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PBnJamo
Feb 11, 2014


What I found out in the second stage is that the game is ridiculously gear driven. So much so that it becomes relatively easy to fight a bunch of the little guys. You can still screw up of course, but it felt really weird to go through that second stage without dying until the new enemy types or the boss.

He was really difficult until I realized: You can block his claw swipes.

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Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Yeah the game feels much more stat heavy than a Souls game. The jump in requirements to do damage to things (and the damage they do to you) between the first and second stages is obnoxious. The big red rear end in a top hat on the island in the cemetery can kill me easily in two hits. gently caress those guys suck, not being ably to stagger or interrupt them blows.

Zaphod42 posted:

At the very least they need to let you pick up all the items in an area or from a single "drop" with a single button press.

Finding an item, opening it only to have it spill out 3 more items, and then having to pick those up individually as well is tedious.

You can sell items by "make offering" at shrines if you need to ditch stuff, get some spare Amarita for it, but I feel you.

It helps that you can bulk sell things through various searching options at the shrines.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





Zaphod42 posted:



The first few enemies of the town you can't skip,


you run up the hill back toward the last area and jump off onto the roof and down into the small yard with one guy in it. and from there you can get up to the roof and skip all but like 4 guys in the first half of the town

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I shortcut through the alley, kill the one zombie there, snipe the archer, kill the Samurai. Yeah you can't really skip them, but it's pretty quick.

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



I really hate this gear system. Picking up a bunch of identical weapons with +/- a few percent in five stats blows. If they're going to stick with that they at least need a trash filter so I don't have to worry about picking them up when I'm trying to get dropped elixirs or whatever.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Real hurthling! posted:

you run up the hill back toward the last area and jump off onto the roof and down into the small yard with one guy in it. and from there you can get up to the roof and skip all but like 4 guys in the first half of the town

Clever bastard! That's really cool.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

You really need to sell your trash at the shrine. Not only do you get some souls for selling them, you get gifts of useful things like elixirs for your offerings. It's a pretty painless process, because you can sort by rarity or ability and go through and check all the items you want to offer and then offer them all at once.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





Zaphod42 posted:

Clever bastard! That's really cool.

roof yokai falls down hole in roof really easily too to skip that encounter

8-Bit Scholar
Jan 23, 2016

Silent Majority
SOLDIER


Bugblatter posted:

I finished the demo and... I'm kinda surprised to see all the praise? I don't know what I'm missing.

Pretty much everyone was quickly killed by a dash behind and then three light combos from high stance, levels were ugly, and the level layout was bland. Worst is just that the combat feels limp and floaty, animations just lack any oomph or feedback. Like this is everything I didn't like about DS2 amplified, more or less.

I think the first boss is where it just completely lost me. He spins those big metal balls and... they kind of just slide around soundlessly without much feeling of inertia or momentum? If they hit you you lose health but your character doesn't flinch? It just feels so amateurish. That had better just be the alpha nature of the demo, and not just the demo being called "alpha" so people will forgive such poo poo.

Sucks because the *idea* of a samurai Souls sounds great, and the stance system is a solid concept... but the execution is just so flaccid. If it's truly an alpha then maybe the combat will become more engrossing by release, but I think that would probably require a pretty major reworking of the animation which certainly won't happen. If it's released in winter or later I'll give it another look... but if they announce a summer or fall release then I'll know there's no way they've fixed things.

I mean, I dunno, you'll hit some tougher enemies pretty soon in the demo and especially in the second stage, and I found the big armored samurai guys never died in just a single combo so I had to approach them carefully. And...wait, you're upset that you can't get easily stun-locked? I mean, since you die in three hits generally speaking, I feel like you're basically mad that the game isn't not fun. Maybe you had some sound glitches vis a vis the first boss? I recall getting knocked on my rear end a lot too.

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Holy poo poo this game plays and runs so much better once you switch from Movie to Action mode. Shame about how it looks though, it gets aliased all to hell.

Consoles amirite.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Also the bloodstain revenants essentially let you fight extra and varied enemies if you want. It's important to remember that while there are a lot of design choices in common with soulsgames, Nioh is also very loot-driven and will almost certainly have a farming aspect.

The help bubble for the familiarity number of items says "The higher your familiarity, the better a chance at finding the Smith Amrita when you disassemble it." which I think means that there's going to be a whole "disenchant weapons to unlock weapon crafting components" aspect of the game.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Yodzilla posted:

Holy poo poo this game plays and runs so much better once you switch from Movie to Action mode. Shame about how it looks though, it gets aliased all to hell.

