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Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

New TNO patch out, the 'Cold Southern Springs' mod is integrated which means 5 years of Brazil content.

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010


Cantorsdust posted:


I've not played the great war mod so I can't help you there. I can say HOI4 Kaiserreich is pretty good, and focus trees work well for it compared to HOI2 Kaiserreich events!

Hmm...I like Kaiserreich, but I'm more interested in the real deal. The Great War is fascinating. A cultural watershed and frankly a much more interesting military conflict. Sure it didn't have the fancy tanks and planes, but it was just so evenly balanced. Either side could have won half dozen different ways before 1918 rolled around if they'd just done something different. WWII on the other hand was pretty much fated to go the way it did. You really have to get into some unlikely scenarios for the Axis to even have a chance.

The Bramble
Mar 16, 2004



I have played about 100 hours of HOI4 and only 10 of them were in the base game itself. Instead I've been hitting up the Old World Blues mod, a Fallout-themed total conversion. It models the western US and Mexico around the time of the events in Fallout: New Vegas. This screenshot is from the end of my Legion campaign after I finally managed to takeout the New California Republic and the Western Brotherhood of Steel. One of my favorite things about this mod is how well-written it is. It's clear the creators are experts on Fallout lore, but the stuff they need to make up they do a really good job with. Definitely give it a shot if you are looking for something different, and like to pretend the East Coast games Bethesda made didn't really happen!

Cynic Jester
Apr 11, 2009

Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky


The Bramble posted:

I have played about 100 hours of HOI4 and only 10 of them were in the base game itself. Instead I've been hitting up the Old World Blues mod, a Fallout-themed total conversion. It models the western US and Mexico around the time of the events in Fallout: New Vegas. This screenshot is from the end of my Legion campaign after I finally managed to takeout the New California Republic and the Western Brotherhood of Steel. One of my favorite things about this mod is how well-written it is. It's clear the creators are experts on Fallout lore, but the stuff they need to make up they do a really good job with. Definitely give it a shot if you are looking for something different, and like to pretend the East Coast games Bethesda made didn't really happen!

I have 0 hours of vanilla HoI4. And 430 hours of HoI4 split roughly half and half between OWB and Kaiserreich but that's mainly because Kaiserreich came out first. OWB is mostly awesome (river crossings and the naval side are both kind of eh),

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009







Modding question: I know it's possible to have a country's focus screen change disappear and become something completely new, but is it possible to do that partially?

Like, have the political tree go away and be replaced but keep the military tree, progress and all?

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



I know that's possible. I'm not sure how, as I only play mods and don't make them, but TNO and EaW do it a lot.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003


allow_branch, like the base game uses to hide dlc trees, maybe? the checks are normally only done at load but can be called with mark_focus_tree_layout_dirty.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Tno does it all the time

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

Does Kaiserreich rebalance the combat system in a way that changes the best/basic layout of divisions? Or should I be designing divisions as if it was vanilla?

really queer Christmas
Apr 22, 2014

Have you heard the good word?


CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Does Kaiserreich rebalance the combat system in a way that changes the best/basic layout of divisions? Or should I be designing divisions as if it was vanilla?

It's vanilla in every way except for the navys.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Pretty sure the combat system is hardcoded, at most mods like OWB and EaW can mix it up by putting down country modifiers or, to a lesser extent, new overboard unit types. Nothing subtle, anyway.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Stairmaster posted:

Tno does it all the time

It used to cancel my focus every time it happened which was a gigantic pain when playing as Germany, it seems to be fixed now.

The new TNO update owns, by the way.

Whizzing Wizard
Nov 3, 2005

Wrrroavr




Charlz Guybon posted:

Hmm...I like Kaiserreich, but I'm more interested in the real deal. The Great War is fascinating. A cultural watershed and frankly a much more interesting military conflict. Sure it didn't have the fancy tanks and planes, but it was just so evenly balanced. Either side could have won half dozen different ways before 1918 rolled around if they'd just done something different. WWII on the other hand was pretty much fated to go the way it did. You really have to get into some unlikely scenarios for the Axis to even have a chance.

