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Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

VulgarandStupid posted:

Have you looked at the Raijintek Metis Plus or Cougar QBX?

Hadn't looked at the Metix Plus, but it looks like it is too limited in terms of GPU length for me. I actually have looked at the Cougar QBX, and I'll definitely give it a 2nd look after seeing that it is easy to remove the 'Cougar' badge. I'm thinking I could make that one work. One reason I didn't look too much into it is it doesn't seem to be in stock at any of the major online retailers.

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VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?


Coredump posted:

Wish there were more cases that copied the Corsair One lay out. Pretty much a vertical sandwich case with a big exhaust fan at the top to draw air thru side mounted radiators. If other manufacturers were going to copy the idea make it wide enough to put fans on the side radiators instead of relying solely on the big top fan as Corsair does.

Looks like Sliger gets close: https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/sv590/

I wonder why they went with 360MM rad support. It seems like they could have saved a lot of room going with 240MM, but I guess you'd lose their poorly implemented 2.5" SSD mounting and not be able to use some of the largest video cards.

Splinter posted:

Hadn't looked at the Metix Plus, but it looks like it is too limited in terms of GPU length for me. I actually have looked at the Cougar QBX, and I'll definitely give it a 2nd look after seeing that it is easy to remove the 'Cougar' badge. I'm thinking I could make that one work. One reason I didn't look too much into it is it doesn't seem to be in stock at any of the major online retailers.

The QBX is like $72 from a Newegg vendor which is probably the best you're going to get during these times. Still, not bad for a poor man's M1.

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S

Splinter posted:

I'm looking to venture into the mITX world (whenever B450 mITX boards come back in stock...), and am currently debating between a Fractal Designs Nano S and Lian Li TU150 as my first mITX case.

Anyone have strong opinions on either of these cases, or have other suggestions?

If you're looking at big air coolers, you might end up thinking that the TU150 is the only choice, because it has a few more mm of clearance (165 vs 162). The bigger air cooling options (Noctua NH-D15 or Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro) are up there at 165. If you look around PCPartPicker, though, you'll find plenty of photos of people cramming those huge heatsinks into their Nano S without any problem. Fractal puts a conservative estimate of CPU cooler clearance on their spec sheet, I don't know why.

These two cases each have their perks. The Fractal case let's you use a regular ATX PSU, which is nice. The Lian Li has air intake for the GPU, which is hard to say no to. I like to mod my GPU with full-size 120mm fans, it really cuts down on system noise while gaming.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Coredump posted:

Wish there were more cases that copied the Corsair One lay out. Pretty much a vertical sandwich case with a big exhaust fan at the top to draw air thru side mounted radiators.

Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

VulgarandStupid posted:

The QBX is like $72 from a Newegg vendor which is probably the best you're going to get during these times. Still, not bad for a poor man's M1.

As far as I can tell, even that vendor listing on Newegg is out of stock.

What is this thread's opinion on the NZXT H1? Price doesn't actually seem too bad considering the price of SFX PSUs, CPU coolers and custom PSU cables. The super small footprint is also appealing, and GPU compatibility is decent. However, it does seem like GPU thermals (and therefore potentially GPU fan noise) are an issue (though it looks like someone is already making ventilated front panels for it, which would help as the glass panel traps hot air in the GPU chamber). Availability is another issue, so I don't think it'll even be an option for me for this build, but I'm still curious as it does seem like a good entry point for sub-15L cases.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

The Dan C4 will apparently grow a little bit more in order to take 3-slot GPUs (in the classic layout).

The redesigned version is interesting to me again, a small tower cooler and a thicker GPU should allow quieter operation than the A4's tiny top-down coolers and 2-slot GPUs which are often the cheapest loudest SKUs of recent high-end cards (I wrote about the original design in the past, it was noticeably larger but still had size/cooling restrictions closer to the A4).

It mostly looks like this right now:


The first draft was mostly aimed at watercooling and supported a 240mm radiator at the bottom + a 2-slot GPU in sandwich mode. I hope he can finish it this year.

Reacon
Feb 17, 2013

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.

I figured a bunch of your old fucks would appreciate this like I did:

MiniITX / MicroATX slim form factor Amiga throwback Checkmate A1500+ case. Originally released in 1989, the case has been updated by this dude on Kickstarter and can modularly accept either legacy Amiga or modern ATX hardware. It's got horizontal PCIe mount for GPUs. It has drive bays for days.

