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dtkozl
Dec 17, 2001

ultima ratio regum

Mortabis posted:

Even when I lived in Nashville I never heard it called that. I've never heard it called that in Richmond for christ's sake. My parents never heard it called that when they lived in Birmingham, Alabama in the '80s. Who actually calls it that? Other than cranks on the internet.

My US History teacher in 11th grade, in 1998, in Danville, VA. Also the textbook we used which was published when Nixon had just won the presidency.

The "irony" is the school was over 50% black.

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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

ASK ME HOW TO CUT PINEAPPLE LIKE A BADASS


Zaodai posted:

I've honestly never heard anybody call it the War of Northern Aggression outside the context of "so and so probably calls it that because they're a crazy hick!".

I always preferred "The Late Unpleasantness."

Ghetto Prince posted:

They didn't try arming slaves until very late in the war, a month after the capital had been captured and burned. They never saw combat and every slave and officer involved was convinced they were going to be shot in the back if they did. Unsurprisingly, the CSA was still petty enough to decree that any slave conscripted would be considered property and returned at the end of the war.

Yup. Bruce Levine wrote a whole book on the topic (same conclusion; immediately rejected, ultimately too little too late and two weeks before Appomattox):
http://www.amazon.com/Confederate-E...g/dp/0195315863

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010

Midgets be packing some Space-Age shit!



Nitrousoxide posted:

But if you just didn't spend that money you'd have that money when the content came out and you'd be able to acertain if it was garbage?

It's $50 worth of DLC according to Paradox themselves. ( not counting the tank packs, the two "Expansions" they want to release that are presumably $25ish a piece and thus quite large ).

With the deal, you can get it for $17 along with the game.

Who the gently caress cares if it's good. It'll be 2020 before those DLC packs go on sale combined to $17 even with Paradox's love of sales. At a certain point that's such a good price unless the game is terrible it's worth it. Even if only one is good, and the other is garbage, you are still getting both for the price that one would be on sale 6 months after it came out.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




Rookersh posted:

It's $50 worth of DLC according to Paradox themselves. ( not counting the tank packs, the two "Expansions" they want to release that are presumably $25ish a piece and thus quite large ).

With the deal, you can get it for $17 along with the game.

Who the gently caress cares if it's good. It'll be 2020 before those DLC packs go on sale combined to $17 even with Paradox's love of sales. At a certain point that's such a good price unless the game is terrible it's worth it. Even if only one is good, and the other is garbage, you are still getting both for the price that one would be on sale 6 months after it came out.

You have literally no idea what those dlcs are supposed to be.

They could be a the loving sounds of brazil and a unit pack for Tibet. Or they could be terrible ideas that make the game worse.

Gay Horney
Feb 9, 2013

I got so much love I don't know where to put it

it is a gamble. No need to act bewildered that some people chose to roll the dice.

TeenageArchipelago
Jul 23, 2013



Sharzak posted:

it is a gamble. No need to act bewildered that some people chose to roll the dice.

gently caress yeah gotta live life to the edge

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



the heart of gambling is a meaningless death

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



Nitrousoxide posted:

You have literally no idea what those dlcs are supposed to be.

They could be a the loving sounds of brazil and a unit pack for Tibet. Or they could be terrible ideas that make the game worse.

I mean I'm still extremely dubious about preordering things without even knowing anything about them, but they've said that the pass is for full-scale expansions, not just content packs.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010

Midgets be packing some Space-Age shit!



Nitrousoxide posted:

You have literally no idea what those dlcs are supposed to be.

They could be a the loving sounds of brazil and a unit pack for Tibet. Or they could be terrible ideas that make the game worse.

Sure let's go there.

Paradox makes three DLC types. $2-$5 packs that add music/units, $10 packs which add new cultures/maybe religions, and $15 packs which add more content/landmasses/ways of playing. They used to offer $20 Expansion Passes for EU3 and older games which offered extreme overhauls to regions of the map that weren't in the base game/shown as well in the base game, but that hasn't really been seen since.

The description for the Expansion Pass says that it adds

"Expansion Pass: Includes the first 2 expansions and its related content, to an estimated value of $49.99"

So, we have two expansions for an estimated value of $50. That's roughly $25 per expansion.

Oh wait, "and it's related content". There's the unit packs/music that comes with them. So if we look at how Paradox does DLC, we can make some quick guesses.

Either it's two $15 DLC packs plus $5 worth of unit packs/music ( no wait, that doesn't actually add up to $50, only $40, so hmm ), or they are going back to the old model of DLC for HoI4, and we'll get two $20 sized expansions plus their unit packs/music.