Consoles amirite.

Yeah, it still drops pretty drat low even on action mode in certain scenes, hopefully they'll do an optimization pass over the game.

But I added that to the OP in case other people don't realize that's an option. (As almost ZERO console games even let you pick such things, I like that they do)

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Snak posted:

Also the bloodstain revenants essentially let you fight extra and varied enemies if you want. It's important to remember that while there are a lot of design choices in common with soulsgames, Nioh is also very loot-driven and will almost certainly have a farming aspect.

The help bubble for the familiarity number of items says "The higher your familiarity, the better a chance at finding the Smith Amrita when you disassemble it." which I think means that there's going to be a whole "disenchant weapons to unlock weapon crafting components" aspect of the game.

Oh I was wondering about that. Interesting.

And yeah once I got to level 2 and started getting wrecked I just fought a bunch of bloodsword ghosts and increased all my gear and found myself on much even footing. Yeah it kinda sucks that I had to grind in order to to that but it wasn't all that long and I kinda like fighting other players' corpses.

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


Watched a few streams of this and it's looking good, but I'm worried it will end up being grindy or devolve into a bunch of crafting/inventory management later on. It also seems like bosses pretty much unconditionally one or two shot you, which I hope was just the players not upgrading health or being unprepared but being team ninja that is probably intentional.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Yodzilla posted:

Oh I was wondering about that. Interesting.

And yeah once I got to level 2 and started getting wrecked I just fought a bunch of bloodsword ghosts and increased all my gear and found myself on much even footing. Yeah it kinda sucks that I had to grind in order to to that but it wasn't all that long and I kinda like fighting other players' corpses.

Yeah I don't actually know anything about a planned crafting system, but I'd be pretty surprised if there weren't something similar to Diablo 3's system at the simplest.

I'm not sure if Familiarity is even implemented, but if it is, it's safe to say it's a very long term thing. It's out of 999, and I never got a single one of my items to go from 0/999 to 1/999 in a few hours of playing.

I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


I started blocking... Realized it's not like Dark Souls where some of the damage goes thru - you completely block the attack.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I AM BRAWW posted:

I started blocking... Realized it's not like Dark Souls where some of the damage goes thru - you completely block the attack.

If you ever go back to dark souls, you should note that whether any damage goes through is determined by the shield's defense attributes. There are plenty of shields that block 100% of physical damage in dark souls.

Blocking is really important in Nioh, but I've noticed something that is going to take me quite awhile to get the hang of: Once you have parry skills, you can't let off of block and then immediatly strike with a fast attack, you end up doing a parry unless you sword has moved back into the correct position. This is a big reason to reaction block and parry, rather than holding it. I'm sure that Stance/Ki Pulse probably interacts with this in some way.

Marogareh
Feb 23, 2011


Zaphod42 posted:

Nah, I wasn't able to parry the Oni demons at all. Not sure if you can even parry axes even. But it kicks rear end against other katana dudes. If you can't use it against the others though may not be the best skill in the world, which considering how easy it is to destroy people may be necessary for balance.

You can parry the axe dudes but not the Oni from what I've tried. Would've made the ninja Oni less of an rear end in a top hat if so. I haven't tried parrying the zombie guys when they're standing up because gently caress those guys.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Yeah, I was able to parry all the regular human guys with swords, spears, and axes, but not the Oni. The parry timing for spears is very difficult for me, though.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


I AM BRAWW posted:

I started blocking... Realized it's not like Dark Souls where some of the damage goes thru - you completely block the attack.

There's no shields, so they just made sword blocking as good as using a proper shield, which is nice.

Parrying windows are HUGE compared to dark souls also, and very easy to do, although it seems some attacks are un-parryable.

Snak posted:

If you ever go back to dark souls, you should note that whether any damage goes through is determined by the shield's defense attributes. There are plenty of shields that block 100% of physical damage in dark souls.

Blocking is really important in Nioh, but I've noticed something that is going to take me quite awhile to get the hang of: Once you have parry skills, you can't let off of block and then immediatly strike with a fast attack, you end up doing a parry unless you sword has moved back into the correct position. This is a big reason to reaction block and parry, rather than holding it. I'm sure that Stance/Ki Pulse probably interacts with this in some way.

