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Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me


gauss posted:

Metal Health is unquestionably the first real difficulty spike in the game. I recommend the Killdozer for that mission, Treehouse seems like it would be an easy way to beat it but it requires some fairly high level play. Regardless of your loadout, take it slow, don't aggro more enemies without dispatching the ones already alerted to your presence. unless you're playing the Rounder; the railgun is so loud you need to strike and then kite away while cloaked.

The Ploughman (chem launcher) does often deny you ammo pickup,, but it has incredible crowd control and area denial capabilities. Your secondary (Koenig iirc?) is very much like the GAU-8 it was modeled on. Your temptation will be to just hold down the button, but that's how you run out of ammo. Short controlled bursts! Most people seem to hold that button down and walk fire from target to target, wasting most of their shots. Get aimed up and then let off a peal.

Also, from about Metal Health on, constant, strategic use of your special/defensive is crucial.

Good tips! I found it pretty easy with the Rounder, though the Rounder might be my favorite vehicle of all of them in the whole game, and has been for a couple versions now, I seem to do well with it with any loadout. I've been trying to stop holding the trigger on that Treehouse secondary, it's totally my bad play there. I got in a habit of luring people around corners into chem clouds and it's been helping, but I always fall apart somewhere late in the level with the Treehouse. I'll get there soon enough!

The next level I thought was way simpler, though I just really like its vehicle selection, especially the Rope Kid. One of my favorite maps, too, it feels real tight and it feels like there's a rolling fight.

Dog Fat Man Chaser fucked around with this message at Jun 3, 2016 around 17:51

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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

gauss posted:

Metal Health is unquestionably the first real difficulty spike in the game. I recommend the Killdozer for that mission, Treehouse seems like it would be an easy way to beat it but it requires some fairly high level play. Regardless of your loadout, take it slow, don't aggro more enemies without dispatching the ones already alerted to your presence. unless you're playing the Rounder; the railgun is so loud you need to strike and then kite away while cloaked.

The Ploughman (chem launcher) does often deny you ammo pickup,, but it has incredible crowd control and area denial capabilities. Your secondary (Koenig iirc?) is very much like the GAU-8 it was modeled on. Your temptation will be to just hold down the button, but that's how you run out of ammo. Short controlled bursts! Most people seem to hold that button down and walk fire from target to target, wasting most of their shots. Get aimed up and then let off a peal.

Also, from about Metal Health on, constant, strategic use of your special/defensive is crucial.

I haven't beaten Metal Health yet, but Killdozer was my closest followed by Treehouse. The thing with Treehouse is that while the Ploughman denies you a lot of ammo pickups, both it and the Koenig are incredibly powerful, and you don't need to pick up much ammo at all. Be careful about boosting into trouble to try to pick up ammo / shields. Sometimes it's helpful, but often you'll run into an ambush. I've also found that starting off heading southwest is more productive than starting off heading southeast.

Psykmoe
Oct 28, 2008


My first successful Metal Health run was in the Mongoose. The Carlos gun shoots through forests without being as noisy as the railgun, you get camo and in general the Mog seems to be quieter. Tended to do a lot of long range hit and fade, you really need to catch enemies with shields unawares to do a good chunk of damage to them on the first shot.

Plus with camo you can just walk up to the stationary turrets and kick them down, they can't depress to hit stuff at their base.


Found Ghost was a real rear end in a top hat of a mission with the Party Van, though, that loadout is so bad versus Spacers if they get their shields up.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Psykmoe posted:


Plus with camo you can just walk up to the stationary turrets and kick them down, they can't depress to hit stuff at their base.

Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me


Psykmoe posted:

Plus with camo you can just walk up to the stationary turrets and kick them down, they can't depress to hit stuff at their base.

Mongoose is so good you guys.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


gauss posted:

While I agree that a sound cue would be the best for helping you realize you're out of shields, you do have a visual indicator: the small blue orbs circling your vehicle (and enemy vehicles when they have their shields raised, actually) indicate you still have shields, and if they are brighter blue and faster it's because your shields are overcharged.

Yeah, but it's incredibly easy to miss when everything is blowing up all around the screen.

Rather than a sound cue, I'd much rather have a little warning triangle superimposed over the mech itself, because glowing yellow/orange is much more visible against the map background.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Lemon-Lime posted:

Yeah, but it's incredibly easy to miss when everything is blowing up all around the screen.

Rather than a sound cue, I'd much rather have a little warning triangle superimposed over the mech itself, because glowing yellow/orange is much more visible against the map background.

