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Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
How would you maintain a front line with all of those tiny areas anyway? Did units have a zone of control extending out a space or two? Was the unit count just quadrupled to compensate? The only HOI game I’ve played is 4, so it seems pretty mystifying.

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trapped mouse
May 25, 2008

by Azathoth
Does anyone know if the German AI is hardcoded to go to war over the Sudetenland if it isn't given to them? Or will they back down if they see enough countries will be joining in against them via the Little Entente?

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

trapped mouse posted:

Does anyone know if the German AI is hardcoded to go to war over the Sudetenland if it isn't given to them? Or will they back down if they see enough countries will be joining in against them via the Little Entente?
When going "Unite the Minor Democracies" focus path as the Netherlands, if you get everyone (including the Czechs) to join your faction, Germany will back down if you as the Dutch rally to the Czech's side or whatever it is. Therefore I assume its a strength thing to get Germany to back down and thus is not hardcoded.

Germany never backs down from Poland thumbing their noses at them when they do Danzig or War.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Pvt.Scott posted:

How would you maintain a front line with all of those tiny areas anyway? Did units have a zone of control extending out a space or two? Was the unit count just quadrupled to compensate? The only HOI game I’ve played is 4, so it seems pretty mystifying.

Nope same unit/province system as hoi3 and hoi4 but unit production was different as you just built whole divisions instead of equipment

trapped mouse
May 25, 2008

by Azathoth

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

When going "Unite the Minor Democracies" focus path as the Netherlands, if you get everyone (including the Czechs) to join your faction, Germany will back down if you as the Dutch rally to the Czech's side or whatever it is. Therefore I assume its a strength thing to get Germany to back down and thus is not hardcoded.

Germany never backs down from Poland thumbing their noses at them when they do Danzig or War.

Interesting! Trying to get a good strategy for a Democratic France playthrough. Even though it's pretty much the worst way to go, there are some surprising advantages to it.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

When going "Unite the Minor Democracies" focus path as the Netherlands, if you get everyone (including the Czechs) to join your faction, Germany will back down if you as the Dutch rally to the Czech's side or whatever it is. Therefore I assume its a strength thing to get Germany to back down and thus is not hardcoded.

Germany never backs down from Poland thumbing their noses at them when they do Danzig or War.

I actually had to declare on Germany the other day as Poland. I got us communist and the Soviets lined up on my border when Germany justified and then they never declared. I forced us to break MR treaty.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
I am doing a new game as Italy to test some infantry and naval strategies, and for the first time in maybe a few dozen play throughs the brits went Kings party Fascist and allied with Germany, pitting them against me. I was already trying for new Roman Empire so I just went with the new Romania/Czech/France alliance in going after Germany.

Shortly after, Comintern declared against Germany.

I took Tyrol and most of Austria, secured the med with my navy, and am now sweeping Africa and the Arabian peninsula from Great Britain and poo poo is looking good.

Not to mention all the colonies declared against GB. This is a pretty crazy game.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

punishedkissinger posted:

I actually had to declare on Germany the other day as Poland. I got us communist and the Soviets lined up on my border when Germany justified and then they never declared. I forced us to break MR treaty.
Oh, well, poo poo, maybe the math on the strength ratio is different for Poland than it is for Czechoslovakia when it comes to the German AI deciding to declare? I dont know if I have ever seen 'em not do it.


trapped mouse posted:

Interesting! Trying to get a good strategy for a Democratic France playthrough. Even though it's pretty much the worst way to go, there are some surprising advantages to it.
I have not tried Democratic France with their new focus tree but I bet it would be really really hard to get Germany to not declare on the Czechs as France since you start with so few Mils. If you find anything interesting be sure to let us know, I love doing bizarre alt-history stuff.

FeculentWizardTits
Aug 31, 2001

I played my first game as France the other day. Took the decisions to fortify the Alps and extend the Maginot line, then settled in to wait for the offensive that only sort of came. Germany lined up along my border but never once tried to attack, even along the northern parts where there was no river crossing or terrain penalties and they probably could've broken through.

The Italians, on the other hand, were all too happy to toss division after division at my forts in the Alps. Eventually the Germans were overcome with FOMO and began sending legions to die in the mountains. When I last checked, I'd killed 4,000,000 fascists without leaving my doorstep. Not the most exciting way to play, but pretty satisfying.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin

Heffer posted:

Getting more spies really helps. You need non-puppet faction members for that. As spy master you get one spy for every two countries.

I'm not sure the best path for that as USA. Probably release Hawaii and Puerto Rico for one.

nah son

Treaty of Reciprocal Relationships

also gently caress Japan i'm taking Mexico

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin
Does it matter where you start building the network? Like Tokyo vs somewhere else?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Does it matter where you start building the network? Like Tokyo vs somewhere else?

