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SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
The saddest thing about a compressed season is the reduced likely of a Fusco and Bear episode.

Maybe we can get a Netflix spin off show. A Good Cop and A Human.

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SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I got got.

I was reading this before i had my coffee and i almost had a loving aneurysm.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
It's a little hokey, but I can buy that a bootleg super computer could be set up such that when it melts the processor (something that can happen if the hardware gets too hot), causes sparking and stuff. I well overlook it for the nerd cred of building a bootleg supercomputer out of used PS3s running a custom linux build. And when his desks go up, it's the weird PSU rig he's made that caused it, so that's plenty believable.

Also I'm in with the crowd of people literally brought to tears by the machine (multiple times).

The only thing I actually didn't like in this episode was a lack of Shaw and a lack of Greer. And Elias being dead, but I'm pretty sure they set that up ambiguously at the end of the last season incase they could get him to come back. I also thought it was a little hokey that the FBI agent covering up the investigation at Samaritan's behest didn't falsify a ballistics report, but I could buy that he didn't know he was doing it or just that the orders came down from the FBI HQ to just sweep it under the rug and the false report hasn't come in yet.

The instantly reinstalling Samaritan-ware reminds me of an article I read about someone making malware that would install itself into the disk controller on the harddisk itself, so even one were to reformat the drive completely and wipe it with a magnet, the controller software would be able to install itself at it's earliest convenience.

I am a 110% psyched for this season.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Oh no, I thought Samaritan, fully on it's own hunting the team was great. I just love me some Greer.

V-Men posted:

I can't recall if Samaritan lists him as an asset or not.

I just think it would've been great for Samaritan to just fabricate the evidence in half a second to back it's cover up. If it didn't prepare the evidence already.

Tortolia posted:

After the scene where he shows the ballistics report and confuses the hell out of the IA guy, he does have a Samaritan asset tag, yeah.

Asset asset or civilian asset.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I'd love an episode of fan service as a bonus feature but it was great watching them imitate each other. I wouldn't want one of our last few eps dedicated to it to it.

This episode was loving phenomenal.

I think Samaritan is recruiting all over but it's using the office to steer useful people to it. Not just smart folks or whatever but someone who can be trusted to not just be smart but who has the willingness to do violence. This guy is also on parole which Samaritan can use as leverage.

SpookyLizard fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 10, 2016

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
You'd really think they'd have done a better job burying that seriously bad information. You'd expect those records to be dead and buried and not just available to some third party contractor. It's not like he was just DOD googling his brother, he managed to find the brief on the operation itself. Keith David was amazing in this too :swoon:

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Samaritan couldn't see Reese or Finch as Reese or Finch, it was looking at them, seeing them improperly identified and manually tracking them via briefcase/gear and movement from Camera to Camera. When Samaritan lost track it reacquired them via the equipment.

The curious question is why didn't Samaritan realize that it's classification system was malfunctioning and not recognizing Finch/Root/John were actually threats and rewriting their profiles as threats. And if it was unable to rewrite their cover profiles as threats, why it didn't realize that it was malfunctioning.

Which means: It's either Samaritan isn't realizing it's having problems, or it has realized the problem and is trying to figure it out. Greer or someone else should probably be or is already aware that they can't rely on Samaritan to find them, and this should be more curious now that the Machine is dead (as far as they know) and they still can't find them. I could buy that they were having trouble following them courtesy of interference on the Machine's part, but it should be an obvious issue to Greer and Decima that their all-seeing god can't actually see all.

I'm really hoping that this comes up later, because I can't help but feel that aside from finding Team Machine to kill them, and finding terrorist targets to put down, finding the blindspot in Samaritan must be a pretty big loving thing.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Zaggitz posted:

They actually bring this up in 4x10, the samaritan kid says it thinks the machine did something to it but can't figure out what or how. Basically it knows there's a problem but literally has no idea where to look for it.

that's probably why I don't remember it

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

devmd01 posted:

I just want to see Fusco finally get looped in to the AI wars and see his reaction to it. :allears:

I want Fusco to guess and be wrong. A reversal of what Carter did, where's he's just like "it's aliens, isn't? That's how you know all this stuff, alien surveilance."

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Yeah, I called the twist fairly early on just because the writing just felt so goddamn wrong. Plus the lack of writing and I didn't even think of the apartment at first because I was so caught up in RootxShaw (ON NETWORK TELEVISION).

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

SpookyLizard posted:

Yeah, I called the twist fairly early on just because the writing just felt so goddamn wrong. Plus the lack of writing and I didn't even think of the apartment at first because I was so caught up in RootxShaw (ON NETWORK TELEVISION).