It's not very suited for the HoI4 engine though where it's all about wars of movement and encirclements. A real WW1 game would have to somehow figure out how to make mostly static warfare interesting. You'd need to figure out some gameplay mechanics for "the big push" that was so important to the strategy in that war.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


HoI4 seems quite bad at representing poorly-equipped infantry warfare. Early game stuff in China, it's quite possible for division-on-division fighting over a period of weeks to result in no casualties due to the mismatch between the attack and defense values of infantry weapons.

You can say a lot of things about the effectiveness of warfare in China between 1936 and 1945, but "low casualties" is not one of them.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


Whizzing Wizard posted:

It's not very suited for the HoI4 engine though where it's all about wars of movement and encirclements. A real WW1 game would have to somehow figure out how to make mostly static warfare interesting. You'd need to figure out some gameplay mechanics for "the big push" that was so important to the strategy in that war.

The Eastern front in world war 1 was not static at all.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Heck, even the Western front was terrifyingly non-static in the early war

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012




I suppose you'd want a situation where your ultimate goal in fighting a war is to drive your opponent into economic collapse before he can do the same to you, while actually winning battles and taking territory is only of secondary importance.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Gort posted:

HoI4 seems quite bad at representing poorly-equipped infantry warfare. Early game stuff in China, it's quite possible for division-on-division fighting over a period of weeks to result in no casualties due to the mismatch between the attack and defense values of infantry weapons.

You can say a lot of things about the effectiveness of warfare in China between 1936 and 1945, but "low casualties" is not one of them.

you can simulate this by the force attack/desperate defense or whatever command stuff, but yea

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Gamerofthegame posted:

you can simulate this by the force attack/desperate defense or whatever command stuff, but yea

China should probably get a deep discount on last stand like Japan does.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Gamerofthegame posted:

you can simulate this by the force attack/desperate defense or whatever command stuff, but yea

Those commands always felt like enormous traps to me. Like, I can afford manpower, but I absolutely cannot afford to throw equipment away. When I see the AI use them it feels like a free win.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007


We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold






]


I like using force attack to kick off offensives because of the bonuses. last stand Iíve only ever used to save retreating stacks from being overrun

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Gort posted:

Those commands always felt like enormous traps to me. Like, I can afford manpower, but I absolutely cannot afford to throw equipment away. When I see the AI use them it feels like a free win.

Yeah, but on the defensive China can deploy 10-20% equipment divisions and then just hit last stand. It would cost a lot of manpower, but not much in terms of equipment.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Dramicus posted:

Yeah, but on the defensive China can deploy 10-20% equipment divisions and then just hit last stand. It would cost a lot of manpower, but not much in terms of equipment.

what would it actually accomplish, though

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Gort posted:

what would it actually accomplish, though

Well, not much against a human player, but it can blunt AI offensives until they reach their "give up" threshold and rebuild for a few months.

Grevlek
Jan 10, 2004

go cow go

So I have not played this game in a while, and I'm getting stopped as Germany, on Normal.

Game one of trying to play again, mostly focused on industrial build up. The Czechs refused to give up the Sudetenland, I couldn't invade them from Austria, and the French started to move into the Ruhr.

Game two, prepared better by mixing military and industry build up. Prepared for war with the Czechs, but they gave up the border. The Poles were next, and they refused to give up the corridor. I had 48 divisions on their western border, 24 divisions in Prussia, and my Prussian forces got pushed in pretty quickly. I'm stalled on the Polish front, not making any headway.

I'm mostly using two infantry divisions, a 7 inf 2 art with engineer and artillery support. They are probably 25 percent of my forces. I'm using a 'reserve' infantry unit of 10 inf with engineer and artillery support, and they constutute 60-70 percent of my forces. The other 5-15 percent of my troops are the panzer and motorized infantry templates Germany starts with.

In both games, I'm having problems producing enough artillery. I'm going with the strategy of moving all of your excess starting military factories into fighters, to ensure I have enough fighters for the start of the Battle of Britain. I have sufficient fighter coverage for the Czechs and the Polish/French, but if the English get involved I don't have enough fighters to deal with that.

Anyone have any tips for someone returning to the game after a long time away?

