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Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

You can always set things for historical focuses, for which I am very grateful.

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Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

sudo rm -rf posted:

I don't think the AI is capable of boosting party support or supporting coups.

I seem to recall a dev diary off handedly mentioning that AI willingness to plan coups had to be tweaked down (which suggests they can), but I could be hallucinating.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

What the hell happened in Quill's stream to spawn Russia?

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I'm not sure I've ever played a strategy game where the AI was actually "smart" enough to deal with a player on equal terms. As long as it can put up enough of a fight to feel like I'm actually in a war in this war game I will be appeased.

e; if Germ casually annexes the USSR every game that is a problem tho

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Ofaloaf posted:

tbf in the timelapse, the USSR was apparently also at war with the Allies, which just encouraged the Soviets to overextend and then lose control of the main front.

Ye looking at the stream this doesn't seem as dire as people are making it out to be. He's stalled short of Moscow and his manpower is slowly tanking

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Triggerhappypilot posted:

Coups take way, way too long to fire. The time it takes to prepare one should be proportional to party support.

Edit: also, the winter penalties to attacking are too low. It really needs to be something that completely stalls the German attack so the Soviets have enough time to regroup.

It did shred his manpower.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Triggerhappypilot posted:

yeah on further consideration the winter did stall his offensive, but the AI is really bad at holding important cities, like, oh, say, Moscow.


Edit: I've yet to see a game where GB has not tried a naval invasion in Wilhemshaven. I think the AI may be just a bit too triggerhappy on naval invasions without proper support.

In general it seems maybe too easy to launch naval invasions? It seems like massed Overlord-esque landings should be tied to late war tech or something. Although that fucks with Pacific Theatre and the Scandinavian invasions... this is all armchair bullshitting atm anyway

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Phi230 posted:

Well I like the idea of sandbox vs railroad but I don't want meaningless chaos. I want things to be plausible for alt-history, not things just happening. Right now from all the videos I've seen its all "omg so randumn holds up spork" kind of poo poo.


That's not even accounting for the AI issues apparently taking hold already. Some of these AI issues seem to be carry overs from HoI3 though so I know they'll be fixed.

This is why we have historical focus and a 1939 start.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

ArchangeI posted:

The historical focus does not prevent Japan from landing in Finnland.

I never said it did. I was only responding to noted tantruming forums baby Phi that he probably doesn't need to worry about "lol random" alt history if he doesn't want to

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

ArchangeI posted:

Japan invading Finnland isn't strange and random to you?

It's the difference between borked AI and Trotsky's Worker's Paradise teaming up with the French Commune to DP Hitler

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Phi230 posted:

Lol showing concern at a game I like is "throwing a tantrum." Stop being so sensitive.


Historical focus seems to have no bearing on what the AI actually does in game. You still have like the above example, Germany stationing its entire military on the Spanish border. Historical focus doesn't stop bizarre things from happening. poo poo, in some timelapses Germany and the Soviets never even go to war. Even Germany and France don't go to war. On Historical.

You still have Japan invading Finland, and other crazy poo poo that is bothering.


I'm not against alt-history. I'm against weird, random things like that. When I wanna play crazy, lol so randum games I'll turn off historical focus, which I will. However with Historical focus on I expect to fight WW2, just fight it my way. Not having to stave off Japanese naval invasions of Finland. Or Spanish invasions of Mexico or whatever happens.

All this weird poo poo was in HoI3 and got fixed soon enough. So I'm not too worried.

I was actually referring to the (apparently dead, unfortunately) ATG lp.

Anyway yeah, if the AI is completely inept that's a problem, although at least it isn't completely inert (lol Stellaris). Trying to create an AI for a grand strategy wargame kind of has its own host of interesting issues, given that there's a degree of specificity that comes from modeling the game after a particular period and war combined with the free form nature of the beast. Games like WitP try to get around this by focusing on a specific theatre and use of scripts with uneven results (see the Allies completely vacating Rangoon in Grey's LP). Obviously basic competency in maintaining a front or responding to threats is one thing, but I don't really expect much more than that from a wargame. The only times I've really been impressed with an AI is in Ultimate General, which has the blessing of an admirably limited focus. And then there's just cases in war where one side does in fact get it's rear end completely kicked; it's not like it was "bad AI" when Guderian cleaved through France.

