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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Besides what has been mentioned about UK suicide invasions against Normandy and some other things, does anyone else find it weird when faction members try to give you their entire military as an expeditionary force? Italy and Hungary each gave me 70 divisions so now I have a massive force of meat shields that are mostly good for garrison duty (since Italy is completely undefended otherwise) or holding the eastern front during the winter. I could see Canada giving up most of their army but not a big power in a dangerous position like Italy. Seems odd.

Anyone on the fence though should buy this game. Try playing as Hungary, Spain, or a Balkan state first to get a feel for the mechanics. The great powers are a bit overwhelming at first but they're a lot of fun to play once you understand everything, there is a lot going on but the UI does a pretty decent job at making it manageable.

This game will be utterly amazing after some AI upgrades and DLC.

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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

It also seems to scale based off of the provincial population, so major cities like Paris and London might need 3 or 4 Cavalry/MP brigades whereas the Scottish Highlands might be fine with 1, or even just an infantry+engineer unit defending the port.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Nukes are fantastic. After turning the eastern US into a nuclear wasteland, they capitulate pretty quickly once you've taken every major city from Boston to DC. Which is actually pretty easy if you open up new fronts through naval invasions.


There needs to be more feedback regarding the air campaign, as Paradox surely knows. I had thousands of strategic bombers bombing the hell out of the US, USSR, and China for years yet there was zero feedback into how this really affected the war effort.
It's funny how Hungary is #1 despite having a fraction of Germany's army, land, and industrial score. I puppeted the USA and several other countries so I'm wondering if this plays into the final score? Also it's weird that the British Empire ended up #3 yet they had 0 provinces.


Bonus pic from my Poland game. This was very challenging to pull off, it was only really possible for me because Czechoslovakia resisted Germany and joined the Allies as soon as Germany declared war. I ended up defeating the Axis but losing to the USSR later when I foolishly guaranteed Estonian independence and the rest of the Allies decided to sit it out. The Soviet air force completely overwhelmed me and reduced my industrial output to nil, and since I hadn't spent time rebuilding after defeating Germany, my armies crumbled away fairly quickly.


edit: I hope Paradox changes the "major" country thing when it comes to finishing the war, at first I had to defeat the UK and USA to win the war, then it became the USA and Canada, then suddenly it was Canada, Australia, and Brazil. Then it was Brazil and Argentina. Of course my AI allies weren't helping me in the slightest so I had to invade all of these countries myself, finally ending the war once I nuked Buenos Aires and landed marines on their doorstep.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jun 20, 2016

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

slavatuvs posted:

So seriously how do you beat the US?

I tried coup-ing and then ferrying troops in, but the coup fell apart too fast, and that feels really gamey anyway.

The same way you beat every major power, except you need to do more island hopping to get to CONUS. You'll need plenty of strategic bombers, nukes, and a large navy unless you have the manpower to burn through South America first. It helps to wait for the USA to launch several doomed invasions first.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Yeah I used to be constantly sinking convoys but my last few games my subs just fart around and never seem to find any. You can't tell me the UK isn't sending convoys through the western approaches! Maybe they were completely out of them?

Also as Canada I invaded Normandy and was waiting for the UK to send their 32 divisions across the channel, but they never did. They were planning another naval invasion in Brittany but for some reason thought that was more important than reinforcing my giant front across half of France that quickly fell apart as my manpower couldn't sustain it.

Meanwhile their massive fleet sat in port for months while my 6 lovely destroyers patrolled the English channel for them. They were probably getting naval bombed, repairing, bombed again, repairing...

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Gamerofthegame posted:

You get a message/report for any naval attacks.

For other countries? ie port strikes that don't involve my ships at all.

Pyromancer posted:

Why would it go through western approaches? It doesn't need to trade with US, and convoys from colonies go along the coast through Suez and Gibraltar or around Africa if you locked down those. Try catching them on iberian coast zone

Somebody obviously never played Silent Hunter!

I was using that as an example but I had the issue in the English channel and bay of Biscay as well.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jun 23, 2016

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

In the new beta has anyone had any issues with volunteers not receiving supplies? My volunteers to Republican Spain didn't get any supplies until a few weeks passed, then my volunteers to the People's Republic of China never received supplies at all. They sat in their capital with 0 organization slowly dying of attrition until I finally disbanded them after a couple months. Do I need a sea route from my own country to supply them or something? Doesn't seem to be working as intended.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Don't just sit in Addis Ababa, put half of your army in a mountain sector directly adjacent to it and hold both of them. This way you avoid the 33% encirclement penalty and you can hold them off indefinitely until your armies are at full strength, then you can break out and seize the ports before finishing them off.