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

I am gently caressed by my SAnta


Fun Shoe

Just make the majority of your army a basic line holding 20 width infantry. Reserves are nice, but they shouldn't outnumber your actual army. Personally I think that 7/2 infantry is too much artillery if you're not familiar with how to balance your production. Just go with pure infantry divisions and you'll be fine as long as you have enough of them.

Your armor division should be something like 5/5 medium tanks and motorized infantry. Having like 12 of those when you start your war with Poland will be more than enough to crush them with encirclements.

Also, you didn't mention it, but playing on historical AI focuses helps with predictability of the game while learning.

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Normal line artillery hasn't been good for a while now, anyways. If you have the production and want more soft attack with your line infantry you want it to be a single heavy SPG.

3 Heavy, 2 H.SPG, 5 Mob. Inf. are also devastating to front lines if you have the production to support it. Back them up with light tank swarms and you can encircle anything. And if you really, really want to break it just make the light tank swarms 2 LT, 2 Mob Inf and send them out to capture all the ports/airfields/VP you can and as long as you're always moving they should rarely die - the goal of which is to cut off every line of supply you can in as many places as you can so their front lines collapse.

Rynoto fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 10, 2021

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012


Grevlek posted:

So I have not played this game in a while, and I'm getting stopped as Germany, on Normal.

Game one of trying to play again, mostly focused on industrial build up. The Czechs refused to give up the Sudetenland, I couldn't invade them from Austria, and the French started to move into the Ruhr.

Game two, prepared better by mixing military and industry build up. Prepared for war with the Czechs, but they gave up the border. The Poles were next, and they refused to give up the corridor. I had 48 divisions on their western border, 24 divisions in Prussia, and my Prussian forces got pushed in pretty quickly. I'm stalled on the Polish front, not making any headway.

I'm mostly using two infantry divisions, a 7 inf 2 art with engineer and artillery support. They are probably 25 percent of my forces. I'm using a 'reserve' infantry unit of 10 inf with engineer and artillery support, and they constutute 60-70 percent of my forces. The other 5-15 percent of my troops are the panzer and motorized infantry templates Germany starts with.

In both games, I'm having problems producing enough artillery. I'm going with the strategy of moving all of your excess starting military factories into fighters, to ensure I have enough fighters for the start of the Battle of Britain. I have sufficient fighter coverage for the Czechs and the Polish/French, but if the English get involved I don't have enough fighters to deal with that.

Anyone have any tips for someone returning to the game after a long time away?

You really shouldn't be getting owned by Poland. What year is it?

Probably worth a restart anyways if you've dumped a lot of factories on artillery. Line artillery isn't worth and takes too much production, as you have experienced.

The starting tank template is too small, should have filled it up with 4 mot or whatever.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


Grevlek posted:

So I have not played this game in a while, and I'm getting stopped as Germany, on Normal.

Game one of trying to play again, mostly focused on industrial build up. The Czechs refused to give up the Sudetenland, I couldn't invade them from Austria, and the French started to move into the Ruhr.

Game two, prepared better by mixing military and industry build up. Prepared for war with the Czechs, but they gave up the border. The Poles were next, and they refused to give up the corridor. I had 48 divisions on their western border, 24 divisions in Prussia, and my Prussian forces got pushed in pretty quickly. I'm stalled on the Polish front, not making any headway.

I'm mostly using two infantry divisions, a 7 inf 2 art with engineer and artillery support. They are probably 25 percent of my forces. I'm using a 'reserve' infantry unit of 10 inf with engineer and artillery support, and they constutute 60-70 percent of my forces. The other 5-15 percent of my troops are the panzer and motorized infantry templates Germany starts with.

In both games, I'm having problems producing enough artillery. I'm going with the strategy of moving all of your excess starting military factories into fighters, to ensure I have enough fighters for the start of the Battle of Britain. I have sufficient fighter coverage for the Czechs and the Polish/French, but if the English get involved I don't have enough fighters to deal with that.

Anyone have any tips for someone returning to the game after a long time away?

How many divisions do you have overall? I would beef up the armored divisions a little bit because I think the default template isn't quite big enough and reorient towards meeting your artillery deficit instead of fighters. 8 divisions of roughly 20width should be enough for Poland, but ideally you would have at least 12 armored divisions. Maybe build a few more and deploy them as soon as they're fully equipped, don't bother training them.