Either way, we get it for.....$17. Which is either $2 more then a single pack if they both are $15 packs, or $3 less then the cost of a single pack if they are $20 expansions.

At that money rate, we can make some quick guesses about how lovely this gamble is. If HoI4 is an outright embarrassment of a game, and utterly terrible, I'm out money. Bummer. But I'd be out most of that money anyway by buying the game. If both DLC are garbage, then I hosed up and lost....$17. Whatever, that's not a huge loss ( it's $2 more then it'd have cost me to buy the DLC when it comes out on day one, which I'd have done anyway ), and I'll learn my lesson for future Paradox games. If even one DLC is good though, the worst I'll lose is $2, which is nothing. However if both DLC are good ( very likely, Paradox DLC is at worst something you want to buy just so the AI has more tools ), I'm getting ( bare minimum, if I only care about content ) $30 worth of content DLC for $17, which saves me $13.

And that's if I operate under the assumption they are sticking to their guns and doing $15 DLC like they've been doing in modern times, rather then $20 DLC again. If they go back to $20 DLC, the scales tip even further towards my favor.

Basically, there are four outcomes here.

Outcome A is the game is bad and I lost all my money. Worst scenario, none of us win.

Outcome B is the game is good, but both DLC are bad. This is a bad scenario for me.

Outcome C is the game is good, but only one DLC is good. We break even, we both spend $15ish to get that DLC.

Outcome D is the game is good, both DLC are good. I win by getting them both for the price of one. Good deal.

Hell, let's throw in Outcome E, and say game is good, both DLC are good and $20, in which case ding ding ding, I'm the best winner.

With only two bad options, one break even, and two potential good options, I'd say that's a pretty loving good gamble. ( especially if I wait a week after the game releases to gauge how good it is. Then it becomes bad/break even/good/good. )

And this is now probably the spergiest thing I've ever written down. Lets go back to talking about WW2.

Rookersh fucked around with this message at May 22, 2016 around 01:40

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


You sure are invested in this dlc business.

blackmongoose
Mar 31, 2011

DARK INFERNO ROOK!


I don't care about the argument, but I would like to know where I can get the Field Marshal edition for $47, because that might push me over the edge into pre ordering it

dtkozl
Dec 17, 2001

ultima ratio regum

Drone posted:

So I found this fantastic radio site that lets you pick a country and a decade and it'll take you through a playlist of popular music from the era. No idea how completely accurate it is, but it's going to be pretty great for HOI4 background music: http://radiooooo.com/

This is really cool thanks. Great for my silent hunter games as well.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012



Sharzak posted:

it is a gamble. No need to act bewildered that some people chose to roll the dice.

i'm not sure I trust goons when it comes to this sort of gambling.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



Rookersh posted:

Sure let's go there.

Paradox makes three DLC types. $2-$5 packs that add music/units, $10 packs which add new cultures/maybe religions, and $15 packs which add more content/landmasses/ways of playing. They used to offer $20 Expansion Passes for EU3 and older games which offered extreme overhauls to regions of the map that weren't in the base game/shown as well in the base game, but that hasn't really been seen since.

The description for the Expansion Pass says that it adds

"Expansion Pass: Includes the first 2 expansions and its related content, to an estimated value of $49.99"

So, we have two expansions for an estimated value of $50. That's roughly $25 per expansion.

Oh wait, "and it's related content". There's the unit packs/music that comes with them. So if we look at how Paradox does DLC, we can make some quick guesses.

Either it's two $15 DLC packs plus $5 worth of unit packs/music ( no wait, that doesn't actually add up to $50, only $40, so hmm ), or they are going back to the old model of DLC for HoI4, and we'll get two $20 sized expansions plus their unit packs/music.

Either way, we get it for.....$17. Which is either $2 more then a single pack if they both are $15 packs, or $3 less then the cost of a single pack if they are $20 expansions.

At that money rate, we can make some quick guesses about how lovely this gamble is. If HoI4 is an outright embarrassment of a game, and utterly terrible, I'm out money. Bummer. But I'd be out most of that money anyway by buying the game. If both DLC are garbage, then I hosed up and lost....$17. Whatever, that's not a huge loss ( it's $2 more then it'd have cost me to buy the DLC when it comes out on day one, which I'd have done anyway ), and I'll learn my lesson for future Paradox games. If even one DLC is good though, the worst I'll lose is $2, which is nothing. However if both DLC are good ( very likely, Paradox DLC is at worst something you want to buy just so the AI has more tools ), I'm getting ( bare minimum, if I only care about content ) $30 worth of content DLC for $17, which saves me $13.