Hollismason posted:

I guess I'll spoiler this Actually, I think Samaritan isn't running a simulation on Shaw it's using Shaw to test it's weaknesses the Primary Asset, its agents, etc... if it leads to the machine great. Otherwise its just testing itself. Also that sex scene was loving awful. Lol they just grab each other and roll around is that what Samaritan imagines sex like?


This is kind of a neat idea but I think that Shaw and John are so good at violence that it can't really learn to stop them. I can't help but think of how some athletes are so good at their sport that they can't really coach nearly as well as they can play. They have such a level of raw talent and honed skill that Samaritan can't really teach the operatives how to deal with them, short of finding another Martine. Especially in that limited situation. Unfortuntely even if Samaritan tried using Shaw to run simulations of how Team Machine would try to counter it's operations, I can't help but feel it would be like the simplified version from If Then Else, where they would get a heads up from the Machine about the operation and Finch and Shaw would just have some vague placeholder lines of technobabble and Shaw and John's attack plan would be totally based on whatever defenses Samaritan deployed, so even if it built a tactic to counter their original plan, their eventual plan would change based on that.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Bruce and Elias were goddamn amazing. The only thing I didn't kinda like was how twisty turny and suspicious things were from the get go and it took Team Machine to suspect Samaritan. I guessed Samaritan from the get go when they revealed the super neat computer system falsely reported gunshots as firecrackers. I'm kinda surprised they didn't jump to Samaritan so quickly.

Also at first I thought the cup of tea Finch finds in the safehouse was supposed to be a reference about how long it's been since they used it.Totally didn't expect it to be from Elias. Or Finch visiting Elias.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

override367 posted:

It seems they're pretty outmatched if the Machine loses 10 billion in a row

My guess is that the baby Machine will merge with the baby Samaritan at some point, since it can't beat it

I'm betting they're going to give this simulation data to the Machine and the Machine will alter it's code to do exactly that. Or will alter itself, run the sims, then try again and again. Unless I missed something, all that sim data is being kept isolated in the faraday cage, so the Machine hasn't been able to access it yet.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Btw Finch referred to the Machine and Samaritan as ASIs. What is that? Artificial Sentient Intelligences?

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Accretionist posted:

Oh-ho, a year? Let's say the average simulation was 2.5 days and she ran 7,000 simulations flat.

That's 17,500 days, or, ~50 years.

Shaw should be insane and also the Lance Armstrong of killing.

Id watch the poo poo out of Shaw's Groundhog Day.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I wouldn't be surprised if Samaritans vaccine ended up being used to kill off swaths of the population. I'm kinda expecting that with the vaccines. Using it to engineering viruses to target unwanted groups, demographics, or going full FOX DIE and using it to kill specific people.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

raditts posted:

HAROLD... TURN OFF MY CODE INHIBITORS!

SAMARITAN... YOUR MEMES END HERE

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Samaritan basically is the la-li-lu-le-lo


(Also great rampage music. For the machine.)

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
We've really only seen his son as something important to Fusco, for him to be threatened with and subsequently use as the starting reaction for a potential rampage or act of ridiculous violence. Carter's kid had a little development, she reconciled with her husband and him being able to care for his son was an important part of that.

Also let's take a minute to remind everyone that Finch is kind of responsible for stealing/copying ARPANET and giving people the internet. Which would be an interesting story in and of itself, but Prometheus stealing fire from the gods is something they've only ever implied.

Honestly, Finch and Grace getting back together is absolutely silly to me, considering he's been dead afask for like, ten years? But Samaritan thinking Team Machine are dead, the Machine and Samaritan having it out and/or merging, and then the Machine's Daddy.exe protocol is actually keeping them safe while they try and live out their lives as people would be a satisfying ending. John trying to be a normal person who can be attached to others, Shaw merely trying to be a person, and etc.

Also I have to say I'm really glad that Samaritan realized it had a blind spot, and made some kind fo work around. I felt the cover identities was kinda overstaying it's welcome.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Has this show ever a done a Once Upon a Time In America allusion?

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Zaggitz posted:

The virus Finch picked up at the military facility was a Vonnegut reference, also.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who picked up on that. And is suitably terrified of what that virus might do. If anyone in this thread hasn't read Cat's Cradle you probably should.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
If the name is representative of the virus at all, it could end up causing serious damage to every networked device on the planet. Killing the machine and Samaritan and potentially setting humanity back a few years in repairs alone. The more developed nations could be blacked out for days if not weeks by the damage to infrastructure. Even if stuff could be restored afterwards it probably wouldn't be worth the risk of restoring Samaritan or Ice-9.


