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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Is this show good?

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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Deakul posted:

The first season is very rough but I'd say it picks up by the last 5 episodes and pretty much never lets up.

Oh, really? 'Cause I heard it sucks.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Maybe I'll give it a shot...how does it compare to Heroes?

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Seriously, how does it compare to Heroes? That's my favorite TV show. Third season was a bit poor though.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

raditts posted:

It's total poo poo, so it would probably be right up your alley

I feel like you are being unnecessarily aggressive ("aggro"). I am just here to ask questions about if it is good or not, like my favorite TV shows Heroes, The Walking Dead, and The 100.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

V-Men posted:

You have to understand, it's just that when you ask how Person of Interest compares to Heroes, it's like going in to The Wire thread and asking if it is it like Law and Order.

Isn't that just comparing two decent but flawed tv shows? Seems pretty appropriate, to me.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

flatluigi posted:

Hey guys that show you like is bad!

Gotcha!

What show are you talking about? I'm confused, here. Can you explain further?

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Zaggitz posted:

A super computer made of PS3's is literally a real thing that the US army made. The cell processor is designed in such a way to accommodate such a system if enough of them are paired together. It' an extremely deep cut but an extremely legit one that is completely logical.

Not only that but a huge plot point of the episode was how current-gen PCs are infected with replicating malware from Samaritan.

It was a genius solution on both levels, and shows that the show did its homework by Root pointing out that they're last-gen and, hence, uninfected.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Also, for reference, Folding@home is literally exactly what the team ends up using to uncompress the Machine (distributed computing project based off software installed on client systems all working together to simultaneously process enormous computational systems) and a Big Thing back in the late 2000s/early 2010s was installing it on PS3s and running it from home, partially because everyone owned a PS3 and partially because the structure of its processor allowed for certain computations to be done much much faster then other currently-available processors on the market at the time.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

raditts posted:

For me it all seemed plausible except for "IT'S DECOMPRESSING TOO FAST OUR SYSTEMS CAN'T HANDLE IT!" *hardware sparks, catches fire*

Is there something legit to that part or was that :techno:

I mean you can theorycraft something about software overclocking hardware creating catastrophic cascading system failure, but no not really.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

I dunno if most of you are aware, but there's a popular internet project titled Chronologically LOST where a dude went around and edited LOST to be in, uh, chronological order. After POI is all done I'd like to see how the same thing works with this show, it'd be pretty interesting to see a chronological version of the program.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Zaggitz posted:

Taraji left because of how hectic 22/23 ep seasons can get on the type of show PoI is, and it was interfering with her wanting to do stage work and movie acting. Empire gave her a lot more leniency and a bigger role so I doubt she feels too bad about it. She was also aware going in that they were definitely planning on killing off someone before the show ends, but weren't sure who yet. She's clearly still in good standing with the PoI crew as evidenced by her coming back for an episode in basically the worst time of the year for NYC shooting.

The story Taraji and the showrunners tell, which is backed up by stuff you see in the show, is that Taraji said she wanted to leave around mid s2. Around that time in the show you see them setting up a potential write-off where Carter is asked to join the FBI, this would have relegated her to recurring at her leisure but she thought Carter just being in and out of town while all this stuff was going on would be against her character so the showrunners set up the HR takedown and asked her to stick around an extra season or so so they could have her go out in a blaze of glory instead. As soon as this decision gets made the show instantly drops the FBI thread and ties the reason she gets dropped into the HR stuff and the rest is history.

Also Carter owned you are a silly person.

This is really fascinating, to be honest. Also as far as I'm aware, incredibly rare for an actor to be that flexible when desiring to leave a show and the writers to be that flexible when writing her out, especially considering that Carter's departure was probably the best run of episodes ever and her death given the full weight and importance it deserved.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

It was a good ending with really powerful moments that didn't quite work as well as it should have.

I do like the idea of the Machine recursively teaching a future version of itself/her daughter, that was a neat idea and closes out the season opener really well. But it's just sort of a disjointed mess off the back of the penultimate episode, which although rushed was at least clean. This finale I honestly had very little to no idea what was going on or what people were doing outside of the big sweeping moments, like I was at best very unsure what Finch and Reese were doing and why most of the time during the finale.

The irony is that the single most powerful moment of the finale is that subplot with the two cops in the terms of a tonal/thematic conclusion to the series as a whole, which honestly just feels wrong. Basically all the roof stuff and Machine Root flashback-ing stuff was all fantastic, but basically the plot as written was a convoluted mess.

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jun 22, 2016

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Zaggitz posted:

In a show all about how irrelevant people matter, the core theme/lesson for the machine to learn and the viewer to then experience coming from one of those irrelevant threads seems very much intentional to me and not some stumble that ironically stands out.

