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How will you be voting in the UKEU Referendum? This poll is closed. |
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| Remain - Keep Britane Strong! |
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328 | 15.40% |
| Leave - Take Are Sovreignity Back! |
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115 | 5.40% |
| Remain - But only because Brexit are crazy |
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506 | 23.76% |
| Leave - But only because the EU is terrible |
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157 | 7.37% |
| Spoiled Ballot - This whole thing is an awful idea |
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61 | 2.86% |
| I'm not going to vote |
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19 | 0.89% |
| I'm not allowed to vote |
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411 | 19.30% |
| Pissflaps |
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533 | 25.02% |
| Total: | 2130 votes | ||
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Social autism (freebie): -50. In referendum news, I'm surprised this hasn't been capitalised on as much as possible: https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/735921383528529920 That's UKIP's home affairs spokeswoman saying that she doesn't know what a post-Brexit visa policy would look like. It's like the Lib Dems' constitutional affairs spokesperson saying that they don't know what Parliament under proportional representation would look like.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:44
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Metrication posted:i wonder what happens if the result of the referendum is a very close vote for leave, eg 51 v 49. will cameron attempt to engineer remaining (we will go back to the negotiating table for a better deal)? it would certainly be the end of him but it's not a clear mandate to go. and similarly if it was the reverse then you can probably guarantee another referendum in the near future (and the total implosion of the tories) I think a leave result will prompt spin that the British Public have said no to 'the current arrangements', a round of hasty re-negotiations with the EU, and a second referendum within six months. I think a close stay result will leave Brexit Tories feeling vindicated in continuing to whine about the EU, but no imminent second referendum on the horizon.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:46
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Metrication posted:i wonder what happens if the result of the referendum is a very close vote for leave, eg 51 v 49. will cameron attempt to engineer remaining (we will go back to the negotiating table for a better deal)? it would certainly be the end of him but it's not a clear mandate to go. and similarly if it was the reverse then you can probably guarantee another referendum in the near future (and the total implosion of the tories) this is basically what I would love to see
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Jun 1, 2016 14:47
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Being white +10 points. Yeah there would be points awarded based on "Cultural fit" or something weaselly.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:47
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I think its reasonably likely Remain wins by a decent margin but its also very possible we get a Scots Referendum type scenario where its actually very close, though not close enough to be neck-and-neck so the euroskeptics on the right are galvanized. It would be pretty amusing to see Nige doing an SNP and floating a second referendum constantly.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:49
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nopantsjack posted:I think its reasonably likely Remain wins by a decent margin but its also very possible we get a Scots Referendum type scenario where its actually very close, The Scottish Referendum result wasn't close, let alone very close.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:51
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Given that both results are kinda bad, I'll probably just vote for whatever is losing to make it a closer run thing: more divisive in the Tory party that way.
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Jun 1, 2016 14:54
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Pissflaps posted:The Scottish Referendum result wasn't close, let alone very close. It was too close to put an end to the matter, if it had been 30/70 or something that would have been a lot better.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:02
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Namtab posted:I'm pretty sure being Catholic doesn't mean you support child abuse any more than being a Muslim means you support Isis. That's an interesting point, I would say they're slightly (massively) different in that ISIS does not represent the mainstream of either Sunni or Shia hierarchy, whereas the cover up of child abuse and protection of abusers was, in dozens of countries, perpetuated by the hierarchy and institutional organisation of the Catholic church, up to and including the Pope. It's like supporting UKIP, sure you can support UKIP and not be a racist, but if you support UKIP you are totally supporting racism even if you're not racist yourself. Guavanaut posted:JFairfax confirmed to not stand for are national anthem. totally, I never sing it either. It's kind of a silly anthem if you don't believe in God, or really support the institution of the monarchy, and feel that patriotism / nationalism is a scourge. JFairfax fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 15:10
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nothing to seehere posted:Given that both results are kinda bad, I'll probably just vote for whatever is losing to make it a closer run thing: more divisive in the Tory party that way. Remain winning is worse for the Tory party either way, and Brexit isn't just "kinda bad".
