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Necc0 posted:ok i'm seeing this opinion pop up everywhere and it's real frustrating: why the gently caress would oracle sue people for using their own language that they're trying to get everyone to use?? because lol, oracle
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May 26, 2016 23:57
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Necc0 posted:ok i'm seeing this opinion pop up everywhere and it's real frustrating: why the gently caress would oracle sue people for using their own language that they're trying to get everyone to use?? because oracle couldn't care less if anybody actually uses the language they just want to get paid by anybody does use it
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May 26, 2016 23:59
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Shaggar posted:the verdict its seriously hosed up shagger was right
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May 27, 2016 00:04
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Stymie posted:somewhere in a mock japanese village a man is crushing a delicate tea cup in his bare hand Quotin'
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May 27, 2016 00:23
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APIs want to be free
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May 27, 2016 00:32
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Ludwig van Halen posted:fair use, a way for individuals to use copyrighted material for educational and non commercial use, now allows mega corporations to steal from each other with impunity and make billions doing it I guess the Google argument went through when they tried to convince the jury that their use of Java APIs were transformative because they were used as a small portion(0.5%?) of a greater whole in a market oracle/sun never managed to get through.
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May 27, 2016 00:42
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To be fair Oracle wasn't doing anything with it and Google clearly transformed the code into something people actually wanted to use. Sucks for Oracle because they are incapable of doing anything successful so when anyone steals from them and the stolen thing becomes successful you can automatically argue you transformed it since Oracle can't reasonably be assumed to have made a successful thing by themselves.
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May 27, 2016 00:46
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Shaggar posted:Sun/Oracle has already successfully sued people in the past for improper or unlicensed implementations of the Java API. Most notably: Microsoft. sun didn't win the lawsuit against microsoft. they settled out of court for a pittance after microsoft no longer had a reason to care as they'd already successfully killed java on windows
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May 27, 2016 00:51
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incoherent posted:The logical extension of "corporations are people". it's difficult to rewrite legal definitions, let alone ones so pivotal only legal persons can hold assets and liabilities, sue and be sued, enter into contracts, etc. they can be natural or fictive persons, but "person" is nonetheless the word lawyers choose a thousand years ago if you restrict legal personhood to natural persons only, you'd invalidate the united states could be fun party trick, though
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May 27, 2016 01:11
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Triglav posted:if you restrict legal personhood to natural persons only, you'd invalidate the united states and future AI's. just think of how less violent skynets will be when we give them legal rights.
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May 27, 2016 02:07
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May 27, 2016 02:25
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anthonypants posted:eat poo poo oracle
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May 27, 2016 02:26
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MononcQc posted:I guess the Google argument went through when they tried to convince the jury that their use of Java APIs were transformative because they were used as a small portion(0.5%?) of a greater whole in a market oracle/sun never managed to get through. that's not really true tho. android was based on blackberry which was entirely java and regardless, the major reason to go with java was the ubiquity of the language on all platforms and the developer base behind it. java as a language was wildly successful primarily because of the java standard library.
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May 27, 2016 03:45
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Shaggar posted:that's not really true tho. android was based on blackberry which was entirely java and regardless, the major reason to go with java was the ubiquity of the language on all platforms and the developer base behind it. java as a language was wildly successful primarily because of the java standard library. Google also made specifically the argument that various Javas (SE, ME, etc.) weren't all compatible together and the ecosystem was fragmented on non-personal computer devices v  v
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May 27, 2016 03:47
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even if that were true, it wouldn't matter since any differences in edition would be purposeful on sun/oracles side so idk how that helps goog. other than the jury being pretty dumb
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May 27, 2016 03:53
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Oracle got SavaJed
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May 27, 2016 04:31
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Captain Foo posted:Oracle got SavaJed
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May 27, 2016 06:18
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so what does this mean for the boats?
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May 27, 2016 07:24
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Isn't this trouble for FLOSS? Those kind of zealots seem to side with goog on this but shouldn't they be worried about non-'libre' implementations of their APIs. Assuming there is anything worth stealing that is...
