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Oracle posted:if 'They' want your DNA, they can get it. That's really not a good argument for putting your DNA on a database that enables law enforcement to discover that it is your loved ones' DNA that they want.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:01
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Oh dear me posted:That's really not a good argument for putting your DNA on a database that enables law enforcement to discover that it is your loved ones' DNA that they want. If my 'loved ones' (genetic distant relatives I likely do not even know) are serial killers/rapists I'm not really feeling that warm 'blood is thicker than water' glow. That said, most of the big three DNA testing companies have extensive terms of use for law enforcement, mainly that they need to have a subpoena from a judge to do that kind of search. I've posted this elsewhere in this thread and others, but just for the sake of completeness: Ancestry's is here 23&Me's is here FTDNA's You'll notice FTDNA's is a bit different from the near-identical boilerplate of the previous two; that's because unlike Ancestry and 23&Me, FTDNA allows uploads from other testing companies. You'll also notice they specifically state that the only crimes they allow uploading of DNA for is murder rape and abduction, as well as the identifying of human remains. Gedmatch until recently tended to the same boilerplate as the Big 3 above. Then their owners decided, without public notice or debate, to allow an assault suspect's DNA to be uploaded as law enforcement argued that the perpetrator was very likely to strike again and possibly kill someone this time, the attack had been particularly brutal and on an old woman (organist?) at a church, and that it was only luck that it wasn't a homicide. Without a warrant.This really caused an uproar among the genetic genealogy community as it was not included in their terms of service and was done without advance warning debate or consent. Lots of people decided they weren't going to continue to participate, then Gedmatch was sold to a third party. You can see my post about it further back in the thread. I did remove my DNA from gedmatch as a result of that sale, because combined with the previous 'exemption' I no longer felt they'd live up to the terms they'd agreed to, or would feel free to change them in the future. Gedmatch was a really cool resource for a really long time and I'll miss it and I understand why the two elderly owners sold it as it had gotten too big for them, but they lost that trust. That said, its up to you whether that off chance you're related to a violent criminal is worth finding out what you're looking to find out. If you actually are a violent criminal, in a witness protection program, or have other unsavory elements in your past that you fear coming to light as a result, I would strongly suggest you probably don't want to test. If you're worried you'll be accidentally identified or confused with such, statistics are in your favor. I think I've only heard of one false positive and that was waaaay back in testing's infancy, was human error not testing based, and was quickly rectified and led to terms of use such as those above. However there have been dozens of exonerations via the Innocence Project of people in prison for violent crimes they did NOT commit.
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Jan 15, 2020 22:11
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I mean, could be next time they want your or your cousin's DNA for protesting ICE or some other poo poo that can vaguely qualify as terrorism. In other news, I now have ~74k microfilm scans (~91 GB) of accountings re my hometown downloaded. Still probably some 50k to go, gonna take a while to sort through this when all is said and done lol
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Jan 16, 2020 04:52
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Krankenstyle posted:I mean, could be next time they want your or your cousin's DNA for protesting ICE or some other poo poo that can vaguely qualify as terrorism. They're probably not going to bother with DNA for something like that though.
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Jan 16, 2020 05:49
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Emily Spinach posted:They're probably not going to bother with DNA for something like that though. the DOJ disagrees: DNA Analysis for "Minor" Crimes: A Major Benefit for Law Enforcement
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Jan 16, 2020 06:38
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Krankenstyle posted:the DOJ disagrees: DNA Analysis for "Minor" Crimes: A Major Benefit for Law Enforcement It's great because instead of having to do actual detective work to follow someone they have other reasons to suspect of a crime or get a real clear pattern they can just take random stuff from a crime scene and a partial match of the DNA there with your absolutely fully sequenced DNA which is provably yours gives them probable cause and puts you at risk of jail and being pressured into a confession or a plea bargain for a crime you didn't commit.
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Jan 16, 2020 06:55
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Krankenstyle posted:the DOJ disagrees: DNA Analysis for "Minor" Crimes: A Major Benefit for Law Enforcement Oh for fucks sake, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Jan 16, 2020 06:56
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Emily Spinach posted:Oh for fucks sake, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Police in the Weimar Republic collected lots of data (considering the period) on undesirables like homosexuals. When the Nazis took over, guess what they did with it.
