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HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

Yeah, which is why it's weird to me that army reform (a thing a bunch of guys who weren't at war did, especially during WW2) and tank redesigning (same deal) are things that're gated behind (mostly) actual combat experience, while workable doctrines that produce results instead of outdated gimmicks or fantasies are a thing you can do while sat on your hands. Doctrines (in game terms, being ones that give measureable benefits) seem far more like a thing that you can only really get through trial and error.

This is especially dumb because by the time you can develop and deploy newly redesigned units the war is already over as the AI doesn't understand how to play.

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HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
Both soviet and nazi "doctrines" were made up after the fact to explain why they had work. They didn't actually exist in 1939.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

You know, I've seen the "The soviets just stole nazi doctrine" hot take but I've never seen "actually, nobody had any idea what they were doing and it was all just one massive carry on sketch" before.

Hitler himself was counting on a long war with the British and French in France. Soviet "defense in depth" was just an excuse for losing 6 months straight because they thought the nazis were their allies.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

StarMinstrel posted:

What was the tank the Russian made that was ready to drive out of the factory gates, and was basically a gun on a cardboard box with wheels? I remember a quote about how they would change speed while banging a hammer on a knob.

They did that in stalingrad with t34s. They didn't even need to put in the optical sights (which were made elsewhere) since they could just eyeball aim the cannon on the streets.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

It's almost like Russia's vastness devours the German army.

TBH if you've captured the Urals then the Soviets are hosed anyway, they're not going to have enough factories to meaningfully resist a push for more than a few weeks, unless they somehow withdrew with 90% of their army and can endlessly reconsolidate under the next patch. You probably just have to draw a line and click go; you've won already. Unless your complaint is that you're stressed in the west and need a speedy victory, in which case that seems entirely appropriate to be an issue for you.

I think they're saying that a collapse event chain or something would be nice. I mean they're adding one for japan so it doesn't seem unreasonable. Germany was the historical exception with suicidally fighting to the last street long after the war was lost.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Arven posted:

It would be nice if sinking ships caused a stability/war support hit. If Japan or England loses its entire fleet they should really surrender faster...

well this is where games fail, the axis never planed on invading america but you are forced to in hoi

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
I don't have a problem with countries fighting bad wars. I have an issue with the AI seemingly starting a war with no intention to win it since it is pretty clear the focus AI and tactical don't actually communicate. Like, if your gonna do the "declare war on USSR" maybe put a unit on the eastern front?

Another issue i ran into is since the at least the Death or Dishonor update some countries don't seem to understand alliances. For example Romania never seems to send troops to the eastern front if the germans start the war without them. They will just sit in Romania waiting for the soviets to come.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

I think this is the first time I'm holding back on playing the entire game until patch day. Same with Stellaris. Normally I'm okay just playing somewhere else, but, man, there's so much here that's going to be awesome.

what will be in the patch vs dlc

will this be a EU4 style dlc where the game breaks if you don't buy it?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
I feel like the air game could benefit from some long term stats so you can really see what you are doing to production

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
hey i just want the ai to stop doing endless suicide attacks

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Enjoy posted:

You shouldn't joke about such things, Black Ice is a real mod that people play and it distresses me

what ever do you mean?

the game NEEDS this!

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....und-color=black

HorrificExistence fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Feb 10, 2018

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
my 700 jet fighters and 1000 long range supersonic bombers are far inferior to nationalist china's 13 billion biplanes

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

I'm really looking forward to capitulation being tied to... how the war is actually going, instead of how much ground you took.

wait, how will this work?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
honestly hoi needs more untimely leader deaths. Being in charge shouldn't mean chamberlin doesn't get cancer.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

spectralent posted:

War Support and/or Stability (unsure exactly which) affect capitulation threshold, which is affected by things like blockading, losses, ongoing bombing (and interception) and so on.

I think this will really revolutionize the game. It feels a little stale/unresponsive when killing millions and leveling countries has no effect on the war.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
one thing im starting to notice is secondary or puppet states seem to end up just keeping their units in their borders and producing huge amounts of infantry. This is a really big issue with Manchuria and Hungary. Anyone notice this?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

It happens with allies a lot too if they don't share a border with the enemy. Spain in particular never loving helps out.

It also means that the Germans collapse really quickly since they don't get help from Romania ect.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Cheen posted:

If only there was a video game where you could simulate these "what-if" situations in......

just fuckin with ya keep talking bout the war

according to the video game simulation the USSR would make 43 varients of tanks then leave no divisions in front of Moscow

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Jeoh posted:

Hitler easily would've won if he hadn't wasted so much time on those tanks.