It's being sold for £170. I was actually thinking about buying an old IBM-compatible and Dremeling the HECK out of it, but several friends advised me that it would incur abnormal amounts of old-man-nerd-rage. Being about the same amount of money as attempting to complete that project, and with none of the drawbacks (work, fitting, old-man-nerd-rage), I bought one for my next build whenever the gently caress Ryzen Zen 4 comes out.

https://www.checkmate1500plus.com/


Coredump
Dec 1, 2002
All I'm saying is that should be enough to arouse some suspicion is all.


orcane posted:

The Dan C4 will apparently grow a little bit more in order to take 3-slot GPUs (in the classic layout).

The redesigned version is interesting to me again, a small tower cooler and a thicker GPU should allow quieter operation than the A4's tiny top-down coolers and 2-slot GPUs which are often the cheapest loudest SKUs of recent high-end cards (I wrote about the original design in the past, it was noticeably larger but still had size/cooling restrictions closer to the A4).

It mostly looks like this right now:


The first draft was mostly aimed at watercooling and supported a 240mm radiator at the bottom + a 2-slot GPU in sandwich mode. I hope he can finish it this year.

Looks like the Ncase M1 except the power supply is now rotated.

Scientist Al Gore
May 20, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 47 hours!


orcane posted:

The Dan C4 will apparently grow a little bit more in order to take 3-slot GPUs (in the classic layout).

The redesigned version is interesting to me again, a small tower cooler and a thicker GPU should allow quieter operation than the A4's tiny top-down coolers and 2-slot GPUs which are often the cheapest loudest SKUs of recent high-end cards (I wrote about the original design in the past, it was noticeably larger but still had size/cooling restrictions closer to the A4).

It mostly looks like this right now:


The first draft was mostly aimed at watercooling and supported a 240mm radiator at the bottom + a 2-slot GPU in sandwich mode. I hope he can finish it this year.

Sandwich mode was so much cooler, it saves a ton of physical space and I donít why he didnít put the radiator on top.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Sandwich mode still exists:


and you can flip the entire case so the radiator is on top:

orcane fucked around with this message at 17:56 on May 5, 2020

Scientist Al Gore
May 20, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 47 hours!


Eh,

I think the case is now too big now? I'd prefer to have something super tight and you could save a ton of space putting the video card over the water block that goes over the CPU.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

It can already be put there? And the objective isn't to stay as small as possible anymore. The original iteration of the case was like that but you were seriously limited in hardware choice and Dan said it was horrible to build the computer, when he tried it in his prototype.

The case is more about SFF but with flexibility now (it first got about 10 mm wider to accomodate GPUs in a normal layout and now 6mm bigger to also fit 3-slot GPUs). You can use decent air coolers or watercooling and fat (cooler/quieter) GPUs without losing CPU cooler or radiator clearance.

I like it because GPUs aren't getting smaller and people can do fine air-cooled builds in the case if they want, too.

Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

Anyone have thoughts on the different B450 mITX boards? Trying to decide between the ASRock and Asus. Originally was leaning toward the ASRock due to its additional connectivity options (USB-C and digital audio out), but after doing more research it sounds like the Asus would be a better option for future CPU upgradability (due to better VRM setup) and future case compatibility (due to offering a m.2 slot on the front: I've read some cases will throttle back mounted NVMe drives due to heat from the GPU/lack of airflow). I'm planning on using a R5 3600, so the ASRock's VRM should be fine, but I am planning on using an m.2 NVMe drive as my only storage. With only a $9 difference in price currently, it seems like the Asus is the safer bet (no current plans to use the ASRock's digital audio out).

Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:44 on May 5, 2020

Scientist Al Gore
May 20, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 47 hours!


orcane posted:

It can already be put there? And the objective isn't to stay as small as possible anymore. The original iteration of the case was like that but you were seriously limited in hardware choice and Dan said it was horrible to build the computer, when he tried it in his prototype.

The case is more about SFF but with flexibility now (it first got about 10 mm wider to accomodate GPUs in a normal layout and now 6mm bigger to also fit 3-slot GPUs). You can use decent air coolers or watercooling and fat (cooler/quieter) GPUs without losing CPU cooler or radiator clearance.

I like it because GPUs aren't getting smaller and people can do fine air-cooled builds in the case if they want, too.

It can be but then you have extra wasted space! I will admit though assembling the Dan A4 was not easy. The tolerances are quite extreme.