I guess what I'm saying is that making an AI that "feels" plausible Is Hard

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

ArchangeI posted:

The AI has shown these issues for months now, and every time someone pointed it out it was shouted down with a chorus of "fixed already in the next build!"

I'm not too optimistic about the devs stumbling over the solution now, three days before release.

Especially since paradox devs don't work weekends.

People have been showing a healthy skepticism towards HoI ever since it got delayed, this aint the Stellaris pre-release "let me write a five paragraph essay on my snowflake space anarchists" thread.

To continue AI chat, one thing I've considered is whether or not people would be more willing to give rough systems a break if they could see its reasoning. The old FPS FEAR remains lauded for what was actually pretty simple squad AI, just because it would constantly chatter in your ear. Kill a squad leader? All the soldiers run around like chickens with their heads cut off shouting "OH poo poo OH poo poo OH poo poo." Soldier flanks you? He says "I'm flanking." It sounds stupidly simple, but when you are stuck in a player's perspective it's actually very difficult for the devs to communicate that enemies are reacting with rudimentary intelligence towards your actions. Civ V experimented with this: the espionage system could give you a rough idea of whether an opponent was preparing a sneak attack invasion or building up units, but it was let down by the fact that V's AI remains shockingly retarded. I'm imagining an offshoot of Victoria 2's newspapers or another use for decryption, some in universe way of roughly communicating the AI's reasoning and priorities.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Sulla posted:

Yikes.

I'll uh...wait for the first DLC.

Why does everything need to be "3 steps forward, 2 steps back" with these guys anyway? Mini AI invasions, kamikaze thrusts deep into enemy territory which are inevitably cut off...These are the sorts of things HOI2 modders mostly figured out years ago. What's the deal? It's like they're trying to reinvent the wheel with every new game or something.

The HoI IV wheel needed to be reinvented after the HoI III wheel (which was really more of a flaming garbage can lid) went careening off a cliff into an orphanage

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Smoremaster posted:

I love these threads cause it's all hype until a few days before release, when it switches to doom and gloom and a loathing of paradox

It is important for posterity to know that you didn't have the wool pulled over your eyes before the release of guaranteed-disaster-in-the-making Hearts of Iron IV.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Trying to parse the aviation interface could drive a man mad. Otherwise I'm having fun with my fumbling Italy tutorial game. 300,000 good men died in the hills of Yugoslavia, and Legionary Romania ended up sniping Belgrade anyway :lol:

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I'm very impressed with how well this runs on my laptop. Full speed just zips along

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I've played through to late 41 on three games now, Italy, Turkey, Sweden. I'm impressed with how consistently Germany stomps Poland and France, and how they keep getting stopped juuuuust before Moscow as winter rolls in. Good game.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Koesj posted:

Re: good division design.

Folks are already min-maxing their stuff, and a decent aim seems to be to go for divisions with 20 width (22 if they're under an offensive general). There's 80 width per province and 40 for every extra one you attack from, so keeping track of your units and planning gets more convenient with even numbers and units sized for max efficiency. Even better is that you won't run the risk of getting overstacking penalties or having a province undermanned.

Support artillery/antitank works great with this setup as well since the nominal soft attack bonus gets applied four times if you do a full-on 4 division-assault from a single province. Don't skimp on line artillery though! It gives fantastic soft attack bonuses, and INF on its own is pretty much only good at defending.

Anyway, here's some suggestions cribbed from the Pdox forums for your pleasure (and so you won't have to visit that cesspool yourself):

  • 10 INF for a really basic division if you're playing a poo poo country; add support artillery for attacking. I guess these are good for colonial duties as well?
  • Exchange 3 INF for two line artillery battalions (they have 3 width instead of two) for a harder-hitting division. They'd really benefit from adding engineers, and probably support AT as well if the enemy has more than a handful of tanks.
  • At the moment self-propelled artillery is really freaking good, so a nice basic armored division is 4 motorized infantry, 3 light armor, and 3 light SP artillery. Upgrade to medium versions and mechanized inf if you've got the tech and production to spare. They'll benefit from support artillery a lot as well, and it was suggested to add maintenance and logistics companies for better reliability and a smaller footprint.

