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Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Omi no Kami posted:

Dumb NGU question: the completion bonus for the magitech set includes 3 Magic Bars, and "1 Magic Bar Bars". Is that a typo, or are bars and bar bars mechanically distinct things?

Don't feel stupid. I asked pretty much the same exact question:

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

In NGU idle, I got +1 energy bar bar from the daily spin, and I'm not sure whether it registered or not. I usually keep my stats at round numbers when it's convenient, and it's still at 200 base bars.

Does it factor into the calculations in a way I'm not expecting it to?

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Phssthpok
Nov 7, 2004

fingers like strings of walnuts

The Huge Manatee posted:

I think factory idle type games could be improved by forcing you to buy off brand parts such that the inputs and outputs vary in direction and quantity, like the old pipe placement puzzle games.

No googleable solutions, you've just gotta use your head and make the most of what you get dealt.

Big Pharma does a good job of this. The machines are standard, but the raw materials are randomized each game (for example, "cures insomnia" and "causes nightmares" might start out on the same ingredient). So you have to intelligently apply the same machines to different inputs in each region. Big Pharma uses it for "replayability" so that you can get a different experience from each 30-minute game. But the same idea could apply to a long-format game by having you periodically unlock new regions. Or is that too lootboxy?

Structure has an interesting take on adjacency puzzles. Around level 30 you unlock the ability to create your own world out of nodes with various rules about how close they can be to other nodes. Since it's not a strict grid, the solutions are less googleable. This could be really fun for setting up factory supply chains.

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee


Iím having nightmares of a Spacechem idle now

Merijn
Nov 7, 2005

not zef


Bleak Gremlin

If we're still throwing out ideas for somethingg's new game, I really liked the graphics in the Cookie Clicker reboot (a long time ago) and there hasn't really been any idle game that matched that much pretty. The Realm Grinder reboot kinda did, but it wasn't as smooth.

Apart from that, ITRTG and NGU are too complex/mathy for me.

Merijn
Nov 7, 2005

not zef


Bleak Gremlin

gently caress ME I just moved back to the first town in Artist Idle when I was at 24k fame. Everything lost. Screw this game, I quit.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Merijn posted:

gently caress ME I just moved back to the first town in Artist Idle when I was at 24k fame. Everything lost. Screw this game, I quit.

Note to idle game developers: Try to avoid trap options. I think one of the biggest things to manage is making sure that players don't feel regret over choices. If someone is looking at invoking some mechanic, you don't want them realizing after the fact that they really screwed up. Like if you have a prestige option that gives a variable number of points based on progress, don't make the cheapest option 100 points and let someone prestige at 1 point. Make the cheapest option 1 point and make it good enough on its own to justify a prestige.

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.



Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Note to idle game developers: Try to avoid trap options. I think one of the biggest things to manage is making sure that players don't feel regret over choices. If someone is looking at invoking some mechanic, you don't want them realizing after the fact that they really screwed up. Like if you have a prestige option that gives a variable number of points based on progress, don't make the cheapest option 100 points and let someone prestige at 1 point. Make the cheapest option 1 point and make it good enough on its own to justify a prestige.

gently caress this, make every prestige a Choose Your Own Adventure full of traps that can cause a hard reset. I want hardcore ironman idle gaming.

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017


Goon Danton posted:

gently caress this, make every prestige a Choose Your Own Adventure full of traps that can cause a hard reset. I want hardcore ironman idle gaming.

X-Com Idle

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Goon Danton posted:

gently caress this, make every prestige a Choose Your Own Adventure full of traps that can cause a hard reset. I want hardcore ironman idle gaming.

Server-side saves and heavily RNG based prestige mechanics.

pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.

Goon Danton posted:

gently caress this, make every prestige a Choose Your Own Adventure full of traps that can cause a hard reset. I want hardcore ironman idle gaming.

Something like this would need to be winnable in roughly a month or two (or less) if you follow a guide. Anything with real staying power you don't want gently caress ups. If you are going to spend a year plus you don't want to go backwards.

Something with wrong turns and staying power would end up being that you could mess a prestige up so bad you have to abandon it. You just don't want a player losing all their progress if they go on vacation. Worse you also end up souring any returning players because they lost progress. Stop playing because you cleared the content? Cool new patch? Well you get to start all over again because gently caress you.

I feel that MMO-4X game with quarterly resets is going to be similar to a long term idle game with wrong turns if that ever comes out.

Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
Which do you want to hear first...?


Fun Shoe

Merijn posted:

gently caress ME I just moved back to the first town in Artist Idle when I was at 24k fame. Everything lost. Screw this game, I quit.

I JUST DID THE SAME THING. I also quit.

Safeword
Jun 1, 2018



Anyone know of a decent mobile compatible idle game that doesn't rely on a prestige element for progression?

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



pixaal posted:

Something like this would need to be winnable in roughly a month or two (or less) if you follow a guide. Anything with real staying power you don't want gently caress ups. If you are going to spend a year plus you don't want to go backwards.

That old xkcd idle game sounds kinda like what we're discussing; each stage is built around paradigm shifts that often invalidate prior setups, but it's made to be super-easy to reset so a bad fuckup never (as far as I recall) kills your game, just your current run.