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Jan 16, 2020 07:03
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Zopotantor posted:Police in the Weimar Republic collected lots of data (considering the period) on undesirables like homosexuals. When the Nazis took over, guess what they did with it. Right, I guess I'm just still in the mindset of DNA being too much effort to analyze compared to other types of data. But of course the point of this conversation is that it isn't.
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Jan 16, 2020 13:46
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Krankenstyle posted:I mean, could be next time they want your or your cousin's DNA for protesting ICE or some other poo poo that can vaguely qualify as terrorism. Krankenstyle posted:the DOJ disagrees: DNA Analysis for "Minor" Crimes: A Major Benefit for Law Enforcement That article is 1) From 2006 2) referring to convicted criminals whose samples are in the CODIS database, not genealogy databases The article also notes England has been doing DNA analysis for all crimes since 1995. Again, no huge uptick in DNA related false convictions for crimes. Its been 14 years. False DNA convictions are vanishingly rare. quote:It's great because instead of having to do actual detective work to follow someone they have other reasons to suspect of a crime or get a real clear pattern they can just take random stuff from a crime scene and a partial match of the DNA there with your absolutely fully sequenced DNA which is provably yours gives them probable cause and puts you at risk of jail and being pressured into a confession or a plea bargain for a crime you didn't commit. quote:But a hit doesn’t mean the case is cleared — arrest, prosecution, and conviction must follow. NIJ is working with the sites to come up with ways to move beyond hits to successfully prosecuting offenders. This effort requires a balancing of resources among the law enforcement officers who collect the DNA evidence, the forensic specialists who analyze the samples, and the detectives who make arrests based on CODIS hits. Enhancing the ability of jurisdictions to generate CODIS-acceptable samples and ensuring that investigators use that evidence to build cases against offenders will go a long way toward maximizing the potential of DNA as a crime-solving tool. This article which warns of the potential for misuse of DNA lists two possible cases of mistaken identity based on DNA samples: quote:At times, DNA evidence has been misused or misunderstood, leading to miscarriages of justice. A man with Parkinson’s disease who was unable to walk more than a few feet without assistance was convicted of a burglary based on a partial DNA profile match. His lawyer insisted on more DNA tests, which exonerated him. In 2011, Adam Scott’s DNA matched with a sperm sample taken from a rape victim in Manchester—a city Scott, who lived more than 200 miles away, had never visited. Non-DNA evidence subsequently cleared Scott. The mixup was due to a careless mistake in the lab, in which a plate used to analyze Scott’s DNA from a minor incident was accidentally reused in the rape case. If anything, DNA evidence results in LESS wrongful convictions. quote:Police in the Weimar Republic collected lots of data (considering the period) on undesirables like homosexuals. When the Nazis took over, guess what they did with it. And yet I see noone freaking out about how Big Brother Is Here every time someone posts a link to any social media site from their cel phone. Is there a potential for misuse? Absolutely. Just like there's a potential for misuse with literally every other avenue for investigation at our disposal currently. But DNA is not some magic indefensible kamehameha Go Directly To Jail card the police can play to 'git' you. Its a lot more important to elect politicians that are going to defend your rights than to rail against the evils of technology because that cat is already out of the bag. Oracle fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 16:48
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Doublepost
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Jan 16, 2020 16:49
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Oracle posted:And every single one of us carries a tracking device in our pockets at all times No we don't, unless we choose to. And even then we don't carry devices that track our family.
