Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«358 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

appropriatemetaphor posted:

Coming from EU4 I'm not sure what to like "do" in this game? Like I'm playing as Italy, got Ethiopia, conquered Yugo/Albania. Then World War 2 breaks out and Germany (my IRON FRIEND or whatever) conquers all of France/Low Countries. I grabbed Greece/Turkey, but not sure what to do now; I feel like I have "enough" territory but the war I guess goes for forever? I'm going to grab Iraq but I feel like I'm just sorta watching stuff happen with no real end goal in mind. Like what if I don't want to conquer the world?

*in games releasing DLC every fiscal quater voice*

Hoi4 is good.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HerraS
Apr 15, 2012

Looking professional when committing genocide is essential. This is mostly achieved by using a beret.

Olive drab colour ensures the genocider will remain hidden from his prey until it's too late for them to do anything.


HoI is much less of a sandbox where you can just gently caress around than other paradox games - youre better off setting a goal for yourself when you start a game (like getting cheevos)

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



HerraS posted:

HoI is much less of a sandbox where you can just gently caress around than other paradox games - youre better off setting a goal for yourself when you start a game (like getting cheevos)

Yeah the country selection process is much less about what kind of sandbox you want and more about what kind of war you want to fight - Germany is kind of the classic "me vs. everyone" focused a lot on aggression and with the industrial capacity to back it up. France is if you want a heavily defensive land war, the UK if you want to do a lot with planes and boats, that sort of thing. You don't really have as much freedom to do something like say, picking Brazil and deciding to conquor all of South America (you can do that, but half of it will be trivial conquests of nations way weaker than you and the other half will be a prolonged hellwar where you most likely have to force every Allied power into capitulation by yourself if you want to keep any of your gains).

Antares
Jan 13, 2006



The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah the country selection process is much less about what kind of sandbox you want and more about what kind of war you want to fight - Germany is kind of the classic "me vs. everyone" focused a lot on aggression and with the industrial capacity to back it up. France is if you want a heavily defensive land war, the UK if you want to do a lot with planes and boats, that sort of thing. You don't really have as much freedom to do something like say, picking Brazil and deciding to conquor all of South America (you can do that, but half of it will be trivial conquests of nations way weaker than you and the other half will be a prolonged hellwar where you most likely have to force every Allied power into capitulation by yourself if you want to keep any of your gains).

IMO this is why Death or Dishonor is much more interesting than TfV. When I try Commonwealth countries in TfV I feel railroaded by the focus tree and can't really affect the greater war much by the time I get past that (though I never tried a 'loyal'/Allied tree). Even countries with generic focus trees but in strategic positions are more engaging than Australia. A competent fascist Greece, communist Turkey, etc seem to help their respective factions a lot more.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

It's like how people look at the ideal navy composition arguments, but the reality is that given the timeframe of the game you are either building a small handful of ships based on what your economy will bear, or you are Germany having beaten Russia and you are crash building an entire navy from scratch in 3 boring years to take on the UK/US.

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



Grimey Drawer

Serbs running the HoI wiki?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Alchenar posted:

It's like how people look at the ideal navy composition arguments, but the reality is that given the timeframe of the game you are either building a small handful of ships based on what your economy will bear, or you are Germany having beaten Russia and you are crash building an entire navy from scratch in 3 boring years to take on the UK/US.

If my experience fighting invading Japan as China is anything to go by, Germany can probably just send a stream of single submarines to the English Channel one at a time to provoke long naval engagements, while pouring infinite naval bombers and fighters into the air zone above. I destroyed the entire Japanese navy as China that way, the UK and US would probably go the same way.

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012


ArchangeI posted:

It's a period known best for the term "total war", though.

But there are enough wars that ended without needing a complete invasion (Japan, Winter War) to make the possibility something reasonable in game. It is seriously discouraging to be stuck in a permanent war as South Africa after you essentially took all the Portuguese settlements there but can't manage to launch an invasion of Europe.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


joepinetree posted:

But there are enough wars that ended without needing a complete invasion (Japan, Winter War) to make the possibility something reasonable in game. It is seriously discouraging to be stuck in a permanent war as South Africa after you essentially took all the Portuguese settlements there but can't manage to launch an invasion of Europe.

They're definitely moving away from "All wars must be total" though. China can defeat Japan without invading the Home Islands next patch, for instance.

TsarZiedonis
Apr 10, 2009


I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil).

Playstation 4
Apr 25, 2014


TsarZiedonis posted:

I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil).

An insult to my glorious hometown of Yellowknife is what's going on.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

Hi guys I've realized that Judaism is the right way to go and i'm converting!!! I'm making aliyah to Israel and want some hot guys to "cum" with me I hope they have gloryholes in Tel Aviv! Shalom!

Gort posted:

They're definitely moving away from "All wars must be total" though. China can defeat Japan without invading the Home Islands next patch, for instance.

I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Soup du Journey posted:

I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power.

The big problem currently is that while nukes lower national unity, most countries have some way to raise their national unity, and national unity can't drop below zero plus any modifiers. What this means is that currently, Japan's national unity can't drop below like 45%, so you've gotta invade 55% of their victory points to make them capitulate.

This is all going to change in the next patch - National Unity's gone, replaced with War Support and Stability, so hopefully a bunch of the quirks that National Unity brought to the game (such as nations being able to take infinity nukes without surrendering) should be gone too.

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

just can't seem to shoo away that Schumer

Soup du Journey posted:

I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power.

After nuking the US down to minimum national unity, you only need to take one of their major urban centers plus a bit more to get them to capitulate. California, Texas, and a bit of the Southeast is enough, for instance.

