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I like Accords for some dumb reason, specifically 90's Accords. I've owned a bunch of them but the unicorn for me was always a 4th gen manual wagon, AKA the CB9. About a year and a half back I found one. Here it is, and only 129,000 miles!  Looks pretty good eh? Well it's a pile of poo poo. Don't get me wrong, the body is near perfect, no rust(!), a few minor dents, and good paint. The interior is similarly pretty good. Mechanically it's unmolested, but otherwise it's been and continues to be a mess. This car's story is stereotypical of that era of inexpensive yet doggedly reliable Japanese imports. Basically it was what I call a "Kleenex car" (use it up and throw it away). I am the third owner, the first was an retired man in Florida. A smoker that rarely drove the car and basically never maintained it. The second was a kid in Columbia Missouri who abused it for a few months until his dad took it and sold it to me. I believe I gave the poor thing it's third or fourth oil change ever. All the other attendant fluids were likely original, given their color and consistency. Well I suppose that's not all true as it was leaking power steering fluid faster than it was drinking gas. In fact it was leaking every fluid it has and maybe even some it didn't. Where they were all coming from I'm not sure, I'm guessing a wormhole opens up under the hood when it's closed and all the disgusting lovely fluids from all the other cars that lose fluids and no-one can figure out where are magically transported to my car and subsequently deposited upon my driveway. As said before, mechanically it's a pile of poo poo. Every system is hosed in some way or another except the transmission. The transmission works flawlessly. Below I'm going to enumerate some of the problems I know of and/or have fixed thus far.
Despite all this, I've been continuing to nurse this car along, mending what I can based on priority and when I had time/money. The first thing to be fixed was the low oil pressure. The kid before me was jumping this thing. There is evidence throughout. The oilpan was smashed into the pickup tube, so swapping that out for a new RockAuto special fixed that plus a bunch of leaks. I also replaced the smashed exhaust system. Now it ran better, and with oil pressure too! That was nice. Next I fixed the steering. This poor car was dumping a lot of fluid from the power steering cooler, the pump itself howled and leaked right out the side of the case. Because of it's propensity to lose copious amounts of PS fluid, the system had obviously been run dry frequently, and the rack itself was worn the gently caress out from lack of lubrication. I mean three inches side-to-side play in the steering. A trip to the junkyard found me a serviceable cooler, plus a newish pump, a good steering rack, and a sporty lip for the front bumper just because. So now the car could drive without the engine eating itself, and you could steer it to your destination with confidence. Finally I went after the coolant leaks, with it losing fluid all the time, it was always want to overheat. Also my shoes fell apart that day. This would work on a monthly cycle or so. It get pissy and I'd refill it and go on my way. Eventually I replaced everything rubber plus the thermostat and radiator (and condenser just because) and refilled it. Despite this it tried to overheat again two days later. Despite a block test and compression test NOT indicating a headgasket failure, I poured a bottle of Mendtite in it and tried my damnedest to make it overheat again. It didn't and I figured everything was now OK-ish. Today it overheated again. So that's where I'm at and this thread will chronicle where I go from here. I'm not going to make the mistake again of selling a car I really like just because it's giving me fits. My plan for this car was an H22A swap, this may be happening sooner than later. I really wanted to build a turbo H22, but this can only happen if I can make the f22 live for a while longer while I source and assemble the necessary parts to build it, so I may go NA H22A just to get back on the road quickly. I was also hoping to get through the suspension build before motor time. I've not yet replaced the water pump, and the timing belt is an unknown quantity right now. Luckily I was given (fo free!) the entirety of the parts necessary to do a complete timing belt job minus the water pump itself. This will attack the oil leaks in the valve cover as well, so I'm going to go buy a waterpump and do that job. If it's still overheating after that, this motor is toast. trouser chili fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 16:30
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 13:39 |
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Your ITR is safe because I'm stealing this, motherfucker. I have been looking for a CB9 wagon to build a hilariously retarded F22A setup out of for some time.
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May 11, 2016 16:31
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In  . The condition of the body alone is worth swapping something into it, in my inexperienced opinion. Finding something that old that looks that good around here (MN) is quite rare.
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May 11, 2016 16:38
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Could you tell if the water pump was leaking? My guess is once you do the WP/TB it should be fine. If not yeah toss that fucker. Had a similar issue with my 200k mile Camry suspension and brake wise. Replaced every single worn suspension part (loaded struts are loving awesome btw) and replaced the pads and rotors and flushed the lines, the fluid was definitely original and the dirtiest brake fluid I have ever seen. After that the car now rides like new and the brakes are flawless. Hopefully you don't have any MC or booster issues though, my Miata shat a booster and it was a bitch.