That's a good suggestion, thanks.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



I know most people are still chewing away at the campaign mode and I know you haven't gotten more than a third through the freelance, but I wanted to just poll people informally about what they've enjoyed the most.

Chatting about a follow-up campaign DLC, what kind of focus would people like to see more of? like which missions are your favorite and make you say "i want to play more of that."


Do far i have been leaning toward basically a campaign of all lil' busters. Mog and mog-sized vehicles plus the very light/fast agravs and treadbikes, with a new campaign tailored around them.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


Mongoose is definitely a contender for funnest mech, and it requires a lot of finesse that you don't get a lot of in the mech and tank category but that you definitely have to employ for agrav stuff. I'd be up for more of that. I'd also like to see what you guys could do with some kind of time limit gauntlet sort of content. You can take most of the campaign missions as slow as you want (that I've done anyway), but some of the best ones are constant combat and scurrying between cover, popping smoke or camo as it's available.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Stealth stuff with little vehicles with loadouts that work for it is super fun, so I'm also tossing my vote in for missions for all the tiniest mechs/tanks/agravs.

Psykmoe
Oct 28, 2008


I love finesse play but I hate being stuck with The AK pulse device. The Party Van looks amusing but the premade one for some of the missions doesn't make things easy. The Mongoose and some of the light agravs tend to be lovely as long as they get camo or at least smoke/emp.

Also, in the other direction, I really would love to be able to take the Gehenna for a spin. There's one in one of the campaign spaceport missions (or pay 100k pay for the intel on Corvid Ultraheavy mech to have a look) and it just looks so cool.

Psykmoe fucked around with this message at Jun 3, 2016 around 19:17

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

dyzzy posted:

Apparently the cause has been determined and a general fix is on the way.

I can confirm that I have the extras and I didn't do anything in particular.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh


Inch of Dust, whew. The Party Van stalked the fields like a beast of prey...

Saint Isaias Boner
Jan 17, 2007



Plaster Town Cop

Nothing I'm trying is getting me even through New Feeling - if I go to the left I get destroyed by the guys on the right as soon as reinforcements appear, if I go right I get nailed as soon as those sentries set off the alarm. On the rare times I've busted through the first wave I've been swarmed. I'm absolutely certain I'm just not getting the fundamentals here somehow.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh


Which loadout are you using? The Huss can pulverize pretty much every unit on the map with its weaponry, provided you're careful with the ammo.

Generally speaking, try to fall back when you engage enemies to prevent dealing with too many at once, and try to do that without exposing your rear, which takes x2 damage.

Saint Isaias Boner
Jan 17, 2007



Plaster Town Cop

dyzzy posted:

Which loadout are you using? The Huss can pulverize pretty much every unit on the map with its weaponry, provided you're careful with the ammo.

Generally speaking, try to fall back when you engage enemies to prevent dealing with too many at once, and try to do that without exposing your rear, which takes x2 damage.

that might be the problem, I think I'm letting myself get overrun and then taking damage when I try to break out. I mostly try with the touro because I like mechs but I've given all of the vehicles a go without much luck.

elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

Lightning... It flashes bright, then fades away. It can't protect; it only destroys.


The structure of Campaign vs Freeplay plus a big store to buy maps and people and extras reminds me of Advance Wars. Also just calling lore "Lore" is cool.

Skyscraper
Oct 1, 2004

Hyper Ethical Origami Funtime Climax!



I just got the soundtrack DLC Update! (and it is, of course, awesome)

Pladdicus
Aug 13, 2010


This game needs more advertising, literally make a gif album and post it everywhere. The gifs will sell this game.

S'why I bought it.

I also want more gifs.

Jose Mengelez
Sep 11, 2001

~the boi from brazil~


Finally beat the last 2 campaign contracts (the void repeats was a lot easier when i figured out hadrhat can basically bulldoze all day) what a fantastically constructed map, tests almost every skill you've picked up to that point. So about the new maps,, more of that.

Captain Gordon
Jul 22, 2004


I am loving the game. Also, thanks for fixing my audiobook+OST issue! (The Own Zone on Steam)

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

Saint Isaias Boner posted:

that might be the problem, I think I'm letting myself get overrun and then taking damage when I try to break out. I mostly try with the touro because I like mechs but I've given all of the vehicles a go without much luck.