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Jan 16, 2020 18:07
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Oh dear me posted:No we don't, unless we choose to. And even then we don't carry devices that track our family. And again, see: Facebook.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:14
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That article was just a random one to show that governments do indeed like DNA for non-violent crimes. I'm just saying there will always be that pressure from law enforcement to gather more data about the populace, and whatever data they have will be used regardless of the purpose it was gathered. Facebook is trash, and there are a lot of people talking about the effects of social media and personal data "sharing", see for example the tech bubble thread in yospos or the cyberpunk dystopia thread in cspam. I log on fb perhaps once a week to check if I got party invites & disabled its access to my location long ago, which is pretty much modern day luddism lol Once your data is out there, it's out there. You can't take it back. But yeah, it's a choice you have to make yourself. As with anything, you have to weigh the pros and cons — but you need to be aware of the cons for the choice to be informed. That's all I wanted to say 
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Jan 17, 2020 03:44
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I have an ancestor who was named as a cavalrist in 1717, but who is otherwise very sparsely sourced (I don't even know when he was born or died), so it was pretty cool to see that FamilySearch have digitized a bunch of records on the cavalry: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/416163 It'd be fantastic to find him in there, but there are 3 regiments listed and I don't feel like looking through all the images (there must be 3000+)... So I've been looking into how the Danish cavalry was organized at the time: The upkeep for the cavalry came directly from the farmers. That is, each cavalrist lived on a royally owned farm & the copyholder who did the farming also fed him and the horse. In return, these copyholders were free from taxes, corvée, etc. But which farms were under which regiments? I just went through all the laws that were issued regarding the cavalry 1670–1720 and found bupkis about which areas were involved. I suppose some lower level of administration did the actual allocations & I'll have to dig into what departments existed, what their archives look like, and what not. That's gonna be a real work, might be easier to go through the images after all 
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Jan 17, 2020 18:06
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Krankenstyle posted:I have an ancestor who was named as a cavalrist in 1717, but who is otherwise very sparsely sourced (I don't even know when he was born or died), so it was pretty cool to see that FamilySearch have digitized a bunch of records on the cavalry: Could you try making a call or email to your local university and finding some history professor who specializes in 16th c. military organization or something and just ask? Also! Swedish repository is free for the weekend woo! quote:From today and through Sunday, January 19, we are giving free access to everyone who wants to try ArkivDigital. Take this opportunity to learn more about your ancestors and family and discover your own unique history.
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Jan 17, 2020 18:44
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Oh yeah, here's an ask the archivist service I'm gonna try 
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Jan 17, 2020 19:00
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Ahh gently caress just discovered a syncing fuckup in my genealogy folder, there's a bunch of empty folders  Hopefully my offsite time machine backup will save me but I won't be able to check until tomorrow 
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Jan 18, 2020 04:04
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Oh hey Krankenstyle this just came online at Ancestryquote:Denmark, Church Records, 1812-1918
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Jan 22, 2020 21:36
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Well, scanned microfilms of parish registers have been available for almost two decades. What's new about this is that National Archives made a deal with Ancestry that they could take new high resolution photos directly from the parish registers in return for transcribing them and making the photos/transcriptions freely accessible for Danish users. There have been partial transcriptions available here and there, but this is supposed to be complete (especially the arrivals/departures are great to have searchable!). This is part of the preparations for a larger project called Link-Lives that intends to match all church/census records of Danes for the period 1787–1968, the former being the year of the first proper census, the latter being the creation of the Central Person Register (our national ID, everyone has a number similar to social security). Open access will of course only be possible for older records, but in theory you would be able to trace any living Dane back to those ancestors who were living in 1787. It's still in very early days, but I might actually get to work on some of it through my job! https://link-lives.dk/en/link-lives-a-research-project/ Also, I saved my genealogy folder! 
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Jan 22, 2020 22:23
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Krankenstyle posted:Well, scanned microfilms of parish registers have been available for almost two decades. What's new about this is that National Archives made a deal with Ancestry that they could take new high resolution photos directly from the parish registers in return for transcribing them and making the photos/transcriptions freely accessible for Danish users. There have been partial transcriptions available here and there, but this is supposed to be complete (especially the arrivals/departures are great to have searchable!). drat that's awesome. Why can't we be this freaking awesome. Also yay! God I'd be gutted. I've got backups like everywhere.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:15
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I just found an old obituary for the guy who started my company. Talk about bad luck. In WWI was at Gallipoli until he contracted Typhoid. In WWII he was a civilian who escaped from Malaya on foot but was captured at Singapore and sent to work on the Siam railway. (In between the wars he caught malaria)
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Jan 23, 2020 01:45
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Got Hungarian in your family tree? The Hungarian National Archives has pdfs that provide Hungarian-Latin and Hungarian-German translations, Hungarian vital record headers, and Hungarian equivalents of Latin names. Might help someone here with research.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:48
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Newspapers.com is free all Presidents’ Day weekend, because uh... presidents... read the newspaper? Appear in them a lot? I dunno whatever go search for all those juicy gossip columns about your relatives great-aunt coming to visit (or your drunk rear end great great grandpa getting fined for stealing firewood).
