PC Building/Upgrading/Parts-picking Megathread Reloaded

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > PC Building/Upgrading/Parts-picking Megathread Reloaded

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Optical Drive: The one you selected is way too expensive - you can get BD-RE drives for that price, but finding 'the right one' is something even *I'm* not good at anymore, because even having an optical drive in a new build these days is becoming rare, so no one optical drive is lauded ~the best~ anymore. Look for M-Disc support - the media costs a fortune, but it's good archival-quality stuff.

There's really no discussion here about optical and backups. I know playing bluray movies is a fool's errand (that's what a standalone player is for), but for backup the options are cloud, tape, or optical. Cloud and tape are both active strategies - actively maintain multiple cloud accounts, make sure they don't all dissipate in the coming crash, etc. Tape is geared towards enterprise in-motion data retention - no long-term shelf life, expecting to be written to newer generation tape every few years.

So I'm looking at optical - M-disc BDR, specifically. Has anyone here used it/tested it? I figure I will also be able to offload less important information on normal organic-dye BDRs. If I haven't needed it in 5 years, I won't need it again. I don't buy the m-disc hype, but if it lasts my remaining lifespan that's good enough for me.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2016 07:27

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 02:05

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Asking this here as well as the SSD thread, since maybe someone here has built a system like this:

I want to put a NVMe SSD in an older MB without a M.2 slot. I've got a PCIe 2.0 x4 slot free, and a 3.0 x16 that's currently not-in-use (Not the same as free, since it will house a DGPU, eventually) The completely different things all being "M.2" is a terrible idea - SATA or PCIe, depending on a notch? Multiple keys, everyone has their own name for the interface (It's called Key M, NGFF or Socket 3 in different places, all referring to the same PCIe x4 connection)? Been building PCs for over 20 years and this is the first one that really bugs me with how vague everything is. It should be M.2-SATA or M.2-NVMe so it's clear what the hell you're getting, instead of having to look at a picture and count pins to the key to be sure.

Specifically, a 960 EVO in an Asrock H97M Pro4.

Would this work?

I think this would work, but I wanted to sanity check here before dropping $300 on hardware I can't use.

How much is it going to crimp the performance in a PCIe 2.0 instead of 3.0? If it's bad I may just either say 'gently caress a DGPU, that's what my gaming box is for' or put the video card in the PCIe2 slot since it won't take as much as a performance hit.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 13:27

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Eletriarnation posted:

I haven't tried it personally but to my understanding the big thing with getting the NVMe drive bootable is chipset support; if you have that, M.2 or PCIe slots should both work.

We should probably add this question to the OP because it comes up so often, but putting a PCIe 3.0 card in a board that only supports 2.0 (or an x8 3.0 slot, same thing basically) will not cause a noticeable difference in the vast majority of workloads. A PCIe 2.0 x16 slot can move 8GB/sec, which is plenty for the card itself to stay busy. It's also still twice the bandwidth of TB3 and that's not stopping people from releasing all these eGPU docks because even 4GB/sec is generally enough bandwidth to get 95+% of optimal performance. (If you have a system that's still PCIe 1.0... well, that's a bit of a relic but your ancient CPU and RAM will hold you back more than the slot.)

I know DGPU performance isn't limited by 2.0 x16, but it's a 2.0 x4 secondary slot. That should have some impact, no? That's 1/8th of what it's designed for.

As for NVMe: I did my own math, and PCIe2.0 would mean 30% performance hit, capping me out at 2000MB/s instead of 3200. Yowch. I'll probably buy a new board that's not so stingy on lanes before I get a DGPU then.

Thanks, I think this is trigger pulled on this one.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 00:46

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Quickie crosscheck here.

We've got a dying machine at work that nobody actually works at - it's there for scanning/printing and entering accounting info from said scanned receipts/invoices/etc.