Edit: Also you can convert your entire army to mountain divisions, you get an extra bonus towards defending mountains then and IIRC Addis Ababa counts as a mountain sector, not urban.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jul 3, 2016

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

cock hero flux posted:

The issue with this is that holding more than just Addis Ababa reminds the Italian AI that you exist, leading them to dump 15ish divisions on you and murder you.

If you just sit in Addis Ababa, the Italian AI sends maybe 3 divisions, if that, to take it. If you hold any other province as well, they send more. A 33% penalty doesn't matter when you outnumber them 5 to 1.

Yeah but you can hold them all off as long as you take the industrial national focuses and you use those new factories to bring your divisions up to full strength. Meanwhile the Italians send hundreds of thousands of troops to their death and you can sit pretty while they blow all of their manpower.

Maybe the AI isn't so stupid anymore, I did this when the game first came out and it was pretty funny how easy it was too pull off.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

This beta patch seems pretty great so far as far as how AI countries try to pull off encirclements and defend against them. Also for sending an appropriate number of divisions to reinforce front lines that are losing ground. Although I had a weird thing as France when Italy put over 100 divisions on my border guarded by only 9 French divisions and they didn't bother attacking for weeks until I eventually made the first move.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

The biggest issue I have with the AI in 1.2 is when armies at war mass along borders and then proceed to do nothing. As France I saw Italy park 126 divisions in the Alps and do nothing, in my current Italy game I'm pouring into south France while Germany sits on the long French border doing nothing (they've already taken the Netherlands and Belgium). At least they're keeping half of the French army distracted.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Pvt.Scott posted:

Haha, I finished the tutorial part of the Italy game and I decided to prospect for oil in Libya. I figured I needed some men and later subs and destroyers to hold my oil once things heat up, so I queued up some colonial troops. I forgot to just set them to one batch, so while I was busy singlehandedly winning the Spanish Civil War with my three Italian infantry volunteer units, I didn't notice that I had cranked out 20 of the bastards. Oops.

gently caress it, I said, give em field hospitals, recon, engineers, support arty and an extra two infantry per unit and I'll stomp all over Africa or the Middle East or something.

This is going to be the worst.

Fyi you can change a unit's template in the field at any time. And you can change multiple units at once. Look for the button on the top left of the screen when you've selected the unit. This way you can upgrade colonial units without having to spend a lot of XP.

It's also useful if you have an army entering a low supply area and you want to give them logistics companies and remove heavy equipment without changing up your entire army.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

I played through an entire China game last night on 1.2.1, it looks like they tuned down the AI shuffling divisions back and forth across the front lines. But now they bunch up in weird places so maybe it needs a bit more tweaking.

Is there a way to restrict AI assigned to a front line from using convoys to get to the front? Japan had complete naval and air supremacy and then I noticed some of my reinforcements getting blown to bits by their fleet when they could have easily travelled by rail.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Wasn't as good as Band of Brothers.

IMO it's because the Pacific was based mostly on books written by 2 privates instead of a book about interviews and research covering a whole company. So it focuses more on just how lovely everything was as opposed to the more operational focus you'd get in BoB with the larger cast of characters.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Anything would make it better than it is now. Right now the Japan AI either conquers China in 3 months and then ships their troops to Europe, or they blow all of their manpower and get run out of Manchuria/Korea then do nothing until the player decides to attack them.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

If Japan doesn't take over additional rubber or oil resources then it isn't hard to out-build them in air power. It was easy as China to invade the home islands from Korea and Taiwan with paratroopers but if you don't have airbases in range I could see it becoming a problem.

jadebullet posted:

Supplies for an army are tied into infrastructure, correct? I ask because my invasion of the USSR and it's Chinese allies is going pretty well, but I do have supply issues.

Yes in the supply map mode you can find your bottle necks pretty easily. It is usually infrastructure or ports. When on the offensive it's a good idea to avoid strategic bombing and to build up infrastructure to at least 5 or 6 as you take territory. If they're pushing you back then consider more strategic bombing. Naval invasions work well when you send a small force to hold a port and then build it up, sending a large reinforcement wave once the port can supply them. Over-committing troops when you don't have the infrastructure will lead to extra manpower and equipment loss, so it might be better to entrench and wait for more infrastructure and use the extra troops to attack elsewhere.

1 other thing, you need to control the provincial capital to build infrastructure, so sometimes you'll be stuck fighting in heavily damaged infrastructure areas with nothing you can do about it. If you have a fast moving reserve force you can use them to get supplied in a better area then quickly attack the low supply area, when they run out of supplies they can pull off of the front and try again.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Sep 24, 2016

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Does anyone use AA guns in their divisions? I'd assume it would be useful if you can't get air superiority but I never really paid enough attention to see if it was effective or not. Also does it only work against CAS or does it help against fighters and strategic bombers as well? The air superiority bonuses can be absolutely legal against your entire front if the enemy has enough fighters in the sky, to the point where CAS seems almost useless if you could instead pump out hundreds more fighters.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

I usually do the same and it works very well. If you make friends with a South American country or take over one of the Allied colonies there it can be even easier, taking a Caribbean port and then attacking anywhere in the Gulf of Mexico or lower East coast. You're also in paratrooper range from there which makes it easier to pick up territory quicky.