That poo poo is terrifying and i wonder what finch is going to do with it cause his rear end is scary.


Chasiubao posted:

Final scene is a Mad Max-style wasteland, Bear and Reese peering off into the distance.

Fade out. Then, a phone rings.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Sacrificing the president is a small cost if it helps Samaritan root out the Machine. It knows the Machine wouldn't let Relevant One die. If it ignores the privacy terrorists (hell, it may have even helped them, Decima has set up terrorist groups before), and a president dies, the only risk is Samaritan loses the support of the government, but frankly they don't really need that anymore. It really only poses a short term disruption to Samaritan. The Machine is the only thing Samaritan is really worried about.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Zaggitz posted:

The irrelevant number this week was John, Team Machine 2 saved him.

Also the president's box is unique in that the outline is blue but the corners are white.

Relevant-One is a great code-name for The Machine to use for the President.

Also I'm hoping that having a bunch of Team-Machines in the different cities across America are part of how the Machine fights Samaritan. Samaritan is so focused on Team-Machine NYC that it's overlooking the Vigilante groups in different cities across the country. Which does kinda work. Focusing on the main group and finding the Machine itself would effectively shut the other cells down. So it's just condensing it's resources on the key structure of the group. But maybe it's over-focusing is going to be it's downfall.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Okay, stream of consciousness post on episode:

You're gonna destroy the internet. Been there, done that. I'm glad that ICE-9 is being referenced as proper.

I sold the world, only I sold it for a dollar.

Oh man what if lifes for everyone. CARTER IS ALIVE WHAT THE poo poo. Fusco done got his life wrecked.

Greer's number! Crew going to Ft Mead. FINCH WITH A GODDAMN TRANQ GUN.

HENRY loving PECK CALLBACK! GONNA GET MURDERED BY SHAW! AND HER PARTNER IS ALIVE!

I can't get over the level of detail they've gone through for the callbacks.
Also is the Machine only Root-Talking to Finch? I wonder what it's goal is for bringing in Reese and Shaw? Emergency Evac for Finch? Stopping him?

OH poo poo IS HE DOING IT. HE'S DOING IT. ICE-9.EXE Goddamn!

BROTHER GODDAMN MUZONE!

OH NO FUSCO

Greer sends chills up my goddamn spine with every loving word.

Samaritan wants a partner! Is it Samaritan the one who wants to merge?

HOLY poo poo GREER. loving DEDICATION. A bit unnecessary, but valid nonetheless! Your machine saved you Harold! Will you still kill it?

John with no Machine :(

Harold run! Give the machine the password and leg it, let hte machine decide. YES FINCH DO IT. BUY BACK THE GODDAMN WORLD.

FUSCO NO! FUSCO YES! FUSCO NO!

Ms. Groves for Samaritan!?!?!? OH NO BAD CODE.

Dashwood?

E: Am I gonna have to read Sense and Sensibility now? I'm not keen on Jane Austin. I also don't want to stop my Iain M Banks Culture marathon.

E2: Also I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time Fusco had a get shot fakeout. I'm pretty sure, way back in like S2/3 there's an episode where Fusco gets shot, everyone panics, and he's just like "You think i'm too stupid to wear a vest when I work with you guys?" Also, Fusco getting shot was a great, nice, sudden bit of violence. They just go from talking to Fusco getting shot, and it's loving great.

Also, to the guy who was just getting caught up last page: You're not the only one the Machine has brought to literal tears. Especially before she really started talking. S4 Finale especially.

SpookyLizard fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jun 15, 2016

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Have some of the people in this thread not read Cat's Cradle and as such have no understanding of Ice-9? In short, in Vonnegut's novel, Ice-9 is a polymorph of water that has a freezing point of 45.8 degrees celsius, as opposed to regular water's zero degrees celsius. When Ice-9 is introduced into liquid water, it basically cause the entire body to rapidly solidify and 'freeze' and require melting to above to 45.8 degrees celsius to return to normal water. Ice-9 was invented by the Manhattan to help Marines and other soldiers have to stop dealing with mud. It was never used because it could A) freeze the poo poo out of people and B) possibly end all life on earth if it touched an serious amount of water. Oh, did I mention it can kill people? Yeah, that will happen if it makes contact with the liquid portion of your body.

