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C-SPAN Caller posted:Don't see why not, plus bernie too since you know, stuff he does matters for this movement. Wait you wanna hail Bernie? Neat.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:23
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:bernget:
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Apr 29, 2016 16:24
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hemophilia posted:The weird thing is it doesn't take very much to draw a line from banking hegemony to certain kinds of discrimination, like you know securing mortgages, or the housing crisis from you know 8 years ago having lots of minorities and non-minority but none the less low income families caught in the loving crossfire. It's really weird. It's not weird at all. The voices making that exact argument were rapidly silenced and devoured by idiots shrieking about privilege. Like there's just no way to pretend anymore that left identitarian politics aren't fundamentally a project of reconfiguring existing power structures to be more "inclusive" without disrupting their basic purpose. For as long as I've been an activist the story was always "oh, we have to resist this sort of universalizing narrative about economic power because otherwise what's going to happen is we're going to reproduce various systems of oppression within a Marxist opposition that only sees class." But now more than ever its just obvious what that strategy actually amounts to: widening avenues for entry into the ruling class for women and minorities, so long as they'll agree to a basic neo liberal platform and work to diffuse and manage radical opposition within the communities they've been appointed to represent within the mainstream political discourse. It leads to Obama, basically.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:24
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Classic Comrade posted:maybe we should make a new/edited version of that list? supporting sanders does not equal being a progressive. for example donna edwards endorsed clinton but she seemed like a very cool and good candidate (who unfortunately lost). Did you guys make the spreadsheet or is it from the subreddit? If it is the latter you need to explain to all of them why that guy is a shitlord.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:25
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If you were to make a 'test' to identify good progressive candidates what kind of positive traits would define that term, and by what negative traits wouldyou idenitify 'crazies' and national socialists and poo poo like that
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Apr 29, 2016 16:25
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Woozy posted:It's not weird at all. The voices making that exact argument were rapidly silenced and devoured by idiots shrieking about privilege. Like there's just no way to pretend anymore that left identitarian politics aren't fundamentally a project of reconfiguring existing power structures to be more "inclusive" without disrupting their basic purpose. For as long as I've been an activist the story was always "oh, we have to resist this sort of universalizing narrative about economic power because otherwise what's going to happen is we're going to reproduce various systems of oppression within a Marxist opposition that only sees class." But now more than ever its just obvious what that strategy actually amounts to: widening avenues for entry into the ruling class for women and minorities, so long as they'll agree to a basic neo liberal platform and work to diffuse and manage radical opposition within the communities they've been appointed to represent within the mainstream political discourse. It leads to Obama, basically. "Equal rights for our community...'s affluent members to step on the necks of the poor."
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Apr 29, 2016 16:26
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hemophilia posted:If you were to make a 'test' to identify good progressive candidates what kind of positive traits would define that term, and by what negative traits wouldyou idenitify 'crazies' and national socialists and poo poo like that That's a fantastic question and I have no idea 
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Apr 29, 2016 16:26
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empireofcrime posted:gently caress you Reuters. Do they just like to pretend Democratic socialism isn't more left than centrist corporate current politics of most democrats? Like don't get me wrong anti establishment people will love to spite vote but I don't want a Trump presidency directly on my conscious, and will just vote Jill Stein or Bernie Sanders write in in the presidential slot.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:28
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In other news, I'm the tech chair on my local committee for the city controller, as well as getting stronger ties with our local public radio.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:30
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NumberLast posted:I'm down to try it! DEW ITCH /palpatine voice
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Apr 29, 2016 16:30
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Goetta posted:Did you guys make the spreadsheet or is it from the subreddit? If it is the latter you need to explain to all of them why that guy is a shitlord. its from the reddit.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:31
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hemophilia posted:If you were to make a 'test' to identify good progressive candidates what kind of positive traits would define that term, and by what negative traits wouldyou idenitify 'crazies' and national socialists and poo poo like that Probably a list of where the candidate differs from Sanders and evaluating which difference is reasonable and which are deal breakers. Like a candidate could support Sanders positions on campaign finance and health care but thinks free tuition won't work for reason x, which is fine. Switching out the free tuition difference for, say, banning abortion wouldn't be fine. Or, going the other way, seizing the means of production. Stuff that makes you completely incompatable with being a Democrat. e: Using Sanders as a comparison not because he is so ideal god of political truth but because his positions are clearly known to his supporters.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:31