Not for the purposes of operations, but when fighting happens having a spy network covering the area will grant you bonuses there. (Thanks WhiskeyWhiskers, I was only considering peacetime)

Gort fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jun 3, 2020

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Does it matter where you start building the network? Like Tokyo vs somewhere else?

Yes. Spy network decreases planning and entrenchment bonuses for the enemy for the areas it's in. Other than that, no.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

new dev diary

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/hoi4-dev-diary-4th-anniversary.1395273/

important parts:

Allied Armor Pack
Tomorrow we also release the followup to last years Axis Armor Pack, this time for the allies. This includes 45 armored vehicles for USA, UK, France and Soviets. On top of this we also add in 32 tanks from the Colonel Edition for those nations also for a total of 77 :) This is one of the reasons that we stopped selling the Colonel Edition last month - it was making it messy to buy cosmetic packs and we didn't want to split stuff up further. To make sure previous colonel edition players don't feel like they get as much, and also because its been such a great year for HOI4, we will be giving the whole pack for free to all those who had the colonel edition. Enjoy!
(the observant players may remember that there is some ships in the colonel edition also, people who have that will keep them but they are not included in this armor pack. We will sort those boat boys out in the future).

Free!


So what are we up to now?
We have been wanting to shorten the time between content update for a while and are going to take a serious stab at it now. That means that we are currently working on two things at once in parallel actually. In the pipe we have 1.10 ‘Collie’ as well as 1.11 ‘Barbarossa’. That's about as much information as I can give you right now. We are not yet ready to start dev diaries on ‘Collie’ but look forward to it some time after summer vacation. We have some massively awesome stuff planned and I think you are all gonna like it (if people wanna see the roadmap, it was last updated in this dev diary).

Soviets, finally!

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Because I had to look it up:

Operation Collie was a British naval operation in World War II, from 5–11 July 1945. Its objectives were, firstly, naval bombardment and aerial strikes on Japanese positions in the Nicobar Islands, particularly on Nancowry Island; secondly, providing cover for minesweeping operations in advance of a possible invasion; and thirdly, making carrier raids on Japanese airfields in northern Sumatra. These measures were a prelude for an invasion, Operation Zipper, which was never carried out due to the Surrender of Japan.

Also the dev diary had patch notes in it:

quote:

################################################################
######## Hotfix 1.9.3 "Husky" ########
################################################################

##################################
# Balance
##################################
- decreased suppression value of SP-Art battalions
- decreased suppression value of SP-AA battalions
- decreased suppression value of SP-AT battalions
- decreased research cost on destroyer hulls
- decreased research cost on depth charge technologies
- increased research cost on 1940 and 1944 submarine hulls
- increased research cost on torpedo module upgrades
- decreased research cost of naval munitions upgrades for light and heavy guns
- decreased research cost of armor schemes
- increased the cost of initial radar tech, lowered cost on all other radar techs
- decreased IC cost of all ship heavy batteries
- increased damage of all heavy ship batteries
- increased piercing of all medium ship batteries
- increased damage of all medium ship batteries
- Carrier planes no longer take area coverage penalties on their targeted/ground missions
- Increased carrier hull surface detection base from 20 to 26
- Added a cooldown timer after naval transfers are engaged at sea and escape to avoid stun-locking issues with many small fleets. The cooldown depends on the screening efficiency of the defenders so a defended convoy will have a longer cooldown the better defended it is
- Added an extra speed boost to convoys retreat speed when screened
- Effective carrier plane advantage in naval combat now gives penalties to positioning for the other side
- Increased air-to-air damage factor in carrier battles from 5 to 6
- increase air attack targeting scoring for carriers to make them more likely targets for other carriers
- increased naval hit penalty from 10% to 20% in heavy rain
- reduced carrier traffic penalty from 100% to 80% in heavy rain
- Reduce heavy gun target signature from 90 to 80 and increased light gun target signature from 40 to 45 to make heavy guns a bit more versatile and light guns a bit slower at picking off screens
- Patrol convoy raiding and convoy escort missions now rely on local navy position for air superiority rather than average of air zones to stop high air superiority in a zone from saving the ships from spotting in another.


##################################
# Stability & Performance
##################################
- Fixed OOS related to asking an operative to resume their mission after the operation they are assigned to completes
- Fixed OOS linked to technologies not being properly reset between games
- Fixed OOS triggered by a country asking for manpower after a civil war
- Prevented crash when trying to respond to faction invite from a faction that no longer exists
- fixed a ctd that happens when a non-existing capitulated country checks for uncapitulation


##################################
# Modding
##################################
- Added play_song and scoped_play_song effects
- added on_war_relation_added on action (scope is attacker, from is defender)
- Made targeting weights for air-to-ship in naval combat moddable. See NAVAL_COMBAT_AIR_*_TARGET_SCORE defines.