I think he's talking about blocking with your weapon which, there's no weapons in dark souls that have anywhere near decent defense attributes. You have to go shield to get anywhere near a decent defense, and this game has no shields. That was his point.

Maybe you forgot that blocking with weapons in DS is a thing you can even do, because nobody ever does it.

LawfulWaffle
Mar 11, 2014

Did you know that dinosaurs had big ears but everyone forgot 'cause dinosaur ears don't have bones?

That's 'cause it's not true.
It's a rock fact!

Grimey Drawer

When you talk about parrying, are you referring to one of the three moves specifically? Like, Guard right before hit, or the Square while Guarding move that puts you behind the enemy. I'm trash at parrying, but maybe the three different skills work better against different weapons.

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


I kinda hope there's more than just three different weapon types in the final version, that might get kinda old.

And I wonder how the Ninja Gaiden games hold up now, especially in light of the Souls series being so popular. I never beat any of them but I remember 1 being great and 2 having some series issues and after that it was pure trash. Shame I don't have any way to play them now.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Zaphod42 posted:

There's no shields, so they just made sword blocking as good as using a proper shield, which is nice.

Parrying windows are HUGE compared to dark souls also, and very easy to do, although it seems some attacks are un-parryable.


I think he's talking about blocking with your weapon which, there's no weapons in dark souls that have anywhere near decent defense attributes. You have to go shield to get anywhere near a decent defense, and this game has no shields. That was his point.

Maybe you forgot that blocking with weapons in DS is a thing you can even do, because nobody ever does it.

No, I just assumed that since this game has no shields he was comparing blocking (with your weapon) in this game, and blocking (with a shield) in dark souls. Because as you said, no one blocks with their weapon in DS.

Honestly the combat of this game isn't very similar to Dark Souls. It's really, really cool to see the Soulslike level design with the action-gameplay of something more like Ninja Gaiden or Way of the Samurai.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Yodzilla posted:

I kinda hope there's more than just three different weapon types in the final version, that might get kinda old.

And I wonder how the Ninja Gaiden games hold up now, especially in light of the Souls series being so popular. I never beat any of them but I remember 1 being great and 2 having some series issues and after that it was pure trash. Shame I don't have any way to play them now.

Its three fighting styles (with three stances apiece) plus two schools of magic, and you can already see that things like hammers use the 'axe' style, which is kinda silly but works well enough. So there will be other 'types' of weapons, but they'll use the same styles. (I guess the alpha might not include a style or two from the full game though!)

That said, its pretty unlikely we'll get twinblades or anything like that. They're focusing very hard on realistic feudal Japanese fighting, and I think that's a good thing.

LawfulWaffle posted:

When you talk about parrying, are you referring to one of the three moves specifically? Like, Guard right before hit, or the Square while Guarding move that puts you behind the enemy. I'm trash at parrying, but maybe the three different skills work better against different weapons.

I've played with both a little, but the one I use the most is the parry with square to get behind because that rules. I wasn't able to do it against axe guy but I may have just timed it wrong the couple times I tried. And it didn't work against the Oni for sure.

Snak posted:

No, I just assumed that since this game has no shields he was comparing blocking (with your weapon) in this game, and blocking (with a shield) in dark souls. Because as you said, no one blocks with their weapon in DS.

Honestly the combat of this game isn't very similar to Dark Souls. It's really, really cool to see the Soulslike level design with the action-gameplay of something more like Ninja Gaiden or Way of the Samurai.

Yeah that's what I'm loving about this. It nails the souls overall structure and main elements, but the combat mechanics are very different, almost completely different. It feels like Way of the Samurai or Bushido Blade and that's amazing because those games are rare to begin with, mixing that with dark souls = very happy Zaphod.

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Holy crap I had no idea you could completely stunlock bosses with your spirit animal powers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AhXWYZxTVg#t=279s

Zaphod42 posted:

realistic feudal Japanese fighting

Haha uhhhh

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



You can do that by breaking their uh, well it's not stamina but I don't know what to call it, their second gauge, and any hit will make them flinch until they recover. That damage was bananas though. Guess he doesn't like water.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

lets hang out posted:

You can do that by breaking their uh, well it's not stamina but I don't know what to call it, their second gauge, and any hit will make them flinch until they recover. That damage was bananas though.

I assume it's still Ki, even though it's like, demon power.