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C-SPAN Caller posted:Don't see why not, plus bernie too since you know, stuff he does matters for this movement. ya i will remind ppl that bernie stuff is secondary though. local/state/federal peeps are the main focus.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:32
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NumberLast posted:"Equal rights for our community...'s affluent members to step on the necks of the poor." yyyyyup. establishment_democrat.txt
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Apr 29, 2016 16:33
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NumberLast posted:That's a fantastic question and I have no idea I'm sure you have ideas in your head and i'm thinking you should write them out. A Here's one: - shifting tax burden off the low and middle class. At the state level, abolition or reduction of regressive taxation, At the federal level redefining tax brackets, closing loopholes, outlawing certain kinds of economic activity. Tax burden is a big deal, and if you have someone riding on progressive momentum yet they seem fairly disinterested in who has to pay the bills, that's a big loving red flag.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:33
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Like you can use the bernie platform as a positive template but he isn't perfect and the ultimate goal is to make an easy method to screen progressive candidates. Like if you could come up with 5-10 points to test a candidate on while looking for a similar number of red flags you'd have a decent test to screen a crowd-sourced item like that reddit candidate sheet. Obviously you can tear a candidate down on an individual basis but these guys may be popping up in a lot of districts in a lot of places, and if names start getting thrown around it'll always be handy to have a reliable sheet of tenets and red flags to expect and look for.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:37
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Goetta posted:Probably a list of where the candidate differs from Sanders and evaluating which difference is reasonable and which are deal breakers. I like this
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Apr 29, 2016 16:37
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hemophilia posted:Like you can use the bernie platform as a positive template but he isn't perfect and the ultimate goal is to make an easy method to screen progressive candidates. Like if you could come up with 5-10 points to test a candidate on while looking for a similar number of red flags you'd have a decent test to screen a crowd-sourced item like that reddit candidate sheet. Obviously you can tear a candidate down on an individual basis but these guys may be popping up in a lot of districts in a lot of places, and if names start getting thrown around it'll always be handy to have a reliable sheet of tenets and red flags to expect and look for. this too, but I agree with Goetta that comparing to Bernie's platform is a good place to start
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Apr 29, 2016 16:38
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hemophilia posted:Like you can use the bernie platform as a positive template but he isn't perfect and the ultimate goal is to make an easy method to screen progressive candidates. Like if you could come up with 5-10 points to test a candidate on while looking for a similar number of red flags you'd have a decent test to screen a crowd-sourced item like that reddit candidate sheet. Obviously you can tear a candidate down on an individual basis but these guys may be popping up in a lot of districts in a lot of places, and if names start getting thrown around it'll always be handy to have a reliable sheet of tenets and red flags to expect and look for. Yes, it would just take good old work to evaluate each one. There probably isn't a simple way around it.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:39
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also general fun fact if u go to ur state's secretary of state website u can probably find a PDF on how 2 run for office, in ur state  it's a little too late for RI iirc (just from glancing at it) but still check ur state's rules out!
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Apr 29, 2016 16:41
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Breadallelogram posted:this too, but I agree with Goetta that comparing to Bernie's platform is a good place to start Like I said, I think that's a good positive template but i'd still want to take a crack to boiling his platform down into a few ideas, and it's not really a good 'negative' template. A Bernie litmus test is fine until you get a candidate who is 9/10 of a bernie sanders up to the point he starts advocating eugenics and racial purity.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:42
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hemophilia posted:If you were to make a 'test' to identify good progressive candidates what kind of positive traits would define that term, and by what negative traits wouldyou idenitify 'crazies' and national socialists and poo poo like that What do you think of Assad? What do you think of Putin?" If you get apologism for any of the above, you've got a 'crazy'.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:44
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fade5 posted:"What do you think of Stalin? pretty good baseline
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Apr 29, 2016 16:45
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NumberLast posted:Hey, friend! Fuckin' A, this is exactly what I wanted to exist. We need to keep this up-to-date at all times. Marking the Iowa congressional primary on my calendar~
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Apr 29, 2016 16:49
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FreakerByTheSpeaker posted:Oh hey, the band got back together! did you try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI
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Apr 29, 2016 16:51
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fade5 posted:"What do you think of Stalin? now I'm a crazy? Or if I say Russia's not that great and neither is Putin but he's probably not the devil and in fact isn't one of the world's big problems because why would he be... I'm crazy? Like you can be left wing and it's fine but once you start opposing the condoned imperialist line on things it's no good?