And that's if I operate under the assumption they are sticking to their guns and doing $15 DLC like they've been doing in modern times, rather then $20 DLC again. If they go back to $20 DLC, the scales tip even further towards my favor.

Basically, there are four outcomes here.

Outcome A is the game is bad and I lost all my money. Worst scenario, none of us win.

Outcome B is the game is good, but both DLC are bad. This is a bad scenario for me.

Outcome C is the game is good, but only one DLC is good. We break even, we both spend $15ish to get that DLC.

Outcome D is the game is good, both DLC are good. I win by getting them both for the price of one. Good deal.

Hell, let's throw in Outcome E, and say game is good, both DLC are good and $20, in which case ding ding ding, I'm the best winner.

With only two bad options, one break even, and two potential good options, I'd say that's a pretty loving good gamble. ( especially if I wait a week after the game releases to gauge how good it is. Then it becomes bad/break even/good/good. )

And this is now probably the spergiest thing I've ever written down. Lets go back to talking about WW2.

this is no good.

Crash74
May 11, 2009


With the gmg discount its cheaper than the Stellaris gold pre order with the an actual incentive of having a season pass instead of a 20 dollar forums icon. I hope its not hoi 3 again.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

I donno, last time turned out all right in the end:

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

Psychotic Weasel posted:

I donno, last time turned out all right in the end:


Mods please change this poster's name to Psychotic Wastrel.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012



Rookersh posted:

Sure let's go there.

Paradox makes three DLC types. $2-$5 packs that add music/units, $10 packs which add new cultures/maybe religions, and $15 packs which add more content/landmasses/ways of playing. They used to offer $20 Expansion Passes for EU3 and older games which offered extreme overhauls to regions of the map that weren't in the base game/shown as well in the base game, but that hasn't really been seen since.

The description for the Expansion Pass says that it adds

"Expansion Pass: Includes the first 2 expansions and its related content, to an estimated value of $49.99"

So, we have two expansions for an estimated value of $50. That's roughly $25 per expansion.

Oh wait, "and it's related content". There's the unit packs/music that comes with them. So if we look at how Paradox does DLC, we can make some quick guesses.

Either it's two $15 DLC packs plus $5 worth of unit packs/music ( no wait, that doesn't actually add up to $50, only $40, so hmm ), or they are going back to the old model of DLC for HoI4, and we'll get two $20 sized expansions plus their unit packs/music.

Either way, we get it for.....$17. Which is either $2 more then a single pack if they both are $15 packs, or $3 less then the cost of a single pack if they are $20 expansions.

At that money rate, we can make some quick guesses about how lovely this gamble is. If HoI4 is an outright embarrassment of a game, and utterly terrible, I'm out money. Bummer. But I'd be out most of that money anyway by buying the game. If both DLC are garbage, then I hosed up and lost....$17. Whatever, that's not a huge loss ( it's $2 more then it'd have cost me to buy the DLC when it comes out on day one, which I'd have done anyway ), and I'll learn my lesson for future Paradox games. If even one DLC is good though, the worst I'll lose is $2, which is nothing. However if both DLC are good ( very likely, Paradox DLC is at worst something you want to buy just so the AI has more tools ), I'm getting ( bare minimum, if I only care about content ) $30 worth of content DLC for $17, which saves me $13.

And that's if I operate under the assumption they are sticking to their guns and doing $15 DLC like they've been doing in modern times, rather then $20 DLC again. If they go back to $20 DLC, the scales tip even further towards my favor.

Basically, there are four outcomes here.

Outcome A is the game is bad and I lost all my money. Worst scenario, none of us win.

Outcome B is the game is good, but both DLC are bad. This is a bad scenario for me.

Outcome C is the game is good, but only one DLC is good. We break even, we both spend $15ish to get that DLC.

Outcome D is the game is good, both DLC are good. I win by getting them both for the price of one. Good deal.

Hell, let's throw in Outcome E, and say game is good, both DLC are good and $20, in which case ding ding ding, I'm the best winner.