You should be able to roll over poland with a token force defending against France. Do you mean 10 width infantry for your reserve divisions? If so, I think that is way too small and way too large a proportion of your army if you are struggling to deal with Poland. 24 divisions should be able to hold East Prussia indefinitely, even if they do get pushed back into konigsberg.

If you have 72 infantry divisions and you aren't making headway, it sounds like they're mostly too small to hold up in fights. They ought to be able to do enough legwork for you in even-odds battles that the armor is able to focus on breaking up exposed chunks of the enemy and turning salients into pockets, not caught up defending territory for you.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


10 inf with support battalions will get you through EVERY war as ANY nation to be honest.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


lmao is there seriously no non-monarchic democratic focus tree or communist tree as germany?

Paradox is wild

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007


We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold






]


shut up or they'll drop the soviets from the upcoming dlc in exchange for kraut money

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



I like it, though. The military coups the Nazis because they're monarchists so even if you tug back towards the republic, they still demand Wilhelm III be installed, and they're the ones who killed Hitler.

But then I've had to realize I'm the weirdo for not wanting every country to be able to go every path in 1936.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


If Portugal can conquer Brasil, Spain create a Europe-wide anarchist federation and France summon a Napoleon, then I think Germany returning to a parliamentary democracy a few years after Hitler reached power isn't really that utterly astonishing.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

The alt history paths they're putting in for countries like Turkey are already on the wrong side of too silly, IMO. What would a democratic Germany run even look like without some other alt-history nonsense like Fash France popping up for them to fight? "Year 10 of waiting for the Soviets to attack. I've run out of infrastructure to improve."

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Let's be honest a big subset of the appeal of monarchist Germany over the rest (among modern day map-staring nerds of a fashy bent and among a bunch of contemporary generals, capitalists, and assorted reactionaries) is doing the exact same thing as Hitler but being able to go "see? see? we aren't evil like that crazy Hitler guy, we are but nobly defending Europe against the asiatic bolshevik horde and restoring Germany to the place stolen by cruel fate, but no war crimes pinky swear!"

The other Germanies need contrived wars to make HoI worth playing. (migrate Kaiserreich and TNO to Vicky 3 )

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



Mans posted:

If Portugal can conquer Brasil, Spain create a Europe-wide anarchist federation and France summon a Napoleon, then I think Germany returning to a parliamentary democracy a few years after Hitler reached power isn't really that utterly astonishing.

I don't like those either, tbf.

Well, Spanarchy is okay because it's actually difficult to do and not just booping focuses and waiting n x70 days.

Randallteal posted:

What would a democratic Germany run even look like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtb4uow940c

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


Randallteal posted:

The alt history paths they're putting in for countries like Turkey are already on the wrong side of too silly, IMO. What would a democratic Germany run even look like without some other alt-history nonsense like Fash France popping up for them to fight? "Year 10 of waiting for the Soviets to attack. I've run out of infrastructure to improve."

With alt scenarios, you can run really fluid multiplayer games where people decide how they want to roll.

Except if you're German, Italian or soviet, where for some reason you're stuck with "you HAVE to be Mussolini and his path and decisions were actually really good", "Stalin is 100% right" or "you can topple Hitler but you're still forced to pick up a king and run anti Semitic and anti slavic campaigns, just with a crown on top".

It sucks because there's really no point in picking them up, since you'll be doing effectively the same game 100% of times.

Again, it's really weird how you have more flavours of bizantine and ottoman empires in hoi4 but "Italy with no Mussolini' is unthinkable.

And about it risking being boring: there's a focus tree where your entire goal is to be even more obedient and loyal to your Japanese overlord than historically expected.

There's a frigging secret crusader state in Malta if you play in a specific way.

Let me play as papal Italy paradox, you cowards.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Crusader Hearts of Iron

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TwoStepBoog
Apr 12, 2008



TNO leak. If you fail the Black Army power struggle.
Also looks like they've completely redid the political ideology names.

TwoStepBoog fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 12, 2021

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