Gonna Send It
Jul 8, 2010


Splinter posted:

Anyone have thoughts on the different B450 mITX boards? Trying to decide between the ASRock and Asus. Originally was leaning toward the ASRock due to its additional connectivity options (USB-C and digital audio out), but after doing more research it sounds like the Asus would be a better option for future CPU upgradability (due to better VRM setup) and future case compatibility (due to offering a m.2 slot on the front: I've read some cases will throttle back mounted NVMe drives due to heat from the GPU/lack of airflow). I'm planning on using a R5 3600, so the ASRock's VRM should be fine, but I am planning on using an m.2 NVMe drive as my only storage. With only a $9 difference in price currently, it seems like the Asus is the safer bet (no current plans to use the ASRock's digital audio out).

I had the Asus B450i but my memory would only post at 3600mhz periodically (Gskill Royal Z, on the QVL list but I have a feeling it was copy pasted from the X470 list). After tons of tinkering, this pissed me off to the point I bought a Gigabyte X570. The power control also seems to be better on the Gigabyte; it idles at 40C instead of 50C.

Another annoyance was that the fan control had no delay (it said it did, but it doesn't work), so it'd ramp up/down noticeably because Ryzen bounces around like crazy. The Asus RGB software is way better than Gigabyte software if you're into that. Keep in mind using the front slot in NVMe will limit the PCIE slot to 8x; I didn't benchmark this to see if there was any difference, just something to be aware of.

As you can see from this list's recommendations, the Asrock would be totally fine with a stock 3800x or a 3900x with some case airflow https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...t#gid=611478281

Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

Gonna Send It posted:

Keep in mind using the front slot in NVMe will limit the PCIE slot to 8x; I didn't benchmark this to see if there was any difference, just something to be aware of.
Are you sure it's not the other way around (NVMe in the back slot limits PCIE slot)? I had looked into this, my take away was it is the M.2_2 slot that shares w/ the PCIE slot, and from what I could tell zooming in on pictures of the board, the M.2_2 slot is on the back.

Thanks for that spreadsheet. It is good to get some perspective on the real world effect of the VRM differences, rather than a bunch of "VRM on the ASRock is bad" posts.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Scientist Al Gore posted:

It can be but then you have extra wasted space! I will admit though assembling the Dan A4 was not easy. The tolerances are quite extreme.
A case where you have no/minimal "extra" space would basically be tailor made for a specific configuration (like a console?), and I assume he actually wants to sell the case to more than five people

And it was worse than the A4, apparently.

owls or something
Jul 7, 2003



Splinter posted:

Anyone have thoughts on the different B450 mITX boards? Trying to decide between the ASRock and Asus. Originally was leaning toward the ASRock due to its additional connectivity options (USB-C and digital audio out), but after doing more research it sounds like the Asus would be a better option for future CPU upgradability (due to better VRM setup) and future case compatibility (due to offering a m.2 slot on the front: I've read some cases will throttle back mounted NVMe drives due to heat from the GPU/lack of airflow). I'm planning on using a R5 3600, so the ASRock's VRM should be fine, but I am planning on using an m.2 NVMe drive as my only storage. With only a $9 difference in price currently, it seems like the Asus is the safer bet (no current plans to use the ASRock's digital audio out).

Anecdote: My SFF build has been using the ASRock B450 mITX for a few months now with a 3600X & 3600mhz RAM that is not on the QVL and I haven't had any issues so far.

If they're both at the same price point I'd probably choose the ASUS, though.

Gonna Send It
Jul 8, 2010


Splinter posted:

Are you sure it's not the other way around (NVMe in the back slot limits PCIE slot)? I had looked into this, my take away was it is the M.2_2 slot that shares w/ the PCIE slot, and from what I could tell zooming in on pictures of the board, the M.2_2 slot is on the back.

Thanks for that spreadsheet. It is good to get some perspective on the real world effect of the VRM differences, rather than a bunch of "VRM on the ASRock is bad" posts.

Oh, you are correct. I thought I had a SATA SSD in the back, but it was NVMe.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Replacing my Cooler Master Elite 130 case with a SilverStone SG13B, which has a 120/140mm fan mount on the front. Should I set that as intake or exhaust? And what 120/140mm fan should I get? Something from Noctua? I'm not super particular about noise, but a nice quiet fan that pushes a lot of air would be nice if it's not too pricey.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010



Buglord

Internet says that intake is good for the front. I have a 120mm Noctua fan (NF-A12x25 PWM) set as Intake in the front because 140mm gets in the way of my GPU. Incredibly silent and moves a lot of air. I even have a 92x14mm side fan as an exhaust, held up by sandwich twist ties.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





I wish more info about B550 offerings was out. I'm hoping a few of the ITX boards will offer the key A header for front panel USB-C, so there will be more native AM4 options than the Crosshair Impact.