The problem with Japan is that they get a ton of NU bonuses so you have to conquer like half the country, and there's no safe land route to get onto the Japanese islands so you have to invade entirely by sea.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


The country after Japan that annoyed me most with its ridiculous National Unity was Italy. You could conquer the entire country except for Sicily and they still wouldn't surrender, which is mad if you compare it to the actual history.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

I usually try to avoid invading through the Alps (like any sane commander) and instead pin their army there by holding on the French side while landing an invasion force further south on the boot.

Because the AI never sees fit to garrison the southern part of the country it's pretty easy to get a foot hold then race north. By the time you get to the northern part of the country whatever's left of their army is usually starving to death in Milan. If they do hold out for a while it's pretty easy to bypass them at that point and keep pushing towards other targets with only a token force left to encircle whoever you trapped in Italy.

Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2018 around 02:34

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


Psychotic Weasel posted:

...Because the AI never sees fit to garrison the southern part of the country...

Also, me. But then I had Gibraltar and the Suez locked down, fleets owning the Med, and flocks of torpedo bombers overhead.

Then some magical bullshit force lands out of the mists of time or something, I dunno wtf.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007


It would be nice if sinking ships caused a stability/war support hit. If Japan or England loses its entire fleet they should really surrender faster...

Butch Banner
Dec 14, 2006
The pinnacle of masculitinity

Psychotic Weasel posted:

avoid invading through the Alps (like any sane commander)

Barcaing up the wrong tree there boy.

Butch Banner fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2018 around 13:18

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017



Arven posted:

It would be nice if sinking ships caused a stability/war support hit. If Japan or England loses its entire fleet they should really surrender faster...

well this is where games fail, the axis never planed on invading america but you are forced to in hoi

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.

Smellrose

HorrificExistence posted:

well this is where games fail, the axis never planed on invading america but you are forced to in hoi

In fairness, the Axis didn't plan for a lot of things they probably should have.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold



Wooper posted:

If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol.


Wooper posted:

in a historical way

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.

Smellrose


I think that's the joke.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Wooper posted:

If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol.

you mean by appearing to collapse and sacrificing the apparent leaders of the fascist movement while infiltrating both allies and soviets sufficiently to have a number of seemingly third tier ex-nazi nobodies installed as mayors and police chiefs and school treasurers all over central europe, eventually infecting the domestic intelligence agencies and then later still elements of the top levels of government of their former opponents, the dying superpowers?

I mean it would be impressive if HOI could model all that but on the other hand no thanks I play video games for escapism.

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



One thing the axis definitely shouldn't do is declare war on the USSR, then 2 months later (attempt to) invade the low countries. They can barely beat Belgium and the Netherlands if they try that, let alone France

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


Germany should just not be going into a land war on two fronts.

Psawhn
Jan 15, 2011


TsarZiedonis posted:

I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil).

I just checked, and the requirement under TfV is 5% world tension. I know I've gone through that focus before. Do you have on a mod or something that's messing with it?

TsarZiedonis
Apr 10, 2009


Nope, but I figured it out. Every time I reloaded the scenario, the provinces getting the factories in that focus changed. So, the provinces are determined randomly and in my first game I just got unlucky and it picked one that was actually impossible to develop.

Senor Dog
Jul 5, 2006



Grimey Drawer

pointsofdata posted:

One thing the axis definitely shouldn't do is declare war on the USSR, then 2 months later (attempt to) invade the low countries. They can barely beat Belgium and the Netherlands if they try that, let alone France

You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.

Smellrose

Senor Dog posted:

You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong.

That was complaining more about the AI being stupid than being weird.

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



Senor Dog posted:

You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong.

The problem isn't that the ai is doing weird stuff with focuses off, it's that there don't seem to be any checks that starting a war is even vaguely a good idea

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



Like eu4 is completely ahistorical and the ai doesn't do anything that stupid

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



The thing about the ahistorical AI is that it picks focuses more or less at random and doesn't really understand what they mean. I once saw an ahistorical France start down the communist path on their focus tree, then later choose the "ban communism" option for that event.

It'd be interesting if instead of just picking focuses randomly, AI nations instead had a few different preset paths they could follow, picked at random when the game starts. So you'd still get an essentially random game with lots of weird matchups happening, but the individual nations would at least be relatively sane in their decision making, at least as far as overall goals go.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2018 around 16:10

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017



I don't have a problem with countries fighting bad wars. I have an issue with the AI seemingly starting a war with no intention to win it since it is pretty clear the focus AI and tactical don't actually communicate. Like, if your gonna do the "declare war on USSR" maybe put a unit on the eastern front?

Another issue i ran into is since the at least the Death or Dishonor update some countries don't seem to understand alliances. For example Romania never seems to send troops to the eastern front if the germans start the war without them. They will just sit in Romania waiting for the soviets to come.

Jabshot
Dec 14, 2012


Is there a dedicated group that does multiplayer here? So far multiplayer is a toss up.

Either autists wasting 4+ hours of your life doing weird poo poo or 1000+ hour players who you pray carries your lovely 250k manpower minor faction long enough to have your units hold El Alamein die in North Africa.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



wheres the dlc?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

It's uh... one sec, where did I put it. Oh yeah! It's right here!

Enjoy.

Butch Banner
Dec 14, 2006
The pinnacle of masculitinity

Jabshot posted:

Is there a dedicated group that does multiplayer here? So far multiplayer is a toss up.

Either autists wasting 4+ hours of your life doing weird poo poo or 1000+ hour players who you pray carries your lovely 250k manpower minor faction long enough to have your units hold El Alamein die in North Africa.

Mapgoons in PGS, HOI games probably won't be up until the expansion hits though.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jabshot
Dec 14, 2012


Butch Banner posted:

Mapgoons in PGS, HOI games probably won't be up until the expansion hits though.

Thanks! That thread's name doesn't really indicate what game its for.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«358 »