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May 11, 2016 17:05
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If the coolant was original, seems like a decent chance the impeller in the water pump is just beyond trashed.
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May 11, 2016 17:25
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Strange thing is this morning when it started the overheating business again I looked at the lower rad hose, it's new but was looking kinda swollen. I tried squeezing it and it was pretty hard. I'm guessing I've got a blockage or maybe my new T-stat is garbage. This evening I'm going to pull the t-stat and try running the rest of the week without it. Also I'm gonna flush the system. Any recommendations on a good strong flushing agent? I don't care if it's mean, I'm ready to be mean to this car.
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May 11, 2016 17:41
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Thoro-Flush is pretty nasty poo poo. Make sure you wear gloves if you use it, ask me how I know. http://www.amazon.com/Irontite-Thoro-Flush-9110-16-16-oz/dp/B00JJ1FB28/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462985038&sr=8-1&keywords=thoro+flush
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May 11, 2016 17:44
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Thoro-flush it is. Look at it acting all nice now. Idling while I sit here writing this poo poo and it's rock solid. Car I'm gonna gently caress you up.
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May 11, 2016 18:14
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trouser chili posted:Car I'm gonna gently caress you up. This is the best thread. I know you've put a lot of work into it, but that's the kind of work that pays off. You're starting with a great platform, build the turbo fucker for it and drive it forever.
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May 11, 2016 18:25
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EVERYWHERE 
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I'm really starting to think this is some sort of blockage issue. I ran it to the parts store, then sat in the drive-through of a busy McDonalds (grilled chicken salad). I'd been driving normally and with it running idling the whole time rock solid, about a 30 minute trip in total. On a hunch as I left with my McFood, I revved the poo poo out of the motor. It started overheating within the two blocks it took to get back to work. Popped the hood and the lower was rock solid again. Something is in there and it's clogging something, and I think it's getting dislodged from where-ever it's resting when the pump is pushing the hardest. Here's hoping on the flush.
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May 11, 2016 18:54
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This really sounds like an old deadish water pump. Which on those cars was prone to being the worst part of the car. And a bad water pump will do strange things when it's hooked up to the timing belt.
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May 11, 2016 19:24
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trouser chili posted:I'm really starting to think this is some sort of blockage issue. I ran it to the parts store, then sat in the drive-through of a busy McDonalds (grilled chicken salad). I'd been driving normally and with it running idling the whole time rock solid, about a 30 minute trip in total. On a hunch as I left with my McFood, I revved the poo poo out of the motor. It started overheating within the two blocks it took to get back to work. Popped the hood and the lower was rock solid again. Something is in there and it's clogging something, and I think it's getting dislodged from where-ever it's resting when the pump is pushing the hardest. Here's hoping on the flush. Are you sure its not rock solid due to pressure increases due to overheat? It sounds like you're pump is gone.
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May 11, 2016 19:31
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One of my favorite cars. Flush the poo poo out of it but probably plan on water pump / t-belt soon. I sold my 92 4 door with only 68k miles on it a few years ago (got it broken down at an auction in '07 with only 18k on it). Subscribed.
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May 11, 2016 20:55
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I love that body style.
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May 12, 2016 04:10
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CommieGIR posted:Are you sure its not rock solid due to pressure increases due to overheat? It sounds like you're pump is gone. This. I would be scared to even start the engine without knowing for sure that the timing belt has been changed at some point (original coolant  ). The water pump isn't capable of building any real pressure. says whenever you get around to the timing belt/water pump service, you'll find the water pump is pretty much gone. If it's not, then it's either the head gasket or some air bubble that doesn't want to leave its warm, sweet-smelling home.Best part about an H22 swap is the F22 trans bolts right up.  (also I'm so drat jealous you got your hands on this, despite being a money pit) Looks like a 92-93? Any idea who put the EX wheels on it? randomidiot fucked around with this message at 04:29 on May 12, 2016 |
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May 12, 2016 04:26
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I'm not scared about popping the motor. Just forces my hand on the h22. The past two days it's been fine. Been driving it nice, never over 4K rpm, leisurely accelerations, etc. I found I can reliably get it to overheat by redlining the motor. I just did a quick 1st and 2nd gear runout on the way back to work from lunch, from one stoplight to the next, and what has been a steady needle quickly starting climbing the second I stopped. Fans are running. Flush is happening tomorrow morning, maybe tonight. Might do timing belt job this weekend. When I do the H22 I'm dumping the transmission. I want an LSD and the more aggressive gearing from the Prelude. No to ATTS though, too much headache.
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May 13, 2016 20:26
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It is a 1993 LX, not sure where the EX wheels came from but they sure are in nice shape, I really love them.
