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anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope


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Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



The only weird thing about the tutorial is it tells you "LMB+RMB+MMB+Space" and not what's supposed to happen. I guess it's just to show that you can alpha strike, not that it causes any special effect?

Mental Health is tough but I had a lot of fun figuring it out. The Killdozer's ability to take out turrets and the big mech targets with a bull rush was what eventually got me through.

In a lot of games smoke grenades are anemic but here they're incredibly useful. I've watched some streams and I think people underestimate how good they are.

Luceid
Jan 20, 2005

Buy some freaking medicine.



you knew this would happen, given that this is a game that requires people to not approach every problem in the exact same way and demands some level of consideration and adaptation to challenge!!

edit: also the guy is retarded i guess. w/e the game is incredible so gently caress him

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Internet Friend posted:

The only weird thing about the tutorial is it tells you "LMB+RMB+MMB+Space" and not what's supposed to happen. I guess it's just to show that you can alpha strike, not that it causes any special effect?

Mental Health is tough but I had a lot of fun figuring it out. The Killdozer's ability to take out turrets and the big mech targets with a bull rush was what eventually got me through.

In a lot of games smoke grenades are anemic but here they're incredibly useful. I've watched some streams and I think people underestimate how good they are.

Yeah, that one is going to change, as are the tutorials, significantly. We've seen people playing the game before, at both PAX Prime and East, but there's something special about Twitch to really drive home certain lessons. The tutorials will be retrofit and expanded, and hopefully even seasoned players will get something out of them.


And thank you, yes. Smoke projector was the first defensive ability in the game, and for us it was a constant concern and difficult design process to try and come up with anything that was half as effective and versatile as smoke. We had to work really hard. Once you understand how to deploy it, it's frankly hard to not pick smoke on a Freelance run.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

gauss posted:

Good post, and this combined with some streams we've watched I think have convinced us to make sure that the tutorials are played with goofy, throw-away units that don't appear anywhere else specifically to prevent people from disregarding them. The Touro vanilla loadout (Abbot + Mae Dois + Smoke) is quite frankly the benchmark by which everything else in the game is measured. It's the game's Mario, it's Doomguy, that's why it's on the splash screen. So it's our fault if that's not only not obvious, but not appreciable by the way people make their way through the game. We thought we were doing a big and obvious favor by unlocking pro tier poo poo up front, but it turns out people don't think that way, and perception is reality.
While I don't think you should use a throwaway trash robot for the tutorials JUST to avoid people making GBS threads on the actually good things, I could see if that ends up the only thing clear cut enough.

Comedy option: Start out the tutorial with the on foot soldier. Then transition to the Touro with your pitch for "This is a good mech. Not a tutorial/starter equipment throwaway. It's on the title splash for a reason"

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Also I'd like to point out the joy of watching someone on Twitch discover that you can mulch infantry with a direct hit of smoke grenades to the face. A la Counterstrike. It might not be a lot of hitpoints for other vehicles, but a smoke grenade is still curtains for a few particularly unlucky soldiers.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Section Z posted:

While I don't think you should use a throwaway trash robot for the tutorials JUST to avoid people making GBS threads on the actually good things, I could see if that ends up the only thing clear cut enough.

Comedy option: Start out the tutorial with the on foot soldier. Then transition to the Touro with your pitch for "This is a good mech. Not a tutorial/starter equipment throwaway. It's on the title splash for a reason"

You say that, but you haven't built this game for years and played it with the Touro for what amounts to full days of your life, to watch people on streams try and repeatedly pick literally any other loadout, multiple times, because presumably it's not the "tutorial mech." Lesson learned. Some things need to be built up to be appreciated.

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



gauss posted:

Yeah, that one is going to change, as are the tutorials, significantly. We've seen people playing the game before, at both PAX Prime and East, but there's something special about Twitch to really drive home certain lessons. The tutorials will be retrofit and expanded, and hopefully even seasoned players will get something out of them.


And thank you, yes. Smoke projector was the first defensive ability in the game, and for us it was a constant concern and difficult design process to try and come up with anything that was half as effective and versatile as smoke. We had to work really hard. Once you understand how to deploy it, it's frankly hard to not pick smoke on a Freelance run.

Nice. If it helps I did stream myself playing a couple hours: https://www.twitch.tv/internetfriend/v/70371132 . Successful Mental Health starts at 19:00. Sorry for mixing up your names at the start of it.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Internet Friend posted:

Nice. If it helps I did stream myself playing a couple hours: https://www.twitch.tv/internetfriend/v/70371132 . Successful Mental Health starts at 19:00. Sorry for mixing up your names at the start of it.