Dell outlet doesn't sell win10 pro (the minimum I'd accept in an office) until you get into alienware crap, and the lowest-end stuff doesn't have enough RAM to run office anyway. Also has external power supplies to deal with where this takes normal ones.

Is this a celery or is it closer to an I3? I'm not sure exactly what Intel is doing with the pentium line. Any other rough edges?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H110M-ITX Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($61.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($55.39 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($99.88 @ OutletPC)
Case: Thermaltake Core V1 Mini ITX Tower Case ($42.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 300W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($138.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $499.10
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-27 16:13 EDT-0400

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 21:26

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Eletriarnation posted:

Are you only looking at the Home side of the outlet? All of the $300 Optiplexes I'm seeing have 10 Pro.

Almost and yes, respectively. For a few generations now Celerons and Pentiums (the ones that weren't Atoms) were the lowest-end desktop chips, basically an i3 without HT (and only 2MB of L2 cache on Celerons). With Kaby Lake, Intel has added HT to the Pentiums so there's very little difference between them and an i3 anymore - a bit of clock speed and a few niche features. They're a pretty good pick for price:performance.

Yup, I was looking at Inspirons. Optiplexes do have W10Pro. Double checking my options there:

I5-6500, 8GB 2133, DVD RW+, Quadro K420 2GB, Spinning rust, W10PRO for $460 + $100 to throw away the drive and reinstall on a SSD. Not entirely what I wanted but I suppose the optical won't be a problem. Let the other guys decide, they use it more than I do.

Thanks!

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 22:13

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Is there any chance of DDR3 prices coming back down? I went to toss another 8GB in my build from 2015 and the price has basically doubled from what I paid back then.

I suppose I could just ebay some 1x8s as people migrate to DDR4.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2017 00:55

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

BIG HEADLINE posted:

No one's making DDR3 anymore, so the only price cuts you're going to see will be the occasional "we're tired of this taking up space on a shelf" ones.

Also...2015? Make sure it's not DDR3L first before you look.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006YG9E7O It was $35 when I bought it.

People are still making DDR3 chips, since there's still a ton of popular phone ARM cores that use it. Maybe nobody is plopping them on DIMMS anymore, but DDR3 isn't completely EOL the way DDR2 is.

Khablam posted:

I'm really not sure PCIe lanes are a limitation at all beyond hard-limiting potential SLI configs on cheaper chipsets or RAID0 hacks.

When 16x goes to the GPU and your 4x NVMe has to go through the chipset it can be a performance limiter, depending on various factors. 10GBE is a thing that's not too far in the future as well now that it's so trivial to saturate GBE off a home NAS.

It's not come to a head for most consumers yet, but designing new archs and being stingy with PCIe is really limiting their lifespan. IO isn't going to be coming in any slower in 3 years.

Harik fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jun 15, 2017

# ¿ Jun 15, 2017 02:11

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Well, I know at one point when it was down in the $120 range that I was about to swap my 2x8 1600 sticks with this: https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-2133MHz-HX321C11SRK2-16/dp/B00N9PVZG6 or https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-2400MHz-HX324C11SRK2-16/dp/B00N9PVZ3O

For a slightly cheaper option, there's this: https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-FURY-2x8GB-1866MHz/dp/B00J8E8Y5C

... but you answered my question the first time and I should have thanked you instead of arguing.

I5-4590 on an Asrock H97M PRO4 w/16gb ram. Already cramped due to not having dedicated NVMe so needing a card in the only 3.0 slot so as not to neuter my 960 EVO, which dumps the lesser-used GPU onto the 2.0 x8... $35 for another 8GB to dedicate to 1GB pages for the VM? Sure. Double or triple that for DDR3 in the middle of 2017? That's just throwing money away.

If I find something cheap on ebay I'll grab it, otherwise I'll just deal until I can afford to do a refresh to a platform that handles virtualization better.

Harik fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 15, 2017

# ¿ Jun 15, 2017 02:43

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

ultimateforce posted:

Huh, that's weird.

