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EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



Gendal posted:

Been playing with my Rift since it arrived and pretty much every game makes me very mildly nauseous, even games like Defense Grid 2. As long as the camera is stationary it's a very mild sense, and I can actually power through it without repercussions, but eventually I get tired of the feeling and quit playing before I actually want to. Games which do move the camera without me provoke a much greater sense of nausea and will wreck the rest of my day if I don't discontinue the usage immediately.

This is in direct contrast to the Vive, which as long as the camera didn't move without me, never once made me feel even a tiny bit of discomfort from motion sickness.

The Vive headset isn't nearly as comfortable as the Rift in terms of fit and weight, but I will take that over mild motion sickness anyday.

My only theories are that I am usually standing with Vive whereas the Rift is usually sitting and/or the FOV which is a bit greater on the Vive. Framerate is 90fps everytime I check, but I have to peek out of the headset on the monitor to do so. Oculus doesn't have a low framerate warning that I can find.

Fiddle with the IPD adjustment slider a little. I did that the other day when I had some time and moving it a bit to the right seemed to ease up some work on my eyes and didn't affect the clarity much if at all.

It's all about finding the Sweet Spot on the Rift as it is much bigger, but ends up making your eyes work harder if it is off by just a bit it seems.

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Ludicrous Gibs!
Jan 21, 2002

I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am.

Cojawfee posted:

http://augmentl.io/on-oculus-valve-...ionist-history/

This whole Alan Yates thing has been pretty interesting. He's always been an anti-oculus troll but I guess he completely forgot that Valve had no intention of making a consumer VR headset. If Oculus hadn't come along, we wouldn't be talking about VR right now. It was a concerted effort between a lot of different players.

Yeah, as much as people would like to fit the whole Valve/Oculus rivalry into a good vs evil situation, the reality is much more complex (as realities tend to be). It's absolutely true that the Vive would not exist had Oculus not gotten the ball rolling 4 years ago. But the Rift wouldn't be what it is without Valve's early VR research. Honestly, I'm tempted to view the whole thing as a wash. Steam is a near-monopoly, too, and the fact that it's a monopoly that has mostly benefited gamers is the reason Valve tends to get a pass. But then, arbitrarily restricting content from headsets that could easily run it like Oculus Home is doing is anathema to the philosophy that the PC arena has operated under since time immemorial. It's a sticky situation.

For my part, I keep seesawing back and forth re: which one to buy. Vive has the more complete experience right now, that's a fact. I would hope that Oculus is watching how popular room-scale experiences are turning out to be and planning accordingly, but there's no way to know that for sure. In the meantime, the Rift is much more comfortable, and its screen is sharper and brighter.

This is the first time I've entertained being an early adopter, so I'm not used to this conundrum. I feel like there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to end up with the VR equivalent of HD-DVD.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


Yams Fan

If you're not sure at this point then definitely hold off. There's just not much to do yet.

Ludicrous Gibs!
Jan 21, 2002

I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am.

Lemming posted:

If you're not sure at this point then definitely hold off. There's just not much to do yet.

I may just wind up doing that; what's keeping me indecisive is a) I've been watching this industry develop for the last 4 years with bated breath, and b) an irrational feeling that VR needs my support to survive these early days, dammit! As if the backing of several multibillion dollar companies isn't enough.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.


If you don't need it now, wait for touch to release if you're looking to purchase based solely on comparative specs.

It won't end up like hd-dvd because this tech will iterate much quicker.

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.

There is a good chance that Rift and Vive hardware will be supported in games for a long time, even if new hardware comes out. So long as VR games keep coming, which seems like a given now.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.


TomR posted:

There is a good chance that Rift and Vive hardware will be supported in games for a long time, even if new hardware comes out. So long as VR games keep coming, which seems like a given now.

I don't doubt it, but I also doubt that there will become one defacto winner like in the hd-dvd v blu-ray ordeal.

At least I hope not, more HMD's, more competition, more choice. That's the best for us. Making a standard VR interface (like OpenVR but maybe actually, ya know, open source) would be the best way.