Oh awesome. Yes, that is a help, I will check it out!

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

Just found this guy's video in the steam forums-- he's a loving operator. If you want to know what a good Metal Health run looks like, this is it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoHgIeAnpuM

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

This is no shitpost,boy! No shitpost!




I mean,he has a furry av,so he's clearly not of sound mind.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007
I'll shill for anything if I like it enough!

Thank you for making Brigador, it is a good and cool videogame in the year of our lord 2016. It is also making me want a very prettied up Desert Strike, is this normal?

The game play is very solid, though the controls do take getting used to. Nothing wrong with that. Game has definitely proven itself worth the money even after a mere hour stomping around with the Touro. It definitely feels like it nails the balance on being tough and rewarding, and there's tons of unlockables to mess with. The aesthetics are amazingly kick-rear end, love the visuals, the sound design, the music aaaaaaaa~

This has been such a good year in videogames, and the team behind Brigador should feel proud that they uniquely stand out among all these fun releases.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

gauss posted:

You say that, but you haven't built this game for years and played it with the Touro for what amounts to full days of your life, to watch people on streams try and repeatedly pick literally any other loadout, multiple times, because presumably it's not the "tutorial mech." Lesson learned. Some things need to be built up to be appreciated.

Oh I got that much at least. I meant more along the lines of trying to avoid the effort to build a brand new a Mech/Tankj/Agrav specifically for the tutorials. After all the effort already put in to the piles in game as it is.

Though I can still see how sadly it would take something that drastic to even begin to get the point across.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



fivegears4reverse posted:

Thank you for making Brigador, it is a good and cool videogame in the year of our lord 2016. It is also making me want a very prettied up Desert Strike, is this normal?

The game play is very solid, though the controls do take getting used to. Nothing wrong with that. Game has definitely proven itself worth the money even after a mere hour stomping around with the Touro. It definitely feels like it nails the balance on being tough and rewarding, and there's tons of unlockables to mess with. The aesthetics are amazingly kick-rear end, love the visuals, the sound design, the music aaaaaaaa~

This has been such a good year in videogames, and the team behind Brigador should feel proud that they uniquely stand out among all these fun releases.

It's a rough time to release a game on Steam these days (the game that was constantly beating us for a popular new release slot was a hidden object game sequel) but thank you, it means a lot to us to read that.

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

fivegears4reverse posted:

Thank you for making Brigador, it is a good and cool videogame in the year of our lord 2016. It is also making me want a very prettied up Desert Strike, is this normal?

The game play is very solid, though the controls do take getting used to. Nothing wrong with that. Game has definitely proven itself worth the money even after a mere hour stomping around with the Touro. It definitely feels like it nails the balance on being tough and rewarding, and there's tons of unlockables to mess with. The aesthetics are amazingly kick-rear end, love the visuals, the sound design, the music aaaaaaaa~

This has been such a good year in videogames, and the team behind Brigador should feel proud that they uniquely stand out among all these fun releases.

Cheers mate!

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Section Z posted:

Oh I got that much at least. I meant more along the lines of trying to avoid the effort to build a brand new a Mech/Tankj/Agrav specifically for the tutorials. After all the effort already put in to the piles in game as it is.

Though I can still see how sadly it would take something that drastic to even begin to get the point across.

Thankfully I was kitbash crazy when I was working on this game, and even though the 40+ unlockable playable vehicles might seem like too much, that was winnowed out of a pool of 100+ vehicles. So for the tuts we'll just dip in on the vast set of vehicles that will likely never be (or not soon be?) player vehicles.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


gauss posted:

We thought we were doing a big and obvious favor by unlocking pro tier poo poo up front, but it turns out people don't think that way, and perception is reality.
It's such a good idea in principle.

I noticed and watched the stream with Volition a bit ago, and a suburbia level just for Killdozer to run over houses is mentioned. Is this Metal Health? Is Killdozer in fact the canon choice for Metal Health?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Want to echo that guy's metal health experience. Took it slow with the treehouse (how else), remembered to not fire the ploughman while in trees , and didn't panic when I ran low on ammo because the guns pack a punch. Also, don't worry if a couple of such quick guys get in on you. That's what the BOOM is for, don't spin the Koenig away from your real threats. Speaking of, though it's generally better to fire it in quick bursts, don't be afraid to burn an enemy captain or shield truck down, especially if you're in the trees or the ploughman is between shots.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Fish Noise posted:

It's such a good idea in principle.

