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haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Newbie VR user post.

I convinced myself to get a Playstation VR, after trying it out for an hour at the Sony showroom. I've been on the fence for a long time, but the cost is low enough and the first wave of content looks deep and sustained enough that I can indulge my curiosity.

FuzzySlippers posted:

That's one of the things Sony figured out. The PSVR sits a little more comfortably and this is especially noticeable for people who can't get a good rift fit I believe.

This is accurate, Sony appears to have almost nailed glasses accommodation. Looking ahead or down is perfect, but looking up more than a little exerted a bit of uncomfortable pressure, which I chalked up to the headset not being fitted right by the assistant and which will hopefully go away at home.

I had no problems using a Rift either (probably a DK2, it was a while ago), for what it's worth.

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haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
I demoed the PSVR. It does what it says on the tin and has no obvious flaws, if you can wrangle a free one from your family go for it.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
We have a PSVR thread now for anyone who wants to mingle with the console plebs: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3790293

US preorders seem to be fully booked but there are some available in other countries if you want to drop a little extra on shipping and a power adapter.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Poetic Justice posted:

Haha isn't that a PS4VR exclusive?

For now, but they always used the coded language that implies the exclusivity would eventually end.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

NRVNQSR posted:

Have they actually announced that? Existing games need a *lot* of optimisation to run at PSVR framerates. Even if they're already solid 60fps - and it sounds like War Thunder isn't - they need to render roughly 4 times as much stuff in VR.

Eh, not really. The PSVR uses a single 1920x1080 screen and can upgrade 60fps to 120 through asynchronous timewarp. You're right that solid 60 is harder than usually 60, but it's not a drastic increase in workload if the game is already close.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

NRVNQSR posted:

You need to render two eye images instead of one, and those images are typically each 1512x1512 - 4.6M pixels total. 1080p is only 2.1M pixels. Unfortunately the lens distortion means that you can't just render directly to the PSVR screen, you have to render to a larger screen and distort it down.

Can I ask where you're getting this info? Not a lot is coming up on Google. I'm not sure I buy that it's *that* much more expensive when Driveclub was able to switch from 1080p30 to VR just by disabling weather and making LOD more aggressive. If you're generalizing from the PC headsets, maybe Sony uses a different lens design and distortion shader that makes more efficient use of the framebuffer.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Fair enough, thanks for explaining.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

StarkRavingMad posted:

Did you only catch the back half of that or something? Brad played it normally first, sitting up. Then they had Dan lay down and they were intentionally moving the camera around to try and make him sick. But yeah, the camera kept breaking tracking so it wasn't possible.

They were trying to make him *not* sick, he found luging while sitting up uncomfortable and couldn't lie down in such a way that the camera could track him in its original position.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
He ate Taco Bell multiple times, he's already lost.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Cojawfee posted:

I think the keyword here is try. How long did you get to try it? When you're getting a demo of something, you rarely get a chance to just stop what you're doing and notice minor issues. On the stream, Jeff said that during all the demos he has had, he never noticed the swimming head tracking. It wasn't until he got a unit to test and when he just sat still and looked around did he notice how bad the tracking is.

I used the headset in several consecutive 5-10 minute sessions. While it's true that I didn't have the time to pause and focus on specific aspects of the tracking, I did do the Ocean Descent experience which is noninteractive and more or less free of motion through the virtual world. I'd like to think I would have noticed it, but it's completely possible I didn't know what to look for or was one of the lucky ones for whom it doesn't cause discomfort.

I'd also believe it depends very much on the environment. We should know more when thousands of people are using them next week.

Thor-Stryker posted:

The military uses the equivalent of a Wii-Mote for controlling the Viewport (TADS/PNVS) on Apache Helicopters, it isn't that great of a system. (And it only costs $6,000+ for each helmet.)

And now for a tenth of the price you can have a phone that does the same thing without having to worry about light/equipment obscuring the sensors.

It was also developed in the 80s, wasn't it? If it's still mostly comparable to a solution from two decades later that's an amazing achievement.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

NRVNQSR posted:

I thought Job Simulator was supposed to do that, but from the Giant Bomb PSVR stream it looks like it does so incredibly badly - to the point where on PSVR the cubicle walls only seem to come up to your waist?