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Apr 29, 2016 16:54
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https://twitter.com/ckilpatrick/status/726076619635474432
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Apr 29, 2016 16:55
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Fast Luck posted:So like if I say hey maybe we should stop training and arming and spending millions of dollars to send violent rebels and terrorists in to fight Assad, and maybe if we're serious about combating terrorism we should allow Assad to reestablish his secular state instead of meddling in another country in only a more subtle way than we did in Libya and Iraq, does that count as apologism?
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Apr 29, 2016 16:55
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hemophilia posted:If you were to make a 'test' to identify good progressive candidates what kind of positive traits would define that term, and by what negative traits wouldyou idenitify 'crazies' and national socialists and poo poo like that Here is my fake effort post. These things I look for are very broad, but if they are absent it's a red flag for me if we're talking national candidates. However, there is a lot of room for differences based on preferred strategy, support for particular pieces of legislation, etc. - real campaign finance reform - stricter rules on lobbyists' writing of legislation (this one is difficult because of conflicting definitions of lobbyist, and certainly many lobbyists are doing decent stuff) - be willing to acknowledge systemic racism and not just with regard to police or the court system, although those are potentially easiest to address through policy - support for pay equity - support for immigration reform (making things easier, not deporting people who are here just for being here; I don't support total open immigration so that's another deal where we progressives can argue about stuff) - STRONG advocate for progressive taxation (particular proposals vary a lot, I care especially about taxing capital gains more for example) - extreme caution in engaging in military ventures (I think I am less opposed to alternate forms of influencing foreign decision making than many people here but it is super situation specific and so I think a demonstrated opposition to interventions like Iraq and Libya are probably the most general thing....) - IDEALLY someone who wants to advocate for more infrastructure spending programs administered at the federal level, for both the infrastructure itself (safety, economic effects, long term security) and because I think it is the best way to stimulate economic activity - must believe that the US should be preparing intensively for climate change and altering that path (this might be the one with the most variation actually) - movement to single payer It's much more difficult to gauge progressivism in local candidates, and not just due to lack of information. Many communities, especially large ones, have big issues where it's easier to tell, but in many, many more we're talking pot hole budgets, zoning regulations and "what if we fund this clinic instead of the general health program" type stuff that is difficult to assess. Negatives: - ummmmmmmm not doing stuff above - support for anti vaccination people (i don't care if they support alternative medicine, though judging from the Bernie thread this a thing that matters a great deal to some progressives) - shying away from prosecuting financial crimes - people who refuse to be tainted by working with moderates or conservatives on something out of ~purity~ - supporting charter schools as an alternative to public education instead of a selectively used and regulated complement
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Apr 29, 2016 16:55
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StrangeAeon posted:Fuckin' A, this is exactly what I wanted to exist. We need to keep this up-to-date at all times. keep reading the thread; fiegen is A Crappy Candidate.  i would use that list as a starting point for further research instead of using it as a be-all-end-all kinda deal
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Apr 29, 2016 16:57
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Some also don't seem to care that which candidates are running influences whether or not the independents actually show up, and what type of independents actually show up. e: Breadallelogram posted:pretty good baseline I was just reading a music article and read this as "bassline", "What do you think of Stalin?" could be a pretty good tune. Hannot has issued a correction as of 17:03 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 17:00
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I believe Hillary's foreign policy specifically, but basically the whole establishment line, includes the preference that a nation to become a failed state over it being in someone's orbit other than our own. In that way Iraq and Libya aren't even the colossal failures they appear to be, and in that way also it even makes sense that we're supporting literal al Qaeda affiliated groups against Assad. It's basically flat out evil when you consider all the death and misery involved in this sort of foreign policy (all under the guise of furthering democracy, which obviously isn't the real goal, just look at our attitude toward Egypt's coup government or the classic example of the Saudi monarchy). This is what makes Tulsi Gabbard's surprising opposition so revolutionary and good.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:05
