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Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Putting all those screenshots together really reminded me of how pretty Civ 5's UI is

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JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007



Node posted:

1UPT is a great idea on paper. However, it's much easier to make an AI that understands how to use a doomstack. With a complicated game like Civ, 1upt is a recipe for disaster. I hope the AI is improved, but AI in general just has not been a priority in games lately, so my hopes aren't up.

I'd say 1UPT is superb for multi-player though (when turns are sequential). It really adds to the strategy. That said I never had any experience with MP doomstacks - but I enjoyed using the terrain in 1UPT MP.

The AI will always be cripplingly bad at combat, and will therefore need a crutch of some kind, but I had hoped they'd address it by buffing individual units rather than just giving them more units. Carpets of doom were relatively easily kept at bay with a line of fortified troops (because the carpet could only be fed in to battle with a two-unit-deep front-line), but it was just so tedious. If the AI had fewer, more powerful units, the player would have to spend a lot more thought on strategic placements, focus-firing, etc.

I have a worrying feeling that the new, combined arms system may actually make it more complex in a way that the AI ends up struggling even more than it already does.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007



By the way I haven't seen this mentioned yet despite how obvious it is from the screenshots - looks like we get sea cliffs now? That could make embarkation a much more interesting affair.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER


Taco Defender

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

I'd say 1UPT is superb for multi-player though (when turns are sequential). It really adds to the strategy. That said I never had any experience with MP doomstacks - but I enjoyed using the terrain in 1UPT MP.

I didn't consider that. Yeah, 1UPT would be amazing for multiplayer, although I don't play Civ games MP myself. Turn based, takes too much time.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



The Lord Bude posted:

I don't mind the stacking of support units with military units, but I hate the idea of the corps. It's going to be just like the stupid doom stacks of old civ games except you need a separate one for each unit type - it completely undermines the tactical aspect of the game when you're only moving two or three units around. The single unit system in civ5 revolutionised the game and made conquest fun for the first time in the series.

FYI doom stacks were sub-optimal in civ4's warfare against human players who understand how to use siege units. Usually you're looking to spread out and choke off your opponent.

The AI being able to throw a big stack your way was a big plus in making it marginally threatening.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I would be astounded if a significant percentage of the playerbase ever played civ multiplayer though. Multiplayer civ is horrible - it always becomes a rush to see who can fart out units as quickly as possible and win by conquest as quickly as possible - usually by the end of the classical era. It completely warps the game.

And as for single player, the answer is to make the AI better. Marching a couple of doom stacks around the map is an incredibly boring experience.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011



Doomstacks are strictly worse in every aspect but the AIs ability to understand them IMO.

Of course, since the singleplayer experience is so important to civ games that's a pretty massive exception.

I can't fault them too hard for trying though. If the AI was better at handling it, things like carpets wouldn't be an issue. Of course, the tactical element of unit deployment is something that the AI is always going to struggle to understand, because the stuff is complicated and requires a certain amount of intuition.

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!


Superior thread title, superior thread. I'm probably gonna pre-order the deluxe edition even though all common sense dictates I shouldn't!

Also I hope they've learned their lesson with the DLC stuff, if it's just like four civs and some scenarios that would suck. But since XCOM 2's season pass thing seems to deliver a decent enough value, I'm hoping Firaxis has finally learned a way to package DLC in a way that pleases 2K without ripping off their customers.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011



I'm so far gone I'm probably going to get whatever DLC is available anyway. Bonus civs? Sign me up.

Ein Sexmonster
Nov 1, 2011

I'm a skin man. I wish I wasn't.

Disgusting Coward posted:

Game will be a buggy, content-free mess on release.

3 years later it might maybe be worth buying the complete edition in a Steam sale.
I would agree historically, but on the content side it really looks like they're taking what worked in Civ 5 and expanding it, and reworking what didn't. They aren't cutting any systems.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Johnny Pussy?


What if there was a happy medium between stacks and 1UPT?

Like you could have 3-4 units per tile or artillery, infantry and armor/mounted units could all occupy the same space granted there's no more than one of each type? I could live with something like that.

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

ACTUALLY, DID YOU KNOW IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO LOSE WEIGHT AND BEING GIGANTIC DOESN'T CAUSE ANY HEALTH PROBLEMS? IT'S EITHER THAT OR I'M AN IDIOT!


Handsome Ralph posted:

What if there was a happy medium between stacks and 1UPT?

Like you could have 3-4 units per tile or artillery, infantry and armor/mounted units could all occupy the same space granted there's no more than one of each type? I could live with something like that.