Except it's more like the big moments are tainted by their placement within a nonsensical, overly convoluted, and just plain confusing final hour. Like you're not supposed to care more about the cops then Finch locking Reese in the cell or Reese sacrificing himself in Finch's place or Fusco getting stabbed on the subway car, you just do because the cops story has a beginning, middle, and end (the fantastic imagery of the cop doing his typical gallows humor as his older partner opens the suitcase, and the way that young dude reacts and the combination of guilt and horror washing over his face was probably the best single moment of the finale), and all of it made sense.

I remember watching the finale and going "I'm entertained but I have very little loving idea what's going on", a feeling that only worsened as I spent time away from the finale and really thought about it critically. As a constructed narrative the finale is poor, makes little sense, impresses stakes poorly, and its developments are incredibly orchestrated to a level that reveals its own artifice. I still don't get why the police captain suddenly pulled his gun on Reese and Fusco (I guess he was dirty?), I don't know who or what ordered the hit on Reese and Fusco with the killsquad afterwards, and it was all just really pointless dross to give a reason for Reese and Fusco to meet with Finch when he could've just literally called both of them in.

There's a whole bunch of sequences that end up cluttering the narrative for no reason. Like the whole "gotta break into the bank vault to kill a backup copy of Samaritan oh he sent out a copy program to be uploaded to a satellite via space now we gotta broadcast the virus again at the broadcast location" was such a long loving walk when the whole bank sequence could've been cut out to make a simpler story. But then you don't have the sequence where Finch says goodbye to Reese on the other side of the jail cell, so never mind.

Sleeping on it I'm coming away from this finale less and less impressed. It was a bunch of really fantastic, affecting moments that the show tortures itself to orchestrate and in the process gives the capper on the show, the final note they're playing, the feeling like it's some sort of bizarre fever dream. It's a story that doesn't really work and doesn't really make much sense and the things everyone does feels so artificial just so they can be at a certain point where an emotional payoff happens. And the emotional payoff is itself great, but suffers greatly because they aren't built moments at all.

The irony is that the end of PoI is a beat-for-beat echo of Dark Knight Rises' - main character sacrifices himself nobly blowing up a bomb, main character passes down the mantle of city's protector to an assistant suited specifically for the job, main character ends up in some Mediterranean villa with the love of his life after a road of trials against an evil version of himself exhausts his desire to fight crime.

TDKR gets a lot of mostly-undeserved poo poo, but its problems echo the PoI finale's, where a bunch of things just sorta happen to give the movie its emotionally affecting sequences. The difference is that TDKR is a 3 hour movie and the PoI finale is a 42 minute television episode, so the instant that Bane breaks Bruce's back the entire movie switches to payoff mode over awkward construction of movie to force Bruce Wayne to his lowest possible point mode. The second half of TDKR more than validates its first half because it coheres so well, and it ends up in totality a Very Good Film. PoI is distinctly lesser because its storytelling has to be so squished so never really comes together until they finally get all the dumb plot poo poo out of the way, and at that point there's fifteen minutes left in the episode.

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 22, 2016

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

I think a better idea would've been if Samaritan actually "won", so it comes back and we see the typical Samaritan layout but with the whole "User Input Required" bit, but then The Machine's audio recording starts playing and we see Samaritan's UI change to be some integration of Samaritan's and the Machine's. A big theme of the series is redemption/people teaching other people how to be better people, so what better conclusion then the Machine's final recording somehow convincing Samaritan to change its ways and try a more noble path.

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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

DivisionPost posted:

Easy: He's the counter to Samaritan's argument that it wants to save humanity. Starts off as a sympathetic ex-con, is recruited by Samaritan with the same speech Finch gave Reese. But whereas Reese's work gave him a sense of purpose, Blackwell's work chipped away at his humanity, the same humanity Samaritan purported to protect.

Okay, Shaw may have killed him despite her being one of the heroes. But that's her moral code; she killed her boss because of the hit he ordered on her old partner. Blackwell wasn't special, and he proved that by patronizing her with that "nothing personal" bullshit -- which is a million miles away from the family man trying to make good that we were introduced to.

Could it have used a few more episodes to develop? Sure. But the point is intact: Samaritan argues that it can save the world. It tried to do so by turning good men like Blackwell into murderous pricks like Wilson. Assuming you're on Team Machine and agree with saving the world through saving the individual, what better way to call bullshit on Samaritan's philosophy?

Except he was an incredibly boring character and they've literally already done the "Samaritan corrupts its agents" point via about a billion other much better characters, most notably Martine and Greer. He's a bad character, brought nothing new to the table, was characterized incredibly poorly for the near-entirety of season five, and deserved absolutely zero focus in the finale, much less the amount of screentime he actually did get.

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