There are some dangerous supply issues around Newfoundland (don't take the port near Quebec first) which can be avoided by attacking the southern states.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Fargo Fukes posted:

Paratroopers! Thanks, never thought of that. Operation Market Garden Full of Japanese Peace Lilies here we come.

As this point in your game the Japanese are most likely unable to trade for or produce any meaningful amount of rubber or oil, so it should be easy to out-build them in fighters. In order to prevent an airborne landing on their home islands they need to be able to cover two air zones simultaneously. So you just need to surge in one zone long enough to drop enough paratroopers to secure a port. I didn't even bother with getting a port, you can just take some coastal areas and dig in while you build your own.

Once the port gets to level 4 or 5 then it's game over, you can drop in more and more reinforcements and attack elsewhere to divert their troops and take airbases. Just convert your existing infantry divisions to paratroopers then convert them back after they land (just make sure they're safe and in good supply before you convert them). As soon as you start taking airfields you can move your planes over and get the max air superiority bonuses and watch them melt away.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

spectralent posted:

I want to re-enact D-Day though :saddowns:

Marines were not involved in D-Day ;)

There were some 200 Rangers though, they climbed a cliff and destroyed some German artillery. If you want you can make an infantry unit that's a mix of Marines and mountaineers, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to deploy more than a few of those.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Those are almost definitely going to be addressed in the free patch that will accompany it. The announcement looks more like a description of what the paid features will be.

Request lend lease is great for single player. If the AI starts lend leasing among themselves then that would make a huge difference.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-south-africa-together-for-victory.979679/

New dev diary for South Africa. Also of note, the production cost of building forts will now be dynamic, starting out cheap and growing exponentially. I think this is a very good change, especially for hasty fallback lines or large border defenses.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

If anyone is interested in trying multiplayer, even if you've never played MP before, we could use more people in our weekly game, Sunday 3-6pm EST. We're getting to the exciting bits now so it's the perfect time to hop in. Discord link in this thread

Currently it's early 1940 (or late 39 I can't remember), things are happening somewhat historically except the Axis and Comintern are both in even stronger positions compared to history. France is on the verge of falling to the Glitchkrieg (yes I went there), China capitulated to Japan and what wasn't annexed is now a puppet state, and Singapore, Ceylon, the Dutch East Indies and more have fallen. Poland, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, and the Netherlands are now Lebensraum for the Ubermenschen, and Yugoslavia and Albania belong to Mussolini.

Meanwhile Turkey is now a glorious proletariat utopia, also Finland and Iran have been annexed by the USSR. Republican Spain defeated the Nationalists and joined the Comintern, so the current map of Europe is a Fascist sandwich with Communist bread.

The Comintern is still at peace, having signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with Germany, and the USA is still a couple years out from joining the war. But there is plenty of action going on right now in India, China and France, plus I heard rumors that the South African Navy was about to single-handedly wipe out the IJN.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Raenir Salazar posted:

Can naval units, particularly capital ships be upgraded? Googling implies "No" which seems baffling to me; it makes them really not worth it for smaller nations if you can't keep them up to date no?

My Victoria II MP game is converting to Hoi4, I have 60,000 points to spend on my navy based on IC costs; what's better 8 Battlecruisers or 133 Submarines? I'm assuming it's the latter if I'm all of South America?



How much does the Meta change in MP? In terms of Division composition, doctrines, and so on? I had a game as Germany where I was forced to invade the USSR early because they invaded Poland in 1937 and only managed to push him out because of him misclicking.

No they can't be upgraded. As far as BCs vs submarines, that depends on what your plans are. Early submarines will be eaten alive by patrolling screens, but they can do some damage to convoys if they're not being harassed. 8 Battlecruisers can make a big difference in a fleet battle, but you'd need an actual fleet to go along with them. So if you think you have the capability and the desire to build a fleet to rival whoever you may be at war with, the BCs would probably be more useful. Submarines are less useful if the enemy fleet has been destroyed or contained.

MP meta from what I've seen is similar to SP, the good doctrines are still good and the bad ones are still bad, you just need to coordinate more with allies to try and complement each other. It depends on what country you're playing. And be ready for anything at all times, as you experienced.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

When I played as AH, Franz Ferdinand never died but the war started anyway when AH declared on Serbia. I didn't get any choices in the matter, it was just suddenly "oh hey I declared war".

