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I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


So what is the actual difference between stances? I 100% specced into maxing out mid-stance sword but I think it was stupid on my part

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


What is a good build for the demo anyway? Should I be specializing in one weapon type? Is the onmyo magic worth increasing the magic stat for? Should I be focusing on either Strength or Skill, or is it being to raise both?

Bugblatter
Aug 4, 2003
Belgium!

I AM BRAWW posted:

So what is the actual difference between stances? I 100% specced into maxing out mid-stance sword but I think it was stupid on my part

High stance has slow heavy hits that stagger and deal a ton of damage but leave you open, low stance does really fast hits that you can get in between dodges, mid stance tends to work a bit better for blocking and its wide sweeping attacks are good for crowd control with some weapons. So high is heavy offense, mid is more defense, low is dodging and rolling.

I kind of wound up using high like a two handed greatsword in Souls, mid like a claymore, and low like daggers. Not that the play styles wind up being exactly 1-to-1 between the games, but they feel similar. The fact that you can rapidly switch between the three, as well as have weapons at any given time allows for a lot of rapid changes in combat. You essentially have 6 different move-sets a button press away at any time.

I didn't really branch out from katanas and axes though, and axes I only used in high stance to deal lots of damage against demons. I'm probably missing a bunch.

Mojo Jojo
Sep 21, 2005
Hypnotist of Ladies

Weapon durability really saps fun from the demo. Your katana breaking and suddenly needing to use another weapon class that you've put no points in until you get a katana drop is the worst. I hope it's less of an issue in the full game.

Also it hurts fancy dress up time

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

Now let me teach YOU a lesson


its not an issue in the demo, use the tons of repair items you get

I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


Yeah, once you realize you stock up on whetstones from giving trash items to the altar you can keep your weapon until you find a better one.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004



It's just being realistic regarding the quality of actual Japanese weapons.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I AM BRAWW posted:

So what is the actual difference between stances? I 100% specced into maxing out mid-stance sword but I think it was stupid on my part

You should not choose a stance to stick with, instead you should choose your stance based on each enemy. Ideally you want to change stances during combat for optimum combos, but that poo poo is hard.

Mid stance is pretty good all around, but it's also why I thought the crawling Zombies were hard. Low and high stances can easily hit them while they're on the ground band makes them a joke, outside of their bullshitty grab.

Yes, bullshitty. I had one grab me while I was behind it, and the barfing into my face animation played while it was 4 feet in front of me facing away from me.

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009



Harrow posted:

What is a good build for the demo anyway? Should I be specializing in one weapon type? Is the onmyo magic worth increasing the magic stat for? Should I be focusing on either Strength or Skill, or is it being to raise both?

max heart for katanas.

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


Real hurthling! posted:

In reflection on the demo lvl2 felt really weak and i hope it doesn't make it into the game unchanged.

Yeah the majority of it is just dudes out in the open without a whole lot of interesting level design. The first level was way better.

lets hang out posted:

you just need to kill the statue guys right next to it

You can get to the shrine without aggroing or needing to fight the statues.

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008


So I had quite a bit of trouble with the second Oni; the first one I beat with low stance Katana and lots of Ki Bursts to stagger him. Tried that on the second one, and it didn't go so well.
Solution? High-stanced lightning axe, motherfucker!
It took all of two combos.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I posted this in the genchat thread, but I'm posting it here as well:

I made a video about low stance and how great it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwfJdcki92Q

edit: I'm pretty new to making videos, so any constructive feedback is appreciated. I'm still playing around with volume levels. I feel like maybe my voice should be louder compared to the game sound.

Snak fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 17:03

Belzac
Mar 19, 2008

The third fracture I would do away with...I can't, sorry.

F R A C T U R E


I like the second level more than the first. It has more optional areas that lead into cool encounters and it's really fun to run around all the cool paths to get where you want to go very quickly without aggroing much. I'd rather they add a ton of level 2 sized levels then a few level 1 sized levels.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Belzac posted:

I like the second level more than the first. It has more optional areas that lead into cool encounters and it's really fun to run around all the cool paths to get where you want to go very quickly without aggroing much. I'd rather they add a ton of level 2 sized levels then a few level 1 sized levels.

I don't think that level 2 is even smaller than level 1. It's just flatter and has a big open area that serves no purpose. Level 1 is very dense, so in terms of content, yeah it's got like twice as much.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Is there a particular element that the bosses are each weak to? I have Fire and Water talisman but I might as well use these onmyo skill points for something if it's worth it.

Also I find the axe oni on the roof in the latter part of the first area to be literally impossible. Holy poo poo I get hit once and I might as well just put the controller down. What's extra frustrating is how many guys I have to kill again and again to get back to him, and I'm out of arrows.

Harrow fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 17:56

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Harrow posted:

Is there a particular element that the bosses are each weak to? I have Fire and Water talisman but I might as well use these onmyo skill points for something if it's worth it.

