeping with his character, I'm just mad because he died believing he'd won. Call it petty but I wanted him to live long enough to see Samaritan fail :sweatdrop:

Also, in addition to the ex-con guy's storyline not really going anywhere, I was irritated that the young genius from the Nautilus game who stole Finch's laptop never came up again, especially since the last few episodes had so many returning characters. Also did they ever do anything with that laptop beyond Greer saying,"Be careful when you inspect it"?

It is weird that I spent the first four seasons feeling like the show was utterly bloated and then season 5 (at least the last few episodes) ended up feeling too rushed.

docbeard posted:

I go back and watch his "I have played by the rules for so long" monologue occasionally and it absolutely blows me away every drat time.

"I'm going to kill you" is a hell of a line coming from him. Emerson really nailed the scene.

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013


Jerusalem posted:

Oh don't get me wrong, it was completely in keeping with his character, I'm just mad because he died believing he'd won. Call it petty but I wanted him to live long enough to see Samaritan fail :sweatdrop:

Also, in addition to the ex-con guy's storyline not really going anywhere, I was irritated that the young genius from the Nautilus game who stole Finch's laptop never came up again, especially since the last few episodes had so many returning characters. Also did they ever do anything with that laptop beyond Greer saying,"Be careful when you inspect it"?

It is weird that I spent the first four seasons feeling like the show was utterly bloated and then season 5 (at least the last few episodes) ended up feeling too rushed.

They didn't even know it was cancelled until during season 5 filming, as I recall. Part of the rush came from trying to wrap up storylines, I think the Great Filter may have been something Samaritan had foreseen and was something The Machine would have to deal with. Like how Ben went a bit nuts towards the end but we never saw his dark side in a post-Samaritan world which was probably a story arc for season 6.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Oh I didn't know that, I just assumed they knew going in that season 5 was the end. That probably explains why the first 6-7 episodes feel roughly the same pace as the previous 4 seasons and then things suddenly ramp up.

While there is probably interesting stuff to be dealt with in a post-Samaritan world I do think that ending with Samaritan's defeat was the right call.

I wonder if Control ever got out of that hole.... :ohdear:

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


Jerusalem posted:

Oh I didn't know that, I just assumed they knew going in that season 5 was the end.

No, they kind of did; they announced at Comic-Con that year that they were "dropping the mic" at the end of that 13-episode run. They didn't know know, but they could read the tea leaves.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005


I thought it was that they knew that season 5 was going to be the end (like, without them being outright told) but that they didn't know it was only going to be 13 episodes and not 22 until pretty late and so that's why it felt so rushed.

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE



The major thing holding s5 from being the best season of the show is the fact that CBS still mandated a certain amount of number of the week episodes with little to no serialization, and kept them from knowing if 13 eps were all they had or if they would get a full season until over half the season was shot. That's why the pace of S5 is deliberate until shaw comes back and then just goes full on plot crazy mode because they had to wrap everything up FAST. I think 2 or 3 more fully serialized episodes would have been perfect to let the full crew breathe a bit and flesh out the Blackwell stuff so he doesn't just end up being a complete waste of time.

Still I'm very happy you caught up Jeru, I always thought this show would appeal to you when I saw you post about optimistic sci fi in the DW threads.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Zaggitz posted:

I always thought this show would appeal to you when I saw you post about optimistic sci fi in the DW threads.

That's why I loved the episode where they guess (I don't think it's ever really specifically confirmed) that the Machine wanted them to kill that congressman. Harold, despite knowing all the horror and misery that leaving him alive will unleash, just refuses to do it. I can't remember if it happens before or after the flashback episode where Harold teaches the Machine chess and explains why he doesn't like the game, but it was just perfectly handled.

Which also makes Greer's final "For a genius you are a lousy chess player, Mr. Finch" taunt all the better, because Greer is playing chess but Finch is playing a far more complicated and difficult game and he loving wins it :hellyeah:

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Jerusalem posted:

I wonder if Control ever got out of that hole.... :ohdear:

I half recall them making noise about having wanted to get the actress back for one more episode but they couldn't make the scheduling work or something.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


Jerusalem posted:

Also, in addition to the ex-con guy's storyline not really going anywhere, I was irritated that the young genius from the Nautilus game who stole Finch's laptop never came up again, especially since the last few episodes had so many returning characters. Also did they ever do anything with that laptop beyond Greer saying,"Be careful when you inspect it"?