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May 13, 2016 20:30
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Seems I really pissed it off at lunch today. Gave me fits every time I stopped on the way home today. It was controllable with running the heat and revving the motor to 2k. Pulled her in hot and ripped the plugs, did a quick compression test. Got 150, 150, 165, 165. Plugs look nice. Acts like headgasket, no reading to support it. Starting flush now. 
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May 14, 2016 00:43
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D- and B-series Hondas have weird head gasket failure modes. I guess the F is the same way. They don't do the milkshake or consistent overheating, they just have little tiny holes in the gasket that sometimes close up and other times open up and nuke the engine. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 14, 2016 |
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May 14, 2016 00:58
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This thread has made my day. That car loving owns.
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May 14, 2016 02:01
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Seat Safety Switch posted:D- and B-series Hondas have weird head gasket failure modes. I guess the F is the same way. That's interesting in the most depressing manner possible, and this would seem to corroborate headgasket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmpD3VvFNw But check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir6mW8D7BGA Anyway, I'm out of antifreeze, so I'm off to get some and then I'll fill her up and test drive. trouser chili fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 14, 2016 |
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May 14, 2016 02:02
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trouser chili posted:But check this out. A lot of the Subaru headgasket problems start because some dipshit changes the coolant after a leak and doesn't bother burping out the shitload of bubbles the strange hose routing and coolant flow cause, which then immediately overheat the engine and nuke it while the dipshit is driving. Successive coolant changes don't solve the problem either and then they really gently caress the thing up driving it like that for several months, it's almost like you need to pay loving attention when you maintain a car. And by "some dipshit" I mean the PO of my car. A Honda is pretty traditional (as traditional as Hondas get) so maybe it's not that, but it also wouldn't surprise me if the PO stuffed it full of bubbles. That's a lot of bubbles though. Replace that rad cap too. Are there any cheap pressure testers you can get/rent? Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 14, 2016 |
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May 14, 2016 03:42
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Has the water pump been replaced yet? If the fan blades are worn to nubs it will cause some strange issues. Or if the bearing is on its way out that could also cause this and honestly the f series is the easiest car for the t belt/water pump.
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May 14, 2016 04:08
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The only component left in the cooling system I haven't replaced is all the little fiddly hoses to the intake, and the water pump itself. This is the second block test I've done and the second compression test I've done. Both times now they gave no indication of headgasket failure, but the weird propensity to overheat keeps coming back. Anyway I just refilled it with 50/50 and took a little spirited drive, then sat it idling for a bit. The fans cycled several times and the needle stayed rock solid like a good Honda should. I'm not convinced though, this car has been a brat. I may start the timing belt job tomorrow, I really should because the following weekend my sister is getting married, meaning I'll have to push the car two weeks if it starts loving up again. At the same time, I'm teaching a friend how to do brakes on his CD5 chassis Accord. All the disadvantages of inboard brakes with none of the advantages. I'm also hanging a fender on my CE1 Accord. Cause the neighbor backed in to it a while back and I finally found a good matching used fender for it. 
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May 14, 2016 04:43
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An old friend stopped by last night. I bought this car for $300 nearly four years ago, it had been parked under a pine tree for two years when I got it. Took a whole day to get it clean. Similarly, it had overheating issues, but in this case a block test confirmed headgasket. A bottle of sodium metasilicate got it to seal and I sold it to friend in need at cost. She limped it for a year before the headgasket gave up completely. A pro swapped it out for $650 and gave it a smattering of new belts while at it. She's very pretty, no doubt. I'd really like to have this car back someday, it's in great shape, no rust car came from Seattle.
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May 14, 2016 15:12
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The CB9 has been acting well in regards to the overheating issues since the flush and last block test, but now it's struggling to start once again. Typically it cranks long and then fires on 2 cylinders for a bit. Once it catches on two the others join in within a minute, and then it's fine. Finished the brake job on my buddy's CD5. What a pain in the dick this job is.   Additionally we did the steering rack bellows on one side and one new wheel bearing and one new brake line and caliper. This car has 250,000 miles and still runs/drives better than my cb9. When that was done I did the front sway bar bushings on my wife's 2009 Mazda5. Factory stock is same as Mazda3, but the Mazda5 weighs significantly more, and as a consequence of that, Mazda5 are know to eat the bushings as often as every 25,000 miles. So I got energy suspension poly bushings for it, they're much larger than factory stock and the sway bar needs a bit of modification to make them fit, but I'll never need replace them again.  This is great because they're also a pain in the dick to replace. You can just see the new bushing retainer installed in this pic. 
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May 15, 2016 17:38
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And it's the end of the weekend and the car just overheated again. It hates me.
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May 15, 2016 23:50
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trouser chili posted:And it's the end of the weekend and the car just overheated again. It hates me. Just stop. You've got either a water pump or thermostat going out and if you keep it up you'll have a blown head gasket.