Also I find the axe oni on the roof in the latter part of the first area to be literally impossible. Holy poo poo I get hit once and I might as well just put the controller down. What's extra frustrating is how many guys I have to kill again and again to get back to him, and I'm out of arrows.

Takes only 2 or 3 firebombs to kill him

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





Roof oni goes in roof hole. Not necessary to fight. Also the village enemies are mostly skippable if you hug the left wall and go on the roof by the well

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I always try to replenish my arrows by sniping archers, trading 1 arrow for the 2-5 that they drop.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Listen, I like this demo and all, but dying instantly from full Life because I dodged backwards into fire is not okay. I understand taking damage from fire but when you're going to make me fight on small rooftops and a good third of each is on fire, that's a bit excessive.

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008


Yeah, fire is a bit much. Especially since being shot with a flaming arrow actually deals less damage!

I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


Harrow posted:

Listen, I like this demo and all, but dying instantly from full Life because I dodged backwards into fire is not okay. I understand taking damage from fire but when you're going to make me fight on small rooftops and a good third of each is on fire, that's a bit excessive.

Didn't see the zombie hiding in the smoke did you..

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


How much damage should I be doing to the first boss? I feel like I do chip damage to him at best and I'm two- or three-shotting most enemies in this area. But I can't seem to keep up the dance against the first boss long enough to wear down his health.

I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


Harrow posted:

How much damage should I be doing to the first boss? I feel like I do chip damage to him at best and I'm two- or three-shotting most enemies in this area. But I can't seem to keep up the dance against the first boss long enough to wear down his health.

Same.

I AM BRAWW
Jul 18, 2014

Ayy, she runnin' away from my weed like it farted.


HIS FUCKIN BALLS HAVE HUGE AOE (area of effect) AND ALWAYS SOMEHOW HIT ME, gently caress HIS HUGE BALLS

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch


I dunno, I felt the hitboxes and i-frames in this game seemed pretty fair and accurate. Getting hit is brutally punishing but at least he telegraphs all of his attacks like crazy.

Unlike Nue, that fucker. I never figured out the timing to half of his poo poo.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



if you're having trouble dodging his balls which definitely do have some wonky huge hitboxes take off all your armor so you get way longer rolls

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


I don't feel like it's possible to i-frame through his iron balls--it seems like their hitframes are active just long enough that you can't really iframe through them reliably without perfect timing. So I just take such a huge beating in the first phase that by the second phase I don't have any Elixirs left and I'm hosed if I get hit once.

Also I really hope they rework durability in the main game. I really don't want to have to go grind enemies with lovely weapons in the hopes that I can turn in their drops and hope I get some Whetstones because I keep dying to a boss. It's like Bloodborne's blood vials but worse.



Yeah, I don't think I'm completing this demo by May 5. I'd love to keep trying this boss but I need more than 3 Elixirs because I swear to gently caress there are unavoidable attacks in his ball-and-chain phase, and I'm out of Whetstones so the next time one of my two good weapons starts to break it's time to go grinding and I really hate that.

All durability mechanics in all action games should be abolished.

Harrow fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 21:09

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I literally just run away when he starts his big 360 swing and the run in and punish. Bait the forward slam and run around and punish.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





Harrow posted:

I don't feel like it's possible to i-frame through his iron balls--it seems like their hitframes are active just long enough that you can't really iframe through them reliably without perfect timing. So I just take such a huge beating in the first phase that by the second phase I don't have any Elixirs left and I'm hosed if I get hit once.

Also I really hope they rework durability in the main game. I really don't want to have to go grind enemies with lovely weapons in the hopes that I can turn in their drops and hope I get some Whetstones because I keep dying to a boss. It's like Bloodborne's blood vials but worse.



Yeah, I don't think I'm completing this demo by May 5. I'd love to keep trying this boss but I need more than 3 Elixirs because I swear to gently caress there are unavoidable attacks in his ball-and-chain phase, and I'm out of Whetstones so the next time one of my two good weapons starts to break it's time to go grinding and I really hate that.

All durability mechanics in all action games should be abolished.

yeah breakage should require consumables to fix but durability should refill if not broken at shrines if they are going to keep the system

man this demo hosed up my dark souls skills so bad i'm throwing emotes instead of dodging and drinking instead of attacking.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Snak posted:

I literally just run away when he starts his big 360 swing and the run in and punish. Bait the forward slam and run around and punish.

I mean, maybe he has a big enough tell on his spin attack that I could run away, but that isn't working for me. Trying to run away just means a ball is going to hit me in the back. I've had decent luck blocking it but (as is reasonable) the overhead swings can't be blocked so I just get crushed.

I'm out of Whetstones now so this gets one more try and then I think I'm done with the demo. I'd like the DLC you get for beating it but I don't want to have to grind to git gud

I don't think I've ever felt like a Souls game was legitimately too hard for me or something I could never actually pull off but the first loving boss of this is doing that to me and I'm kind of baffled. I don't understand how this could be so hard for me.

Harrow fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 21:32

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Harrow posted:

I mean, maybe he has a big enough tell on his spin attack that I could run away, but that isn't working for me. Trying to run away just means a ball is going to hit me in the back. I've had decent luck blocking it but (as is reasonable) the overhead swings can't be blocked so I just get crushed.

