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Gort
Aug 18, 2003


New Poland DD

quote:

Hello everyone! We are getting close to release now with preorder started a few days ago.
When we posponed HOI4 release it was mostly a question of getting more time for programmers to fix bugs, which left our scripters and artists a little underused. We figured we would put this to use on adding more flavor and fun for some minor. We have a lot of polish players, so focusing on Poland seemed to be a good idea. We werent sure if we would get this complete on time, and since we wanted to see if this kind of content packs would be well received we figured the best idea was to make it a separate DLC from the base game. Things worked out and it got ready on time, so we decided we should just release it to everyone for free (this isn't just for preorder, you will get it whenever you buy HOI4, forever).
If this is popular we hope this is the first of a series of packs we'll make as DLC in the future.

So, what does it contain?
Focus tree.
2D art for tanks & planes, complete with flavor names.
2D art for ministers, generals and country leaders.
3D art for infantry and some more well known tanks and planes
Some achievements & events.

Polish Focuses
We had two rules when we designed these, first that the Polish focus tree could not be worse than the neutral one and secondly we felt it could not depend on other people's focus trees.

We made sure that all the benefits you get from neutral tree are still there, but made sure that they carried a lot more Polish flavour. In the end we were able to do some really cool things with Poland. The industrialization efforts of Poland are mainly based a short term national investment called the Four Year Plan. Parts of this plan included heavy investment in infrastructure, activation of the Old Polish Industrial Region and developing the Central Industrial Region. We have taken inspiration from the plan and implemented its different parts as branches of the Polish focus tree.

We also focused on the fact that Poland was way ahead of other countries when it came to the decryption of the German Enigma machine. To reflect this, Poland gets special focuses that give them them bonuses in computing and decryption.

When it came to diplomacy we wanted to add additional options for a Polish player who is surrounded by threats. Although we cannot stop Germany and the USSR from trying to carve up Poland (those focuses are elsewhere), we did feel we could have Poland seek accommodation with either power. If you play your cards right this could also lead to an alliance with them (which blocks the “carve up” focuses for that side).

That isn't the most interesting path, however, as digging around in history we stumbled across a rather ambitious Polish plan, called the Between the Seas Concept. This was a proposed alliance of countries between the Baltic, the Black Sea and the Mediterranean (one suggestion including Italy, no less). The idea ultimately failed due to a whole number of reasons which are too many to mention.

Still, it’s an intriguing idea, and one we felt we could something really cool with. If Poland chooses to go for the Between the Seas Concept they can set up an entire faction of their own. Although the Balkans are rocky ground for Poland, the Baltic States was an option. Especially if Poland could make up with Lithuania after the rather unfortunate disagreement over the status of Wilno (or Vilnius, depending on which side you were on). So Poland has the option to carve out its own little mini-faction in the center of Europe. From there it is up to a skillful Polish player to grow their alliance and stand strong against both East and West.

Equipment and names
For the Polish DLC we wanted Poland to feel like a fully fleshed out country. This included the names of equipment, which is a challenge for a country that wasn't too active in the research department after 1939. We therefore had to resolve to our least favorite tool when it comes to historical research: making things up.

If we look at ships, the Polish Navy during World War II was just a few destroyers and submarines. However, it gave us something to work with, and so for the names of more advanced classes we tried to followed the same naming convention as the ones we did have information for. That leaves only a slightly small gap, namely every other ship class. Time to get creative!

For light cruisers we went for Polish cities. As an added bonuses the naming order is by population size in the 1930s, a fun little detail for Polish fans. When it came to Heavy Cruisers we chose rivers in Poland, those mighty arteries binding the country together. The first class is named after the Polish Victory against the USSR in 1920 at the Battle of the Niemen (or course Poland would want to name a ship class after that). The follow up classes then get names after other rivers in Poland.