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

It is also pretty weird when you have an airbase that is located at the intersection of 3-4 air zones. Like trying to cover the oceans around the Philippines, you have to split your squadrons up to cover them all or concentrate in 1 area.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

I personally like the naval game the way it is, decent depth but without requiring excessive attention from the player, but here is my wishlist:
- A naval intelligence mapmode, to show recent traffic that you've observed one way or the other, with color-coded/illustrated convoy traffic to differentiate between enemy/neutral, lend-lease, resources, supply, troop transports. Also last observed task forces with bearing and size estimates.
- Reserve fleets, kind of like how ground/air units automatically reinforce, you make a reserve fleet and they automatically split off ships to replace ones that have been lost. You can already create new ships to go directly to different task forces and that's awesome up until the war starts and you have a billion destroyers in different groups you need to replace.
-- An option to set current fleets to return to port and become reserve fleets once they've lost a certain number of ships.
-- Naval task force reinforcement priorities, just like air and ground units.
- Slightly different unit icons, to differentiate more from ground units at first glance when you're zoomed out (like a circle instead of a rectangle).
- An army support mission type. This would automatically provide naval artillery support to troops in contact, plus air support from CVs for scouting and CAS. Right now you can do this but it requires lots of clicking and micromanaging.
- Better feedback regarding blockading ports from supplies & resources

Also PSA you can do naval recon right now, if you have air coverage, radar coverage, or ships patrolling (use DDs or SSs on do not engage patrol orders), then go to naval map mode and hover your cursor over the sector. Not the best but it's better than nothing.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

New dev diary https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-together-for-audio.985592/

In-game music playlist and moddable voice overs. Very nice!

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

It would probably be really easy to mod in the voices from Jagged Alliance 2. Playing as Poland would never be the same with Steroid Gontarski leading your armies.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Top Hats Monthly posted:

I guarantee Finland

Yeah I made that mistake once. Only guarantee independence if you're prepared to really defend it.

I'm not sure the AI pays any attention to guarantees anyway, especially when it comes to national focuses that start wars.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Hearts of Iron IV: Victors Getting Together

Together for Victoria's Secret, Geopolitical Dating DLC

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Ugh still can't set racial policies or conduct genocide, my immersion is ruined. *Polishes totenkopf pins, puts on replica SS uniform to go outside and play airsoft*

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Raenir Salazar posted:

3. I'm pretty convinced that the efficiency of small arms production needs something like a 100% boost. I don't think most countries in the war had problems supply rifles; but as Britain I was constantly hurting once the war was going underway if I also wanted to build other types of units.

Infantry equipment isn't just rifles though, it's a combination of basically everything, boots, radios, mortars, shovels, etc. I'm sure it takes a lot of industrial capacity to produce all of that in large quantities if you consider some of these armies consist of several hundred thousand front line combatants.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Raenir Salazar posted:

I wonder if anyone is working on a 1984 mod. It feels like to me that you honestly could get the world into an equilibrium wherein the war can never end.

Funny you should say that, I'm making a 1984 mod and I'm not far from putting a good playable version on the workship. It's going to be balanced for MP but should be playable for SP.





I'm not keen on the war lasting forever though so in the mid-90s there are focuses you can unlock that increase your attacking percentages by a pretty substantial amount. At the same time there are cloning technologies you can get that give you huge monthly manpower growth. So this should keep the war going but make the front lines much more dynamic.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 8, 2017

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Inf rushes work if you're Germany pre-39 against AI, or if you're China/Raj and have the expendable manpower. Other than that armor and air power is extremely important. CAS is also useful but is more of a situational thing IMO. Overwhelming air superiority doesn't care about the size of an army, it will cut their effectiveness in half and slow them down. Naval shore bombardment is also a thing. Really this game does a pretty good job capturing the full spectrum. Try to inf rush in MP and you'll get eaten alive.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Ainsley McTree posted:

I haven't played this game in a few patches but is this still the best (or at least, a surprisingly useful) naval strategy, or did they make it so that you have to actually build other ships now?

Nah, it's still not perfect but DD swarms will get eaten alive by other boats. The only problem I think is that you end up building swarms of DDs anyway because they all get destroyed so quickly in fleet battles.

They are still good though since they draw fire and are so cheap to replace. While your DDs are getting shot to pieces your other ships can fight at full org and deal more overall damage. (If I'm understanding the mechanics correctly)

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

I put my 1984 mod on the workshop if you nerds want to try it out: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=851283534

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Fuligin posted:

This is a very clever idea. I'd love a goon game of it.

Join the mapgoons discord and we'll probably play it sometime https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3773305

In other news, it turns out that John Hurt died today. Coincidence?!

:smith:

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Ha, I've never seen the Hess steals the Hindenburg event before.

I made sure to pay homage to this event in my 1984 mod. A senile old man claiming to be the deputy Führer steals the Hindenburg only to be intercepted by an aging Amelia Earhart, who then either crashes into the airship or shoots it down.

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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Please enjoy this insightful comment somebody left for my 1984 mod on steam workshop.

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