##################################
# Bugfix
##################################
- Updated the forum link in main menu to match the new forum
- Bulgaria will no longer start with Flexible Navy focus completed in 1939

And discussion of the notes above:

quote:

Naval tech rebalance
It's best to check the changelog for details here, but our goal has been to make tech investments into more efficient submarines more expensive and sub countering and investments into capital ships cheaper.

Convoys and stun-locking
A very annoying strategy in multiple and sometimes in SP has been being able to essentially stun lock an enemies transports of troops in place at sea by lots of small naval engagements with submarines. Even if well screened they still need to wait to retreat and then would get caught again and again, sometimes taking months to get across the atlantic. To deal with this we have increased the retreat speed bonuses from being well screened and also implemented a cooldown system. This system will give transports a cooldown after being caught where they can not be re-spotted again. The length of it depends on the length of their path as well as how well screened they are. For an unscreened vessel they will be caught pretty quickly in more interceptions while a properly screened one can continue on until the invasion beach if its not too far.

Carriers and other naval changes
Carriers in the pacific really struggle with the large air zones and the weather penalties. It didn't make sense to us to apply the area size penalties to a mobile base with so few planes, so now any mission targeting a specific location (port strike, CAS etc) for planes stationed on a carrier will not have this penalty.

On top of this it didn't make sense to have carriers planes suffer a 100% penalty from bad weather when land based ones had a much smaller one. While I doubt any planes could take off during a really bad storm, it makes little sense when we only really have one level of weather here to make it so brutal, so this penalty has been reduced to 80%. We also felt that if the weather is truly this bad guns really should be struggling more than they do as well as doubled that penalty to 20% to close the gap.

Carriers now also help the fleet overall. The side with the carrier plane advantage in the battle will penalize positioning of the other side, similar a bit in spirit to the effects of air superiority on land. We also made light guns a bit worse and buffed targeting and power of bigger guns to try and strengthen mixed fleets. We have also increased the base detection abilities of carriers a bit to better model how important they were for spotting enemies at sea.

Another thing of note is that we have fixed an annoying interaction between air superiority and naval spotting. Because air superiority applies on average on the zones a task force was operating you could shield them with planes in a zone they were not even in, which might be somewhere your enemy couldn't even reach and contest. Now it will be looking at the specific area they are in instead.

Out Of Syncs
Telemetry was telling us that the vast majority of out of syncs were happening in the first half of 1936, and for weeks we simply could not reproduce this inhouse, but recently we had a breakthrough. We found some data related to technologies that was not properly reset when entering a new game and this is hopefully the core reason for this. We will be looking at telemetry data to hopefully see the OOS frequency take a nose dive, because this stuff is truly hard for us to test fully ourselves, but we are optimistic!

Patch is coming tomorrow.

Gort fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jun 3, 2020

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
gently caress yeah, cheaper destroyer research! My Chinese surface fleet will now be ready by July 1937 for sure.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
After really investing in an escort fleet and seeing how even small nations with lovely navies can benefit from a dozen sub killer escorts for trade:

Never Not Build Destroyers..

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin
Are y'all just putting one ASW on those destroyers or two?

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
One. It can be passive, too. In early war just having a passive sonar and depth charges will AT LEAST get opposing subs to gently caress off.

If I make a swiss army dd then I use the other slot for radar so it can serve as a scout.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin
wait wtf do you mean passive


edit: i meant anti-submarine weapon -- i.e. the depth charges

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer
Nice, free tanks and Soviet content coming soon-ish!

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin
I still don't understand what he means by passive depth charges?



also lol if you don't build a level 10 air base in Nevada and make it have priority on the newest designs when you play as the U.S.

and base ur strategic bombers in Missouri initially

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

I still don't understand what he means by passive depth charges?



also lol if you don't build a level 10 air base in Nevada and make it have priority on the newest designs when you play as the U.S.

and base ur strategic bombers in Missouri initially

What's the air base for?

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin

VostokProgram posted:

What's the air base for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdjf4lMmiiI

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Are y'all just putting one ASW on those destroyers or two?

I read this as ASDIC sorry.

Yes, one depth charge, but also PASSIVE sonar, the latter being very important as a first upgrade for most countries’ destroyers since a majority have none.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017

i feel like i hosed up getting all the DLC for this. now i basically have to relearn half of the systems.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019

by vyelkin

dialhforhero posted:

I read this as ASDIC sorry.