With only two bad options, one break even, and two potential good options, I'd say that's a pretty loving good gamble. ( especially if I wait a week after the game releases to gauge how good it is. Then it becomes bad/break even/good/good. )

And this is now probably the spergiest thing I've ever written down. Lets go back to talking about WW2.

lmao

Triggerhappypilot
Nov 8, 2009

Quas quia Pygmalion aevum per crimen agentis viderat, offensus vitiis, quae plurima menti femineae natura dedit, sine coniuge caelebs vivebat thalamique diu consorte carebat. niveum mira feliciter arte sculpsit ebur formamque dedit, qua femina nasci nulla potest, operisque sui concepit amorem.


I wonder how viable South American nations are going to be in the vanilla game. You have some interesting possibilities because you have access to a lot of resources (like Venezuelan oil), but your starting population and infrastructure will be worse than even what Hungary had in the WWW stream unless you're Brazil or Argentina.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011



Rookersh posted:

And this is now probably the spergiest thing I've ever written down.

yeah

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an


Argentina has no special events or flavor until the very end of the game where you get a popup asking "ACCEPT NAZIS, YES/DOUBLE YES?"

Triggerhappypilot
Nov 8, 2009

Quas quia Pygmalion aevum per crimen agentis viderat, offensus vitiis, quae plurima menti femineae natura dedit, sine coniuge caelebs vivebat thalamique diu consorte carebat. niveum mira feliciter arte sculpsit ebur formamque dedit, qua femina nasci nulla potest, operisque sui concepit amorem.


Funky Valentine posted:

Argentina has no special events or flavor until the very end of the game where you get a popup asking "ACCEPT NAZIS, YES/DOUBLE YES?"

Peru gets a special event where you get to invade Ecuador and then keep squabbling over the border for the next 50 years.

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011


Peronism in this game

Trump
Jul 16, 2003

Cute

Soooo, what's the best version of HoI2 to buy? I played some vanilla and Arsenal of Democracy? Maybe some Doomsday?

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011


Trump posted:

Soooo, what's the best version of HoI2 to buy? I played some vanilla and Arsenal of Democracy? Maybe some Doomsday?

Darkest Hour.

Gimmick Account
Dec 18, 2002


I still like Arsenal of Democracy best. Hopefully a few of its features eventually find their way into Hearts of Iron 4.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


Definitely Darkest Hour. And it has the virtue of being where the Kaiserreich mod lives, which is almost better than the vanilla game itself.

1337JiveTurkey
Feb 17, 2005



College Slice

Gimmick Account posted:

I still like Arsenal of Democracy best. Hopefully a few of its features eventually find their way into Hearts of Iron 4.

If they go for features from previous games, I hope they go big: Military and political leaders as CK2 nobility.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


What do ya'll intend to play first after all the pre-order nerds say whether or not it's good or stellaris'd again?

I'm thinking France, pretty quick and easy to figure things out.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Gamerofthegame posted:

whether or not it's good or stellaris'd again?

It will be Stellaris'd. But that's okay, it's still going to be a great game.

I'm going to play as the US during my first game so I can chant U! S! A! over and over while I steamroll Shermans across Germany. As was historically accurate.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I tgink HoI4 has its poo poo together.

But yea USA for learning since its like impossible to lose

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


I'm waffling between UK, France, and Italy.

Jeoh
Jul 20, 2010



I'm going Maximum Hitler.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Germany generally is the best learning country since nobody will fight you until you're ready for them, and you have an easy progression of wars in Poland -> France -> Russia.

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

I'm torn between Germany or conquering the Americas as the US. That dev diary made me really want to play Poland once I get the hang of the game though. They're basically to HoI what the Byzantine Empire is to EU.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

I intend to play as the US first, as I usually do, and conquer Europe and Asia myself for the new American Empire. Maybe with the new National Focus mechanism you can kick the Monroe Doctrine up a notch and make the Americas whole.

Not sure how new-player-friendly the US may be this time around as it looks like the devs have gone to great lengths to make sure their hands are tied while the rest of the world gets its poo poo together. As someone mentioned earlier, Germany is probably the best to play as when you're new; they pretty much decide when the dance begins. But again with the new national focus system a lot of other nations can act unpredictably now and may start the party without you.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

You can always set things for historical focuses, for which I am very grateful.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.

Gamerofthegame posted:

What do ya'll intend to play first after all the pre-order nerds say whether or not it's good or stellaris'd again?

I'm thinking France, pretty quick and easy to figure things out.

I'm terrified to play France. Interwar France and the Battle of France are of particular interest to me, but in HoI 3, even HPP or BIce, surviving into 1941 breaks the game.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Playing as France in HOI4 is ton of fun. Put your trust in the Chasseurs Alpins! Viva la France!

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Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

Congrats on pissing off some diva goon into wasting Groogy.

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