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GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Randarkman posted:

I'm still weirded out that it's that easy to get around that law.

The law is really not meant to target videogames as such (exceptions being stuff like KZ Manager) but to prevent people from spreading actual Nazi propaganda. The problem with regards to video games is that in 1994 an Amtsgericht (lowest court in Germany) judge decided that Wolfenstein 3D and with it any videogame could never be classified as art and no one ever tried to challenge that precedent but instead publishers decided to self-censor to ensure that they are not in violation of that particular law.

What would be needed is a publisher (or developer) having the balls to publish a Game with Swastikas in Germany and defend the game as a product of art in the art.


But this all is really not important because if you live in Germany and want HoI4 with the real Hitler (which is not forbidden, only selling the game might be problematic) just order it from https://www.imperialgames.com (cheapest I found) and use a VPN to activate it from a location outside of Germany.

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GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Groogy posted:

Also you could potentially you know... mix brigades in a division? The Icon you see on the map is one you choose when you create the division design. You can have a Unicorn there and it could be your division made up by 3 tank brigades, 2 mechanized and an artillery brigade... Or whatever you feel like. A bunch of helmets on the map means whatever you want it to mean. Tis ain't NATO counters.

A bunch of helmets on the map means you are a filthy causal who doesn't use Nato counters, that what that means and always will mean.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Question is how well does the AI use tanks?

Their use obviously is to create a breakthrough which will subsequently exploited by more tanks (and stabilized by infantry) to encircle large parts of the enemy force. If the AI is unable to perform those actions efficiently, well, that would be bad.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
If you don't understand why tanks were necessary to beat the SU, I'm not sure what to tell you. Sure, they did not perform as well as Germany hoped, especially on the Northern front, but that doesn't mean that infantry would have been more successful. There is no way Germany can win a battle of attrition, which means the only possible road to victory is concentration of force and violence of action to win before the enemy is capable of organizing it's defenses and tanks are exactly the ground unit that is ideal for this kind of action.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

TeenageArchipelago posted:

the wording makes it seem like it will be expansions plus things like tank packs and music packs that will come out with the expansions

Don't forget the badly written books/CYOAs that they will release.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

I hope the exclusive Strategy Guide will just be one PDF with the sentence "Don't built tanks when in invading the USSR".

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
While certain assault guns were also used as tank destroyers (in particular the StuG III), their main task was to support infantry against other infantry units, something tank destroyers in HoI4 are probably very bad at.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Enjoy posted:

Look at the niche it is filling

SPART: when you're facing mostly infantry

TD: when you're facing tanks

Tanks: when you're facing a mix

What would assault guns be for?

Assault guns would be cheaper than tanks, would have a huge bonus defensively against tanks but a malus offensively against tanks while at the same time hardening an infantry division against other infantry divisions.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Koramei posted:

How feasible is a world conquest in this relative to something like EU4?

Much easier as you are not bound as much by the warscore constraint. Probably the easiest with either the SU or Germany.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Germany not having a single skill 5 general is kinda strange.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Phi230 posted:

So what that Germans dont start with rank 5.

Level them up to rank 5 in the god damned world war youre starting

It's simply disrespectful to assume that Rommel is not miles ahead of Montgomery and Patton's equal by default.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
The gameplay argument is probably that Germany, if they started with lvl5 generals, would be able to train further commanders during the early wars, giving them a decisive edge over UK and SU, while those countries don't have as much opportunity, so they get their 5s for free at the start of the game.

Still not happy about it, because the inexperience of their leaders in the context of a "modern" war was a major problem for the allies.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Gort posted:

To the guy who said the wiki has been updated, you weren't kidding. There's shitloads of solid mechanical detail on land, air and sea warfare up that wasn't there before.


They simply imported the Beta Wiki entries.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

COOL CORN posted:

edit-- if Stellaris runs really well on my laptop, can I assume that HOI4 will run relatively well?

It should actually run better than Stellaris, given that there are no fleet fights with missiles and stuff flying around.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Well, I'm really concerned about the state of the AI, given that Arumba just conquered France with just rightclicking Paris and spamming infantry after he tried to attack through the Maginot Line.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

sarmhan posted:

Didn't he take a massive manpower hit for doing it like that though?