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In city and county elections, the type of issues you face and the powers you have, being 'progressive' nearly doesn't matter. Board Of Education is the most political position in Texas that's below the state level. It's the nature of a city's issues. My grandfather is a lifelong republican in the old school sense but if you saw what he did as mayor you would suspect a progressive. The exception is, school board, where you can influence curriculum and where money goes, it's less powerful at the local level than it ever has been but it's still very important and basically the only time you should be treating a local candidate lie a state or federal candidate
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Apr 29, 2016 17:06
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Haze Thank Liberty posted:Here is my fake effort post. these all sound good to me. progressive taxation is an extremely important position for any Rhode Island local candidate, imv. we are pretty drat awful when it comes to our track record in that area. Providence is in massive debt and one of [mayor] Elorza's solutions was to.... hike taxes on apartment tenants. it's already very expensive to live in Providence, and Elorza made it even worse. that has to change. systemic racism + its link to both economic and criminal justice issues is also a very big area for Rhode Island--namely Providence, again-- and yet another area elorza is lacking in.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:07
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Haze Thank Liberty posted:I was just reading a music article and read this as "bassline", "What do you think of Stalin?" could be a pretty good tune. ♫ seinfeld transition music ♫
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Apr 29, 2016 17:10
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Seriously if you get into your local elections and you find somebody running for a council seat or mayor and they push a typical state or national agenda you should not vote for them no matter how clearly they believe and agree with all the things you believe and agree with. the council doens't need abortion debates they need people who are willing to raise and appropriate money to fix potholes or pave a road.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:14
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hemophilia posted:Seriously if you get into your local elections and you find somebody running for a council seat or mayor and they push a typical state or national agenda you should not vote for them no matter how clearly they believe and agree with all the things you believe and agree with. the council doens't need abortion debates they need people who are willing to raise and appropriate money to fix potholes or pave a road. I think Centre-left candidates love talking about social issues because it doesn't cost any money to implement. So they get to appear progressive while being a *~fiscal conservative 
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Apr 29, 2016 17:20
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my best friend's cat that he just adopted had KITTENS last night and I've been looking after them today. Added to my sister being preggers, I am just SWIMMING in babies over here. yeesh. just fyi, thread.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:33
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a primate posted:I think Centre-left candidates love talking about social issues because it doesn't cost any money to implement. So they get to appear progressive while being a *~fiscal conservative Extremely true. It's very easy to play the D vs. R game by bringing in irrelevant issues in elections of unglamorous but influential local seats because lots of people aren't looking seriously at the local candidates' differences unless there is a school controversy (to speak to hemophilia's board issue) or some controversial development project. YOU A loving HAT posted:my best friend's cat that he just adopted had KITTENS last night and I've been looking after them today. Added to my sister being preggers, I am just SWIMMING in babies over here. yeesh. tell him to name them after revolutionaries and give them each hats appropriate to their era and affiliation, tia
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Apr 29, 2016 17:41
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I'd add a serious interest in climate change to the list of progressive-hopeful policies. This effects most levels of government since climate change is a very large and complex topic affected by a number of things. As an example, I recently met with local metro council candidates and discussed plans to make the city more bike-friendly and encourage the bicycle as a real means of transport in areas where it makes sense. A sort of local contribution to the solution. On the higher end, you have energy policy being this chaotic thing that nobody seems to have a good handle on. I get that politicians aren't typically scientists, but the urgency of this issue is only increasing. Sanders is a huge turn-on because he explicitly speaks about this issue, but at the same time he is either silent or "basically against" nuclear power. Though I like to think he is swayable. This matters too on the local side of things since projects can be made more complicated by local opposition. I'm not asking that a public stance necessarily be made on nuclear power, since it's a non-starter for so many people, but you cannot be simultaneously serious about climate change and energy prosperity while being anti-nuke. Pre-emptively... If you read this and think "ok science nerd, we get that you have a hard-on for nuclear, but c'mon be serious" fine. I'm not interested in derailing this thread or doing your homework for you. However, if you have an opinion on anything that you arrived at simply because you heard it somewhere else first, you got issues. There is a power generation thread in D&D which is unfortunately made worse by willfully dense individuals, but I encourage reading through it. Kudaros has issued a correction as of 17:46 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 17:42
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