So it's worth slapping a new card in my board and letting it ride?

The subtitle of the thread could be "Still no upgrade for a 2500k", it really still is a great CPU. PCIe 2.0 vs 3.0 doesn't really make a difference in games, so you're left deciding if faster RAM and marginal gains in IPC are worth paying for a complete new platform. Get a new PSU, because 2011 is too old to trust, and buy a better GPU.

Given your uncertanty about your CPU speed, make sure your RAM is set to XMP profile. I accidentally ran mine for years at 1600 and the bump to 1866 with correct timings was noticeable on benchmarks. Depending on your SSD size a 512GB 850 EVO may be helpful too, so you don't have to run games off the spinner.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 22:06

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Paul MaudDib posted:

Sandy Bridge isn't unplayable but 5 years of "marginal IPC gains" do add up to a processor that is significantly faster. In some titles the difference is now rather significant.

That is true, but you don't really see that without a 1070 or better. In terms of "I have a 2500k, should I upgrade?" the answer is still "Save the money and buy a better GPU."

I'll point out that the other games in that benchmark aren't remotely CPU starved and the FPS differences are in the noise. So in terms of gaming it's not going to hold you back until you go for high-refresh monitors on CPU intensive games. The productivity benchmarks, though, those surprised me.

Paul MaudDib posted:

Plus Kaby Lake does overclock farther on average than even a good Sandy Bridge chip.

Isn't that a new phenomenon? I thought after sandy bridge Intel started releasing chips with base clocks closer to the OC wall rather than leaving it for you to pick up via OC. I know a max OC'd Sandy could hold it's own against a max OC broadwell, but I didn't follow beyond that.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 22:30

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Paul MaudDib posted:

Not really. Sandy Bridge was an abnormally good OC'er, it wasn't until Kaby Lake that Intel managed to surpass it. Most of the processors in between didn't OC as well as Sandy and many of them had fairly terrible TIM that required delidding to get anywhere near peak performance.

Kaby is really kind of unique in that a random chip stands a good chance of hitting at least 5.0 GHz on air. Even Sandy Bridge couldn't do that, 5.0 took a real good chip and some serious cooling.

(at least KBL can do it until the TIM migrates and you start overheating, then it's back to delidding)

I'm not sure what "Not really" applies to here, unless we're describing the same thing in two different ways. Sandy was a phenomenal overclocker, and apparently Kaby is too. In between, meh. "meh" was what I was trying to convey - a solid sandy overclock looked really good compared to every chip before KBL.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 08:36

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

I need a new desktop at work, specifically for doing compiles. Lots of compiles. Android build, ARM linux build, our software, our app, etc. Zero gaming, the only reason for a GPU is Ryzen doesn't have an APU.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($77.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($126.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: XFX - Radeon RX 460 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($108.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define Mini C with Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($132.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus - VA32AQ 31.5" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($270.00 refurbished)
Keyboard: EagleTec - KG010 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($44.92 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech - M705 Wireless Laser Mouse ($23.52 @ Best Buy)
Total: $1337.24

Can I run dual-GPU on B350? Not SLI, a separate GPU to do hardware passthrough virtualization.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 02:02

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Paul MaudDib posted:

That's a solid point and I would agree, you may want to give Ryzen a pass on that basis alone. Cross-compiling may make you run into all kinds of edge cases that might not even be getting exercised yet.

Pretty sure VT-d/IOMMU is hosed up on first-gen Ryzen too so that kills the other half of your use-case too.

Threadripper would do if it's a new stepping with those bugs fixed. Otherwise how about a Xeon E3-1230 V5?

I think the IOMMU problems were sorted out with AGESA 1.0.0.6 (when they enabled PCIe Access Control Services that were left off for whatever reason). I'm bouncing that off the VFIO people and they're reporting that it now works properly.

It does sound like you can't use Ryzen for... well I guess anything serious right now. If you can cause random errors when doing compilation you don't know what kind of corruption happens in string-heavy computation.