What was really cool was using my two Italian volunteer tank divisions, upgraded to 2 cav, 4 mot, and 1 light tank from Ethiopian experience, and building them out during the Spanish Civil War. First came an additional tank battalion, which helped out a lot against the Soviet volunteer tanks, and with the experience I was gaining I exchanges two cav for 1 tank and my first SP artillery battalion...

Wow. Like a hot knife through butter, and almost twice as fast as well thanks to losing those horses. I ended up bouncing around low org divisions across the peninsula and trapping half of the international brigades against the Pyrenees. Right now I'm training four more of these babies to be able to slice through Yugoslavia in August '37!

Thanks for this, the division designer is the one thing about this game I still find truly opaque. Well, the division designer and the aviation interface.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Bombing seems like it has a disproportionately large effect on war participation, but maybe that's just because my SU armies haven't broken into the delicious German interior yet and occupation will take care of that.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

The Narrator posted:

After my first Italy game turned into a bit of a wash at the start of WW2, I started another one last night and already feel like I've done much better. Playing with historical focuses. Gobbled up Yugoslavia in 1937 (last time, Japan's war in China shot up world tension so I couldn't eat Yugoslavia for fear of France's guarantee) and set up lines for Greece when the war itself kicked off.

In early 1939, Japan declared war on the United States :stare: At the time neither were part of an alliance, but after a short time they ended up in the Axis/Allies, dragging us in with it too.

A couple of months later, the Soviet Union declared war on Poland :stare: after about a week Germany DOWed Poland too.

Hungary and Romania for some reason started their own shitfight and jumped into Axis/Allies respectively because why not.

So the state of the world in early 1940: Allies (including the USA) are at war with both the Axis and the Comintern in separate wars. The pacific front is fairly static - Japan has captured Wake Island but there hasn't been much movement since then. Nationalist Spain joined the Axis but hasn't done much other than taking some bits of French North Africa. As Italy I managed to capture both the Suez and the Rock in quick succession, inadvertently capturing a big British fleet in the Med. A British landing in Greece (pre-Gibraltar) has significantly slowed down my advance there. North Africa is pretty safely in Italian hands. My manpower is seriously draining so I think I'm going to be fairly useless soon.

At this point I'm thinking about switching production focus to a navy that can knock out this British fleet, because it's just a pain in the butt (but at least it can't do much damage elsewhere). Once I finish off Greece I think I'll move my North African troops to take Iraq and Saudi Arabia to lock down some friendly oil reserves. European troops will be split between the Hungarian/Romanian front and guarding the French coast. Toying with a Turkey invasion to capture Second Rome and open up a front for the inevitable Axis/Comintern fight.

It's really not what I expected to happen in this game but it's really entertaining nonetheless. Paradox actually got me to enjoy a Hearts of Iron game!

You may know this already, but you can trade more manpower at the expense of slower production by switching conscription laws. As even a moderately large nation you can fight almost indefinitely that way.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I really want a WW1 mod.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Odobenidae posted:

They declared on Switzerland and Liberia after WWII started in one of my Italy runs.

The war participation (and the scoring in general) has some ridiculous bias towards bombing, so you'll get ridiculous outcomes where the Soviets have bled millions of men but because Britain has a few thousand planes that blew up some factories they're #1.

Ye the bombing thing needs to be tuned way down.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

It would be nice if the pacific and european theatres could be technically divided into two wars or something. The Reich has fallen and I just want to carve up Europe to see what borders we get, but in the meantime I'm going to have to wait ~3 years or however long it takes for England and the US to invade Japan.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Generally I see the Nationalists win in the starts when I haven't sent volunteers to help Republican Spain.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

TomViolence posted:

France has an extra layer of bother too, since it only accrues 20% of the usual daily political power. You can still burn your first focus on political reorganisation or whatever it's called if you want to rush it, but considering how behind you are on industry it's quite the opportunity cost in the early game.


Literally tearing away my ability to feel human.

France has a focus tree that helps it transition into alternate governments, and a number of specific striking labor events that will shunt you rapidly into communism. I just wrapped up my French Commune run, which was super fun. Only annoying thing was that I took the path towards making my own faction (gently caress bolshevism) but I think any country that would qualify for joining (i.e, is communist and afraid of fascists) would be instantly stolen by the USSR before I could react.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Asproigerosis posted:

Is bombing broken for war score? I did most of the groundwork occupying germany, but the soviets just jumped in my airfields and racked up an obscene bombing score. And then promptly hosed up my expansion ambitions by puppeting all the nations I wanted to take land from.