The Ice-9.exe Finch stole is presumably similar. It's a weaponized super-virus, and it's named after a tiny crystal that can end the world if a sliver ends up in a river that lets out to the ocean. It can kill a person if it touches the inside of their mouth or their eyes. While I suspect it may be to a certain degree a little handwavey as to how it fucks the world's poo poo up, but whatever it's going to do I'm guessing will have a similar Snowball effect to Ice-9. It may leave all currently existing devices unusable AND possibly functioning as means of redistribution afterwards. I'm expecting it will end up altering some fundamental level of computers, that will leave Samaritan thinking about how 2+2=5, and how it needs scissors! 61!

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
In Shaws simulation episode Samaritan tells her that its already stopped terrorist acts that would've eventually led to global thermo nuclear exchanges. Of course She's probably prevented that poo poo seven times over in the ISA but I think that's Samaritans goal, assuming it doesn't induce the end of the world when it goes full SKYNET or full AM.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Dont forget that Samaritan has also moved itself to live on like every networked device in the world. It might have been able to briefcase itself, but that might contain the data. Thats why it was using the airgapped backup in the federal reserve.

V-Men posted:

It's not as if it resided on a single computer that could be scheduled to be shut down and booted up after two weeks. It exists on server farms that are permanently connected. Even if all those shut down, the physical connections couldn't be cut and there's no promising that Ice-9 couldn't still infect a computer upon booting.

Did I miss the explanation why Samaritan's backup on an air-gapped machine still had fiber optic lines leading out?

Its airgapped, not light gapped. I kinda ignored it at the time because i was into the episode. But i could buy it had some kind of disconnected network connection the samaritan back up could activate. So when it determined it was being infected it flicked a switch and the cables got plugged in and then it could flee its secret bunker using its secret escape tunnel. Or maybe they were all purpose fiber optic connections and Samaritan had some way of tapping into them.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
hey guys look what's on sale on amazon

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

WarLocke posted:

The last season was great and they did good work with the number of episodes they had, but it's really obvious that they needed more time to properly tie things up.

Seems to be happening to a lot of shows lately (see Banshee's last season).

Still, this was truly a great show.

Although I wouldn't mind a spin-off where Fusco, Shaw and Bear field numbers while awkwardly sharing an apartment, and Finch periodically contacts them through a speaker Charlie's Angels-style. :3:

That's how Root-Machine should talk to them.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I have the mental image of the kid running into a room, closing the door behind him, leaning back against it and exhaling a sigh of relief before Root kicks the door in, on top of him, and standing on top of it, the proud victor.

Or possibly blowing the door off its hinges with a rocket launcher.

That Samaritan cell was running scared, and the Machine launched it's cell loaded for bear and ready for war.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I was honestly going to do a rewatch soon, and when i do I'll make a list of relevant episodes and irrelevant episodes. Personally, i love the cast so much i can enjoy episodes because prettyuch every one on the cast has such great chemistry. Finch and Reese, root and finch, Shaw and bear, Fusco and glasses, fusco and coo-coo puffs, Leon and Bear. The characters redeem the bad episodes for me.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
I think it's important to remember all the characters basically all are action heroes. They're all experts in their fields, and they're all basically the demigod disciples of a God. The show is serious on its own terms, that's why reeds can knee can knee cap people with out actually looking down his sights on his pistol.

Personally I see Reese as having a redemptive relationship with the machine. For his entire CIA career reese pretty much killed dudes for the government, frequently at northern lights behest. When he stops working for northern lights he becomes a mess and when Finch hires him he unfucks himself in saving people.

Carrying over the Machine God idea, Reese murdered for God without knowing god, which left him a shallow shell of a man about to throw himself into the east river with enough liquor in him to pickle a whale. When he meets Finch, the prophet and through finch actually gets to know god, he does a lot of the same poo poo but redeems his soul in the process. The (reduced) killing he does now bears Gods Sanction and approval and in this he saves himself and becomes a normal person again, though he will later go on to sacrifice himself for God.

I think this has less to do with a religious over tones as much as it does gave something to do with a how someone can be a destructive force of murder and still be a person.

This makes sense when i write it but you guys can tell me if it makes sense when I'm sober.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

theflyingexecutive posted:

That would make a lot more sense if God mode were always running, but it's weird to have superhero fantasy gun battles in a high concept show. I like that interpretation for sure

Upon re-reading it in the light of day I had the mental image of John as a Paladin, and now I'm imaging the cast as a DnD party, consisting of a paladin, a rogue, two wizards, a dog and a member of the local constabulary.

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SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

xeria posted:

Reese is the Fighter who aspires to be a paladin but skirts around the law too much to make it work. Joss Carter is the One True Paladin.

This is pretty true. I have a wonderful mental image of Shaw the Rogue who has crossclassed into being a fighter, thus specializing in both sneaking around and backstabbing people with warhammers.

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