I'm out of Whetstones now so this gets one more try and then I think I'm done with the demo. I'd like the DLC you get for beating it but I don't want to have to grind to git gud

Yeah if you try to dodge backwards from upclose you won't get far enough away. I hung out at midrange waiting for the tell and then literally ran away.

I don't think I've ever had fewer than 5 wetstones. But yeah I guess if there's a big RNG influence there I could see that being super lame.

I am curious, and might test soon, how much fire resistance helps against getting instant-killed by the fire. I doubt it will help much, but throwing on ~40 lighting resist halved Nue's damage, so who knows.

Since it's a heavily gear an consumable-based game, it's not like Dark Souls where you want to skip enemies. While there's gonna be some overlap, I think the loot/farm aspect of this game is gonna mean that a big chunk of Soulsgames players won't be interested. That's fine, they are different games.

edit: ^this game is hard, but it's not the same style of hard as Souls. I'm sorry you're not having fun Maybe they will make some changes and you will like the finished product more

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Snak posted:

Yeah if you try to dodge backwards from upclose you won't get far enough away. I hung out at midrange waiting for the tell and then literally ran away.

I don't think I've ever had fewer than 5 wetstones. But yeah I guess if there's a big RNG influence there I could see that being super lame.

I am curious, and might test soon, how much fire resistance helps against getting instant-killed by the fire. I doubt it will help much, but throwing on ~40 lighting resist halved Nue's damage, so who knows.

Since it's a heavily gear an consumable-based game, it's not like Dark Souls where you want to skip enemies. While there's gonna be some overlap, I think the loot/farm aspect of this game is gonna mean that a big chunk of Soulsgames players won't be interested. That's fine, they are different games.

I'm fine doing some loot farming honestly, that's totally cool by me.

It just needs a shop, or more guaranteed Elixirs, or ditch Whetstones/Glue and only require you to spend resource to repair truly broken equipment. I get that making offerings and getting things like Elixirs or Whetstones back is supposed to kind of fill that role but to me it just feels like I'm praying for RNG to grant me absolutely vital resources and I'm not a big fan of that. Just let me buy some Elixirs with all this gold or something.

I'll grind for cool loot for hours, but I get really turned off when I have to grind for essentials. That I could buy Blood Vials in Bloodborne really helped with that.


EDIT: It's probably also this specific style of boss that really gets to me. It's a Capra Demon boss: the real enemy is the tiny room you're in. To this day Capra Demon destroys me in DS1, probably the only boss in the game that still does that to me, just because the tiny room gives you nowhere to go when poo poo goes down. This boss is the same kind of deal so I think I just have residual Capra anger.

I absolutely adore fighting human enemies in this. It's like Bushido Blade and it's a blast.

Harrow fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 21:42

Belzac
Mar 19, 2008

The third fracture I would do away with...I can't, sorry.

F R A C T U R E


This game is about being aggressive and never letting up. It sounds like you're over 70% equip load which is a death sentence. Get in the bosses face and side dash around any attack that isn't the swing. When he swings just block. Master Ki Pulse to have infinite stamina. Stop playing the game like Dark Souls.

If at any point in time you're pressing backwards on the left control stick you're probably going to die.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Belzac posted:

This game is about being aggressive and never letting up. It sounds like you're over 70% equip load which is a death sentence. Get in the bosses face and side dash around any attack that isn't the swing. When he swings just block. Master Ki Pulse to have infinite stamina. Stop playing the game like Dark Souls.

If at any point in time you're pressing backwards on the left control stick you're probably going to die.

I'm not over 70% equip load. 58% actually.

I'm really bad at Ki Pulse so maybe that's my problem.

Bugblatter
Aug 4, 2003
Belgium!

First boss is easily killed by doing on heavy high-stance axe attack, running to the other side of the room, then running back in tor one more heavy axe attack, and keep repeating. In the second phase you just keep running behind him until you see an opening, then do a single light high stance axe attack (can't reliable get a heavy off).

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



just assume you're not going to be able to iframe through his balls, dodge away from them. when he's swinging them overhead one at a time dodge in the opposite direction from the side he's swinging from. get one maybe two hits and then block his turn around swings, take your time. like with all yokai, overcommitting is death

don't try to get the full ki pulse, mash R1 as soon as your attack finishes so that you can move again as quickly as possible

lets hang out fucked around with this message at May 1, 2016 around 22:30

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





running laterally will make the balls miss every time

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


Yeah, blocking his spin doesn't work.

What direction am I supposed to run? Because both directions get me hit in the back.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

Now let me teach YOU a lesson


run whatever direction gets you behind him and stay there

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Don't talk to me or my cat ever again.


What are people doing differently from me that just running avoids the spin? Because no matter what I do it just hits me in the back if I do that. The best I can do is stay put and block and then it's just 50/50 whether I'm far enough away that the ball doesn't just hit me in the side anyway.

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