It's also super important to use Ki Pulses during the first boss fight, because Ki Pulses clear that AOEs that block your Ki. If you don't do any, he just keeps filling the room with them and then you can't even dodge.

edit: Also, if you like using swords, Heart seems to be hands down the best stat. I'm like level 30 and I have 20 Heart, because it boosts my Life, Ki, and swords scale with it. So it's my best damage stat and gives me the most Ki.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



And it turns out just slapping Nue in the face with anything while it's shooting its mouth laser is enough to instantly break that gauge for a bunch of free hits.

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen


Shima Honnou posted:

This game looks cool but it's a PS4 exclusive and TBH I'm pretty much done with buying consoles.

Ps4 console exclusive

Maybe PC some day??

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Yodzilla posted:

Haha uhhhh

Well, it is still a videogame Its not a simulation, of course.

Bushido Blade was previously praised as being one of the more realistic swordfighting games and its not exactly perfect either.

Or are you pointing out the oni-demon spirits and stuff that's just straight magical?

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


More that even with normal attacks you're still doing crazy flips with a giant anime axe and teleporting all over the place. Bushido Blade and Kengo are definitely way more on the realistic side than this.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





Yodzilla posted:

More that even with normal attacks you're still doing crazy flips with a giant anime axe and teleporting all over the place. Bushido Blade and Kengo are definitely way more on the realistic side than this.

swings sword 3 times, pants heavily - checks out as realistic for most goons

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Yodzilla posted:

More that even with normal attacks you're still doing crazy flips with a giant anime axe and teleporting all over the place. Bushido Blade and Kengo are definitely way more on the realistic side than this.



There's your anime axe.

But yes, the sword and spear stuff is going to be the more realistic stuff.

A big part of it is just semi-reasonably sized weapons and actual techniques.

I think it's loving hilarious that this is based of a historical person. Like, really?

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Yeah I'm legit curious as to what the actual story is in this game.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Snak posted:

I think it's loving hilarious that this is based of a historical person. Like, really?

It's a very Koei thing to do

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

lets hang out posted:

It's a very Koei thing to do

Yeah, the game has a really silly developement history. Originally is was based on an unfinished Akira Kurosawa script, that was being finished by his son, Hisao Kurasawa, for a movie to be released in parallel with the game. This was pre 2006, when the game and movie were both still called Oni. Then the game never came out in 2006. Then in 2009 they confirmed that the game was still in development. I assume the movie never happened. During this time (I want to say in 2008) Koei was bought by Techmo, becoming Koei Techmo. In 2010, it was announced that it was now being developed by Team Ninja. Now it's scheduled for release sometime this year. But no actual date.

TheComicFiend
Oct 4, 2013

Let's Survive


VocalizePlayerDeath posted:

Full cleared, got enough spirit for my Hawk bonus then all points into Ninjutsu with spear.

Fire Shurikens rule.
Those brown zombiod fuckers that crawl on the ground and spit poison/throw rocks are the toughest enemies in the whole game.

I hate them the most
https://zippy.gfycat.com/SaneFlippantCougar.webm

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Detroit





College Slice

ZenVulgarity posted:

Ps4 console exclusive

Maybe PC some day??

Man I hope so because it looks awesome as hell and Koei is on a bit of a "Bring everything to PC" kick these past couple years.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Those zombie fuckers are awful. They seem pretty weak but that just lures you into a sense of security, then they grab you and barf poison all over you and fuuuuck.

Remind me of re-deads in zelda in a big way. Not too hard to kill, but don't let those fuckers grab you.

Snak posted:

Yeah, the game has a really silly developement history. Originally is was based on an unfinished Akira Kurosawa script, that was being finished by his son, Hisao Kurasawa, for a movie to be released in parallel with the game. This was pre 2006, when the game and movie were both still called Oni. Then the game never came out in 2006. Then in 2009 they confirmed that the game was still in development. I assume the movie never happened. During this time (I want to say in 2008) Koei was bought by Techmo, becoming Koei Techmo. In 2010, it was announced that it was now being developed by Team Ninja. Now it's scheduled for release sometime this year. But no actual date.

That is a troubled history, but being involved with Koei explains the slight Dynasty Warriors feel of the combos, and being based on an Akira Kurosawa script is so loving perfect, even if the movie didn't fully pan out or they had to change some things.

And weird as it is, ending up with Team Ninja is probably the best thing that could have happened, short of being picked up by FROM themselves.

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Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Don't get me wrong, From is great, but I think Nioh is great because it is really different from Soulsgames. So I mean, I think Team Ninja taking over is better than it being picked up by From.

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