Gendal
Aug 3, 2007


EdEddnEddy posted:

Fiddle with the IPD adjustment slider a little.
That's a good idea. I measured it myself and it was 59mm. On the Vive I set it to the minimum which is 60, so it's easy enough to try cranking it up to that on the Rift and seeing what happens.

Wanderer89
Oct 12, 2009


Gendal posted:

That's a good idea. I measured it myself and it was 59mm. On the Vive I set it to the minimum which is 60, so it's easy enough to try cranking it up to that on the Rift and seeing what happens.

It took me a good week or so of testing to finally find my sweet spot, had it at like 64 initially, but have left it at 68 for weeks now, seems just right.

Poetic Justice
Jun 17, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 10 days!


Ludicrous Gibs! posted:

Yeah, as much as people would like to fit the whole Valve/Oculus rivalry into a good vs evil situation, the reality is much more complex (as realities tend to be). It's absolutely true that the Vive would not exist had Oculus not gotten the ball rolling 4 years ago. But the Rift wouldn't be what it is without Valve's early VR research. Honestly, I'm tempted to view the whole thing as a wash. Steam is a near-monopoly, too, and the fact that it's a monopoly that has mostly benefited gamers is the reason Valve tends to get a pass. But then, arbitrarily restricting content from headsets that could easily run it like Oculus Home is doing is anathema to the philosophy that the PC arena has operated under since time immemorial. It's a sticky situation.

For my part, I keep seesawing back and forth re: which one to buy. Vive has the more complete experience right now, that's a fact. I would hope that Oculus is watching how popular room-scale experiences are turning out to be and planning accordingly, but there's no way to know that for sure. In the meantime, the Rift is much more comfortable, and its screen is sharper and brighter.

This is the first time I've entertained being an early adopter, so I'm not used to this conundrum. I feel like there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to end up with the VR equivalent of HD-DVD.

Like others have said, it's best to wait until at least Touch comes out to make choice. Also, I've seen a couple people say that, but the Vive actually has the brighter screen, although how important that is is debatable. Since the screens aren't competing with background lighting, your eyes adapt to whatever brightness the headsets are at pretty quickly, although some people do prefer the brighter Vive screen.

Poetic Justice fucked around with this message at May 26, 2016 around 23:09

Kid
Jun 18, 2004

Gotcha

Warbird posted:

Can you elaborate on this? What PCI usb card?
Sure, its the Inateck KTU3FR-2O2I

I was having intermittent tracking issues using both USB2 and USB3 on my motherboard, have not experienced it since I switched to the card. The vive is the only thing I have plugged into it.

Amazon Link

Steam Support Article

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


Yams Fan

Poetic Justice posted:

Like others have said, it's best to wait until at least Touch comes out to make choice. Also, I've seen a couple people say that, but the Vive actually has the brighter screen, although how important that is is debatable. Since the screens aren't competing with background lighting, your eyes adapt to whatever brightness the headsets are at pretty quickly, although some people do prefer the brighter Vive screen.

Yeah, this is part of the reason why it's pretty important to try them out yourself. Apparently the god rays on the Rift are better/worse for some people, the Vive is sharper/blurrier for some people, one or the other is more comfortable based on your head shape, and so on and so forth. These are things that you really, truly should be trying out for yourself before making a decision. For example, even if you only want to play sim games, if you wear glasses and you can't fit a Rift on your head with them on, then buying one will be a waste of time and money. But other people can fit their glasses in and it's fine! You can't know without trying yourself.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.


Even in my biased rear end head I have a hard time seeing how the Vive could ever be more comfortable than the rift. That being said the difference isn't as big a chasm as some would make it to be and both can be worn for hours on end (on my head anyway) with no issue. The issues would be:

-Do you wear big glasses (the rift is worse for glasses)
-Do you need more clarity (The vive is worse for clarity)
-Do you need FOV (the rift is worse for FOV)
-Do you want the most access to titles (The vive is worse due to unreliable Home access)
-Do you want motion controls (If yes then wait for touch, if no the rift is cheaper because in part the lack of motion controls)
-Is your head freakishly big or small (The vive has a slightly wider range of IPD adjustments)
-Do you want to use your own headphones (The Vive doesn't have built in headphones so you will have to use your own)
-Do you care at all about company philosophies (Could be argued they are both going for monopoly in their own way)

And ultimately of course, trying each out is really the best way to go about it.

