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Kazinsal posted:Oh man. I've been waiting for this thread but didn't want to be the one to start it. If you want to write it, I'll certainly read it. I built an iptables-based gateway recently in an old full-size PC and the APU boards look like they would offer just about everything that does except the number of SATA ports, with a fraction of the power consumption and size.
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May 20, 2016 01:18
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Very nice, thanks for the writeup. Since it's an x86 computer I assume that there are a variety of OSes available from general-purpose Linux distros or whatever to something purpose-specific like pfsense, but with coreboot and no KVM connections the process has to be a bit different. Do you just hook it up to a serial port like a Cisco box and choose a boot volume through CLI, then go from there with installation and setup?
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May 21, 2016 04:45
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Does Windows, even Windows Server support coreboot? I thought I read that you couldn't put Windows on a Chromebook for this reason, and that you'd have to put Linux or similar on one of these boards for the same reason.
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May 21, 2016 05:44
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knox_harrington posted:I'm just halfway through building a small thin-mini itx system as a htpc. I bought a few parts because they were cheap, kind of coming to the conclusion that a NUC would have been more sensible. I guess this computer will be better in the end. I have a Silverstone Pt13 with an AR04 cpu cooler, an Asus H81t motherboard, an i3 4130, 4GB ram. Still to arrive are the msata SSD which I accidentally ordered from Hong Kong, the wireless card which is an Intel AC pci-e one, and some internal laptop wifi antennas. A NUC would probably have been easier, but you can take some solace in the fact that what you have is faster and more upgradeable. Which version of the Compute Stick did you get? I heard that the Bay Trail version's wireless is pretty dire but it's a lot better in the new Cherry Trail/Skylake revisions. I just checked the Anandtech review again though and they complained about the wireless drivers not being included in Windows 10 and about the storage still being only 32GB, which is almost a dealbreaker by itself for me. I wouldn't go under 64GB of storage for a Windows machine unless I knew it wouldn't ever have to run anything but a web browser.
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May 21, 2016 19:25
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VulgarandStupid posted:The compute sticks have microSD slots, so you can add a pretty good amount of storage to them. Sure, but microSD isn't the same as having an adequate amount of space on the system partition in the first place. Installing programs to the microSD isn't really ideal.
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May 22, 2016 06:35
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knox_harrington posted:The compute stick is a Lenovo Ideacentre Stick 300, it's Bay Trail. I've used a Bay Trail tablet and whole it doesn't set any records it's more or less ok for Web browsing and watching video, I assumed it would be the same on the stick but that didn't work out. It looks like there are drivers for Windows 10 on their website, but 32-bit only which makes me suspect that the device is EFI-locked to 32-bit despite having a 64-bit processor. Not that it really matters, no one will ever run a program that needs it on an Atom with 2GB of memory. You'd probably want to use the USB port for mouse/KB and add the drivers on a microSD card, or use a hub so that you can plug a flash drive (or another wireless adapter with drivers built in) and mouse/KB in together.
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May 22, 2016 15:50
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Have you looked into the Xeon E3 series? The latest is v5/Skylake - they're basically just desktop processors with server features added, and their prices roughly match the desktop processors (starting at around i5-6600 level, no dual cores here) so you wouldn't be paying a Xeon premium as long as you could find a compatible motherboard that works for you at a good price. You probably don't need ECC though, that seems like it would only be necessary if stability is paramount or you have persistent data being created that can't have errors. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 23, 2016 |
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May 23, 2016 14:25
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Wow, I never realized that but it makes sense if they're not going to bother selling dual-core Xeon E3s. It looks like all of the dual-core desktop chips do since Haswell actually, Ark lists support on Pentiums and Celerons as well. That makes ideas for a low power but full functionality home server a lot easier.
Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 23, 2016 |
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May 23, 2016 15:51
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:Yeah I got a g3258, but I'm really not interested in paying $200 for a mini-itx c226, plus whatever extra ECC ram is. I think I can risk a zfs pool being corrupted for a home plex server. It's just video lol Are you sure you need a special motherboard? The memory controller is inside the processor, I think the motherboard just provides traces and power. I agree that it's not that big of a deal for a Plex server in particular, it was just interesting to me because I recently set up a home server based on an old X58 system. It works great but is kind of overkill and uses around 100W, so I was thinking how it would be nice to get a newer and lower powered dual-core. Probably not worth the expense but it's something to keep in mind for the future. ECC memory tends to be pretty expensive new (especially since most of it is registered too and that won't work in a desktop board), but if you're willing to risk eBay it's not bad. I got a matched 3x4GB set for the system mentioned above for $17 a stick, which is about what normal memory costs. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 23, 2016 |
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May 23, 2016 16:47
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Is anyone expecting it to be otherwise? It would be a hell of a thing to fit midrange discrete performance from a few years ago into the power envelope and die space of a 45W mobile chip, on top of the four CPU cores. I think the review does mention that there's some thermal throttling which is the disappointing thing to me since they aren't really as restricted by height/weight requirements as normal mobile platforms.
Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 20:38 on May 23, 2016 |
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May 23, 2016 20:23
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I haven't been able to find any good sources myself. This is all I have to go on: - My X58 (which is a consumer chipset, though more like X99 than something like H170) system from 2008 will run ECC just fine with an ECC-supporting processor. This is from the first generation of Intel processors with integrated memory controller. - I can't find anyone saying that they tried it and it didn't work, just that they would think that it doesn't work. - Ark's entries for Haswell and Skylake chipsets say nothing about ECC, but the processors do have support status listed whether it's a yes or a no. Older chipsets for Core 2 do list when ECC is not supported. - It would be a little weird for a $42 Celeron to support ECC but require a workstation chipset to do it, although this is a pretty weak point by itself. Have you found any sources that look good saying one way or another? Searching around, it looks like a lot of motherboards advertise supporting specifically non-ECC memory so maybe there's some extra BIOS work required to support it and they're mostly not bothering, or maybe they just don't want to do the work to validate ECC working with an i3 on a motherboard that will mostly be used for i5s and i7s anyway. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 00:47 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 00:35
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HalloKitty posted:Not personally fond of the huge, questionable quality laptop brick idea. I also wonder of the validity of a claim of being smaller, but ignoring the PSU. (see Xbox 360 vs PS3). Yeah, hopefully the DC-DC PSU would keep voltages in line but I am wondering how a 330W passively cooled laptop brick is expected to not be a fire hazard for extended gaming sessions.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:31
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Salted_Pork posted:My mobo only supports 2 fans (1 cpu, and 1 case), but is there some other way to power two 80 mm fans at the back of the case, to get better air flow? You can get adapters to convert from Molex (or SATA, probably) on your PSU to fan headers, or the more expensive route of new fans that connect to Molex directly. Be aware though that some 80mm fans are quite fast and loud at the full 12V, so if you have ones like this you may want to get 5V or 7V adapters like Noctua's NA-SRC10 to slow them down. I actually have the Core V1 for a BGA Celeron board which works fine passively cooled and turned the front fan down to the lowest voltage that would spin it up, which made it really silent as far as I could tell.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:33
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sirbeefalot posted:I'd like to price out a super slim, low power requirement office PC, but have no clue where to start with a case. This would be an internet/Office/very light multimedia consumption device, so I think integrated graphics will be more than enough; a single decent SSD, ~8GB RAM, and not much else would be required. What are some recommended super slim/small cases that would allow for a nice quiet build with the bare minimum components? Second recommendation for a NUC here. Tiny, silent, and more than adequate for what you're describing if you get i3+ models. Dell, Lenovo and HP all make tiny PCs too but not that tiny, and more expensive. They aren't actually passively cooled (at least not my i3-5010U model), but the fan barely does anything unless you put it under extended load. Note that the i3/i5/i7-H models are slightly thicker to accomodate two drives, one M.2 and one 2.5" SATA. -K models are thinner and have the 2.5" bay removed. Pentium and Celeron models (which are cheap but should only be considered if you know they'll be fast enough) only come in H models and don't have the M.2 slot. There are actual industrial PCs out there that are NUC-like but passively cooled and sealed if you really really don't want it to get dusty, but they're definitely more expensive and I don't know much about them. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 18:17
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Kaleidoscopic Gaze posted:Alright, a few more questions: From what I've heard Pascal chips in general are limited to a greater degree by their BIOS locking the voltages and to a lesser degree by silicon lottery, so the main difference that the coolers end up making is just appearance and noise levels. The 6" 1060s are expected to perform similarly to larger models, so feel free to get one if it makes life easier/cheaper. I would be skeptical of paying any significant amount for SC or other modifiers that imply binning. Z170 is mandatory if you wish to overclock or run memory at faster than 2133MHz, which has been shown to make a nontrivial difference in some games. I would recommend it for any performance-sensitive system. If you aren't running a K-chip or high speed memory then it doesn't matter.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:34
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Not sure if this is the best thread but maybe there isn't one - has anyone used an Intel NUC with an active Mini DisplayPort-HDMI 2.0 adapter? I have a Broadwell i3 NUC that has no problem doing 4K @ 60Hz to a monitor over DisplayPort and a 4K TV that has no problem taking 4K @ 60Hz from my Haswell MacBook Pro or Latitude E7270 through an adapter, but if I combine the adapter and the NUC I can't get over 30Hz. If I try to manually set a custom resolution at 60Hz through the Intel control panel, I am told that there's insufficient bandwidth. I don't know if there's some special trick I'm missing or if it's just a weird incompatibility. Related question, why is there not a single 4K TV on the face of the earth with DisplayPort?