That's kinda the idea behind the corps and army mechanic, from what they've said thus far. Auxiliary equipment (artillery, etc.) would be available as support units, which can merge with military units for defensive or offensive purposes. e.g., a cannon would stack with a musketman.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007



I wonder if units will auto-upgrade or if you'll be able to have ancient ones stick around. Tanks supported by catapults

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



I imagine attaching artillery to normal units is a way to get rid of ranged units which were a serious problem for the AI. That bein' said, while I think civ4's tactical combat isn't the most interesting, I don't think civ needs interesting tactical combat. I'd probably rather see war more abstract, not less, but I think going for even more abstract warfare would have to be in a different game series. It's too bad every loving 4x decides to do sci-fi/fantasy.

In Through the Ages, while you can use obsolete units to fill out your tactics combinations, your tactic bonus is hugely less when you're mixing catapaults and tanks.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 14, 2016

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


I am glad cities are no longer the single tile fortress chokepoint that explodes into barbarian spawning grounds.


Handsome Ralph posted:

What if there was a happy medium between stacks and 1UPT?

Like you could have 3-4 units per tile or artillery, infantry and armor/mounted units could all occupy the same space granted there's no more than one of each type? I could live with something like that.
There was mention that around the Napoleonic Wars era, you can stack two like units (corps) with heavily diminished returns and three units (army) a hundred years later.

Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 17:20 on May 14, 2016

Slowpoke!
Feb 12, 2008

ANIME IS FOR ADULTS


The Lord Bude posted:

I would be astounded if a significant percentage of the playerbase ever played civ multiplayer though. Multiplayer civ is horrible - it always becomes a rush to see who can fart out units as quickly as possible and win by conquest as quickly as possible - usually by the end of the classical era. It completely warps the game.

And as for single player, the answer is to make the AI better. Marching a couple of doom stacks around the map is an incredibly boring experience.

Civ 4 came out over 10 years ago. I would hope that if doomstacks are back, the AI will know how to deal with them now. Because yeah, against a human, doomstacks just become target practice for siege weapons that hit like 6 units at once without taking any damage themselves. And since trebs were so good at taking cities, you always had plenty of them sitting around for wiping out enemy stacks. Imagine rolling up to a city and the AI doing that to you.

xgalaxy
Jan 27, 2004
i write code

Handsome Ralph posted:

What if there was a happy medium between stacks and 1UPT?

Like you could have 3-4 units per tile or artillery, infantry and armor/mounted units could all occupy the same space granted there's no more than one of each type? I could live with something like that.

Guess what. That is what Civ6 is doing.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

I just hope that archery units don't have any range. That was the dumbest poo poo for me.

Chard
Aug 24, 2010






Hair Elf

Looks like a good game to buy bundled with the core DLC in like 3-4 years

Harmonia
Jul 1, 2014


Ok there's this german video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VvGkRTieQ#t=621s

No way I'm gonna listen to that, but I've gathered from some forums that:

Civ VI will have less technologies, around 50, but it will be "compensated by some system they can't talk about yet."
Roads will form by caravans travelling trade routes
Engineer may build roads for your soldiers

We just need more info now, anyway I'm glad they let Ed Beach loose on this one.

FighterKnuckles
Apr 17, 2010

The truth is in sight!

I have to admit I'm really curious about what the possible new victory condition could be. The only one I can really think of that would make sense would be to have a Religion Victory, but with the way Civ5's systems worked it'd be way too similar to BNW's Culture Victory. I know they said they're revamping most of 5's systems, just not outright removing anything, so I wonder if there's both a Culture Victory and a Religion Victory how they could be different enough to justify it. I can't really think of any other ideas for a new way to win.

Lawrence Gilchrist
Mar 31, 2010



i played some civ clones in the 90s and all the total war shoguns and alpha centauri am i gonna be ok

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire


Lawrence Gilchrist posted:

i played some civ clones in the 90s and all the total war shoguns and alpha centauri am i gonna be ok

This games a bit more obscure but I think you'll figure it out.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

it woulda been cool if we got an actual sequel to alpha centauri.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


The Lord Bude posted:

I would be astounded if a significant percentage of the playerbase ever played civ multiplayer though. Multiplayer civ is horrible - it always becomes a rush to see who can fart out units as quickly as possible and win by conquest as quickly as possible - usually by the end of the classical era. It completely warps the game.

And as for single player, the answer is to make the AI better. Marching a couple of doom stacks around the map is an incredibly boring experience.

As opposed to single player doing the same...?

Samu
Jan 11, 2010

The only thing I hate more than hippie neo-liberal fascists and anarchists are the hypocrite fat cat suits they grow up to become.

I just got Civ 5 for 13 bucks on Steam with all the DLC. Haven't played this game since Gods and Kings.

Did they ever add a Canadian Civ?