I'm hoping that it's just this:
http://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/commitdiff/b48dd28447fc8ef62fbc963accd301557fd9ac20
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/for...5498#post955498

It would make sense: it seems random because ASLR moves the stack around, and it only crashes when the stack is butting up against the end of the virtual address space. Turning off ASLR seems to fix it entirely.

I know if I buy an I7 this poo poo will be fixed the next day, ugh. It's why I'm not happy about buying right now, but I don't really have a choice (onboarding another dev).

I'll take this to the AMD thread for any more technical discussion.

What would the E3 system look like? And is there any problem with the RX-460? It's apparently no good for butt-mines so you can buy it.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 03:56

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Paul MaudDib posted:

I didn't want to say it because then I get bagged on for hating AMD but yeah if it's segfaulting in compilation something's not working right, how sure are you your output binaries didn't get screwed during this process? There is no call to be using bleeding-edge hardware in the delivery portion of the toolchain when that's obviously problematic for this processor. Embedded hardware is difficult enough to debug as it is, you don't want mystery bugs from compilation because you're the first person to try using some random-rear end embedded cross-compiler. A lot of that poo poo is obscure and terrible enough already as it is.

Hah! There's reasons deliverables happen on a non-overclocked server with ECC ram. That's one of them, the other being "gently caress whatever random library/compiler versions are on a dev's workstation when he builds."

Reproducibility is great.

Does the Kabylake i7-7700 non-k have the same thermal issues the unlocked version does?

I'm thinking that + Asrock B250M Pro4 since I have zero interest in overclocking at work.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 06:15

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

As much as I want to help AMD, I can't justify putting a Ryzen in for business until they fix their glitches. Come on AMD, help me out here.

Cross check this I7 for me:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($292.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock - B250M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($74.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: XFX - Radeon RX 460 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($108.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define Mini C with Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($132.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus - VA32AQ 31.5" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($270.00)
Keyboard: EagleTec - KG010 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($44.92 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech - M705 Wireless Laser Mouse ($23.52 @ Best Buy)
Total: $1420.25

Thoughts? Put in the -K even without overclocking for the better base clocks? Drop the GPU entirely and use the iGPU? It's driving 1440x2160, singlehead, running visual studio/android studio etc. No CAD or anything.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 23:31

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Ok, dropped the GPU and moved the money into a Z270, -K processor and Cryorig H7. Good catch, thanks!

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($361.14 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.55 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z270M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($121.67 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($128.38 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($235.38 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Define Mini C with Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($74.88 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($85.49 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($30.00)
Monitor: Asus - VA32AQ 31.5" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($270.00)

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 00:53

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Here's a good chunk of savings on the 7700K: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391685219289

(evidently you can save an additional $15 if you use PayPal and the coupon code MROUSNK6JGV8TBM at checkout - the coupon expires tomorrow)

They're selling it for $349.99 on their website.

Also, the 650W G3 is $69.99 after rebate for the next six days at Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438094

You rock so hard, thanks.

I should have everything here wednesday or thursday, and I can finally kick this A8-3870 to the dumpster where it belongs.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 03:09

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Appreciate the help deciding on boxes for work, I bought 3 and all the parts should be here Wednesday.

Home question: What's a good UPS brand nowadays? I can either buy one or grab an older APC shell and replace the batteries.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 05:51

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Wanted to say thanks, you guys rock. I wouldn't recommend the Corsair carbide 100R, but the shipping on the fractal designs were obscene. It's just missing some of what I'd expect from a case - insufficent room behind the MB for cable routing, the MB is wedged hard against the top of the case so you can't have the 8-pin power come up from behind, the routing holes don't have gaskets, etc. It'll probably get much more dusty too, without a properly filtered positive-pressure setup.

I've loaded it down with docker containers, a few KVMs and CI runners and it's still snappy to work on. NVMe makes a huge difference with that much stuff going on.