That's it for the easy ones, it’s time to dig a little deeper. We needed two names for Battlecruisers, and ultimately settled on territories that Poland felt were rightfully hers. For the mighty Battleships we went big and named them after Polish Royal dynasties. We saved the biggest man of Polish interwar politics for the biggest ship, the first Polish Super Heavy Battleship Class is the Pilsudski class. We needed two, though, so we also went for another famous Polish Marshall, Poniatowski (the man I am sure unbiased Polish historians agree would have won the Battle of Borodino, if only Napoleon would have released the Imperial Guard to support his flank attack). This left just the carriers and for ´those we went for Polish Kings, starting with the savior of Vienna, Jan Sobieski.

Next week we will be talking about tutorials, wiki and stuff like that. On wednesday we got another episode of World War Wednesday where Daniel & SteelVolt take the helm of communist France, and also more modding stream so make sure to tune in!

Also, remember to preorder so I can beg Fredrik for a real office T-34!

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Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Here is another cool WW2 vid, first is a lecture about the context surrounding the battle of Kurst, second a comparison of production figures and philosophies by country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6xLMUifbxQ

Enjoy fucked around with this message at May 20, 2016 around 14:28

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


One thing that worries me about HoI4 is that you need "naval supremacy" to conduct a naval invasion.

In WW2 there were many invasions done with one side having an air force/navy. Like Guadalcanal where the IJN showed up. Or Port Moresby where the USN showed up. Etc...


WIll we be able to launch invasions despite the enemy having a navy or do we have to dismantle their entire fleet before we can even invade small islands in the outer pacific.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Phi230 posted:

One thing that worries me about HoI4 is that you need "naval supremacy" to conduct a naval invasion.

In WW2 there were many invasions done with one side having an air force/navy. Like Guadalcanal where the IJN showed up. Or Port Moresby where the USN showed up. Etc...


WIll we be able to launch invasions despite the enemy having a navy or do we have to dismantle their entire fleet before we can even invade small islands in the outer pacific.

Naval supremacy is a percentage. I think you need to be 75% in control of a sea zone to do a landing, so it's not like a single destroyer can meander past and prevent the whole thing.

TeenageArchipelago
Jul 23, 2013




yeah, I know that it is well written and all, I was just wondering if there was going to be any dlc for it. A few font packs would be nice

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



God, a Between the Seas faction Poland game sounds fun as hell, except I know I'll never, ever be good enough at HoI to pull it off.

edit: Also, I wonder what other nations might get minor DLCs like this. I feel like China probably deserves a whole expansion on a larger scale than this to flesh it out, so maybe Canada and Australia? The Netherlands? Spain?

Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at May 20, 2016 around 15:11

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


Empress Theonora posted:

God, a Between the Seas faction Poland game sounds fun as hell, except I know I'll never, ever be good enough at HoI to pull it off.

edit: Also, I wonder what other nations might get minor DLCs like this. I feel like China probably deserves a whole expansion on a larger scale than this to flesh it out, so maybe Canada and Australia? The Netherlands? Spain?

I fully expect China to be one of the first, and also stuff for Canada/Australia, both Spains, and probably Sweden (because it's Paradox, even if Sweden didn't fight in the war) coming within 6 months.

mackintosh
Aug 18, 2007


Semper Fidelis Poloniae



Oh dear.

Tuskin38
May 1, 2013

Have you seen these posts?
They're pretty popular on Reddit.


-ignore this post-

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that


Wait, why ? Is this controversial or something? This seems like a pretty good focus tree for a relatively minor power that has a chance - long though it may be - of becoming a real major player or kingmaker if played well. What's the problem here?

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.

I think its because they said they wanted this one to be paid DLC, and future ones will definitely be. People already have issues with Paradox's DLC policy.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

people are being stupid

Shark Sandwich
Sep 6, 2010

The review you had on "Shark Sandwich", which was merely a two word review, just said "Shit Sandwich".



Drone posted:

I fully expect China to be one of the first, and also stuff for Canada/Australia, both Spains, and probably Sweden (because it's Paradox, even if Sweden didn't fight in the war) coming within 6 months.

I'd be surprised if Hungary and Romania didn't get ones at some point. Maybe Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia too if they're doing Poland?