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Nov 4, 2016 05:02
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:One thing I find peculiar is apparently the +12V rail is 0.048V and the -12V rail is -4.320V. Is this actually okay? Either your program is reading the wrong sensors or the sensor isn't working correctly - the +12V rail is necessary for most of the components in the machine and you'd probably see issues if it was only 90% of what it should be, let alone 0.4%. What are you using to get these readings?
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Dec 18, 2016 23:05
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:HWMonitor. VulgarandStupid told me to try it a few posts ago so here I am. Ah, ok. Well, I have that installed on my own desktop but it's not giving me a +12V reading at all so who knows. Are there any other voltage readings that are anything close to +12V? Generally on any of the important rails (12V, 5V, less so 3.3V) 5% is the maximum tolerable variance from nominal voltage so if the system turns on at all it has to be close. The program might have the sensors mislabeled and there's another one that is actually the +12V rail, or it might just not be detecting a sensor on the +12V rail at all and giving you something totally wrong in an attempt to do its best.
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Dec 19, 2016 06:56
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I'll be surprised if you can hear the stock cooler over that blower 1070 under load and I'd be surprised if you can hear either when you're idling, and it doesn't really confer any benefit to run at 30C instead of 50C if you're not able to overclock. You can buy it if you want, but it's definitely unnecessary.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:48
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AEMINAL posted:fractal nano s master race. Small is a relative term; if you're going to ask why someone doesn't get a full-depth case to allow for normal parts, they might ask you why mini ITX matters at all if you're OK with a 27L case.  The Node 202 is barely a third of that volume.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:26
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Oh, I totally agree that it looks great - I have the full-size Define S and like it a lot. But the Nano S has almost the same footprint as the full sized thing and is over half the height - it's smaller, but so that you still have room for airflow they're not doing much shrinking beyond the obvious reduction in the mainboard backplate.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:37
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I have a Core V1 with an embedded (Atom) Braswell Celeron ASRock board (which uses vertical SODIMMs!) as a home server and it works great. Definitely don't need the space it provides for a big CPU cooler or GPU, but I like the 2x 2.5" + 2x 3.5" bays and I can get by with just the included front 200mm fan since the Celeron is passively cooled.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:21
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Grundulum posted:You were originally considering the integrated graphics on your CPU, so either you're woefully underinformed about iGPU performance or you don't play very taxing games. If the latter, you can save a lot of money dropping down to a GTX 1050. I would add that an RX 470 or 480 or GTX 1060 is a good midrange GPU option between the 1050 and the 1070. For the chipset it helps to talk about specifics - notably that B150 doesn't have NVMe support and has 8 fewer PCIe lanes to allocate to peripherals from the chipset. If you don't care about NVMe and the motherboard has enough expansion options for you it may be fine, but the price difference is typically small so I would recommend erring on the side of caution. Personally, I think going for the Z170/270 chipsets can make sense even if you're not going to immediately use the headline features depending on how long you plan to keep the machine. I usually keep desktops for 5+ years and end up giving them significant upgrades later in life. With the current rate of Intel desktop chip improvement, you may find in a few years that being able to upgrade to an overclockable 6600K/7600K would give you the same improvement as upgrading to Ice Lake or whatever at stock speed. If you're restricted on budget though, both H170 and B150 have their place. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 16:10
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:(Of course those are both rather good parts, and I'd be more interested in how a lower end one (such as in a pre-built dell or something) would work) I can add that my Dell T20 micro-ATX E3-1225 v3/C226 (~i5-4460) system with 4x4GB ECC DDR3 DIMMs, a SATA SSD and a 3.5" SATA HDD running on a 280W 80+ Bronze PSU idles at around 30W in CentOS 7. Compared to my i7-920 system, which even swapped with an underclocked L5520 @0.9V and a fanless 80+ Platinum PSU used 70W idle, it's a lot more attractive as a home server. I currently use a Braswell N3150 system that takes about 20W with two DDR3L DIMMs and an SSD and while I haven't found much to beat that target and retain normal PC I/O connectivity options, if I ever find myself needing more speed I'm happy to know that Haswell is so efficient. I wish that there were consumer boards available with full mobile chips soldered-in, kind of like something between a NUC and a Xeon D system. The Braswell system that I use is a good starter NAS but if it had slots for multiple expansion cards and a little bit faster CPU then it would feel more perfect for the purpose. Coming from the other direction, I don't imagine that a desktop i3 idles that much higher than a mobile dual-core but without the option to undervolt on most boards there's no way to optimize it for 24/7 use.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:27
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Zero VGS posted:This is $170, fanless, and is the size of a smartphone: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883722004 That's Cherry Trail, not Skylake. Hardware encoding support might be similar but CPU capabilities are not at all, it's a low-power tablet/phone processor. If you're going to get an old desktop for an HTPC I'd reach a generation newer and get a quad-core Sandy Bridge instead of a dual-core Lynnfield for not much price difference. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 02:57
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lock stock and Cheryl posted:I can't wait until everything (especially SFF PCs and peripherals) uses type-C ports and we don't have to worry about port/adapter hell. Any guesses on the timeframes for that? Kaby Lake NUCs are available now, so you don't need to wait or get an adapter.