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Harmonia posted:

Ok there's this german video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VvGkRTieQ#t=621s

No way I'm gonna listen to that, but I've gathered from some forums that:

Civ VI will have less technologies, around 50, but it will be "compensated by some system they can't talk about yet."
Roads will form by caravans travelling trade routes
Engineer may build roads for your soldiers

We just need more info now, anyway I'm glad they let Ed Beach loose on this one.
The tech rate will be heavily influenced by availability of appropriate resources. Naval techs will take a long time if you are landlocked.

I hope populations will be mobile. No reason to suck it down while an artificial cooldown prevents a taken city from expanding.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007



I stopped checking in with Civ:BE a long time ago but right from the start I remember modders promising a concerted effort to do an alpha centauri total overhaul mod. Did anything come of that?

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Harmonia posted:

Ok there's this german video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VvGkRTieQ#t=621s

No way I'm gonna listen to that, but I've gathered from some forums that:

Civ VI will have less technologies, around 50, but it will be "compensated by some system they can't talk about yet."
Roads will form by caravans travelling trade routes
Engineer may build roads for your soldiers

We just need more info now, anyway I'm glad they let Ed Beach loose on this one.

Scalding Coffee posted:

The tech rate will be heavily influenced by availability of appropriate resources. Naval techs will take a long time if you are landlocked.

I hope populations will be mobile. No reason to suck it down while an artificial cooldown prevents a taken city from expanding.

Yeah, that ties in with one of their stated main goals. They want to move away from an game dynamic where there's basically one mathematically optimised ideal build/action order that will carry you to victory. They want to make sure there's much more variety between one round and the next, with your circumstances having a greater effect on your overall playstyle and development.

Another big thing from that interview was that they're planning to allow two units to stack per tile each. So armies will still need to maneuver around, but it's not quite as cramped anymore.

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Wow....that feels good





Fallen Rib

Like to thank the new thread title for getting that song stuck in my head and watching the music video over and over again (Such a catchy song).

Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



Samu posted:

Did they ever add a Canadian Civ?

lmao

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

I wonder if units will auto-upgrade or if you'll be able to have ancient ones stick around. Tanks supported by catapults

It's not exactly the most farfetched thing, though IRL the closest thing would be Artillery supported by Mounted Cavalry

Samu posted:

I just got Civ 5 for 13 bucks on Steam with all the DLC. Haven't played this game since Gods and Kings.

Did they ever add a Canadian Civ?

There's a Mod for that.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Perestroika posted:

Yeah, that ties in with one of their stated main goals. They want to move away from an game dynamic where there's basically one mathematically optimised ideal build/action order that will carry you to victory. They want to make sure there's much more variety between one round and the next, with your circumstances having a greater effect on your overall playstyle and development.

Another big thing from that interview was that they're planning to allow two units to stack per tile each. So armies will still need to maneuver around, but it's not quite as cramped anymore.
They did mention civilian units can merge with combat units for protective exploration. Support units should give new capabilities to the attached unit. That sounds like it won't interfere with having an actual corps of two like units halfway in the game.
Civilization is going to be caught up with Total War agent/general bonuses.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Groovelord Neato posted:

it woulda been cool if we got an actual sequel to alpha centauri.

Hey look its the game that started the trend of papering over trash mechanics with writing.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Ultra Carp

Panzeh posted:

Hey look its the game that started the trend of papering over trash mechanics with writing.

Whoa, let's not say anything we can't unsay here.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


Handsome Ralph posted:

What if there was a happy medium between stacks and 1UPT?

Like you could have 3-4 units per tile or artillery, infantry and armor/mounted units could all occupy the same space granted there's no more than one of each type? I could live with something like that.

You could just have army vs army combat, like every other loving 4X game ever.

Billy Jo Robidoux
Nov 15, 2000


How about every military unit is represented by a customizable percentage of ranged/artillery, Melee/grunts, logistics/support and the personnel strength of a unit has a nearly limitless upper end that increases the build time. Each civ is expected to have 4 to 6 later 8 to 12 "armies" active at a time.

Keep combat simple for both the AIs sake and as an abstraction for the player to balance against, infrastructure, culture, wealth, science etc.

Krazyface
Jul 15, 2011

A: to get those sweet first-place bonus points



Hair Elf

Harmonia posted:

Roads will form by caravans travelling trade routes
Engineer may build roads for your soldiers

This is going to be amazing for MP games. "Why the gently caress are you trading with me, dude? I've got like 8 composite bows, seriously, gently caress off."

berryjon
May 30, 2011

I have an invasion to go to.

Xelkelvos posted:

There's a Mod for that.

Civilization V: There's a Mod for that.
Civilization VI: The first Mod will be to replace the menu music with Bata Yetu

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Negostrike
Aug 15, 2015




How about Firaxis go back all the way to Civ 1 for the menu music, whatcha say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYJC2fkLshw

(Yeah it's CivNet but it's an arranged version of Civ 1 opening)

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