Knifegrab fucked around with this message at May 26, 2016 around 23:24

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


Yams Fan

Knifegrab posted:

Even in my biased rear end head I have a hard time seeing how the Vive could ever be more comfortable than the rift.

Some people have really, really big heads, or a higher IPD

Edit: glasses fit better too

Edit2: or they sweat a lot and want to be able to clean the strap which can get totally soaked, not that I would know

s.i.r.e.
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.


So what the hell happened to the GTAV Vive thing? I need it.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.


s.i.r.e. posted:

So what the hell happened to the GTAV Vive thing? I need it.

Still being developed but the guy isn't releasing it yet. There is another one being released called GTA:VR but it is kind of a rip off that uses vorpx, the good one that you see all the gifs for is not relying on VorpX if I recall correctly and is quite an overhaul.

Gendal
Aug 3, 2007


Knifegrab posted:

-Is your head freakishly big or small (The vive has a slightly wider range of IPD adjustments)
The Rift goes down to 59, the Vive goes down to ~60 (mine says 60.7). Not sure about the upper range since I am self measured at 59mm though recently I started calling that measurement into question. Obviously I should get off my arse and call my optometrist.

Ludicrous Gibs!
Jan 21, 2002

I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am.

Poetic Justice posted:

Like others have said, it's best to wait until at least Touch comes out to make choice. Also, I've seen a couple people say that, but the Vive actually has the brighter screen, although how important that is is debatable. Since the screens aren't competing with background lighting, your eyes adapt to whatever brightness the headsets are at pretty quickly, although some people do prefer the brighter Vive screen.

I'm just going by what I observed with the demo unit I tried, relative to my memories of the Rift 4 days earlier. The Rift did seem sharper and brighter than the Vive, which I observed by how immersed I felt in the non-interactive demo scenes on each headset. Though I might have a more favorable view of the Vive's optics if they'd had a cutout town too (seriously, that was so loving . VR board games are coming!).

Poetic Justice
Jun 17, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 10 days!


Ludicrous Gibs! posted:

I'm just going by what I observed with the demo unit I tried, relative to my memories of the Rift 4 days earlier. The Rift did seem sharper and brighter than the Vive, which I observed by how immersed I felt in the non-interactive demo scenes on each headset. Though I might have a more favorable view of the Vive's optics if they'd had a cutout town too (seriously, that was so loving . VR board games are coming!).

Weird! Well, like I said the brightness I don't think is a massive difference unless you do an immediate side-by-side comparison. I am really excited for VR board games to come out too, I think they will be badass in VR. There is something about little miniature things that tickle my brain in VR.

Poetic Justice
Jun 17, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 10 days!


-doublepost

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


Yams Fan

Chronos spoiler

There's a part where you get tiny and are running along a bookshelf and you fight tiny wind-up soldier enemies and it's really great.

Poetic Justice
Jun 17, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 10 days!


Lemming posted:

Chronos spoiler

There's a part where you get tiny and are running along a bookshelf and you fight tiny wind-up soldier enemies and it's really great.

Haha, yeah I loved that part and it was certainly unexpected. I think I'm finally getting towards the end of the game, and suprisingly I do see myself restarting and playing it on a harder difficulty before long.

monkey
Jan 20, 2004

by zen death robot


Yams Fan

Cojawfee posted:

That would be pretty cool if they could get decent hand tracking. I think my ideal tracking would be something that could just track your hands in room scale, like a camera in the lighthouse base station that could get an overall idea of where your hands are and whether they are open or closed. And then a leap motion type deal on the headset that allows detailed gesture tracking for when you can actually see your hands. So I could grab an object and move my hand off screen but still be able to hold or throw that object with the less detailed tracking. But then I could also look at it and do detailed some detailed interaction. Maybe have a bracelet or something that securely attaches to your hand for accurate positional and just use the camera for seeing if your hands are open or closed.