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Jun 1, 2016 15:12
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Does that mean that if you're a practicing Muslim you're a misogynist? Because the power structures of most forms of Islam that do have a hierarchy, and the social structures of those that don't, are often very backward in terms of gender roles, and yet Islamic feminism is a thing. But a marginalized thing like pro-LGBT Catholics.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:12
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Guavanaut posted:Does that mean that if you're a practicing Muslim you're a misogynist? Because the power structures of most forms of Islam that do have a hierarchy, and the social structures of those that don't, are often very backward in terms of gender roles, and yet Islamic feminism is a thing. But a marginalized thing like pro-LGBT Catholics. I mean it depends, but odds are you are, I mean if you were to bet on it. This is the problem with a lot of these religions, they are pretty awful when it comes to gender roles, homosexuality etc. I always like to joke that the right wing Christians who hate Islam and Muslims are missing a trick because they have much more in common than they realise, like hating women and gays.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:15
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That's a great joke I'm not surprised you use it often.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:18
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Seems a journalist from Liberation (the French centre-left paper) is asking us to Leave so that other countries have a better chance to renegotiate the EU towards a more democratic and humanitarian mission: https://twitter.com/Berlaymonster/status/737931627775569920
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Jun 1, 2016 15:22
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Pissflaps posted:That's a great joke I'm not surprised you use it often. it's funny because its true
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Jun 1, 2016 15:26
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Guavanaut posted:Does that mean that if you're a practicing Muslim you're a misogynist? Because the power structures of most forms of Islam that do have a hierarchy, and the social structures of those that don't, are often very backward in terms of gender roles, and yet Islamic feminism is a thing. But a marginalized thing like pro-LGBT Catholics. On a related note, I do love the power that Islam has to turn (non-Muslim) feminists into fascists and fascists into feminists. 
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Jun 1, 2016 15:29
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If you don't think that organised Judeo-Christian religion, of which Islam is an offshoot, is a massive part of the Patriarchy / Kyriarchy then I don't know what to tell you. I mean organised religion has been like the biggest driver for a hetero-normative masculine focused world.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:33
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TinTower posted:On a related note, I do love the power that Islam has to turn (non-Muslim) feminists into fascists and fascists into feminists. lol like when Europol decided rape culture was very, very real in wake of the New Year gropes but then decided it was bullshit once it was revealed that all but three of the people weren't Syrian and the ones who were were born in Europe to Syrian parents.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:36
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Joy Division is making a come back?
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Jun 1, 2016 15:40
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31 years ago today the 'Battle' of the Beanfield happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHyDaAXw8Ck http://hubpages.com/politics/The-Battle-of-the-Beanfield ACAB
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Jun 1, 2016 15:58
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Serotonin posted:31 years ago today the 'Battle' of the Beanfield happened. RIP rave culture. I am sad I was too young to go to some of these awesome raves pre-Beanfield e/ wait, this is a lot earlier than I thought it happened, I always thought this was the early 1990s. JFairfax fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 16:00
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JFairfax posted:RIP rave culture. I am sad I was too young to go to some of these awesome raves pre-Beanfield It predated raves by some time. This was the era of the Peace Convoy, mid/late 70s to mid 80s.I lived close to Stonehenge at the time and saw a lot of the travellers. Serotonin fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 16:04
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Tesseraction posted:Seems a journalist from Liberation (the French centre-left paper) is asking us to Leave so that other countries have a better chance to renegotiate the EU towards a more democratic and humanitarian mission
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Jun 1, 2016 16:05
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LemonDrizzle posted:Quatremer is deliciously bitter about basically everything. Being fair, he's part of a paper started by Satre and it got bought out by the Rothschild family. Yes, that Rothschild family.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:07
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Serotonin posted:It predated raves by some time. This was the era of the Peace Convoy, mid/late 70s to mid 80s.I lived close to Stonehenge at the time and saw a lot of the travellers. yeah, I am not sure what I am thinking of. I have a feeling it's related to the fact that the court cases for the battle of the bean field dragged on into the early 1990s and I am in my memory thinking that the bean field happened around the introduction of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act of 1994.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:08
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Baron Corbyn posted:Apparently someone is leaking Corbyn's PMQs to Cameron before he answers them. So Cameron's complete non-answers and unrelated personal attacks are with time to prepare for them. I was under the impression they are always submitted in advance, allowing Dave to have his Big Book of facts open to the right page so he can quack unrelated stats and say 'under the previous Labour government', and to stop people who say they want to ask if the PM agrees the kittens are adorable actually asking why he hosed a dead pig on live tv.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:20
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TinTower posted:
Yeah but, that's basically been the case for Leave this whole time - Grate Britane, We'll Work It Out Later. None of them have even pretended to have a plan for the transition or even an understanding of the consequences, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. The fact it's a kipper who doesn't have a clue here isn't exactly adding an element of 
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Jun 1, 2016 16:24
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JFairfax posted:yeah, I am not sure what I am thinking of. I have a feeling it's related to the fact that the court cases for the battle of the bean field dragged on into the early 1990s and I am in my memory thinking that the bean field happened around the introduction of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act of 1994. They did limp on, and i think it wasnt till early 90s that many got some small form of compensation. It certainly paved the way for the CJA
