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Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011


1337JiveTurkey posted:

Don't forget that they completely redid logistics in a way that's less resource intensive to simulate, easier for the computer to make decisions based on and making everybody freak the gently caress out because why couldn't Hitler build some Speer-sized pseudo-neoclassical monstrosity of a gas tank and fill it with enough fuel in 1936 to last him for the whole war?
Half the fun of the Hearts of Iron games are tracing down who is doing the complaining, and deducing whether or not the complain is viable unless you are doing anything else than playing Germany for all your playthroughs and want the game to appropriately represent the realistic potential of the Third Reich.

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Khisanth Magus
Mar 30, 2011

Vae Victus

I have one very important question about HoI4: If you play as Germany can you build the utterly impractical and yet awesome super weapons that Germany was working on in WW2? Up to and including the cannon that could fire on England from Europe.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Khisanth Magus posted:

I have one very important question about HoI4: If you play as Germany can you build the utterly impractical and yet awesome super weapons that Germany was working on in WW2? Up to and including the cannon that could fire on England from Europe.

No

You'll spam infantry and you'll like it

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011


Khisanth Magus posted:

I have one very important question about HoI4: If you play as Germany can you build the utterly impractical and yet awesome super weapons that Germany was working on in WW2? Up to and including the cannon that could fire on England from Europe.

Tank destroyer variants for armoured vehicles are in the game, yes.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I'm gonna play as America and do my customary "Make the Phillippines into a Vietnam-esque boondoggle for the Japanese" then come in a year or two later and BTFO japan with my shiny new toys I built with all the industry I get

unless HoI4 railroads again

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

Do we get a proper assault gun class this time ? Considering how many StuGs and SUs the Germans and Soviets built, it always irked me that this wasn't in the game.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Hammerstein posted:

Do we get a proper assault gun class this time ? Considering how many StuGs and SUs the Germans and Soviets built, it always irked me that this wasn't in the game.

According to a dev diary, the stug is classified as a tank destroyer variant of the panzer chasis

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

Kaza42 posted:

According to a dev diary, the stug is classified as a tank destroyer variant of the panzer chasis

Well I meant stuff like the StuH42, the Brummbär, the Sturmtiger, the short barrelled SU-122, the SU-152 and various other stuff.

I believe the distinct difference between tank destroyers and assault guns is worth modeling.

DOMDOM
Apr 28, 2007



Fun Shoe

Paradox posted:

- What exactly is meant with the German version?
- The German version lacks a certain DLC component which results in the following:
1) a bunch of prominent nazis is displayed as dark silhouettes instead of a colored portrait.
2) some speeches in events are different
3) SS generals have no skulls on their caps
4) event pictures with hitler and stuff from point 1 are different
German laws are silly, but all these changes are cosmetic and stupid reasons not to buy. Particularly when we all know drat well there's going to be a day 1 mod to restore them anyways.

Amazing to see Paradox releasing back to back winners. What a time to be alive!

Khisanth Magus
Mar 30, 2011

Vae Victus

My main concern right now from the last few wednesday things is that huge swarms of infantry might overshadow all other options. I'm really hoping it was just that particular person's play style and using lots of armor is just as possible.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

The only mystery left,
is what I put in your tea.


PleasingFungus posted:

Does changing country map colours in EU4 still invalidate achievements?

It does, because to change a country colour you have to edit the <country>.txt file under \common\countries. If your mod is altering stuff inside \gfx or \localization then it will have no effect on Checksum. Or at least that's how it worked last time I modded these games.

cKnoor
Nov 2, 2000

I built this thumb out of two nails, a broken bottle and some razorwire.


College Slice

Khisanth Magus posted:

My main concern right now from the last few wednesday things is that huge swarms of infantry might overshadow all other options. I'm really hoping it was just that particular person's play style and using lots of armor is just as possible.

Last WWW was Daniel playing Poland and not having enough time / resources for anything else. So I don't really think you can look at that and assuming infantry swarms are OP....

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


cKnoor posted:

Last WWW was Daniel playing Poland and not having enough time / resources for anything else. So I don't really think you can look at that and assuming infantry swarms are OP....

And the one before was Hungary where he used nothing but infantry swarms (converting his starting cavalry to infantry was a nice touch), the one before that was infantry swarm Japan, and the one before that was Germany where he used infantry swarms...

On Tuesday we got to see France gearing up for infantry swarm warfare though, that was a change of pace

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

DOMDOM posted:

German laws are silly, but all these changes are cosmetic and stupid reasons not to buy. Particularly when we all know drat well there's going to be a day 1 mod to restore them anyways.