Bracelets that are tracked with lighthouse, or constellation, or something non-line of sight like sixense, or whatever, with three low res / high FPS cameras on the bracelet spaced about 120 degrees apart for accurate hand gestures regardless of where your hands are, even if they are occluded from trackers or outside your POV. Plus a little onboard processor in the bracelet which does the CV / 3D math independently at a high internal FPS and sends out neat, optimised little data packets. Ankle bracelets would be the same but only need 1 camera.

Edit: Most of all though, what I really want is just a pen. Tiltbrush is great and all, but it's low precision and takes a whole room, just because of the size of the controllers. I want to sculpt 3D models comfortably at my desk in 1:6 scale with fine motor tools like scalpels and spline emitters, then scale them up to do the fine details.

monkey fucked around with this message at May 27, 2016 around 02:05

Hierophant
Oct 21, 2007


Valve claimed about a year ago that they would open up the lighthouse system, but it hasn't happened yet. A pen will be tricky just because it doesn't have any convenient non-co-linear places to put the lighthouse detectors or constellation emitters. The minimum number of detected points is four*, but that will give a very noisy pose estimate, and I've heard that the Vive's driver/firmware requires at least five. This means the pen will need to have some kind of weird offshoots to avoid putting the points in a straight line.

* Four detected points lets you get an unambiguous solution to the PnP problem. OK, so theoretically you could solve for a pose with only three points, and get four possible solutions, and then use the IMU+last pose to choose one.

monkey
Jan 20, 2004

by zen death robot


Yams Fan

Yeah, for lighthouse and most likely constellation also, the pen would need a sort of rapier-like handguard. Sixense method you could theoretically do with a single sensor, but two or three would be better and colinear sensor arrangement wouldn't matter so much.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


Yams Fan

I feel like Touch is the closet you're gonna get to what you want in the near future.

Nalin
Sep 28, 2007



Bleak Gremlin

s.i.r.e. posted:

So what the hell happened to the GTAV Vive thing? I need it.

I've known the dude for a few years now. He is doing it by hooking into DirectX calls directly and running a renderer on another thread that interacts with OpenVR. It currently lacks stereoscopic 3D as you would have to render GTA5 at 180 fps to do it (swapping camera positions each time for each eye). I'm not sure how VorpX does it (is it doing some sort of bad positional warping to make it pseudo-3D?) He's made some good progress on it recently and solved some jitter issues; however, one of his Vive controllers died today so that might delay things some more. It's actually the 2nd time a Vive controller has died for him.

Hierophant
Oct 21, 2007


Vorpx uses the depth buffer to warp one image into a stereo pair.

s.i.r.e.
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.


Nalin posted:

I've known the dude for a few years now. He is doing it by hooking into DirectX calls directly and running a renderer on another thread that interacts with OpenVR. It currently lacks stereoscopic 3D as you would have to render GTA5 at 180 fps to do it (swapping camera positions each time for each eye). I'm not sure how VorpX does it (is it doing some sort of bad positional warping to make it pseudo-3D?) He's made some good progress on it recently and solved some jitter issues; however, one of his Vive controllers died today so that might delay things some more. It's actually the 2nd time a Vive controller has died for him.

So it's basically just in VR, but not in 3D? I understand, you'd need one hell of a loving rig to render GTAV in stereo but drat, I wouldn't mind playing on the ugliest of settings. I'm excited to see his progress.

SwissCM
Apr 23, 2003

Fight the system by not tipping waiters! Not by refusing to eat out!

s.i.r.e. posted:

So it's basically just in VR, but not in 3D? I understand, you'd need one hell of a loving rig to render GTAV in stereo but drat, I wouldn't mind playing on the ugliest of settings. I'm excited to see his progress.

It's kinda in 3D. It's clever in that it's basically a realtime version of what they do for 2D-3D cinema conversions. There's the 2D image, then a depth map is created and a Stereoscopic image is generated from that. It's not perfect and can cause some odd artifacts but the depth map is technically very accurate, being rendered from the game engine itself.

Nalin
Sep 28, 2007



Bleak Gremlin

SwissCM posted:

It's kinda in 3D. It's clever in that it's basically a realtime version of what they do for 2D-3D cinema conversions. There's the 2D image, then a depth map is created and a Stereoscopic image is generated from that. It's not perfect and can cause some odd artifacts but the depth map is technically very accurate, being rendered from the game engine itself.