Eldercain
Jun 14, 2007

I'm pretty creeped out


Omi no Kami posted:

That old xkcd idle game sounds kinda like what we're discussing; each stage is built around paradigm shifts that often invalidate prior setups, but it's made to be super-easy to reset so a bad fuckup never (as far as I recall) kills your game, just your current run.

You could in theory gently caress up a reset in that game, but honestly the part of the game where you do resets is very short and technically optical now

Nibble
Dec 28, 2003

if we don't, remember me


I'm in the late Vacuum/early Dragon stage and I never touched the reset mechanic. Some stuff was a definite slog, like getting to Aleph One, but past this point I don't think the reset prizes really matter.

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

I've tried flinging myself at that game multiple times and hooo boy is it resistant to understanding. I get that's part of the charm and all...but drat son.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Safeword posted:

Anyone know of a decent mobile compatible idle game that doesn't rely on a prestige element for progression?

Endless Battle has no real prestige elements.

Eldercain
Jun 14, 2007

I'm pretty creeped out


Nibble posted:

I'm in the late Vacuum/early Dragon stage and I never touched the reset mechanic. Some stuff was a definite slog, like getting to Aleph One, but past this point I don't think the reset prizes really matter.

I'm stuck in the post glass pre everything else stage and I just don't tab over enough for logicats enough to progress despite being on NP like 3500 lol. Haven't hosed with dragons though.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



I feel like I'm stagnating a bit in NGU: I have around 2k power/toughness, so I can beat GRB without advanced training but I'm nowhere near being able to beat the tree or the clockwork place, and advanced exoskeleton is so expensive that it's easier to just pour all my augment time into scissors. With GRB's boost to time machine I can grind enough money to danger scissor myself up to around boss 76-80, but it feels like there's no point advancing bosses if I'm unable to beat my current highest titan + adventure area. Do I need to just start grinding one-hour rebirths to farm GRB's gear, and use those bonuses to survive the clockwork area?

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee


Omi no Kami posted:

I feel like I'm stagnating a bit in NGU: I have around 2k power/toughness, so I can beat GRB without advanced training but I'm nowhere near being able to beat the tree or the clockwork place, and advanced exoskeleton is so expensive that it's easier to just pour all my augment time into scissors. With GRB's boost to time machine I can grind enough money to danger scissor myself up to around boss 76-80, but it feels like there's no point advancing bosses if I'm unable to beat my current highest titan + adventure area. Do I need to just start grinding one-hour rebirths to farm GRB's gear, and use those bonuses to survive the clockwork area?

No. Autokill for Gordon is 3000/2500 and better than grinding one hour rebirths for gear, though gear + exp is another matter. Manual for the next area, clockwork is 3250, 2250 recommended. Aim for that, with Gordon just being a bonus. IIRC, the sausage that Gordon drops boosts your power and toughness with the quickest turn around compared to the armor. That can be a short term bump till you can phase in something high enough level to surpass Magitech. If you canít stand to do another long session of advanced training and waiting on drops, look at the first time completion bonuses of the challenges available or almost unlocked. A 10% adventure stat boost is one of the easier benefits IIRC.

Either way, when you go overnight, setup the game to run some NGU+ from that Number(42?) drop. Since everything is multiplicative itís worthwhile even if it is too slow to up during a normal run.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



LordSloth posted:

No. Autokill for Gordon is 3000/2500 and better than grinding one hour rebirths for gear, though gear + exp is another matter. Manual for the next area, clockwork is 3250, 2250 recommended. Aim for that, with Gordon just being a bonus. IIRC, the sausage that Gordon drops boosts your power and toughness with the quickest turn around compared to the armor. That can be a short term bump till you can phase in something high enough level to surpass Magitech. If you canít stand to do another long session of advanced training and waiting on drops, look at the first time completion bonuses of the challenges available or almost unlocked. A 10% adventure stat boost is one of the easier benefits IIRC.

Either way, when you go overnight, setup the game to run some NGU+ from that Number(42?) drop. Since everything is multiplicative itís worthwhile even if it is too slow to up during a normal run.

Hmmkay, thanks... I haven't tried overnighting adv. training for a while or *ever* touched NGU/wandoos, so that should hopefully help a lot. ^^

Merijn
Nov 7, 2005

not zef


Bleak Gremlin

Geocities Homepage King posted:

I JUST DID THE SAME THING. I also quit.

I'm kinda sad about it though. I really wanted to see the prestige thing with muses and musical notes.

But seeing this is the 4th time I lost all my progress.... gently caress it.

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Falcon2001 posted:

I've tried flinging myself at that game multiple times and hooo boy is it resistant to understanding. I get that's part of the charm and all...but drat son.

Yeah, I've never gotten particularly far or really found myself caring much about Sandcastle Builder because it's such an impenetrable mess. I tried a few times but ultimately just wrote it off as Not For Me.

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Eldercain
Jun 14, 2007

I'm pretty creeped out


Merijn posted:

I'm kinda sad about it though. I really wanted to see the prestige thing with muses and musical notes.

But seeing this is the 4th time I lost all my progress.... gently caress it.

TBH I kind of wish that would happen to me it have been interesting really at all but I'm an idiot

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