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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
Jordan wasn't important in terms of any type of belief system or having any kind of social change. This dude was as unpolitical as humanly possible.

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Yoshifan823
Feb 19, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
Ali was the perfect combination of talented, relevant and famous. No other athlete had all three of those like Ali did. Jordan had the first and the third, but like Dexo said, his relevance was pretty much limited to sport.

Criminal Minded
Jan 4, 2005

Spring break forever

Dexo posted:

In Terms of Importance and fame, Babe Ruth doesn't belong in that group.


Jordan probably makes it in terms of fame because he was the athlete who had such amazing branding and marketing dollars put behind him.

Of the American athletes venerated as the greatest of all-time, only Ruth played before the second half of the 20th century. His shadow is insanely long.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Dexo posted:

Jordan wasn't important in terms of any type of belief system or having any kind of social change. This dude was as unpolitical as humanly possible.

That's the thing too. Every category you could qualify, Ali was at the top

Dominance of a sport: Ali is the most important ever
Media influence: Ali is the most important ever
Political significance: Ali is the most important ever
Racial relations: Ali is the most important ever

There is not a single category we judge the value of an athlete by that Ali is not the most important at, or at the very least in the running for

Criminal Minded posted:

Of the American athletes venerated as the greatest of all-time, only Ruth played before the second half of the 20th century. His shadow is insanely long.

His shadow was huge because he was loving fat rear end

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Even in death Ali was telling racist America to suck his dick

He really was the Greatest.

Ali is #1. Jordan is maybe in the latter half of the top 10, all things considered. Ruth, Robinson, Owens, Bill Russell, Gretzky, Pele. Then probably Jordan, in terms of legit cultural impact.

Eltoasto
Aug 26, 2002

We come spinning out of nothingness, scattering stars like dust.



Dexo posted:

Jordan wasn't important in terms of any type of belief system or having any kind of social change. This dude was as unpolitical as humanly possible.

Yeah, Ruth and Jordan were greats in their sports but they never really put their rear end on the line. At a time where people were getting assassinated fighting for civil rights, he didn't back down from that or refusing the draft, losing years of his prime. One of my favorite things about Atlanta getting the Olympics was watching him light the torch.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I am just gonna say it, Ali was the most important athlete in American history


American history? World history and its not close.

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel
poo poo, Ali was the greatest athlete ever, and his athletic career wasn't even the most important thing about him. That is impactful.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

American history? World history and its not close.

*thinks about it for a second*

poo poo pretty much yeah

Cross-posted from TFF:

Keep in mind: Ali's ban for refusing to serve in Vietnam was when he was in his prime: 25-29

We never saw Ali compete at his best. He was the greatest ever and his best matches were in his loving thirties

Imagine what Ali would have looked like if he had been allowed to box during that time.

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel
https://mobile.twitter.com/pink_funk/status/738974034537381888/video/1

This is great.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Criminal Minded posted:

Of the American athletes venerated as the greatest of all-time, only Ruth played before the second half of the 20th century. His shadow is insanely long.

Whenever Ali fought, or did anything it was a loving worldwide Event.


Babe doesn't get close to him in either fame or importance lol.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Dexo posted:

Babe doesn't get close to him in either fame or importance lol.

Agreed

I mean, Ruth was probably the first superstar modern athlete, but there is big a difference between being the first and being the best ever

Criminal Minded
Jan 4, 2005

Spring break forever

Dexo posted:

Whenever Ali fought, or did anything it was a loving worldwide Event.


Babe doesn't get close to him in either fame or importance lol.

Hey, I'm on your side. It's Ali#1, everybody else after.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!
Somewhere, Floyd Mayweather is still saying that he's better than Ali

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel

Ross Angeles posted:

Somewhere, Floyd Mayweather is still saying that he's better than Ali

He alluded to that on ESPN earlier already.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Ross Angeles posted:

Somewhere, Floyd Mayweather is still saying that he's better than Ali

To Floyd's credit, his W/L record against criminal convictions is better than Ali's

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001



Read this poo poo, it's excerpts from Ali's supreme court case in how he ended up going from a 3-5 prison sentence to an 8-0 victory.

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/738974663653490689


Dexo posted:

Jordan wasn't important in terms of any type of belief system or having any kind of social change. This dude was as unpolitical as humanly possible.

You could make the argument that Jordan is probably the best central point in how sports are totally and completely engulfed by crass corporate consumerism. And that neutering of beliefs and social awareness is what sports have pushed towards. A wandering drunken thought at 2 AM at least.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Kalli posted:

You could make the argument that Jordan is probably the best central point in how sports are totally and completely engulfed by crass corporate consumerism. And that neutering of beliefs and social awareness is what sports have pushed towards. A wandering drunken thought at 2 AM at least.

Yeah, Ali was the model of what athletes could be. Jordan is the model of what athletes are.