The dude who is doing the GTA5 stuff isn't doing stereoscopic 3D right now.

Hierophant posted:

Vorpx uses the depth buffer to warp one image into a stereo pair.

So yeah, what we had thought, positional warping. I had suggested positional warping off the depth buffer to him as a possible solution, but that causes all sorts of new problems: you have no idea what is behind the object when you adjust your position, so what do you do with that lack of data? I would bet that VorpX spends a lot of time trying to make that look decent.

w00tazn
Dec 25, 2004
I don't say w00t in real life

SwissCM posted:

It's kinda in 3D. It's clever in that it's basically a realtime version of what they do for 2D-3D cinema conversions. There's the 2D image, then a depth map is created and a Stereoscopic image is generated from that. It's not perfect and can cause some odd artifacts but the depth map is technically very accurate, being rendered from the game engine itself.

Yeah upconverting from depth map to stereo should be fine besides some artifacts where objects occlude other objects or cast shadows on things farther away

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




I think I'd be fine with a non 3d gta.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Pinball in VR is surprisingly cool

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?


Grimey Drawer

Cojawfee posted:

I think I'd be fine with a non 3d gta.

So GTA2?

Hierophant
Oct 21, 2007


Panoramic (but not stereo) imagery feels very weird in VR-- you can tell something is off, but it's not obvious that missing stereo is the problem unless you've had experience diagnosing stereo issues.

Edit: Don't do mono. People will feel that something is wrong even if they can't articulate what.

Hierophant fucked around with this message at May 27, 2016 around 07:35

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


After updating all my drivers, I think my issue was either the Vive/breakout box USB drivers getting borked due to reasons, or me updating to a beta USB driver for my MoBo that mentioned Rift compatibility by name. The tracking seems to be a bit better and the headset actually shows up and doesn't drop mid session anymore. I'm back in.

Randomosity
Sep 21, 2003
My stalker WAS watching me...

The more I play Eve Valkyrie, the more I like it. Matches are filling up more frequently, and I'm having a handful of "Holy poo poo..." VR moments per play session. Tailing an enemy ship, swinging my head around to track him while navigating my ship through some debris, then having another guy come screaming over my other shoulder.

I got SteamVR set up with my Rift this morning. Most of that content seems lackluster, but I'll check out some indie stuff on there I'm sure.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



The AltSpace Reggie Watts event went down like a turd with only like 1 room live with him, and the rest lagging badly as he was "broadcast" to the others. It will be cool once they get the bugs worked out but until then, some of the people I was hanging out with had better jokes and didn't have buffering issues lol.

Also if you got that VR Bundle that was posted earlier this week, most of the games are duds, but I can see Spells N Stuff being a lot of fun with a bunch of players. One hand has you tossing potions for movement which works rather well, and the other is your wand to zap others. Nobody was playing it last night, but if anyone else has it, lets get a game together later this weekend or something.

(If you didn't get it in the bundle though, don't spend $10 on it on steam. It isn't worth that yet at all. If it goes on sale for like $1.99 or something, or they drop some major content patches, then maybe...)

Randomosity posted:

The more I play Eve Valkyrie, the more I like it. Matches are filling up more frequently, and I'm having a handful of "Holy poo poo..." VR moments per play session. Tailing an enemy ship, swinging my head around to track him while navigating my ship through some debris, then having another guy come screaming over my other shoulder.

I got SteamVR set up with my Rift this morning. Most of that content seems lackluster, but I'll check out some indie stuff on there I'm sure.

Have you tried EVE with a Joystick yet? Playing with my X52 is immensely more fun then a Xbox pad. Maybe more for me as I grew up playing flight sims, but I cannot fly or fps on a gamepad like I can with a jstick/kb+mouse.

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BossTweed
Apr 9, 2001


Doctor Rope

StarkRavingMad posted:

Pinball in VR is surprisingly cool

Which game have you been playing? I tried this fanmade thing Future Pinball and it was pretty cool once I got it set up how I wanted. I sorta want to build a pinball controller for it.

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