Amazing to see Paradox releasing back to back winners. What a time to be alive!

Yes, but it's still kinda dumb.

I mean I'm from Austria and looks like this poo poo does not affect me this time:

https://steamdb.info/sub/102617/info/

Wasn't always like that in the past, when game companies were all like "Hey there were Nazis too, let's dump them into one basket" (...correct about the Nazi part though).

What irks me is that censorship like that won't delete German (and Austrian) crimes of the past. Hitler and the Nazis are unfortunately part of our history and calling him Hinkel and blackening the picture is only gonna make people more curious. It reminds me of these old Stalin photographs where the victims of the purges were edited out.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


Remember, Paradox dictates the law in Germany.

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

Wooper posted:

Remember, Paradox dictates the law in Germany.

Not bitching about Paradox but about German laws. Sorry if that came over as weird, but it's a touchy subject where I live.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Hammerstein posted:

Not bitching about Paradox but about German laws. Sorry if that came over as weird, but it's a touchy subject where I live.

This "Hitler" guy sure has a lot to answer for! Jerk!

DOMDOM
Apr 28, 2007



Fun Shoe

Yeah I agree, it's whitewashing and loving stupid. A lot of German law is built around this revisionist idiocracy. But all them folks getting mad at paradox need to write their local politicians instead of spamming IMMMM CANCELING MY PREODRERING CUZ NO HITLER GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR threads on the forum.

At least we got slavery and purging in Stellaris TAKE THAT GERMANY!

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



Gort posted:

There isn't any difference statwise - it's just a picture and some text, same as every HoI game.

The interesting new bit is armament companies that modify every vehicle researched in some way.

It's definitely different just by the fact some nations get models in years others don't.

compare the german tank tree with the UK tech tree:





UK doesn't even get medium tanks until you've researched the first two light tank models. Which means you have to make a choice Germany doesn't between filling your armor divisions with light tanks or setting back production and spending a bunch of land XP to switch to medium.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Hm that first pic with the Germans tanks says pre-alpha, isn't the game in beta now? I imagine a lot has changed.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


That British tree is how every tank tree looks like, just with different names.

Those two pictures aren't even any different if you pretend Panzer 1 and 2 are under light tanks instead.

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

DOMDOM posted:

At least we got slavery and purging in Stellaris TAKE THAT GERMANY!

Wir müssen die Blorg ausrotten !!

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



Enjoy posted:

Hm that first pic with the Germans tanks says pre-alpha, isn't the game in beta now? I imagine a lot has changed.

oh



it's all the exact same.

I guess I have to cancel my pre-order now.

MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


I like how prior to the repudation of Versailles they're actually just tractors. Yes, this is a tractor factory. No violations of arms restrictions here, move along.

oscarthewilde
May 16, 2012


Hammerstein posted:

Well I meant stuff like the StuH42, the Brummbr, the Sturmtiger, the short barrelled SU-122, the SU-152 and various other stuff.

I believe the distinct difference between tank destroyers and assault guns is worth modeling.

In a tactical wargame those differences might have a definite effect but considering that the HOI series almost entirely focuses on the strategic level I don't think those minutiae are worth modeling. We're not talking Gary Grigsby here, you know, it's an entirely different kind of gaming, altogether.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


AFAIK those tech trees are the same across countries now, with different named vehicles added as flavor only.

e;f;b

^^^^ StuGs and such as a specialist step in Unity of Command worked wonders in hardening up infantry divisions. They might be a worthwhile addition as a support company or a substitute for SP artillery ^^^^

Re: not seeing (many) tanks, do remember that WWII was a conflict mostly fought by infantry, and that largeish amounts of mechanization should come at horrendous supply, materiel, and opportunity costs. Looks like the production system very much lays the groundwork for that though, and I can't wait to see what a couple of divisions with a handful of tank battalions each - backed up by mot infantry and CAS - can do as an exploitation group (this was p. much how the Panzergruppen worked during Barbarossa IIRC).

Koesj fucked around with this message at May 19, 2016 around 23:08

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



Koesj posted:

AFAIK those tech trees are the same across countries now, with different named vehicles added as flavor only.

My dreams of a late 80s mod where the USSR has 3 separate nearly identical tank lines to no discernible benefit is dead.

Airfoil
Sep 10, 2013

I'm a rocket man


DOMDOM posted:

Yeah I agree, it's whitewashing and loving stupid. A lot of German law is built around this revisionist idiocracy. But all them folks getting mad at paradox need to write their local politicians instead of spamming IMMMM CANCELING MY PREODRERING CUZ NO HITLER GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR threads on the forum.