Yes, one depth charge, but also PASSIVE sonar, the latter being very important as a first upgrade for most countries’ destroyers since a majority have none.

yea last game I made it all the way to 1945 before realizing most of my ships are still pieces of poo poo because I didn't upgrade them to have radars or sonars or whatev.

Do y'all put fire control mechanisms on ALL ships or just the capitals? I want all the good meta suggestions.


The only thing that has pissed me off about La Resistance so far is the fact that your spy has to rebuild the goddamn network every time he does something else if you assign him to a "brief" job.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I don't actually build capital ships, just light cruisers. Give 'em a torpedo each and the rest is light cruiser batteries. They'll eat the opposing screens alive, then torpedo the capital ships. They also don't use a ton of fuel so you can have a sizeable force of them out patrolling.

The real meta to naval warfare is to just put a few hundred decent naval bombers somewhere the enemy has ships, and watch the kills roll in.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Do y'all put fire control mechanisms on ALL ships or just the capitals? I want all the good meta suggestions.

They benefit ships with more guns. So fire control on torpedo boats isn't worth the extra production, but if you have something with every slot filled with guns, it will be much more significant.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
i thought fire control was a trap because of its giant reliability penalty

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Raskolnikov38 posted:

i thought fire control was a trap because of its giant reliability penalty

As far as I understand, it affects critical hit chance. So in theory it makes your ships more vulnerable, but the % chance can be offset by techs. I don't think getting more than 100% helps.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
I would too but idk how important reliability is for ships. Critical damage chance? What else?

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

SHISHKABOB posted:

I would too but idk how important reliability is for ships. Critical damage chance? What else?

As far as I know, that's it. Maybe accidents when training?

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
I put fire controls pretty much only on BBs as it is a waste otherwise.

I could see WHY you would want to put it on a CA but I use CAs purely as raiders (sometimes I micro them to reinforce a big fukken battle but that is more rare) so it is overkill.

I also DO research techs like it it ahead of time before the hull though (as with guns and armor) because if you research a tech at or below the hull level it typically populates every slot except utility and radar with its corresponding module at (if researched) or below the hull tech (if not researched) level when it is researched. This saves XP.

dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 5, 2020

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

I still don't understand what he means by passive depth charges?



also lol if you don't build a level 10 air base in Nevada and make it have priority on the newest designs when you play as the U.S.

and base ur strategic bombers in Missouri initially

If I play America and get their bomber range increase, I park my super-long range (lvl 5 range upgrade) jet bombers in Whiteman AFB. It’s kinda like having B-2s. I miss hearing them take off and then return from committing war crimes.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Yes. Spy network decreases planning and entrenchment bonuses for the enemy for the areas it's in. Other than that, no.

This explains why I had a front where planning bonuses weren’t building up the other day. I thought it was a bug or something. Must have reduced my max planning to 0% or something.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017

Is Intel even worth investing in as Russia? I was working really hard to get Poland to turn communist or at least accept an NAP with me but it barely made a difference. Am I using my agents wrong?

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

punishedkissinger posted:

Is Intel even worth investing in as Russia? I was working really hard to get Poland to turn communist or at least accept an NAP with me but it barely made a difference. Am I using my agents wrong?

For Poland I’d recommend preparing a collaboration government ahead of time, using propaganda to lower their stability and war support, then rolling over them. Once compliance is at 80%, you can puppet them and there you go, Commie Poland. This would let you fight a lightning-fast invasion and avoid major bloodshed.

Poland might have had a reformer on staff, or some focus going that was resisting your influence. You might have been able to force them to have a civil war by setting up a coup or something. I haven’t played Poland in years, though.

As an extreme example, I think you can lower France’s surrender limit to ~0% by maxing out the collaboration preparation with repeated missions. As soon as you set boots on their soil they hand you the country. LOL

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
Last Soviet game I played my spy team was numerous and very good. Always have spies and always upgrade at least your home defense.

Especially since you can park one on Japan, one on Germany, and mooch off of France or Great Britain techs at the very least.

When you add the Baltic states to Comintern and declare spymaster you get like 2/3 more I think and can really do a lot of ops.

dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 5, 2020

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WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

punishedkissinger posted:

Is Intel even worth investing in as Russia? I was working really hard to get Poland to turn communist or at least accept an NAP with me but it barely made a difference. Am I using my agents wrong?

You can also pretty easily get resistance in Poland above 75 in German occupied areas which causes constant attrition, greatly slows down troop movement and fucks their supplies. If you accept the MR pact you'll have a short enough frontline that the entire Nazi army will get completely wrecked.

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