Yeah I noticed that later too.

Astroclassicist posted:

:eyepop:

The flower of German youth dead in the killing fields of....Romania????

Well, his strategic genius was to blob everything with ~80 divisions of infantry, because "Infantry is dirt cheap". At the end of the stream he had 500k manpower left and started to built paratroopers to invade the UK, because that's going to work really well (he did invest next to nothing in air or naval power the whole game)

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

dublish posted:

I don't think it was as OP even as Daniel made it look. Daniel's Germany was down to less manpower than Johan's Britain, I think. Daniel just got really lucky that he was able to kick in the USSR's teeth during their civil war or purges or whatever.

That's probably going to be one of the bigger balance challenges - Once either the USSR or USA have ahistorical internal conflicts Germany becomes incredibly strong.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Drone posted:

That National Focus to puppet China seems broken as gently caress though. I didn't tune in when he took it, but he had the whole country puppeted minus Guanxi and Communists by mid-1936, peacefully.

Well, you only get a puppet instead of actually conquering it and because you do it peacefully you are missing out on Army and Leader experience, so it's a trade off.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

ArchangeI posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPPaY2Zba58

Some hosed up poo poo is what happens.

Well, Italy is beating France with a little German help (France looks very weak from what I saw in streams) while Germany did not go for M-R but instead it looked like the SU got eastern Poland through another event that led to Germany declaring war on them instantly. This war goes on for 3 years until the SU decides to attack Turkey and British holdings in the Middle East which diverts enough forces from the German front to allow the Reich to breakthrough and win the war. In the meantime the Allies, led by the US have taken the Balkans and are able to beat a Reich that probably is very low on manpower at this point.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Turkey seems to be the Afghanistan of HoI4 AI's.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
With the battleplan feature people seem to really discount the HoI3 mainstay of encircle and destroy in favor of just pushing the border.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
I think a big problem for the AI is, that it's 100% dependant on battle plans and the battle plan evaluation of forces when weighing its options and doesn't take into account the strategic layer when making decision about Naval Invasions for example. Basically the Nation AI <> Battle Plan AI interaction is broken as gently caress.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
To me the problem seems to be that the "leader AI" (this is the AI that does everything the player would usually do) is trusting their generals (the AI system used for battleplans) too much, by only using their information regarding the success chances of the battle plan when evaluating the situation. For example the player intuitively knows that he needs a lot of divisions to successfully invade via the coast around Wilhelmshaven, but if the battle plan AI does not see that Germany has troops there it will signal the leader AI "plan is a go", which the leader AI seems to not question enough.

Additionally the leader AI is probably not that sophisticated when it comes to drawing and evaluating the battle plans themselves which leads to further problems, especially when it's not abandoning outdated battle plans fast enough. From the few AI battle plan screenshots I saw it looks like their approach is basically "take that country with one offensive line", which leads to further problems.

It would probably have been a good idea to have 2 versions of the battle plan AI, one more sophisticated to be used by the AI and one dumbed down version to be used by the player.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Funky Valentine posted:

Strategy game AI incredibly incompetent, more at 11.

Well, if an AI can beat one of the best GO players, it should be able to pose at least a mild challenge to the people that discuss whether assault guns need to be in a computer game.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Drone posted:

Just finished watching all of Quill18's videos of his Italy run so far. Towards the end he was even talking about how the AI was lackluster. At one point, Hungary was at war with Germany, and the German AI did basically nothing to stop them for the first few months of the war.

I dunno man. I'm super optimistic but it's going to be one of those things that I won't be able to properly judge until I'm playing the game.

Actually I think that Germany in his playthrough is not really at fault for the sorry state the Axis is in but he himself is. By taking a large chunk of France he catapulted himself way ahead of Germany in terms of industrial strength but is not supporting his allies in subsequent wars (e.g. against Hungary) but rather uses his strength to conquer all of Africa (Why?), Turkey and parts of the Middle East. Germany having troubles with Weserübung is a bit disconcerting but without a look at a composition of the German forces and where they are needed, you can't really blame the AI too much, especially as it's an AI vs. AI situation, which means that Hungary's and Denmark's AI performing very good.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Descar posted:

did they remove practical knowledge in research?