Youth Decay
Aug 17, 2015

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Agreed

I mean, Ruth was probably the first superstar modern athlete, but there is big a difference between being the first and being the best ever

Jack Johnson preceded Ruth, and in terms of relevance outside of sports he had much more of an impact.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Ross Angeles posted:

Somewhere, Floyd Mayweather is still saying that he's better than Ali

I mean...In terms of the sport of Boxing alone he dominated an era enough where he can be put in that conversation, at least in terms of Boxing. It's probably Sugar Ray(not Shane I'm dumb)in his prime though.

Ali I wouldn't say is the best boxer to ever do it. But his importance was so much more outside of the ring than inside.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Agreed

I mean, Ruth was probably the first superstar modern athlete, but there is big a difference between being the first and being the best ever

Youth Decay posted:

Jack Johnson preceded Ruth, and in terms of relevance outside of sports he had much more of an impact.

emphasis on probably

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

Life is fragile and precious, friends.

RIP to a legend.

boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
:(

Pron on VHS
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling
I know its uproxx but heres a nice 3-yr old article on Muhammad Ali and Malcom X's relationship

http://uproxx.com/smokingsection/muhammad-ali-malcolm-x-fallout/

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP
OJ had pretty big cultural impact too. But not in the way he wanted to.

Popy
Feb 19, 2008

im not ready gently caress

Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Rj58ZTUNc

:smith:

Stealth Tiger
Nov 14, 2009

He was a one in a million athlete and at the same time he was a one in a million human being, RIP

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer
RIP Ali. If I can ever, even for a second, kick a fraction of the rear end that you did, I've had a good run.

What a loving boss. :(

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.
He was a titan, greater than countless 'leaders' and supposedly important men. None come close to him.

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT
Muhammad Ali was out of my time, but anybody can recognize how much he was a champion of pretty much all facets of life

Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 4, 2016

marioinblack
Sep 21, 2007

Number 1 Bullshit
The fact that he lost three years of his prime standing up for what he believed in is something I could never imagine anyone doing nowadays. Boxing is most certainly not the only reason why I call him the greatest.

J
Jun 10, 2001

RIP the greatest. :smith:

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
You're all insane. Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were absolutely more important athletes than Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson in the Americana view of professional athletes. 90% of America could probably name those two athletes alongside Muhammed Ali. Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson took great leaps forward for the cause of black athletes in professional sports but they were hardly the activists that Ali was and hardly the personalities of Jordan or Ruth.

Babe Ruth spawned the modern superstar. Michael Jordan was the most iconic figure of the 1990s including world leaders and pop culture artists. Dude was almost as big as Michael Jackson around the world, and that was probably really close. A case could even be made to put Gretzky ahead of Owens and Robinson. It sucks, yeah, but sports fans in America care more about fame than social change. Muhammed Ali happened to have both in spades which is why he's the #1 undisputed GOAT in American sports and probably around the world (although there is an argument for various soccer stars over the years, most notably Pele).

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.
Fame isn't the same as level of importance, you idiot. Jackie Robinson changed the landscape of sports and his impact reached far beyond just baseball.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!
There's a big difference between "More Popular" and "Important"

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
Oh the second he mentioned Gretzky I tuned the gently caress out.

Really loving Gretzky is who you are gonna go with?

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
I said in the American view of athletes. Go up to anyone in the street and ask them to list the most important athletes to them and you can bet your bottom dollar the vast majority will rattle off Jordan or Ruth over Robinson or Owens. That's my point but I can see that no one likes reading sooooo

zakharov
Nov 30, 2002

:kimchi: Tater Love :kimchi:

Doltos posted:

You're all insane. Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were absolutely more important athletes than Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson in the Americana view of professional athletes. 90% of America could probably name those two athletes alongside Muhammed Ali. Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson took great leaps forward for the cause of black athletes in professional sports but they were hardly the activists that Ali was and hardly the personalities of Jordan or Ruth.

Babe Ruth spawned the modern superstar. Michael Jordan was the most iconic figure of the 1990s including world leaders and pop culture artists. Dude was almost as big as Michael Jackson around the world, and that was probably really close. A case could even be made to put Gretzky ahead of Owens and Robinson. It sucks, yeah, but sports fans in America care more about fame than social change. Muhammed Ali happened to have both in spades which is why he's the #1 undisputed GOAT in American sports and probably around the world (although there is an argument for various soccer stars over the years, most notably Pele).

Are you for real

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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Doltos posted:

I said in the American view of athletes. Go up to anyone in the street and ask them to list the most important athletes to them and you can bet your bottom dollar the vast majority will rattle off Jordan or Ruth over Robinson or Owens. That's my point but I can see that no one likes reading sooooo

To them personally or to America or the world in general?

poo poo I could go up and probably find someone who finds that like Sammy Sosa is the most important to them, as that Sosa/McGuire race is what got me into baseball in general. Personally Jordan is most important to me, as I loving love Basketball and grew up watching him.

But I'm not gonna sit here and say Jordan was the more important than Jackie Robinson. Neither would most people if you worded the question like that.

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