One thing I've thought about a lot was that hitler was not planning to defeat france in 2 weeks. He was ready for a 2 year war in flanders. I bet if that happened the British would have been willing to armistice after their defeat on the continent. The Germans won on the land, and were like, poo poo, what next? They literally had a tiny and useless navy.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

ArchangeI posted:

We filled out our redpill-bingo cards and then unleashed the mods. It is incredible how upset people can get over a loving loading screen and general portrait that our artist made in her spare time.

grrrr how dare you make the game more historically accurate!

grognerds pick strange hills to die on

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
how do i put more than 24 units in an army without a penalty?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
holy poo poo i tagged switched

ai doesnt understand the new army system

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
I'm thinking about just not using the battle planner anymore, front lines are hard to manage. If i just place armies like in HoI2 how big is the defense penality?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

axeil posted:

I was


At least make the frontlines. I typically make frontlines and set attack objectives but I'll micro any tanks/mobile infantry for encirclements.

the issue is that drags away units. I had to keep redrawing it playing as france, it caused me to lose because I couldn't put some units to fill the belgium-lux gap and had to keep drawing and reorganizing the pile of tabs now needed to defend a border.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
again, I like the new army model, I just wish I could assign the entire army 1 order and 1 frontline.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Drone posted:

I assume (or hope) that the next one is a smaller expansion aimed solely at focus trees for Nat/Rep Spain (plus maybe Portugal). Beyond that, South America is in some serious need of attention, both in fleshing out the nations and in making the resources down there actually not batshit stupid.

A Scandinavia DLC is probably also inevitable and I'm honestly surprised Paradox hasn't put out a Swedish focus tree yet as freeDLC.

But yeah, this expansion is real good. So far I've done:

-Democratic Germany with ahistorical AI (fun and challenging as hell as I fought both the Comintern and a French-Italian fascist alliance simultaneously)
-Gran Colombia for the achievement (fun and definitely different, but warfare down south is a real slog)
-Manchukuo game that I just started up this morning

Swedish collaberatioon with the nazis is a faux pas in sweden so I doubt they'd touch it

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
Anyone else having issues with the AI leaving huge gaps in your frontlines?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

axeil posted:

Yeah I feel like HOI4 more than other Paradox games has to touch on some pretty uncomfortable subjects that most nations would probably rather forget.

I'm conflicted about excluding atrocities. On the one hand, they definitely happened and played a major role in the war, but on the other hand you really, really do not want to give the player a "do the Holocaust" button because jesus christ why would you ever click that.

Even what they did for the Stalinist purges is a bit uncomfortable to think about. It's such a huge issue and directly (rather than indirectly) impacted the Soviet's ability to fight, but man, it's pretty gross when you think about what clicking "The Great Purge" National Focus actually means you're doing.

I can't even bring myself to play as Nazi Germany so I'm super happy with the newest DLC because I can finally play as Germany and not be disgusted with myself.

What's worse is the game portrays the purges as needed to prevent a civil war. That is actually one of the most dangerous myths the game can perpetuate.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
Honestly, why don't they just have a "kill all jewish doctors" event for the USSR?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
Okay, seriously, gently caress this. I was trying to play france and the AI just kept moving my troops to leave huge gaps in the line. Some provinces had 18 divisions, others had zero. What the gently caress is this.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You'd need a new achievement for defeating a communist Germany as Rosa Luxembourg.

idgi rosa has been dead for almost 2 decades when the game starts

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

A Handed Missus posted:

yeah I've been noticing this too, getting stuck in Belgium all the time now

usually just pass through the south from Italy then

The British AI seems to land troops in France now.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
I feel like no one is addressing the fact that the game basically breaks post-1942.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Cling-Wrap Condom posted:

and the war feels flimsy and distant. the naval game is both terrifyingly obtuse and entirely divorced from the primary mechanic, safely ignored right until the AI deathstacks every one of your hairbrained transports into the bottom of the sea, killing 200 of your 11000 divisions as republican spain in 1944.

The air game still feels broken, and largely ancillary to the ground combat, the ground combat itself is both too mechanically heavy to be easily understood and simple enough to brute force, the political aspect of the game is a sidebar with no substantial differences other than cosmetic, it runs like poo poo, events for most of the focus trees are broken as poo poo, civil war mechanics don't make any sense..

Pro-tip, if you want to survive as poland, start a civil war before being invaded, and don't win until the germans come. It magically causes white peace.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Tahirovic posted:

Fascist Canada staying a puppet is weird too, they should launch some sort of independence war as soon as their political alignment changes from their overlord.

This is what happens with German Puppets/Liberia in Kieserriech, which is literally a better game.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
cool france is still unplayable because you can't put units on the border of more than one country.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
this game is only really meant to be played with germany right?

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
don't bother with tanks or motorized, infantry is all you need as you can hold units by attacking,

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos
literally cannot play this anymore, is there a way to revert to non broken frontline?

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HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

axeil posted:

3-way Axis/Allies/Comintern war where the Axis beats the Comintern can result in an Axis/Allies stalemate. Same thing if the Allies and Comintern beat the Axis.

Since the game's peace system is still a mess when this happens it's almost impossible to make any kind of headway and the game just kind of...stops.

The game usually ends around late 1941, when most countries have used all national focuses and the soviets or germans have won in europe.

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