Yes. But production efficiency is a similar concept.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

sudo rm -rf posted:

Communist/Fascist Endonym names are almost done for Europe.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vnO-I9pMoHLa69uzo2TbasS31x-lj1cTkfCy2RVV1Y8/pubhtml

You can change ideology with tabs at the top.

Communist Germany should be called German Democratic Republic/Deutsche Demokratische Republik

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

So is this going to release at the same time Stellaris did? In like 26 hours?

pretty much, even though it would have been cool if they synched it with the actual D-Day Landings.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Why you guys using a 1-10 scale with 1 being good? The usual convention is that 10 is good and 1 is bad.

Going by this my current expectation is 6-9 for release, mostly dependent on the AI, though the fact that GB does not guarantee Belgium from the start is kinda strange.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Drone posted:

The scale isn't "how good the game is", it's "how concerned are you that it will suck"

Per the original question:

That makes a lot of sense.


Orange Devil posted:

We're all getting ready for our Germany playthrough.

The German scale is either 1-5 (university) or 1-6 (school) :)

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

StarMinstrel posted:

Can't wait for instantaneous bad reviews on Steam for DLC gouging and the lack of obvious NATO symbols.

Nato symbols should be the default option though!

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Dirk the Average posted:

Definitely a bug, but isn't the primary win when encircling divisions that the division is no longer in play and it will take quite some time to replace it? The loss in manpower and equipment seems relatively minor in comparison.

If you have the manpower and equipment putting them back into action is relatively easy, they just lose all their experience.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Drone posted:

Canada gets really underrepresented in media about World War 2, despite the fact that they did a disproportionately huge amount of stuff in the war for a country with only 10 million people (at the time). Besides grognardy wargames, the only time I can ever recall Canadian troops being in any WW2 video games are in Call of Duty 3 (which is a flawed game but also features Free Polish troops and there's a really tense and dramatic moment near the end where Canadians save the day), and I wanna say one of the expansions for Battlefield 1942 had you playing as Canadian paratroopers.

Liberation of Caen (Operation Pegasus) was actually a free content patch for the original BF1942

Antti posted:

Talvisota (literally "The Winter War") is a good Finnish movie from 1989, it might be available in English subtitles on DVD?

There's also The Unknown Soldier, but that's about the so-called Continuation War AKA the far less heroic and celebrated half of WW2.


Talvisota is also a really good song by Sabaton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FaRAixpwIM

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

sudo rm -rf posted:

Maybe Commonwealth for communist and Dominion for fascist?

Canadian Fascists would probably hate the English monarchy so Dominion doesn't really make sense. Maybe Republic of Canada for the Fascists and Union of Canadian (Worker's) Councils for the Communists?

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

sudo rm -rf posted:

Don't have name for fascist United States yet, though.

The Trump Organization
Confederate States of America

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

CommunistPancake posted:

Ok, then, different question:

Why does it still say I don't?

Because you are looking at "Army manpower" not "manpower on the field". The first includes divisions in training.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
To be fair, Germany should never built carriers for Sealion, given that they have perfectly fine airfields on land that can reach most of England and Wales without much problem. just use the Netherlands and Northern France as your "carrier" and bomb the Royal Navy into oblivion.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Vorpal Cat posted:

Looking up the stats:

Light Tank II, 6 hard attack, 15 armor, production cost 9*60 units per brigade = 540

Medium Tank I, 15 hard attack, 60 armor, production cost 12*40 per brigade = 600

Towed Anti-tank, 15 hard attack, 75 piercing, production cost 4*36 per brigade = 144

So yea anti-tank guns are incredibly cost efficient for countering tanks.

The point of tanks is that they have incredibly high breakthrough values. Armor/Piercing is a binary check.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
Can you use transport planes to resupply troops otherwise cut off from supply (and if so, how?)

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GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
FYI: Production Efficiency Retention is bugged and will reduce the amount of production efficiency you retain instead of increasing it.

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