Bombing is way out of whack, perhaps because Paradox didn't want the UK to get shafted from a lack of occupation or something. If so they tuned it a little over zealously.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

The Narrator posted:

It's coming along!



Is this... Islam is the Light?

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Panzeh posted:

I don't think HOI4 needs to require you to use a strict OOB down to the corps level but a way to subdivide units in the battleplanner would be really helpful in making complicated plans.

Also some kind of breakthrough attack type where it punches through for specific provinces and doesn't stop to redress the front line. That alone would make Germany work a lot better because right now the only attacks the AI does is battleplanner style brute force all-front attacks.

I think this is what the "aggressive" posture from the upcoming patch is supposed to provide. The wording at least suggests that you won't have panzers and mech infantry peeling off to man the sides of the salient

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I kind of wish OOB was more of a thing in this game. It doesn't need to be true grognard (or even HoI3) madness, but, say, requiring each theater to have a Field Marshal and representing generals as an actual HQ unit. I also think it would be cool if armies could develop traits, but maybe that would be a little too weird.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Has anyone seen an AI Germany launch an invasion of England? One of the reasons I'm generally disinclined to play as an Axis power (other than the Germans) is that even if they take out the USSR and USA doesn't join the Allies, Hitler will never attempt to finish off the Brits, even as the Raj and the rest of the empire crumble to Japan. I feel like control of the Suez and India should definitely tank UK national unity. It's also kind of ridiculous just how many planes they can field; there should be a pilot pool that needs to be invested in to stop them from creating an infinitely expanding airforce from day 1.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Psychotic Weasel posted:

Today's dev diary on the 1.2 patch is now out:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-development-diary-26th-of-august-2016.964880/

Continuing on last week's teaser you can now release other nations that previously didn't exist across parts of Asia and Europe.

And other than that apparently AI improvements are ongoing but there is little else covered or mentioned so far.

Don't want to come off as butt hurt but I gotta say I'd much rather hear some solid details on tweaks to mechanics and gameplay than the addition of new cores.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Poil posted:

Wasn't air supplying a terrible idea that didn't work pretty much every single time it was tried in ww2?

At Demyansk the 16th Army (or parts of it, anyway) was encircled but was successfully kept supplied by air, ultimately escaping. That increased Hitler's enthusiasm for the idea when Stalingrad was enveloped, which was on an entirely different scale and... somewhat less successful.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

I'm not normally one to get worked up about DLC but that really seems like it should be in the free patch, imo. Anything that makes the battle planner easier to use, really.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Spiderfist Island posted:

I did a little more work on my "Latin American super-nations" mod this week. So far I think that I bit off a bit more than I could chew in terms of the original scope of the mod, and so I've decided to create only national focus stuff for the four big players in the mod: Gran Colombia, Peru-Bolivia, La Plata, and Brazil. The smaller nations (Caribbean, Haiti, United Provinces, and Chile) and Mexico will still exist, but there won't be any unique focus trees for them.

Each of the four nations will have different starting doctrines and special forces. In a game that has the Historical Focus box on, they'll always go to the same ideologies. Honestly, the decision on what the "historical" focus ideology will be for a country is entirely on what the available unique unit portraits were for that nation. So far the plan is:
  • Gran Colombia: land Grand Battleplan, sea Trade Interdiction, air Strategic Destruction. Marines. Goes Fascist.
  • Peru-Bolivia: land Superior Firepower, sea Base Strike, air Strategic Destruction. Mountaineers. Goes Democratic.
  • La Plata: land Mobile Warfare, sea Base Strike, air Operational Integrity. 1936 Light Tanks. Goes Communist.
  • Brazil: land Mass Assault, sea Fleet In Being, air Battlefield Support. Paratroopers. Goes Fascist.
Anyways, my current focus is on political portions of the national focus trees, and I've finished the first sketch of the Gran Colombian tree. In 1936 this ahistorical GC is still dominated by a classically Bolivarian oligarchy of aristocrat landowners, capitalists, and military men. However, a wave election year in the lower house combined with extremism and a global depression will probably end the Ocaņa Republic.

The Ideology tree section.