I haven't rewatched the show since it ended (I really should do that), but I think the nautilus shell girl was kind of intended to serve the role that ex-con was introduced for (recruited by Samaritan, but still basically a good person that Team Machine could convince to work for them on the inside). But instead she never shows up again, the ex-con gets introduced and flirts with that storyline, then it all goes nowhere and gets dropped.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


WarLocke posted:

I haven't rewatched the show since it ended (I really should do that), but I think the nautilus shell girl was kind of intended to serve the role that ex-con was introduced for (recruited by Samaritan, but still basically a good person that Team Machine could convince to work for them on the inside). But instead she never shows up again, the ex-con gets introduced and flirts with that storyline, then it all goes nowhere and gets dropped.

Ehhh, I think Blackwell was introduced more as a parallel to Reese, to show how Samaritan corrupts through its demand of unquestioning loyalty while The Machine heals through its challenge to protect the innocent. (Samaritan agents basically recruit him through the same speech Finch gives Reese, they practically put a big blinking neon sign over it.) But yeah, in order to get the most out of that idea, it needed a few more episodes to cook, so it could further detail the compromises Blackwell makes.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


DivisionPost posted:

Ehhh, I think Blackwell was introduced more as a parallel to Reese, to show how Samaritan corrupts through its demand of unquestioning loyalty while The Machine heals through its challenge to protect the innocent. (Samaritan agents basically recruit him through the same speech Finch gives Reese, they practically put a big blinking neon sign over it.) But yeah, in order to get the most out of that idea, it needed a few more episodes to cook, so it could further detail the compromises Blackwell makes.

Honestly, I kind of feel like it could have been both if it had had more time to simmer.

Ignis
Mar 31, 2011

I take it you don't want my autograph, then.




:same:

He kind of went from a somewhat creeped out recruit to full blown acolyte in a couple of episodes. I think they could've made him work on a full season or at the very least a third of a full season.

Mukaikubo
Mar 14, 2006

"You treat her like a lady... and she'll always bring you home."


Jerusalem posted:

That's why I loved the episode where they guess (I don't think it's ever really specifically confirmed) that the Machine wanted them to kill that congressman. Harold, despite knowing all the horror and misery that leaving him alive will unleash, just refuses to do it. I can't remember if it happens before or after the flashback episode where Harold teaches the Machine chess and explains why he doesn't like the game, but it was just perfectly handled.

Which also makes Greer's final "For a genius you are a lousy chess player, Mr. Finch" taunt all the better, because Greer is playing chess but Finch is playing a far more complicated and difficult game and he loving wins it :hellyeah:

And I would also like to pop in with a requisite "The music selection on this show is unreal-great", linking the music that plays as they're fleeing after Harold's no-kill decision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrulQAZq7Y8

(Pick it up, pick it all up.
And start again.
You've got a second chance,
You could go home.
Escape it all.
It's just irrelevant.)

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


Mukaikubo posted:

And I would also like to pop in with a requisite "The music selection on this show is unreal-great"

Whenever I'm trying to get someone to try the show, I link them to this "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" mashup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhR7jZcufzI

It doesn't hit as hard as it would if you don't know the context of each scene, but there's enough action there to hook people in my experience.

Plus it's just a loving amazing song.

e: And as for just good scenes in general, the end of the fourth episode 'Cura Te Ipsum' is when I could tell that the show was gonna be more than a simple procedural:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MNDqPJZgo

That clip is even better in hindsight, when you know more about Reese.

WarLocke fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 25, 2017

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

Jerusalem posted:

That's why I loved the episode where they guess (I don't think it's ever really specifically confirmed) that the Machine wanted them to kill that congressman. Harold, despite knowing all the horror and misery that leaving him alive will unleash, just refuses to do it. I can't remember if it happens before or after the flashback episode where Harold teaches the Machine chess and explains why he doesn't like the game, but it was just perfectly handled.

Which also makes Greer's final "For a genius you are a lousy chess player, Mr. Finch" taunt all the better, because Greer is playing chess but Finch is playing a far more complicated and difficult game and he loving wins it :hellyeah:

I thought they stated outright that the Machine couldn't make the decision so it deferred to Finch.

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JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

V-Men posted:

I thought they stated outright that the Machine couldn't make the decision so it deferred to Finch.

The machine was stuck in a dilemma because "My goal is to stop killings" led to "killing this person would stop a LOT of killings". So, it just sent the team out to work out the details for themselves and choose the best course of action. In a way it is not that the Machine could not make the choice, it was just that she would not, and needed her mentor to show the right choice in the situation.

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