It's been wild watching component prices as the pandemic progresses.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

buglord posted:

Internet says that intake is good for the front.

I only asked because I watched Hardware Canucks review of the SG13 before buying, and they put in the front fan as exhaust which made me question if I've been doing it wrong with ITX/SFF builds all along lmao. But I just saw a couple YT comments say it's dumb to do that since the front of the case is the only part that has a dust filter, heh. Intake it is And yeah, I think I'll assemble first to see how far the GPU reaches the front before I decide on whatever 140mm fan to get (I have an Antec 120mm TrueQuiet I can use from my old CM Elite 130).

kimcicle
Feb 23, 2003



Does anybody use VLP DDR4 ram? Everything I can find seems to be server memory. I have a Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP that only worked with VLP DDR3 ram (ended up using some Crucial Ballistix VLP), but trying to shift to a AM4 / DDR4 system has me wondering if I should just build completely from scratch rather than try to reuse some of my older components.

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005


Are you sure you actually need VLP RAM? Coolers generally don't require it (notable exception being the Black Ridge with a 120mm fan underneath) because it's not a common consumer part and every photo of the Shadow Rock LP show it with regular memory.

Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

Warmachine posted:

I wish more info about B550 offerings was out. I'm hoping a few of the ITX boards will offer the key A header for front panel USB-C, so there will be more native AM4 options than the Crosshair Impact.

It's been wild watching component prices as the pandemic progresses.

That hope has been one of the main reasons I've been holding out for B550 boards. Well, that and the fact that B450 mITX boards only come back in stock for a few hours at a time, so any hesitation or second thoughts makes finding one impossible. From what I gather, there will be B550 mITX boards available on the B550 launch date, but then you're getting something before full reviews are out and any initial issues are ironed out with BIOS updates. I'm not the kind of person that updates CPUs often, so Zen3 support isn't a huge deal for me, and while PCIe 4.0 is nice in theory, it's probable that I'd be doing a new build by the time mid range hardware actually needs the PCIe 4.0 bandwidth. At this point it really feels like I'm just waiting in hopes of front panel USB-C compatibility, so if that's missing from the mITX varieties (possibly due to lack of space?) I'm going to feel dumb for waiting.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Splinter posted:

That hope has been one of the main reasons I've been holding out for B550 boards. Well, that and the fact that B450 mITX boards only come back in stock for a few hours at a time, so any hesitation or second thoughts makes finding one impossible. From what I gather, there will be B550 mITX boards available on the B550 launch date, but then you're getting something before full reviews are out and any initial issues are ironed out with BIOS updates. I'm not the kind of person that updates CPUs often, so Zen3 support isn't a huge deal for me, and while PCIe 4.0 is nice in theory, it's probable that I'd be doing a new build by the time mid range hardware actually needs the PCIe 4.0 bandwidth. At this point it really feels like I'm just waiting in hopes of front panel USB-C compatibility, so if that's missing from the mITX varieties (possibly due to lack of space?) I'm going to feel dumb for waiting.

That's where I'm landing. I've talked myself out of the interest in B550's features: PCIe Gen 4 is cool, but NVMe drives that use it are expensive and the gains aren't worth the price at this time. AM4 isn't going to last past Zen 3, so I missed the boat on that. DDR5 is coming soon, which will require a new motherboard anyway.

So ultimately, I'm probably sticking with Intel for this build. Raw clock speed is more important for what I do anyway, and that's the one thing Intel does well, and as an upshot the headers are easy to find on Intel boards.

When DDR5 drops, I'll definitely do a better timed build.

an actual dog
Nov 18, 2014

woof woof
I am a dog and I'm posting online. it's good to post online with friends.
woof bark woof



Is there anything that font panel 10 gigbit ports are actually useful for? I don't think I own anything that could actually use that bandwidth. I've seen some case designs that at some point had two USB 3.0 ports on the front but they replaced one with USB-C, which is annoying.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





an actual dog posted:

Is there anything that font panel 10 gigbit ports are actually useful for? I don't think I own anything that could actually use that bandwidth. I've seen some case designs that at some point had two USB 3.0 ports on the front but they replaced one with USB-C, which is annoying.