The Communist and Fascist paths provide methods to counteract US influence in the surrounding Latin American states. After the dust settles from political realignments, Gran Colombia has several avenues they can take for expansion. These can be taken only if the target countries aren't the same ideology as you.

The war goals tree section.

I'm 100% inexperienced when it comes to writing National Focus trees. Does it seem like there's too much within this section of the National Focus tree, and if not is it still easy to parse? I might have given the neutral autocracy path short shrift, so maybe giving them a avenue to attack Peru-Bolivia only may keep a neutral Gran Colombia interesting.

Extra image: Gran Colombian tank names for the mod. Only one of these actually existed (Tortuga) and it wasn't even a tank, just an armored car.

This looks awesome.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Raenir Salazar posted:

I would like the OOB to be a bit more detailed. Put the Field Marshals in the theater itself and make Generals cheaper to bring out. Early to Mid game I much prefer my 6 division armies for the flexibility; selecting 6 divisions of a 24 division army for a specific task is kinda difficult to do without excessive pausing.

Just me or does the constant shifting around the battle planner fronts do prevent them from accumulating their planning bonus when you have an offensive drawn out? It makes it really annoying.

Ye I don't need a full grog OOB but I wouldn't mind having them feel a little more like actual fronts and armies. imo field marshals should be assigned per theater and grant bonuses across the whole shebang. And bring back HQs damnit

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Psychotic Weasel posted:

To be perfectly honest I never cared to keep HQs near the front in 3. Yeah they offered bonuses to nearby troops but after initially putting them somewhere I really couldn't be bothered to move them around.

The only time I'd really do something would be to either move them out of the way of rebels that popped up or if I noticed they were falling way too far behind. Most of the time I couldn't be even bothered to move the theatre HQs from wherever they were created. Didn't seem to hinder me in the slightest.

There are really dozens of other things I'd rather they focus on that making sure I can babysit HQ divisions again.

But ~my immersion~~ :(

On a different tack, The Great War mod team have been sending out their beta to streamers and it looks really drat good, the most polished big mod I've seen by far.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

rear end struggle posted:

The long anticipated Great War mod went public beta today.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699709023
It is looking tight

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

It's pretty great. I'm playing as France, war broke out in 1914 and along historical lines. It's now spring of 1918. Alsace-Lorraine and the Rhineland have been seized, at the cost of 1.4 million dead Frenchmen (and many, many Belgians). I'm going to have to dump on my industry and pass a new conscription law to make up the difference. The Western Front has lapsed into a stalemate; there are just too many German divisions to push through any farther atm, so I'm teching up and building a shitload of tanks. Germany and A-H doubleteamed Russia hard and it collapsed in the spring of 1916 and was replaced by the Soviets, who for the past two years have been engaged in a bloody and inconclusive struggle with the Whites. A-H almost exterminated Serbia, but the entrance of Italy into the war led to a huge push that took most of Hungary and only stopped at the gates of Vienna. With the conclusion of the eastern front swarms of hardened A-H troops have returned and launched a counter offensive that's pushed their enemies back to the starting line (freed up German divisions are what have stalled me out in the west). The United States just joined the war over the Zimmerman telegram, so hopefully they'll push things over the edge. Mod owns, it feels almost like an actual Paradox dlc.

e; honestly HoI feels a lot more suited for the slower pace of WWI strategy

Fuligin fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Nov 11, 2016

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Gamerofthegame posted:

ww1 mod has a thousand foci but they're all 70 days and a lot of them for poo poo like "add literally one infrastructure to a province"

FOR WHAT PURPOSE

Gamerofthegame posted:

ww1 mod has a thousand foci but they're all 70 days and a lot of them for poo poo like "add literally one infrastructure to a province"

FOR WHAT PURPOSE

I think it's intentional, actually, especially since many have date restrictions as well. It delays the player from turning their country into a killing machine that steamrolls the war.

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Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

It definitely needs war ending events that provide a clear resolution to things, but vanilla has the same problem. It might help if national unity was effected by more things; taking enormous casualties, having your own territory be occupied for an extended period of time, whatever. Apparently French Army mutinies can turn them socialist, but I don't know the details on how that's supposed to take place.

e; also Kaiserreich is apparently getting ready for a beta release as well

Fuligin fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 12, 2016

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