Slow and steady wins the day. Remember guns make noise, and that units who notice you will aggro nearby friendlies as well to come aid them. Going all Leroy Jenkins is only for the hardest of Brigadores-- generally speaking it's best to take one encounter at a time and alway keep open ground to your back.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Cockiness gets me killed faster than anything.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Saint Isaias Boner posted:

Nothing I'm trying is getting me even through New Feeling - if I go to the left I get destroyed by the guys on the right as soon as reinforcements appear, if I go right I get nailed as soon as those sentries set off the alarm. On the rare times I've busted through the first wave I've been swarmed. I'm absolutely certain I'm just not getting the fundamentals here somehow.

Everyone I've watched seems to avoid using the Touro on that mission, despite it being one of the best in the entire game. I think it's because it shows up in the tutorials, so people avoid it like it's crappy starter kit. Something we're talking about fixing.


Anyway, though I think that mission is going to get easier in some form or another in a patch, here are my suggestions: take the Touro, walk out, and splash the tank destroyers to your left, and then quickly splash the tank destroyers on your right with the Abbot (LMB cannon) then go left. The Touro, exactly as the name suggests, is a bull, and the level is the running of the bulls and it wants to gore everything. So splash those tanks before they can get their shields up, and then go left. "But left is tight, there's no room to maneuver," you think, but that's where the Touro is best. Smoke either left or right approach, and stomp anything that makes it through the smoke, while you keep your guns trained on the opposite direction.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

The Touro is really, really good.

Saint Isaias Boner
Jan 17, 2007



Plaster Town Cop

gauss posted:

Everyone I've watched seems to avoid using the Touro on that mission, despite it being one of the best in the entire game. I think it's because it shows up in the tutorials, so people avoid it like it's crappy starter kit. Something we're talking about fixing.


Anyway, though I think that mission is going to get easier in some form or another in a patch, here are my suggestions: take the Touro, walk out, and splash the tank destroyers to your left, and then quickly splash the tank destroyers on your right with the Abbot (LMB cannon) then go left. The Touro, exactly as the name suggests, is a bull, and the level is the running of the bulls and it wants to gore everything. So splash those tanks before they can get their shields up, and then go left. "But left is tight, there's no room to maneuver," you think, but that's where the Touro is best. Smoke either left or right approach, and stomp anything that makes it through the smoke, while you keep your guns trained on the opposite direction.

Cool, I'll give that a shot. Thanks!

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


The Touro's just the good, solid all-rounder. It's the baseline by which you measure every other vehicle in the game.

SilentW
Apr 3, 2009

my It dept hgere is fucking clwonshoes, and as someone hwo used to do IT for 9 years it pains me to see them fbe so terriuble

Fallen Rib

Captain Foo posted:

The Touro is really, really good.

The only thing better is a Fatshoe

I have seen a lot of streamers mistake the cheap weapons/vehicles for bad ones - I personally find that price and difficulty of use go hand in hand - the Black Hand is not amazing compared to the rest of its class, but it costs more, probably because it's difficult to use properly.
This isn't really exposed to the player at all, but I don't know how you'd do it since it flies in the face of the modern grind-until-you-can-play-without-wanting-to-die unlock structure.

SilentW fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 00:25

Captain Gordon
Jul 22, 2004


The only thing this game needs is a coop freelance mode, which ends if either players vehicle blows up.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh


Big thing to take away from the pricing model is that things are generally more expensive because they present more of a challenge (big exception being the weapons, which are just based on their size category) and demand more of the pilot. It runs counter to the usual scheme in games so I hope there's a good way discovered to convey that.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

dyzzy posted:

Big thing to take away from the pricing model is that things are generally more expensive because they present more of a challenge (big exception being the weapons, which are just based on their size category) and demand more of the pilot. It runs counter to the usual scheme in games so I hope there's a good way discovered to convey that.

I've only played about 20 minutes so far sadly (botched it at the very end of the first Freeplay run after otherwise doing perfectly fine ). Pilots are clear enough that more price = more difficulty. But those also get better reward modifiers. So the most transparent case of "New things are harder" still tells people "But new things are also BETTER!".

I agree it will be hard to get across that the starting equipment isn't trash tier starter gear like 90% of games everywhere to new players. Even if they read the lore for the Touro, plenty of games have lore that have no bearing on function. "It's old but we keep it around because it still works fine/competitive with modern equipment" is often shorthand for "Tutorial Equipment", and games actually holding up to that flavor is less common.

It will probably take some straight up direct notice "Hey guys, The starting equipment is actually REALLY good in this game. We swear it's just because it's a comfortable baseline" to even approach getting it across to people who do not already know this to be true. Because we've all been conditioned by such things.