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May 27, 2016 08:23
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zokie posted:Isn't this trouble for FLOSS? Those kind of zealots seem to side with goog on this but shouldn't they be worried about non-'libre' implementations of their APIs. Assuming there is anything worth stealing that is... butt floss
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May 27, 2016 11:26
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Shaggar posted:even if that were true, it wouldn't matter since any differences in edition would be purposeful on sun/oracles side so idk how that helps goog. other than the jury being pretty dumb lol cry some more lil bitch, my corporation beat up your corporation
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May 27, 2016 11:44
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I'm always surprised at huge spikes followed by regression to more or less equivalent value. is that dumb day traders, dumb reactionary algos, or what?
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May 27, 2016 12:04
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wait are people on the "this is bad" tangent because of the appelate/supreme doing the stupidest possible reversal of copyright putting this case's merits into a weird spot to be drawing hard lines or have y'all ginned up some new magical way of thinking "function signatures should have the full weight oftriple sulk posted:Designing non-trivial APIs is extremely difficult
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May 27, 2016 12:11
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the java.lang api is trivial as gently caress
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May 27, 2016 13:55
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enjoying all the tasty tears itt! keep it up mates!
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May 27, 2016 14:11
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if this invalidates the gpl that would make it worth it
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May 27, 2016 14:36
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spoiler alert. the good guys won.
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May 27, 2016 16:13
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the weird thing is the gpl says it applies to all copyrightable material and the courts decided APIs are subject to copyright so googles copy of the Java APIs directly violates the gpl
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May 27, 2016 16:18
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the fsf hems and haws that the gpl isn't supposed to apply to APIs but they never wrote that into the license text
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May 27, 2016 16:19
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the one thing the trial proved is that nobody understands poo poo to the copyright issue and all developers who improve themselves as copyright lawyers can only serve the purpose of seeing their online rants entered into evidence.
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May 27, 2016 16:23
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Ludwig van Halen posted:the weird thing is the gpl says it applies to all copyrightable material and the courts decided APIs are subject to copyright so googles copy of the Java APIs directly violates the gpl so what happens if google gpls the api and leaves everything else apache
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May 27, 2016 17:05
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triple sulk posted:Designing non-trivial APIs is extremely difficult "hmm should I put add() in math.java or a.java?!" *strains mental energies to the breaking point* "math.java definitely" *raucous applause, roses thrown*
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May 27, 2016 17:31
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hobbesmaster posted:so what happens if google gpls the api and leaves everything else apache that's fine I guess but doesn't excuse however many years of infringement
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May 27, 2016 17:38
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well, what damages would there be for incorrectly using the apache license instead of the gpl?
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May 27, 2016 17:45
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Munkeymon posted:"hmm should I put add() in math.java or a.java?!"
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May 27, 2016 17:46
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hobbesmaster posted:well, what damages would there be for incorrectly using the apache license instead of the gpl? $9 billion dollars which Oracle has asked for e: the Java api is dual licensed for people who don't want to abide by the GPL, which means you pay oracle Baxate fucked around with this message at 17:57 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 17:54
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Snapchat A Titty posted:the java.lang api is trivial as gently caress eagerly awaiting to see your take on java.lang.ClassLoader Shaggar posted:if this invalidates the gpl that would make it worth it I thjnk this might already have happened?! while everyone was distracted by oracle-vs-google Microsoft made a deal with canonical and now you have the Linux kernel syscall api (or ABI) implemented on windows without needing to run the Linux kernel so unmodified binaries can run against this api and your proprietary modifications can be compiled against a C API extracted from microsoft's implementation of the syscalls. so your code isn't derived from GPL code or if it is it's fair use anyway according to this lawsuit
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May 28, 2016 12:35
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Max Facetime posted:eagerly awaiting to see your take on java.lang.ClassLoader whats non-trivial about the classloader API? its p much all define/find/load/get/set
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May 28, 2016 16:37
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dunno I've always thought of dynamically loading and linking libraries to be like black magic but maybe it just needs a trivial API to trivialize it
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May 29, 2016 09:53
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Max Facetime posted:dunno the implementation might be voodoo for all i know, but the API is straightforward
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May 29, 2016 15:12
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