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May 16, 2016 01:49
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Yeah don't push it, I almost ruined my Miata driving around with a severe water pump leak then just decided to let it sit until i had time for it. You've got enough cars, just put it up until you can do the water pump and thermostat.
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May 16, 2016 02:01
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Eh, it's gotta get me through the next two days. It's not overheating as long as I don't push it to do so. The starting issue may prevent it from going anywhere but whatever is happening with that, the more it sits the worse it gets. The patient is not in good health, but the more I run it the better it gets as long as I'm not too mean to it.
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May 16, 2016 03:49
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trouser chili posted:Eh, it's gotta get me through the next two days. It's not overheating as long as I don't push it to do so. The starting issue may prevent it from going anywhere but whatever is happening with that, the more it sits the worse it gets. The patient is not in good health, but the more I run it the better it gets as long as I'm not too mean to it. It's gonna bite you in the rear end.
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May 16, 2016 04:06
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Hey the bottom of the well is starting to fill with water, should I dig more? Car got me to work today OK. At one point while sitting still in traffic waiting my turn to get around a bunch of idiots that ran into each other the needle started climbing, turning on heat and raising RPM to 1,500 was all that was needed to keep it calm. I'll be starting the timing belt job Tuesday evening. Can't wait.
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May 16, 2016 14:54
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trouser chili posted:The starting issue may prevent it from going anywhere but whatever is happening with that, the more it sits the worse it gets. Does this year of Accord have the internal or external coilpack? My brother and I have had our fair share of 90's Hondas and they've all required replacement coils or igniters.
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May 16, 2016 15:24
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OneStopShop posted:Does this year of Accord have the internal or external coilpack? My brother and I have had our fair share of 90's Hondas and they've all required replacement coils or igniters. External, I can't figure out which ones had internal vs external except I picked up a nearly-new distributor at the JY a while back but didn't pay attention and got an internal coil dizzy. I tried installing it after reading some conversion instructions on the internet, but I couldn't get spark with it, so I stole the seals and rotor off it (the only reason I was swapping was due to oil leaks) and slapped the old one back on after cleaning it up inside with some sandpaper.
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May 16, 2016 15:51
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Parked the wagon, I don't think things are looking good for it right now but I'm too busy to do anything with it. With my sister's wedding this weekend and my folks in town I had to move the ITR back to the house and the Odyssey is in permanent borrowed-out mode. That leaves me only the bike and the ITR to get to work, both of which I pretty much refuse to drive in poor weather, also I don't have enough room to store them.   Unfortunately for the ITR, this has resulted in a few scrapes and bruises. Caught the wall on the right side of the garage once.  Just caught a ladder two days ago.  At least that one buffed out with some cleaner wax. 
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May 20, 2016 14:51
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That sounds like a stuck thermostat or a bad water pump to me. If it was a longitudinal engine I'd suspect fan clutch, but, well, it aint. I would just do both the water pump and thermostat at the same time. No sense draining the system twice over a 5 dollar part. I almost got one of these wagons for free one day when I stopped for a stranded motorist who turned out to have been driving a blown up Accord wagon. He also turned out to be an RC airplane fanatic and some sort of proselytizing Christian minister. It sure was an interesting drive and he ended up giving me a bunch of random tools he didn't need anymore and tried to give me the car too. I sometimes regret not taking it, it had overheated (sounding familiar?) and needed some basic cooling system repairs to be a fine reliable driver. And I think he just left it on the side of the road to get impounded and auctioned 
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May 20, 2016 21:13
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So wait have you or not been in the timing belt? When you had the thermostat out, did you or did you not stick a garden hose in there and flush the gently caress out of her? Smell the exhaust? Do a leak down test and see if your coolant bubbles.
Preoptopus fucked around with this message at 09:32 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 09:28
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Preoptopus posted:So wait have you or not been in the timing belt? When you had the thermostat out, did you or did you not stick a garden hose in there and flush the gently caress out of her? Smell the exhaust? Do a leak down test and see if your coolant bubbles. He showed coolant bubbling above but the sniffer stayed blue. I'm guessing he will pull off the water pump and find a few little rusted nubs instead of impellers.
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May 21, 2016 13:58
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TheFonz posted:He showed coolant bubbling above but the sniffer stayed blue. I'm guessing he will pull off the water pump and find a few little rusted nubs instead of impellers. That would be nice, or an impeller that can be convinced to spin independent of the shaft. In wedding right now, bride is late. Should start tomorrow if not too hungover.
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May 21, 2016 21:28
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 13:39 |
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Did fender today. Door needed pulling before the new one could go on.
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May 24, 2016 02:15
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