Pairs up nicely with a 32" IPS.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 00:18

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Cellphones all use DDR4 now, and they're basically disposable. I don't know what the biggest driver is, but there's a lot of phones getting built.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2018 21:37

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

bitprophet posted:

Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($92.00)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($149.00 @ B&H)

Storage: Crucial - MX500 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($184.89 @ OutletPC)

If you don't have time to play with the overclock on the easiest processor to overclock ever, you absolutely don't have time to be juggling your tiny storage. It's cheaper and larger, and the mx500 is a solid drive.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2018 09:32

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 2920X 3.5 GHz 12-Core Processor ($649.99 @ Newegg Business)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U12S TR4-SP3 54.97 CFM CPU Cooler ($74.79 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Taichi ATX TR4 Motherboard ($304.98 @ Newegg Business)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($370.98 @ Newegg Business)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB NITRO+ Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) (Purchased For $0.00)
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB NITRO+ Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Fractal Design - Design Define R6 USB-C - TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($139.99 @ Newegg Business)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Nixeus - NX-EDG27 v2 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor ($428.00)
Total: $2233.47

The use-case is VFIO, or "run windows in a VM but give it it's own PCIe videocard and dedicated cores+ram+disk".

Notes:
* Buying this week unless there's a super-compelling reason to wait for something
* The threadripper is a seatwarmer until the zen2 threadrippers land whenever that ends up being.
* I've got a 30TB fileserver for bulk storage, don't need any rust in this one.
* I'm not actually doing crossfire but PCPP can't handle asymetrical videocards so I put the second in as a placeholder. Right now it's a 270x for the linux host but I'm planning on seeing what the nvidia die shrink brings and may swap things around.
* The monitor is the V2, PCPP doesn't have it listed yet so I linked to amazon.

Questions:
* Is the Define R6 USB-C the replacement for the Define C? I'm used to defines but I'm not married to them if there's a better option. Planning on putting in rads down the line.
* Is 750 watts enough for a 16-core CPU + 2x GPU + 10GBE or should I buy a bigger one now and save the hassle later?
* The RAM is samsung b-die, but it's rated for intel boards. I checked the QVL and keep running into discontinued lines, so that needs to be replaced.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2019 18:02

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Fliptwist posted:

I'm in the USA and I've been asked to put together a photo/video editing (mostly 1080p some 4k) station for around $1600 (+/- $100 is fine) for just the PC hardware and this is what I have so far:

PCPartPicker part list

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($152.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($347.89 @ Amazon)

Open to suggestions as well on better/more cooling than the good old Hyper212 as well.

Why not just use the cooler that comes with the 2700x? The Wraith coolers are solid and as good as a 212 here in 2019.

You don't need a -PRO NVMe unless you have some really crazy-specific workload. Video editing is getting close to that of that but the 970-evo is still moving 1.6 gigabytes per second with hundreds of thousands of IOPS, it should be overkill for your needs.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2019 18:53

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

orange juche posted:

The only thing I might say is that the threadripper might be a bit warm under that noctua because of the 180w TDP.

Stickman posted:

I'd consider spending a little extra for the Thermalright-SilverArrow TR4 - it'll give a bit more PBO performance and a bit more wiggle room if you decide to upgrade to a mid/upper-range Zen 2 Threadripper. (E: I guess if it's just a placeholder, there might be no need)

That's a good point, it's significantly hotter than basically any of my CPUs to this point and we have no idea what the wattage of zen2 will look like. I'll happily upgrade the cooler to something better. How do AIOs compare in the 180w range?