They said on the stream that the PSVR version of Job Sim has been shrunk down from the PC version to compensate for the weaker room scale support. Things have been moved to within arms reach and pushed closer together so you don't ever have to leave your starting spot.

The cubicle walls thing seemed to be a calibration error, they had trouble manually setting the floor height IIRC. It looked right by the time they switched to the auto repair scenario.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Electromax posted:

Or you just have gokarts mounted on stationary hydraulic things you sit in that don't actually move, just give you force feedback or something. The headset handles the rest. Just the next gen of those podracer arcade games.

e: also VR podracing.

They already have something like this at Six Flags- a roller coaster where you wear a VR headset during the ride.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Delta-Wye posted:

I wonder if the 'click' can be reproduced with the haptic feedback system - if it's convincing, it would be a best-of-both-worlds situation.

It can definitely be reproduced with a good enough haptic system, Apple removed physical travel from their laptop trackpads a generation or two back and has been simulating it ever since.



vvvvvv Pressure sensitivity, with some kind of solid-state load cell it looks like.

haveblue fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Oct 11, 2016

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Ludicrous Gibs! posted:

Has anything been said about motion controls for mobile VR? Having a physical presence beyond a pair of floating eyes really takes things to the next level.

Google Daydream will come with a motion controller, although it only seems to sense orientation and not position.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Rastor posted:

PSVR doesn't have a physical IPD adjustment.

Early on Sony was telling developers that there would be a software adjustment which would be stored with each user's PlayStation ID, however, this doesn't seem to have made it into the launch product. Instead Sony is saying that they've made the PSVR lenses in such a way that they have a large "sweet spot" that eliminates the need for an IPD adjustment. There will probably be a lot of people with IPD outside the average range who won't find PSVR comfortable to use (or at least not as convincing).

It does seem to have made it in, it's just buried in the menus somewhere and this reviewer doesn't have a very high opinion of it.

quote:

While PlayStation VR doesn’t have a physical IPD adjustment (to change the distance between the lenses to match a user’s eye spacing), it does have a software IPD adjustment which can help improve clarity and comfort in VR.

You can manually dial in your IPD if you already know it, or you can use the PlayStation Move camera to do an approximate measurement. You’ll find the option under Settings > Devices > PlayStation VR.

The tool works by snapping a stereo image of your eyes as you stand near to the PlayStation VR camera. After taking the photo, the software will attempt to automatically detect the center of your pupils, and you’ll be given the opportunity to fine tune that detection by moving a cursor on each photo of your eye to the exact center. The result will spit out an IPD measurement in millimeters and automatically plug that value into the IPD setting.

In my experience the IPD measurement seemed inaccurate by one or two milimeters, but the UI during the process does warn that it’s an approximate measurement only.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
100 Foot Robot Golf is bad even when not in VR. It's just low-effort in all areas and not in a way that's funny like the name.

Rez is the killer app, it's astonishing.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
That article reminds me of claims that the iPhone was doomed because it didn't have a physical keyboard.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Tom Guycot posted:

This... seems like a bit much to use a gadget. Speaking of though, I never thought about it, but does PSVR even have adjustments for IPD? Isn't it using just one screen like the DK2?

It claims to have software IPD, which is probably just informing the renderer what camera separation to use. It's configured by having the camera take a picture of your face and identifying your pupils on the image, which is kinda neat.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

while I don't understand the term at all, frame pacing is also important(?).

Frame pacing refers to the consistency of the interval between frames. If your game is producing frames exactly once every 16ms, for thousands of frames in a row, you have a rock-solid 60fps and it feels good. If your game mostly hits the 16ms deadline, but every couple of frames one only takes 12 or takes up to 20, you might still be averaging 60fps on paper and in the benchmark tool but it'll feel bad.

haveblue fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Nov 2, 2016

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
You could mitigate the effects of extra lag with reprojection/ASW at the headset end. That's easily within the reach of a modern embedded GPU.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Fooz posted:

That stuff is for framerate, not frame delay. You could possibily use the received frames to project all of the frames farther ahead in time and never show the rendered ones, but you'd be in much deeper artifact territory.