I noticed and watched the stream with Volition a bit ago, and a suburbia level just for Killdozer to run over houses is mentioned. Is this Metal Health? Is Killdozer in fact the canon choice for Metal Health?

Yes, in an earlier iteration the campaign had one, maybe two loadouts for everything. But we realized we spent so long trying to enfranchise different players with different kinds of builds, it seemed silly to force people into one or two vehicles for the whole campaign. So we ended up with 16 different loadouts, rotated through the campaign, in hopes that we would have better coverage on desired playstyles for any given mission.

gauss
Feb 9, 2001



Captain Foo posted:

Want to echo that guy's metal health experience. Took it slow with the treehouse (how else), remembered to not fire the ploughman while in trees , and didn't panic when I ran low on ammo because the guns pack a punch. Also, don't worry if a couple of such quick guys get in on you. That's what the BOOM is for, don't spin the Koenig away from your real threats. Speaking of, though it's generally better to fire it in quick bursts, don't be afraid to burn an enemy captain or shield truck down, especially if you're in the trees or the ploughman is between shots.

Amen, amen, I say to you.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014



I beat it using the railgun tank; the cloak and the long boost meant it almost had two defensive abilities since you can get out of dodge in a hurry, go invisible and circle back around. It still...took a while.

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

The update I'm popping in the next hour gives ploughman shells the ability to go through a few trees. Still don't penetrate for poo poo, but this way it's a little harder to just immediately gas yourself with it.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Okay it's been a while. Could someone explain to me the Alarms sounding with no laser line between me and the eyeball marked mechs? Do they just decide "gently caress it, we know there is live combat going on. Sound the alarm anyways" now?

I've been ducking behind cover, popping smoke, or otherwise breaking line of sight at the start of New Feeling and alarms just sound anyways with no light line at all.

My victory run after just shrugging and resetting after this several times, was when all of them decided to not call in alarms after pointing their lines at me while I brazenly broke line of sight against multiple commanders with smoke, walking behind a corner, or kicking them to death. Instead of dialing 911 in a fraction of the time with no line drawn to me, while I'm inside a smoke cloud crouched behind a great leader statue.

Did I just get lucky? Is the line actually a tickle laser and not a spotted indicator? What am I missing here that seems to be the difference between "Don't get an alarm called on you despite practically waving my dick in front of multiple observers trying to get a bead on me", and "Get an Alarm even while I'm taking steps to hide".

I am expecting I am simply missing something while being out of practice. So people who know what the hell they are doing chiming in on the matter would be appreciated. Maybe I wasn't as hidden as I thought but it just failed to draw the line those other times?

Metal Health EDIT: Haha! I know how to cut my losses and just leave as soon as the main objective is done. I am smart! *Panics like a baby at a lone Mongose between me and exit* That was totally worth the railgun shot to roll through the exit at 52 hull for my payday. I am in control of the situation

I am surprisingly poo poo at hitting small moving targets with the shotgun like Crambo on the Rounder loadout. go figure.

Section Z fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 06:41

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


gauss posted:

You say that, but you haven't built this game for years and played it with the Touro for what amounts to full days of your life, to watch people on streams try and repeatedly pick literally any other loadout, multiple times, because presumably it's not the "tutorial mech." Lesson learned. Some things need to be built up to be appreciated.

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, the reason I don't use the Touro is that it can't mount two krakens. Maybe you should see about fixing that?!?!?!

Also, Metal Health was doable with everyone except the Rounder. gently caress that tank's loadout, the crambo is a piece of poo poo and the railgun has the world's slowest refire rate. Having to shoot once then run the hell away because you can't actually fight for four seconds isn't fun.

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

Blue lines means they're trying to spot you-- if the radio tower is intact you have 2 seconds to break line of sight, if all radio towers are destroyed that spot time jumps to 4 or 5 seconds. Spotters begin sounding the alarm if either they
1) complete the spot duration
2) are damaged by the player

So if you engage a spotter you have 3 seconds to kill them before they sound the alarm. This window is much larger if you destroy the radio towers. This way it's still possible to have a no-alarm run against loyalists when you have low firepower vehicles.

Sounds like either they're starting to sound when you haven't noticed, or you've got some errant shots that are hitting spotters downrange.

anthony patch
Mar 20, 2008

nope

Lemon-Lime posted:

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, the reason I don't use the Touro is that it can't mount two krakens. Maybe you should see about fixing that?!?!?!