External drives can use the bandwidth, and phones can use the power. Those are the primary applications I can think of.

kimcicle
Feb 23, 2003



Llamadeus posted:

Are you sure you actually need VLP RAM? Coolers generally don't require it (notable exception being the Black Ridge with a 120mm fan underneath) because it's not a common consumer part and every photo of the Shadow Rock LP show it with regular memory.

That's what I thought when I first bough it for my current setup, but due to the way the motherboard was laid out I could only position it where the heat sink goes over the ram slots, and regular height DDR3 wouldn't fit. It'll probably be the same for the next motherboard, so going with VLP ram would take a lot of the guesswork out of things.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Most of the remaining parts for my Ncase M1 are on the way. So far....

Purchased
CPU: i7-10700k
Motherboard: Asus z490-i
RAM: Patriot Viper Steel 2x8GB @4400
Storage: 2TB Intel 660p
PSU: Corsair SF 600
Cooling: Alphacool Eisbaer LT240

Still to order
Storage: 2-3x 2TB Seagate 2.5in HDD @5400 (2x should be no problem, 3x might be based on what I have below)
GPU: 2070 Super FE card
Additional case fans as necessary

This is replacing a computer I built in 2013 or 2014 (I can't remember off the top of my head). Graphics cards basically don't exist right now, so I'll probably end up waiting for ampere or something. The more interesting bit is why I went with the Eisbaer. I'm going to try and set this thing up as a CPU+GPU loop. At minimum I know I can do the CPU with the Eisbaer, and the fact that the Eisbaer is piss easy to expand on made it the clear choice for an "AIO."

For the loop, I expect to be getting the following parts at a later date:
FrozenQ Ncase M1 rear mounted reservoir
EKWB 240SE radiator
The thinnest GPU water block I can find (probably also an EKWB)
2x 120x15mm Noctua fans.
Hose and fittings to match

The GPU loop part is still vague and undefined right now, but the system should be able to run with no issue on the initial package of parts.

Splinter
Jul 4, 2003
Cowabunga!

The B550 mITX boards delivered:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550%...ITXax/index.asp

https://edgeup.asus.com/2020/b550-m...f-gaming-prime/

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Be interesting to see if the Asus board can run ram that fast...

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010



Looks like Asus version has 70A VRMs and tiny fan for active cooling while AsRock has 90A VRM just by their lonesome.

For anyone here with X570-i motherboards, how noisy are fans on those?

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....

iv46vi posted:

Looks like Asus version has 70A VRMs and tiny fan for active cooling while AsRock has 90A VRM just by their lonesome.

For anyone here with X570-i motherboards, how noisy are fans on those?

All I hear on my asus x570-i is the nf-a9 of my u9s... No complaints.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Did a build for a friend with an ASRock X570M Pro4, didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

Mistikman
Jan 21, 2001

I was born ready. I'm Ron Fucking Swanson.

Man, I am building a new computer with top shelf components, and I have everything except the case.

I have a big hard-on for the Dan Case A4-SFX, but it won't be in stock new until July it looks like (hopefully, who knows how long it may really be with how hosed everything is), and the only people selling them online are adding hilarious markups to used ones.

I just want to put my stuff in an impossibly tiny case

Also I kind of wonder if it's at all viable to use the 92mm asetek watercooling solution with a custom loop involving the video card. I am guessing that would be garbage on the thermals, but the idea of having both the CPU and video card water cooled in such a tiny case has piqued my curiosity.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


iv46vi posted:

Looks like Asus version has 70A VRMs and tiny fan for active cooling while AsRock has 90A VRM just by their lonesome.

For anyone here with X570-i motherboards, how noisy are fans on those?

noisy. i have an x570 itx/tb3 and this fucker shits all over it

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000



Mistikman posted:

I have a big hard-on for the Dan Case A4-SFX, but it won't be in stock new until July it looks like (hopefully, who knows how long it may really be with how hosed everything is), and the only people selling them online are adding hilarious markups to used ones.

I have an unused Dan A4 case from the first Kickstarter campaign I should give away. I just use a MacBook and random work junk these days.

PM me if anyone wants the case.

MrMoo fucked around with this message at 19:28 on May 25, 2020

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bug chaser chaser
Dec 11, 2006



This motherboard shortage is rough. Have everything for my NCASE build but a mono right now and they are going for $200 over MSRP on eBay now

Iím hoping that BLT comes through, but are there any other places I should check?

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