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Jun 1, 2016 16:24
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The problem with the Peace Convoy types is that they're full of pacifists. That isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, it just makes them easy targets. Which is why in order for a pacifist movement like that to not lose completely, although they will probably still get a kicking now and again, they need an unaffiliated co-movement that explicitly isn't. MLK would have got nowhere without Malcolm X and the Deacons for Defense making him look like the preferable option. Gandhi would have been more of a footnote if it wasn't for Bose to provide firepower where needed. Nobody wants to be in the latter group though, because they get singled out as the bad ones in comparison to our newly reasonable pacifist friends.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:26
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Pissflaps posted:The Scottish Referendum result wasn't close, let alone very close. 55-45 is a close result, in a Yes or No question, getting 55% of the vote is not a dominating win, nobody is arguing its not a majority however. Roughly a third of the entire population (including babies and people who cant vote) of Scotland voted to leave the UK, I will be surprised if the EU vote is as close.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:43
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Heisenberg1276 posted:Jeremy Corbyn: The Outsider is out Politics-wise, it's unlikely to convert anyone who isn't already onboard with Corbyn's policies - however it shows him as a normal functioning human being when interacting with the great unwashed, and its a good showcase of his laidback approachable image, if nothing else. It wasn't afraid to be critical of some of his decisions, and events in the news (not pressing more into the horrific budget gently caress-up and IDS's resignation, and Livingstone and anti-semitism.). But there's no real revelations from the documentary, other than perhaps someone leaking the PMQs early. Style-wise, it's a reflection of how accurate The Thick of It is; lots of nervous looking PR people shuffling papers in white-washed conference rooms. And general milling about.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:47
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Trickjaw posted:I was under the impression they are always submitted in advance Wrong.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:48
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DoctorTristan posted:Wrong. Yeah. As I recall a set few questions are provided in advance, and the rest are allowed to be off the cuff, primarily because if they're all scripted then the Prime Minister could say something and no-one would be able to respond to it. Effectively making it Prime Minister's recital. I believe Corbyn is not required to provide any questions in advance, but I think sometimes the leader of the opp will provide the first one in order to not get a "bluh dunno!!1!!" answer.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:52
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Anyone seen this, is it new? http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/31/whistleblower-exposes-major-new-allegation-tory-election-fraud-scandal-exclusive/ "A whistleblower who worked for a telephone research agency hired by the Conservative party in the run-up to the 2015 general election has made several serious allegations. They have told The Canary they were instructed to deny links to the Conservatives when conducting telephone surveys of voters. They have said the questions they were instructed to ask were misleading, pushing answers in favour of the Conservative party. And, while the calls they made targeted voters in specific, marginal constituencies, The Canary has found evidence that the expenses were declared as national party spending – and some do not appear to have been declared at all." Could be the shout in the arm this one needs. Although more Tories in turmoil right now isn't necessarily good for our constitutional future.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:54
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nopantsjack posted:55-45 is a close result, in a Yes or No question, getting 55% of the vote is not a dominating win, nobody is arguing its not a majority however. I reckon the EU vote will be decided within a margin smaller than that of the IndyRef. I'm going to take a reckon at 53-47 in favour of leave. 
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Jun 1, 2016 16:56
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Pesky Splinter posted:Politics-wise, it's unlikely to convert anyone who isn't already onboard with Corbyn's policies - however it shows him as a normal functioning human being when interacting with the great unwashed, and its a good showcase of his laidback approachable image, if nothing else. I sort of feel like the IDS resignation was a no-go area because nobody really knew what to make of it - it was impossible that it was a genuine matter of conscience (and nobody wanted to help with that loathsome little fucker's political rehabilitation), and nobody knew his real motive. As a result, it was just too hard to figure out an angle of attack on.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:56
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quote:Critics claimed that the 1984 festival had resulted in the destruction of archaeological information and on the site itself, "holes had been dug in Bronze Age barrows for latrines and as bread ovens, motorcycles had been ridden over them, churning the surface. Fences had been torn down, and a thousand young trees cut down for firewood".[9] The clean-up cost upwards of £20,000, besides the archaeological information that was lost.[9] Landowners also claimed that damage to Stonehenge, other property damage, trespassing, recreational drug use and bathing naked in rivers had occurred during the festival.[3] I don't care about the landowners' hurt feelings, but loving up an archeological site is not cool.  In other news, my Brexit Insurance Strategy is underway and I've just applied for Irish citizenship. Being unable to freely live and work wherever in the EU would seriously suck.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:59
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it's brand new info yeah, plus another tory attempt to block an investigation into the spending (this time in thanet) has been rejected, giving another police force a year to investigate
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Jun 1, 2016 17:00
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Guavanaut posted:Nobody wants to be in the latter group though, because they get singled out as the bad ones in comparison to our newly reasonable pacifist friends. And, y'know, imprisoned/shot a whole lot.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:00
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Zalakwe posted:Anyone seen this, is it new? Phoon posted:it's brand new info yeah, plus another tory attempt to block an investigation into the spending (this time in thanet) has been rejected, giving another police force a year to investigate I'd posted about it on the last page.  But yes, I'm cautiously optimistic, as was Martin Kettle about the media silence - he points out that while the police are collecting evidence the papers et al are keeping quiet so as not to gently caress up the scandal of our generation (imagine 30 by-elections, all in marginals, over expenses corruption).
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Jun 1, 2016 17:03
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