Also, Metal Health was doable with everyone except the Rounder. gently caress that tank's loadout, the crambo is a piece of poo poo and the railgun has the world's slowest refire rate. Having to shoot once then run the hell away because you can't actually fight for four seconds isn't fun.

Railgun can kill 3 tanks in a line, on top of a large explosive AoE. Just a matter of picking your shots.

Psykmoe
Oct 28, 2008


Someone talk to me about the Audiokinetic Pulse. I've occasionally managed to do something clever with it, but on most loadouts it just doesn't seem worth the opportunity cost of not having Smoke/Camo/EMP.

It's just not clicking with me and basically turns certain campaign loadouts into hardmode, which seems intended (not the Treehouse, that thing murders everything with the Ploughman/König combo). Still, I'd like to hear from people who might use it voluntarily in freelance.

I think one time on Found Ghost with the Party Van (worst mission-vehicle combo so far) I used it to blow up a depot as some big enemies were swarming past it, and I guess it protects against smaller enemies, but it seems to do really bad damage against anything with a shield up, so if I'm dealing with Spacers it doesn't even reliably get their tiny enemies off me when I try to take the AK Pulse on something big and lumbering.

Psykmoe fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 08:56

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


anthony patch posted:

Railgun can kill 3 tanks in a line, on top of a large explosive AoE. Just a matter of picking your shots.

Yeah, I know. I'm bad at aiming, and so would rather use weapons that can send multiple explosive rounds downrange in that same amount of time.

Psykmoe posted:

Someone talk to me about the Audiokinetic Pulse. I've occasionally managed to do something clever with it, but on most loadouts it just doesn't seem worth the opportunity cost of not having Smoke/Camo/EMP.

Yeah, I feel like it could do with a little buff - as it is, it barely pushes enemies back and doesn't reliably one-shot swarmers. Maybe I'm just using it wrong, though.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

anthony patch posted:

Blue lines means they're trying to spot you-- if the radio tower is intact you have 2 seconds to break line of sight, if all radio towers are destroyed that spot time jumps to 4 or 5 seconds. Spotters begin sounding the alarm if either they
1) complete the spot duration
2) are damaged by the player

So if you engage a spotter you have 3 seconds to kill them before they sound the alarm. This window is much larger if you destroy the radio towers. This way it's still possible to have a no-alarm run against loyalists when you have low firepower vehicles.

Sounds like either they're starting to sound when you haven't noticed, or you've got some errant shots that are hitting spotters downrange.

Okay, it's the damage thing that was probably the cause then. Though it certainly feels like a more generous time when I'm slowly kicking them to death in the middle of a smoke cloud, maybe that's just a heat of the moment thing.

Lemon-Lime posted:

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, the reason I don't use the Touro is that it can't mount two krakens. Maybe you should see about fixing that?!?!?!

Also, Metal Health was doable with everyone except the Rounder. gently caress that tank's loadout, the crambo is a piece of poo poo and the railgun has the world's slowest refire rate. Having to shoot once then run the hell away because you can't actually fight for four seconds isn't fun.
As for the rounder, I DID beat Metal Health with it... But I also found myself wishing for another loadout. I love the tank itself but it's loadout feels very limited despite it's strengths. Plus I remain garbage at "properly" taking out high altitude hovers with low elevation vehicles, so I resort to the railguns' splash damage on those guys to ensure they die rather than trying to aim at them personally (while apparently I can clip them without killing them with the railgun if I try to line up a multi target shot). Taller rides like the Touro I can pepper a hover directly with plenty of weapons thanks to the angles giving my aiming mentality on a moving above ground target good leeway.

Railgun, for all it's power, is just something I hate ever using on purpose on a tank or medium speed mech due to it's low ammo and long reload. It''s always a real bitch when you shoot it at a hard target and it merely ALMOST kills it too (Well, I clearly hit it if it dealt 90% of it's health. Right?.)

On something more capable of hit and runs or needing to punch above it's weight through a weak building, it's much more appealing. You have the mobility to take advantage of it's range and pick your shots with it's low ammo and long recharge. On a tank though? Even with speed boost and cloaks backing you up, it's just awkward as hell to rely on when things inevitably get hot. Then there is the learning curve of what buildings and structures and HOW MUCH of it they can pierce through is a whole other layer. I just can't trust it to penetrate all the way through to my target when it really counts (I am not inclined to buy it, just to practice with it in Freeplay for when I am forced to use it).