Stickman posted:

The Define C is still available. The Define R6 is bigger a case (543L x 233W x 465H mm vs 413L x 210W x 453H) and has a few additional niceties, like a hinged front that can open for additional cooling, stock 140mm fans (vs 120mm), an additional bottom radiator mounting point + support for 360/420!mm radiators on the top mounting point, and a removable HDD stack area. The USB C versions adds a front-panel 3.1 Gen 2 USB C port, but your X399 doesn't have a Gen 2 front panel header, so you might as well stick to the non-USB C version if you go with the R6.

quote:

2 USB 3.1 Gen2 10Gb/s (1 Type-A + 1 Type-C), 12 USB 3.1 Gen1 (4 Front, 8 Rear)

Goddamnit, good catch. So is the front panel entirely unusable with a gen1 header or do I just lose out on the USB-C? I may buy a PCIe USB card to pass-through to windows directly instead of sharing with the host, and if that has front panel connectors it might still be useful, dunno. Case is up in the air and I have the S2 listed in the parts right now but haven't decided.

Sorry you wrote the paragraph about the C vs R6 when I got confused and was comparing the S2 with the R6. I was looking at the C for my wife's case and got mixed up.

Stickman posted:

If you have everything cranking on all cylinders, you'd be looking at 200W each for the cards + 200W+ish for the TR + other stuff in the system, so you'd be bumping up close to the 750W.

True. It's not dual 580s, but anything I put in there is going to be 200w or more. EVGA Supernova G3 850w make more sense?

Stickman posted:

QVL Ram is a pita. If you don't mind CL16, this Trident kit is QVL, and this Hyper-X kit is QVL for 3333MHz (which would offset CL16 a bit). Since ram latency generally has an extremely minor (if any) impact on performance, I wouldn't stress about CL14/3200 too much.

Only reason I cared about CL14 was people with b-die CL14 parts had better luck with running them full speed. Those look good to me.

PCPartPicker part list

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 2920X 3.5 GHz 12-Core Processor ($649.99 @ Newegg Business)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright - SilverArrow TR4 130 CFM CPU Cooler ($96.28 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Taichi ATX TR4 Motherboard ($304.98 @ Newegg Business)
RAM: HyperX Predator HX433C16PB3K4/32, 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) 3333 MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM 1.35 V 288-Pin XMP Memory Kit - Black ($269.62 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB NITRO+ Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) (Purchased For $0.00)
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB NITRO+ Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Fractal Design - Define S2 Black � TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ Newegg Business)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Nixeus EDG 27" IPS 2560 x 1440 AMD FreeSync Certified 144Hz Gaming Monitor with Base Stand (NX-EDG27S v2) ($427.98 @ Amazon)
Total: $2333.58

E: Bumped to a 850w PSU, better cooler and QVL RAM.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2019 21:13

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Stickman posted:

I don't have personal experience here, but on the consumer side you have to get up to the top-line 360mm aios before they start being cooler/quieter than top-end air coolers. Just going from Gamersnexus' threadripper AIO review and the Silver Arrow's Precision Boost 2 thermals (where the voltage isn't being pushed to the thermal limit like PBO), I'd guess that the Silver Arrow's cooling is probably right around the level of the Enermax Liqtech 240, and the 360 would be a bit of a boost (though not a ton).

E: The Liqtechs seem to be discontinued, or at least out-of-stock, and reviews indicate reliability issues. I'd check out reviews for other TR4 aios. The HardOCP review shows a waterblock cooler giving better performance but that's... a lot more work/cost.

E2: The Alphacool Eisbaer 420 apparently has a coldplate big enough to cover a threadripper, has a TR4 mounting kit, and would fit in the Define S2/R6. I don't see any threadripper-specific reviews, though.

Sounds like air is the way to go then. If I'm feeling adventurous down the road I might run a custom loop but that's going to wait until I see where GPUs end up. No point in slapping a waterblock on a 580, they cost as much as/more than the card does.

Thanks for the info and links.

Stickman posted:

The non-type C front panel ports will work fine (they're usb 3.0/3.1 Gen 1), and the X399 has a Gen 2 type-C on the back panel if you ever end up needing one!