It would make head position/orientation updates more responsive than gameworld updates. Yeah, that might lead to some weirdness, but I'm thinking more about comfort.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Sinners Sandwich posted:

Speaking of Swivel VR games, wasnt the newest Call lf Duty supposed to support VR for the whole campaign? I dont remember hearing any word on that. Did tye graphics hold up on conso,es? Was it a mess?

I don't think it did. On PS4 the only VR feature it had was the Jackal Assault space combat mode, which was released as a free standalone anyway. I never played any other part of it but I understand the graphics were as expected and it's enough of a mess that Titanfall 2 saw an opening and went hard for it.

Enabling VR in Call of Duty with no other changes sounds like a terrible idea :barf:

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
If controller throwing is such a big problem it should have a locking strap like the wiimote.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Ciaphas posted:

She is correct but in the 110 summers of Vegas even with AC not having a ceiling fan is Unfortunate

Play games set in deserts, it'll help with the immersion.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Cojawfee posted:

Was that the one where the guy did "research" by sexually harassing women in VR?

This person's report of being virtually groped in QuiVr, to which the QuiVr devs responded with their anti-harassment ideas.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
The downside of the no-face-pressure halo design is light leakage, especially when wearing glasses. But yeah, one of the Sony execs recently commented on how he was surprised at the lengths of time people would spend using the PSVR. It really is a very comfortable setup.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Zero VGS posted:

Seriously, how easy would it be to make a dog/cat LED collar for Rift and make it show via Guardian?

I'd think occlusion would be a major issue, not just because of their body shape but also fur. Maybe a whole doggy sweater covered in Lighthouse sensors?

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Speaking of Nintendo, they just filed a patent for a Gear-style HMD enclosure for the Switch. This doesn't necessarily mean such a product will ever ship, but it seems to be on their radar.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
It didn't always have those options, there were severe comfort issues with the first public demo before they realized it was important.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

eonwe posted:

I wonder if artificial locomotion options like WASD, joystick movement, etc would feel better if games had a defined hud. I noticed a lot of people said they had issues with running in a game, but if they were in a cockpit they were fine. Maybe if there was a more defined HUD or some UI elements that made it looked like you were wearing a helmet / etc would solve some of those issues?

This is definitely the case and it's an option in the RE7 demo that I found helped a great deal. Lots of games that seem to have huge obtrusive HUDs are doing it for this reason.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Fooz posted:

Seems weird that "be there first, and eventually work" was enough to soak up a third of the income of a huge portion of the whole market. Honestly I'm surprised that software distribution platforms got away with more than 5%.

This is how a whole lot of tech companies got to where they are today, really. Network effects are killer.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Fooz posted:

ASW is basically a software miracle, I'm surprised it was only invented for VR, since I imagine it would work for almost any screen based game too (mouse FPS's might be erratic enough to cause worse artifacts, but I imagine it still beats dropped frames).

Non-VR games don't become unplayable and risk real-life discomfort when they fall below 90fps, it wasn't a problem worth solving when everyone was OK with just living with it or turning down a setting or two.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Feh, that's for plebians. 10K at 120hz.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

SwissCM posted:

Put your dog into VR.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
If someone wanted go whole hog on VR SLI, how hard would it be to set up a two-lane headset cable that plugs into both cards at once so each can feed one eye, then run the cards simultaneously with no attempt to merge their outputs?

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

TerminalSaint posted:

Easy solution to that...

Oculus Drift

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
If you're desperate for RE7VR impressions you can read just about any review, most of them have at least a paragraph about it.

If the demo is any guide, the graphics take a small hit but it's ten times as scary.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
One of the comfort options is a static grid overlaying the world, I found it to help. Normally I'm pretty sensitive but the demo didn't give me much of a problem.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I think you're forgetting the controllers they do have available for PC VR...

Do the PC controllers do positional tracking? I thought Oculus shipped with a stock Xbox pad. And the game wouldn't work with independent one-hand Vive or Touch controls.

Goon please leak me a Statik release date, I've been excited about it forever :unsmith:

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haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
I look forward to experiencing full dive VR in my self-driving flying car (charged from an outlet connected to the local fusion reactor) while traveling to the space elevator for my moon vacation.

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