At least we got slavery and purging in Stellaris TAKE THAT GERMANY!

It looks like all versions of the game have a German flag with an iron cross rather than a swastika. Why is no one pitching a fit about that?

MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY!

Fellbat
Feb 23, 2014


Hammerstein posted:


calling him Hinkel and blackening the picture is only gonna make people more curious.



If this isn't a day one mod I have lost faith in all of you.

az
Dec 2, 2005



DOMDOM posted:

Yeah I agree, it's whitewashing and loving stupid. A lot of German law is built around this revisionist idiocracy. But all them folks getting mad at paradox need to write their local politicians instead of spamming IMMMM CANCELING MY PREODRERING CUZ NO HITLER GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR threads on the forum.

At least we got slavery and purging in Stellaris TAKE THAT GERMANY!

No get that poo poo out of here. Germany is very much not revisionist towards WW2 and the law is direct result of denazification, curbing revivalism and protecting democratic values. It stipulates that media can only display certain Nazi affiliated things such as swastikas for educational, historical or a narrow band of artistic reasons. Display for sheer entertainment or the heck of it is verboten because dumb wehraboos would get ideas to heil hitler up and down the street with their lovely flags. Developers take them out beforehand because they don't want to risk the German video game classification agency to get an itchy trigger finger and restrict sales of their game because some dumb nazi nerd roleplays a swastika adorned Hitler pursuing the final solution in their entertainment product.

Tuskin38
May 1, 2013

Have you seen these posts?
They're pretty popular on Reddit.


DOMDOM posted:



At least we got slavery and purging in Stellaris TAKE THAT GERMANY!

Purging was called Genocide in earlier builds of the game.

1337JiveTurkey
Feb 17, 2005



College Slice

Ghost of Mussolini posted:

Half the fun of the Hearts of Iron games are tracing down who is doing the complaining, and deducing whether or not the complain is viable unless you are doing anything else than playing Germany for all your playthroughs and want the game to appropriately represent the realistic potential of the Third Reich.

To be fair, it also applies to the Japanese.

What really pisses off Wehraboos is the idea that German military doctrine wasn't handed down by Hitler God Himself and superior to absolutely everything else which is just rehashes of WWI tactics. All the good ideas are actually German, especially the good ideas that the Germans rejected. Or never came up with but would have if I were in charge.

ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013



Fellbat posted:



If this isn't a day one mod I have lost faith in all of you.

You already have the portrait.

You already have the power to make this come true.

Don't lose faith in yourself.

ThaumPenguin fucked around with this message at May 19, 2016 around 23:40

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

Fellbat posted:



If this isn't a day one mod I have lost faith in all of you.

This really should have been your solution pdox.

1337JiveTurkey
Feb 17, 2005



College Slice

National Focus: Springtime For Hitler

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




Is there a discord for hoi4?

DOMDOM
Apr 28, 2007



Fun Shoe

az posted:

No get that poo poo out of here. Germany is very much not revisionist towards WW2 and the law is direct result of denazification, curbing revivalism and protecting democratic values. It stipulates that media can only display certain Nazi affiliated things such as swastikas for educational, historical or a narrow band of artistic reasons. Display for sheer entertainment or the heck of it is verboten because dumb wehraboos would get ideas to heil hitler up and down the street with their lovely flags. Developers take them out beforehand because they don't want to risk the German video game classification agency to get an itchy trigger finger and restrict sales of their game because some dumb nazi nerd roleplays a swastika adorned Hitler pursuing the final solution in their entertainment product.
What makes me sad about this statement is that it basically says Germans can't be trusted without censorship and handholding, but I'll bite my tongue as the rest of this argument belongs in d&d

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012




Well, that's just great.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


DOMDOM posted:

What makes me sad about this statement is that it basically says Germans can't be trusted without censorship and handholding, but I'll bite my tongue as the rest of this argument belongs in d&d

What are you supposed to do? Just let Nazis get elected again?

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Fellbat
Feb 23, 2014


ThaumPenguin posted:

You already have the portrait.

You already have the power to make this come true.

Don't lose faith in yourself.

I legit would, but seeing as how this game needs a little more manpower then say, ck2, I might need to watch it vicariously because my little old laptop. Still gonna see if can get a good speed with nato symbols or some such. Which is sad because I want to see those drat tank skins. Only Paradox can suck me in with dlc.

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