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Feb 14, 2020 03:16
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hmmm it doesnt appear to work for me  or maybe im too early? also im up to 110k microfilm scans (141GB) lol Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Feb 14, 2020 |
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Feb 14, 2020 15:07
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Krankenstyle posted:hmmm it doesnt appear to work for me Ah it might be for people subscribed to all access in ancestry already. Or just Americans. Let me know if you have specific requests and I’ll see what I can do.
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Feb 15, 2020 05:14
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no worries. i dont have anything specific to search for, only wanted to have fun with strange keywords
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Feb 15, 2020 14:29
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Any ideas for searching for Illinois State prison records? My mother is onto the scent of the reasons for why one of my great grandmothers never talked about their families much, and I loves me some dish
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Feb 17, 2020 07:55
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Bilirubin posted:Any ideas for searching for Illinois State prison records? Here's a collection that will probably greatly interest you: Register of Illinois Prison Records quote:This database provides an index for the Registers of Prisoners received at the Illinois State Penitentiary at Alton Prison (1833-1841; 1847-1858), the Illinois State Penitentiary at Joliet (ca. 1858-1901) and Southern Illinois penitentiary at Chester (Menard) (ca. 1865-1908). A complete history of Illinois prisons is accessible here Registers provide information about the prisoner, including personal history and family history.
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Mar 5, 2020 14:22
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MyHeritage is offering free access to Irish records for St. Patrick's day (sorry, 'Irish-American Heritage Month') until March 22nd. You'll have to join to access the 'free' records but you can just cancel after your two weeks is up.
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Mar 5, 2020 14:24
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I did the 23andme dealie. To the surprise of nobody, it came back incredibly white.
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Mar 5, 2020 14:50
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Randaconda posted:I did the 23andme dealie. To the surprise of nobody, it came back incredibly white. Sup glow in the dark buddy. I did have .1% undefined and .1% native though! Maybe that family story was right. I'm also getting 1.6% southern Italian which doesn't add up to any of my research, though rumors of Swiss back somewhere might account for it.
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Mar 5, 2020 15:18
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I wouldn't put too much faith in the smaller percentages. From what I hear those are a crap shoot at best and will differ a lot between testers
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Mar 5, 2020 17:16
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Krankenstyle posted:I wouldn't put too much faith in the smaller percentages. From what I hear those are a crap shoot at best and will differ a lot between testers yeah that's the running joke. I think anything less than 2% is considered random noise.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:03
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Oh right  I just now found a reference in an 1851 book that there exists a 1598 letter from 12 named Swedes (one of whom is the guy with the mill I think I've mentioned) regarding a relative of theirs who was sentenced to death. The book states that they each signed with their house mark, so I'm trying to find out where this letter is kept now. It would be pretty neat to see a direct ancestor's 422 year old signature
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Mar 6, 2020 19:00
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Also, regarding my Alsatian musketeer, I've found a family in Kirchheim unter Tech (under Württemberg, then seat of govt. for Elsaß-Lorraine afaict) via geneanet that could be his. He was born circa 1735, but annoyingly, the pages from the baptismal register are all hosed up for the period 1727–38: http://archives.bas-rhin.fr/detail-document/ETAT-CIVIL-C239-P3-R155983#visio/page:ETAT-CIVIL-C239-P3-R155983-1589380 
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Mar 6, 2020 19:12
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Oracle posted:Sup glow in the dark buddy. I did have .1% undefined and .1% native though! Maybe that family story was right. I got British, German/French, and Scandinavian, with .2 percent Native American, .8 percent West African, with a little bit of Southern European and "Broadly European." so yes foreverial honkeytized EDIT: Just checked, 98.8 percent white lol just lol Randaconda fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 20:30
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I'm at the absolute minimum 99.2% Scandinavian/Nordic (even German is less than half a percent). Depending on the remaining 2 sets of great5-grandparents I have yet to identify, it's likely at least 99.8% is there a but it's a white loaf of bread
Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 21:11
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Oracle posted:Here's a collection that will probably greatly interest you: Register of Illinois Prison Records Many thanks! Off to do some hunting around
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Mar 9, 2020 03:44
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My people spent a 1500 years tending sheep in Scotland and it shows in my DNA results. It's cold and lonely on the moors so yeah, they probably did more than tend.
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Mar 9, 2020 14:38
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