Great, I was worried about another generational incompatibility from the industry that still hasn't managed to standardize the loving power/reset/LED header.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2019 22:12

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Crosspostin'

Harik posted:

Yay my new $650 threadripper arrived

THE ACTUAL gently caress.

E: At least the rest of the poo poo doesn't get here until friday, I have time to get them to resend me one overnight.

That'll teach me to order something on satan's page. I thought the threadripper boxes were well-designed?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2019 04:12

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Stickman posted:

I missed that, embarrassing! Even Intel's integrated graphics are about 5x more powerful than a 6350, so you should be fine either way

Yeesh. It's painful to look at!

Fun part is I get to buy another one full price and they'll refund this one "eventually".

# ¿ Mar 7, 2019 04:36

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Stickman posted:

Who�d you buy from? Sounds like a good one to put on the �avoid� list...

I'd absolutely advise never buying from amazon, they have the worst packaging.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2019 04:47

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Stickman posted:

Ah is the �buy a new one� just to get it faster, then?

Yeah, they take up to a week or so to process refunds and won't cross-ship or anything. Pain in the rear end and I'm going to see about getting credit tomorrow.

I'm really only out $200 because I bought the second one on their pay over 5 months plan, so I'll just pay it off as soon as the refund hits.

Topical: Don't pack poo poo like this what the gently caress is wrong with you:

# ¿ Mar 7, 2019 05:06

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

It's supposed to look like this, right? So far I'm 0 for 2. At least the second $700 CPU arrived still secured in its display case.

Seriously though, how's Fractal Design's support for things like this? It's not hard to take the front panel off and I'd rather just replace that than the whole case, especially since it's tempered glass and that arrived intact.

Harik fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 8, 2019

# ¿ Mar 8, 2019 02:38

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

future ghost posted:

This is why I went with a Phanteks case this round instead of the Define XL I originally picked out. Every single YouTube review of the case either had dents, weird scratches, or a loose front panel in some way. I could chalk one up to bad shipping, but if they were sent to reviewers from the manufacturer like that? Didn't want to risk it. No complaints about the Enthoo I picked instead thankfully.

Makes sense. I just want it to keep matching my full set of define cases going back to the R2. This is the first one I've had dented like this though.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2019 17:22

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Built and stable, but the ATX cable tangle is an eyesore. EVGA Supernova G3, has a tiny little segment before it hits heatshrink and it's not something I can just throw a comb on. Anyone ever mod theirs/get pre-modded cables? I have no idea where to even look.

e: I found them, but a basic cablemod set costs as much as the PSU did. I'll probably sleeve the worst offenders myself.

That's an idea, but I have't figured out how to get into that area on the Define S2 yet. It's gotta be accessible, people mount rads in there, but I didn't see an obvious way to remove it.
VVV

Harik fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Mar 13, 2019

# ¿ Mar 13, 2019 22:48

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

One thing I forgot to mention that people really should know - the VRM heatsinks on the x399 Taichi are razor sharp. In the "You can clean-shave with them if hefting this MB around was doable" meaning, not as hyporbole. I was fitting my CPU heatsink on when I pressed the edge with my knuckle - not slid along, pressed. Zero pain, lots of blood. Sharper than any 90's era case ever was.

I can't stress how surprisingly sharp they are enough. They're covered in a plastic film - leave the film on until you are finished building. I took it off when I thought I was done but I had to adjust my fan cable routing and that's when it nailed me.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2019 01:26

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 02:05

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Fantastisk posted:

Thanks! What's your reasoning behind those changes? Also, do I not need a CPU cooler?
Seems like we can't get Inland here, other than that I can find all of it - it's a bit more expensive than the build I posted (9663 NOK vs 9046 NOK keeping the same SSD). My price cutoff is at ~10000 NOK though, so that's fine if it's an improvement performance-wise.

In addition to what Stickman said, the Silicon Power 1tb NVMe is identical to the inland premium - same controller, same flash, different label. It goes for around $125 USD Newegg Amazon.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2019 23:05

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