So I end up with bizzaro tactics when not using it to open up on static enemies. Relying more on running poo poo over in the the middle of a brawl than the railgun for "tough" targets, and using the railgun to swat hovers and clusters of weak enemies with the splash damage But hey, it WORKED.

TL;DR about railguns: It's super strong, but feels awkward as hell on less than (naturally) speedy vehicles. Such as a rounder tank. "It can kill three tanks in one well placed shot!" true, but plenty of weapons can do the job about as fast and are more forgiving in the process.

gently caress yeah, Shortbus. I just cleared the victory conditions on Suicide Machines and left. Kraken: 10/10 would murder the poo poo out of everything through buildings again. Pinch rockets: Uh... Well, even CARS survive it, while my Kraken one shots killdozers from the front and murders the guy behind him. so maybe it's a special anti shield rocket or something?

Nthing that more detailed info about the weapons we are getting in the campaign would be great. Going to buy the Pinch in Freeplay just to see what the hell it's deal is. I can't kill cars with it, I can't kill eye drones with it (they barely survive). Thank god the KRAKEN is loving amazing.

EDIT: No description available, but yeah 5 stars in shield damage, 1 star in everything else but rate of fire. This literally explains everything, and lets me get so much more intelligent use out of it (murder everything with the Kraken. Open up with a pinch rocket on enemies with proper shields, THEN Kraken. Because it's faster than waiting the EMP to land).

Section Z fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 10:02

Psykmoe
Oct 28, 2008


The Pinch also has large splash and seems to slow enemies down (it has some kind of pseudo-emp effect where their headlights start flickering off). I found it very useful for making faster enemies easier to hit, because the splash makes it pretty simple to hit them by shooting at a nearby obstacle and then they slow down and are easier to smash.

I also found the railgun a little too finnicky to use for my enjoyment. Especially against enemies with low profiles it's easy to try and line up a triple kill and the first one just gets a haircut because my weapon mount is high

Psykmoe fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2016 around 10:21

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


I'm fine with the railgun, but it desperately needs to be paired with a secondary that you can actually use to kill things, like the Confessor, Parliament or Mae Dois.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



So I dont think its been mentioned yet (maybe put it in the OP) but the Deluxe Edition is $5 off ($25) on Itch.io (you also get Steam keys) for 5 more days.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Just beat Joy Bus / Hell Ride with the Pompadour. Definitely took me the most tries yet.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Dual Krakens is amazing

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Omg yes I just beat Knife Chase without taking more than two steps from the start

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Basticle posted:

Dual Krakens is amazing



Kraken's the most fun gun in the game, all hail heavy mounts.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



So it appears that buying new pilots increases your mission payout? It also shows a min and max difficulty, what does that mean?

elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

Lightning... It flashes bright, then fades away. It can't protect; it only destroys.


Basticle posted:

So it appears that buying new pilots increases your mission payout? It also shows a min and max difficulty, what does that mean?

Pilots are essentially difficulty customizers for freelance. Freelance operations are made out of sets of levels, and a pilot determines how hard the set starts out, and how it will escalate. And each pilot has a different multiplier for your reward at the end. More risk, more reward.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Basticle posted:

So it appears that buying new pilots increases your mission payout? It also shows a min and max difficulty, what does that mean?

In Freelance mode, each faction has a different spawn list per difficulty level, with higher levels increasing enemy density and giving them heavier vehicles/weapons. Each pilot has a starting difficulty, a difficulty increase per map you play beyond the starting map, and a maximum difficulty. The difficulty levels go from 0 to 12 (AKA MAX) in 0.5 increments.

So for example, Norman Osberger starts at 0.0, and will stay at 0.0 no matter how many maps you do. Efigenia Teng will start at 0.0, then go up by 0.5 for every map beyond the first, so if you do a two map run, you'll be at 0.5 at the spaceport; if you do a five map run, you end up at 2.0. Castor Pinho is like Norman in that his difficulty doesn't go up, but his is fixed at 3.0 instead of 0.0. Pilots also have a victory bonus (flat amount of cash bonus given when you complete a run with them).

I'm not sure what the min/max payout multipliers are, though.

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Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



Just finished the campaign, really fun. Did the final mission with the Touro for you guys . The Void Repeats was a really fun mission. I'd kind of written off the Sleepwalker in an earlier mission but I was streaming and someone in my chat pointed out the Black Hand ignores walls. I used the panic walls to my advantage by pulling guys through them and taking them on in smaller groups. The whole campaign was solid. I'd love to see more missions in the future but I'm looking forward to Freelancing now.

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