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011


I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits. If this will not be done (which I realize it won't), then I agree that the edited flag should be scrapped and a different historical flag should be substituted for everyone.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

mackintosh
Aug 18, 2007


Semper Fidelis Poloniae


Kaza42 posted:

Wait, why ? Is this controversial or something? This seems like a pretty good focus tree for a relatively minor power that has a chance - long though it may be - of becoming a real major player or kingmaker if played well. What's the problem here?

Intermarium (i.e. between the seas) has never been a very popular concept with our neighbours, mostly due to the fact that it always assumed that Poland would lead such a pan-slavic alliance. This idea was further bastardised by the far-right, which advocated for a rebirth of a Polish Empire stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea.

Also, the last thing you ever want to do is to name anything Polish after Polish historical figures. There will always be a large group convinced they were traitors.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


This isn't political correctness, it's Paradox - a business - making a business decision to avoid any potential legal trouble in one specific national market saving them time and money in the long run.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003



Buglord

Ghost of Mussolini posted:

I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits. If this will not be done (which I realize it won't), then I agree that the edited flag should be scrapped and a different historical flag should be substituted for everyone.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

Well yeah but Germany literally has a law against the swastika.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


If you want Nazi symbols so bad just downliad the day 1 DLC for ut Pdox is providing.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



it's a copy/paste from the official forums

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Empress Theonora posted:

it's a copy/paste from the official forums

Nazi grogs tricked me again

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011


If you have not been on the HoI4 forums I recommend it highly. If for nothing else than the fact that they have enabled the leader portraits as avatars. The amount of forum users who have chosen a forum avatar of a German general and post about the censorship of the game or Paradox's misleading practices is almost 100%

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



Ghost of Mussolini posted:

If you have not been on the HoI4 forums I recommend it highly. If for nothing else than the fact that they have enabled the leader portraits as avatars. The amount of forum users who have chosen a forum avatar of a German general and post about the censorship of the game or Paradox's misleading practices is almost 100%


My own personal discomfort notwithstanding, there's nothing wrong with somebody deciding to play as Germany if that's something they're okay with, since there are many different ways to engage with games about history, all of them valid.

If you're actually using a portrait of a Nazi general in full SS regalia as your avatar though you're probably a creep.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

mackintosh posted:

Intermarium (i.e. between the seas) has never been a very popular concept with our neighbours, mostly due to the fact that it always assumed that Poland would lead such a pan-slavic alliance. This idea was further bastardised by the far-right, which advocated for a rebirth of a Polish Empire stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea.

Also, the last thing you ever want to do is to name anything Polish after Polish historical figures. There will always be a large group convinced they were traitors.

Lebensraum wasn't really a popular idea with Germany's neighbors either, and I doubt the USA waging a worldwide colonial war with Britain is a widely supported idea either. Focus trees have room for both historical and ahistorical (and even completely implausible) ideas and paths to take, since it's more fun that way. The rebirth of a Polish Empire should absolutely be a thing supported by the game, much the same way that a fascist USA invading Mexico as a gateway to South America is.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


So I found this fantastic radio site that lets you pick a country and a decade and it'll take you through a playlist of popular music from the era. No idea how completely accurate it is, but it's going to be pretty great for HOI4 background music: http://radiooooo.com/

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


They should just set the German flag to a hardcoded "nazi punks gently caress off" album cover

Democrazy
Oct 16, 2008
HOLY SHIT AM I A PRETENTIOUS DOUCHEBAG OR WHAT?
AND NOW I'M OFF TO HARASS ASIAN WOMEN AT STARBUCKS WITH DERANGED HAIKU (PLEASE HOLD ME)


I hope supply is easier in this game. I know that it's important to have real supply limitations in areas like Africa and parts of South America, but there should be an arduous way to solve it. Invading South America and turning it against its Yankee masters owns.