Psykmoe
Oct 28, 2008


The Pinch is probably my favorite Small mount gun to have as back-up. Big old aoe, lots of shield damage, slows the enemy down a little while (not full stun/shield strip like the EMP ability, but rather nice to slow down those little rear end in a top hat Spacer agravs). Just a useful package all around.

But yeah, the basic Touro with Abbot gun and the back-up machinegun can basically deal with anything.


Maybe once the gun descriptions are all in, things'll be clearer, but right now the Heavy '88' just seems like a less fun version of the Kraken. They're both big ol' shotguns, but the Kraken gets double the ammo and doesn't seem to deal particularly less damage except maybe to shields. And without the hilarious overpenetration of the Kraken, the whole thing is a bit boring

Psykmoe fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 01:29

ClumsyHandjob
Dec 27, 2012


Metal Health was definitely the first challenge, I finally beat it with the Treehouse. For anyone else struggling: I moved slowly and used the Ploughman to catch enemies in bottlenecks in the forest. Fire the machien gun in small bursts to conserve ammo. Finally used the pulse to catch the fast swarming enemies and clear out trees for more Ploughman shots. Oh, and I died three times before I realized I was walking into my own Ploughman gas

Pulling my hair out over Inch of Dust now, guess I need to switch up loadouts or something.

I absolutely love this game, I had no idea I missed Desert Strike.

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

ClumsyHandjob posted:

Metal Health was definitely the first challenge, I finally beat it with the Treehouse. For anyone else struggling: I moved slowly and used the Ploughman to catch enemies in bottlenecks in the forest. Fire the machien gun in small bursts to conserve ammo. Finally used the pulse to catch the fast swarming enemies and clear out trees for more Ploughman shots. Oh, and I died three times before I realized I was walking into my own Ploughman gas

Pulling my hair out over Inch of Dust now, guess I need to switch up loadouts or something.

I absolutely love this game, I had no idea I missed Desert Strike.

Cheers mate! Also, Ploughman and Treehouse both gettin some love with tonight's update.

individual865
Mar 26, 2007

Life on the outside ain't what it used to be.


College Slice

Just bought this based on the soundtrack and aesthetic, and plugged it in the New Retrowave thread in GBS!

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Section Z posted:

I've only played about 20 minutes so far sadly (botched it at the very end of the first Freeplay run after otherwise doing perfectly fine ). Pilots are clear enough that more price = more difficulty. But those also get better reward modifiers. So the most transparent case of "New things are harder" still tells people "But new things are also BETTER!".

I agree it will be hard to get across that the starting equipment isn't trash tier starter gear like 90% of games everywhere to new players. Even if they read the lore for the Touro, plenty of games have lore that have no bearing on function. "It's old but we keep it around because it still works fine/competitive with modern equipment" is often shorthand for "Tutorial Equipment", and games actually holding up to that flavor is less common.

It will probably take some straight up direct notice "Hey guys, The starting equipment is actually REALLY good in this game. We swear it's just because it's a comfortable baseline" to even approach getting it across to people who do not already know this to be true. Because we've all been conditioned by such things.

Good post, and this combined with some streams we've watched I think have convinced us to make sure that the tutorials are played with goofy, throw-away units that don't appear anywhere else specifically to prevent people from disregarding them. The Touro vanilla loadout (Abbot + Mae Dois + Smoke) is quite frankly the benchmark by which everything else in the game is measured. It's the game's Mario, it's Doomguy, that's why it's on the splash screen. So it's our fault if that's not only not obvious, but not appreciable by the way people make their way through the game. We thought we were doing a big and obvious favor by unlocking pro tier poo poo up front, but it turns out people don't think that way, and perception is reality.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



ClumsyHandjob posted:

Metal Health was definitely the first challenge, I finally beat it with the Treehouse. For anyone else struggling: I moved slowly and used the Ploughman to catch enemies in bottlenecks in the forest. Fire the machien gun in small bursts to conserve ammo. Finally used the pulse to catch the fast swarming enemies and clear out trees for more Ploughman shots. Oh, and I died three times before I realized I was walking into my own Ploughman gas

Pulling my hair out over Inch of Dust now, guess I need to switch up loadouts or something.

I absolutely love this game, I had no idea I missed Desert Strike.

Right on dude, really enjoyable to read this post.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



individual865 posted:

Just bought this based on the soundtrack and aesthetic, and plugged it in the New Retrowave thread in GBS!

BOOYAH

Luceid
Jan 20, 2005

Buy some freaking medicine.


this game is exceedingly good. it's in science journals and everything, a proven fact.

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anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

Luceid posted:

this game is exceedingly good. it's in science journals and everything, a proven fact.

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