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Mar 14, 2017 07:52
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Zero VGS posted:Looks like only the i3 but I guess that's still plenty for media serving. Decoding happens in dedicated hardware and I haven't heard of it differing at all from one model to another, so that's the one I'd recommend anyway.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:49
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I don't know that I ever saw issues with heat in mine but most models have a 15W dual-core so you're not going to be thrilled by CPU performance. You could use the quad-core Skull Canyon for a much better situation there, but of course that would cost substantially more.
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Mar 17, 2017 05:37
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I did some research on this around January and ended up concluding that Thermal Grizzly Aeronaut is good bang for buck, being a solid performer and $11/7.8g on Amazon. Haven't actually had an occasion to use it yet, but I feel like it came up really high in the rankings in a paste roundup at Tom's Hardware or maybe another tech site. e: Here it is, not Tom's Hardware but it's a good assortment of options. There are a lot of pastes that are rated a little bit higher, but most of the ones I was able to find cost substantially more and aren't that much better except for the liquid metal ones. The other TG pastes Hydronaut and Kryonaut for example, they're on Amazon but come in much smaller tubes. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 14:48
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If you plan to end up on 10 you can just put the Windows 7 key into the 10 installer and not have to go through 7 at all. If you want to install 7 for some reason, you can do it without a USB2 port or an optical drive if you have a spare SATA drive with an external enclosure/adapter. Connect the spare to a working machine and write the installer to it as if it were a flash drive using something like Rufus. Then, attach it to the new machine over internal SATA at the same time as your install destination and boot off of the spare to get your installer.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:48
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Using an HDTV as your main monitor works great, I've done it for years. Not sure why it would be a pain in the rear end other than the obvious constraint that they have to be physically close enough for a HDMI cable. I think the V1 probably doesn't need the rear fans with only a 75W GPU and a good front fan; it's basically a straight shot through the case and the front fan is almost the entire area of the front panel. If you are going to get rear fans I'd make sure you either can slow them down with the motherboard headers or get some low-voltage adapters, since 80mm fans can be pretty annoying at full speed.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:11
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Yeah, if by reference you mean FE the fan won't ever turn all the way off. My 1060 FE idles around 1200-1300, but it's not audible over the case fans.
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Dec 10, 2017 22:43
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Olivil posted:Instead of a gaming SFF, how stupid would it be to run something like a NUC with an external GPU? I'm talking GTX 1080 class GPU. You're going to be CPU bottlenecking yourself on a lot of games with the standard NUCs (anything except Skull Canyon) since they use 15W U-series processors. It looks like there are Kaby Lake-R models out now so you could get a quad-core, but from what I've read the 15W quads run much slower under prolonged load than 35-45W ones. It might not hold a 1050 or 1060 back much depending on the application, but still I think a laptop with a 7700HQ and mobile 1060 would be cheaper than the NUC+enclosure+GPU and probably perform better. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 23:29
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jokes posted:I'm looking at that 8400. I have a 6700k I don't overclock (I was going to before I got an ITX case) that I can sell for roughly what I paid for it and buy an 8400 instead. Swapping out my motherboard with a newer B-class one, I'll end up making like $50. Am I correct in seeing that an 8400 is as good as a non-OC i7-6700k? I'd say so in general. The 6700k will clock a little bit higher but nowhere near enough to make up for two more cores unless they aren't being used at all.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:19
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slidebite posted:How good are the little prebuilt mini systems with a J5005 processor for general web browsing, point and click games, maybe 10+ year old other titles? If this one data point helps any, Classic WoW runs fine at 540p (scaled to native res) on a Surface 3 which I'm pretty sure is lower performance in every meaningful way.
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Feb 23, 2020 19:44
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Warmachine posted:I'm surprised your processor hasn't melted its way through the backplate. The 2W processor that uses the whole aluminum chassis as a heatsink? No problems at all.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:22
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