Ghost of Mussolini posted:

I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits. If this will not be done (which I realize it won't), then I agree that the edited flag should be scrapped and a different historical flag should be substituted for everyone.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

My favorite part is that he calls himself a "civil war" historian, like he's the Shelby Foote of the PDox forums.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


"Civil War historian" on the Paradox forums tends to mean "owns some Confederate flag paraphernalia" and/or is someone who is 90% likely to refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


Ghost of Mussolini posted:

If you have not been on the HoI4 forums I recommend it highly. If for nothing else than the fact that they have enabled the leader portraits as avatars. The amount of forum users who have chosen a forum avatar of a German general and post about the censorship of the game or Paradox's misleading practices is almost 100%

Well played.

1337JiveTurkey
Feb 17, 2005



College Slice

Drone posted:

"Civil War historian" on the Paradox forums tends to mean "owns some Confederate flag paraphernalia" and/or is someone who is 90% likely to refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression.

Of course one of the mod ideas that seems to be getting the most community interest is one that adds in the CSA.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



1337JiveTurkey posted:

Of course one of the mod ideas that seems to be getting the most community interest is one that adds in the CSA.

On the bright side that opens the possibility for a US player to reenact Sherman's march with Sherman tanks, although that's probably not what the modders had in mind.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


1337JiveTurkey posted:

Of course one of the mod ideas that seems to be getting the most community interest is one that adds in the CSA.

Tbh i would love that so I could burn the south down again

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Drone posted:

Also yeah the dude who bought that red text is a pretty big idiot and probably could have given that :tenbux: to some charity for abused tanks.

Every day dozens of abused tanks have to be put to sleep for lack of repair facilities:

For just $10 a neglected Panther can have its final drive replaced, enabling it to enjoy life to the fullest for an almost 20km road march. Please donate today!

1337JiveTurkey
Feb 17, 2005



College Slice

Empress Theonora posted:

On the bright side that opens the possibility for a US player to reenact Sherman's march with Sherman tanks, although that's probably not what the modders had in mind.

I think they expect it to go the other way with some sort of Southern blitzkrieg strategy since both them and wehraboos are really into the whole underdogs who took on the world with superior strategy, willpower and genes while their opponents were idiotic butchers schtick.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Empress Theonora posted:

On the bright side that opens the possibility for a US player to reenact Sherman's march with Sherman tanks, although that's probably not what the modders had in mind.

You know how to mod right? Be first and create a mod where that is the point. Then watch the forum / workshop burns.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Hot drat, almost 100 posts in this thread since I last checked? I bet something really cool happened!


.... oh.


Fellblade posted:

Having Devs posting on the forums is great but it sure sucks when some random amateur historian thinks they know game development better than somebody who has been making games every day for years.

No, but see, you just don't get it. If they don't make tanks the best thing ever then that won't lead to research to give me gundams!!! Tanks are literally superior to every other form of warfare ever made and can only be made better by putting legs and wings on them, which is pretty obviously where Hitler was going before the war ended. The only reason those German tanks broke down invading Russia is because they didn't have ENOUGH wings and legs!!!! Any idiot can see this. Paradox should hire me for history consultation, obv.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Hey I am all for mechas in hoi 4. Not even being ironic.


But the thing is that tanks are a dead end, mechas are the future.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


Groogy you need to reinstate the hedgehog, I find it really hard to distinguish your posts now

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Groogy posted:

But the thing is that tanks are a dead end, mechas are the future.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an


This is no Sherman, boy! No Sherman!

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Airfoil
Sep 10, 2013

I'm a rocket man


ExtraNoise posted:

No, but see, you just don't get it. If they don't make tanks the best thing ever then that won't lead to research to give me gundams!!! Tanks are literally superior to every other form of warfare ever made and can only be made better by putting legs and wings on them, which is pretty obviously where Hitler was going before the war ended. The only reason those German tanks broke down invading Russia is because they didn't have ENOUGH wings and legs!!!! Any idiot can see this. Paradox should hire me for history consultation, obv.

Pfft. The Russians would just design mechas that run on unrefined crude and could be stripped down and reassembled in 15 mins by an illiterate farm boy.

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