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Glalev
Jan 28, 2009
There's a very fun detail about the moon in Majora's Mask, by the way. If you keep the camera still and really stare, you can notice that the moon is constantly slowly creeping closer. It's really subtle and pointless but it's the kind of detail work that I love.

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Aithon
Jan 3, 2014

Every puzzle has an answer.
Yeah, the Deku transformation with the scream is horrifying. I'm sorry it was the last thing in the session you saw. :magical:

Robust Laser
Oct 13, 2012

Dance, Spaceman, Dance!

Aithon posted:

Yeah, the Deku transformation with the scream is horrifying. I'm sorry it was the last thing in the session you saw. :magical:

I'm not. :allears:

God, I love the tone of this game.

Demerine
Oct 10, 2007

Yapping Eevee posted:

Getting help from the Goddess of Time, huh?



Man, Link's gonna run up one hell of a bill by the end of this adventure. Especially since each subsequent use costs more and more...

That's what the bank is for!

You know, assuming that the Happy Mask Salesman doesn't choke him to death...

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.

Geemer posted:

Why do you think he keeps losing all his poo poo when he goes back?
Ah yes, collateral. I'm almost tempted to keep a tally and see what the final debt will be.
That scream is really something.

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

Yapping Eevee posted:

Getting help from the Goddess of Time, huh?



Man, Link's gonna run up one hell of a bill by the end of this adventure. Especially since each subsequent use costs more and more...

Considering we've got 72 hours instead of the usual 30 seconds, we probably already start with the world's largest debt. :ohdear:

Rogue 7
Oct 13, 2012
God, this game. Every part is so good, and I think a lot of it goes to the mood set by the first 3 days- the enforcement of the no-save policy and the restrictions on your movement do great things to set the tone as you watch the clock slowly creeping towards oblivion without any way to stop it.

And I am also amused by Link using time travel to commit bank fraud- since my understanding is the banker (who I always read as blind) marks you with a mark saying "Link here has 34 rupees in his account", so when you go back in time and immediately withdraw those rupees, he doesn't actually have the ones you deposited.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
And the time limit has officially started. It's a fantastic mechanic. Honestly, while I hate timed events, the only games I've ever played that had time limits as the core mechanic I absolutely loved. So I guess that would be this and Dragon Quarter.

So Fae, you're ahead of this right? I know your gameplay style, at least in these games, is a little hesitant at times. How are you adjusting to having a set amount of time?

Faerie Fortune
Nov 14, 2004

The time limit actually doesn't bother me that much because I figured out pretty much immediately that it does not matter and that after this point, its mostly there to scare you.

I have the Song of Time and as the scarecrow told me, I can use it to manipulate time in other ways than just straight up resetting everything. For those going in blind with me, the time limit in Majora's Mask is basically only there for NPC schedules. You can, at any point, slow down or speed up time at no cost whatsoever. The game (or at least the time limit part of it) becomes a lot less stressful once you realise you have that level of control over the flow of time!

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010



Majora's Mask 3D changes the save mechanic substantially and while it's a more forgiving mechanic, it's also not very fun when you find out you have to do the first dungeon over again because you played the song of time and then shut the 3DS down.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
More importantly, the time limit is at worst a cap on how long you can spend inside a dungeon or whatever in one sitting. In the greater scheme, there is no time limit. You can go back to the first day at any time for any reason, with the only cost being that you might have to redo part of whatever you were doing (and the game has numerous built-in checkpoints so even when you DO have to redo stuff, you can usually take shortcuts or otherwise skip parts of it). The time limit in MM is purely for show and outside of scheduling for the NPCs, might as well not exist. Once you understand that (and it can take a few cycles to really sink in, even if you know that it doesn't matter), the game becomes infinitely more enjoyable.

E: Also yeah, first major MM3D change is that there are save statues littered around where you can make hard saves whenever you want. While I understand why it was done (and agree that it makes the game better to actually play), I think the game really loses something in flavor by making that always available. It wouldn't be so bad if they just added those statues, but they also made it so that the Song of Time doesn't save the game, because gently caress everyone familiar with the original, I guess??? :shrug:

Artix fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jun 14, 2016

Materant
Jul 22, 2010

see, what you don't understand is he now has

THE MANLIEST MUSTACHE

it defies physics


A good thing to note is that if you let the moon drop all progress in that cycle is completely wiped. Items, pieces of heart, the works. So uh, don't be lazy about tooting your horn.

Although, that might be a MM3D change as well. It's been so long since I played the original that I don't remember at all.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all
Isn't Majora's Mask the first time they've ever mentioned a Goddess of Time?

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

Artix posted:

More importantly, the time limit is at worst a cap on how long you can spend inside a dungeon or whatever in one sitting.

That's what I was curious about, to be honest. I always play until right before I can walk into the dungeon, play the song, and THEN enter just to be on the safe side. Even though I have the OOT dungeons pretty much ingrained in my memory, these never stuck.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"
This is basically what I was waiting for. Your reactions to the post-first cycle Happy Mask Salesman scene didn't disappoint.

The Happy Mask Salesman is unsettling as hell, the Deku Mask transformation sequence is incredibly creepy and I'm really happy you decided to test out the mask in this video.

I'm so hyped for the rest of the game.

Artix posted:

Also yeah, first major MM3D change is that there are save statues littered around where you can make hard saves whenever you want. While I understand why it was done (and agree that it makes the game better to actually play), I think the game really loses something in flavor by making that always available. It wouldn't be so bad if they just added those statues, but they also made it so that the Song of Time doesn't save the game, because gently caress everyone familiar with the original, I guess??? :shrug:

Wait, the Song of Time DOESN'T make a hard save? What the hell? What DIDN'T they change in MM3D?

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.
Eugh. It's hard to watch you not read whats on the screen and be confused when it's explained to you ten seconds later. That's just a pet peeve though. It's neat to see someone experience the... surreal tone of the game for the first time.

The game does have some of my favorite music in the series though. And we haven't even reached my favorite songs yet.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all

Artix posted:

E: Also yeah, first major MM3D change is that there are save statues littered around where you can make hard saves whenever you want. While I understand why it was done (and agree that it makes the game better to actually play), I think the game really loses something in flavor by making that always available. It wouldn't be so bad if they just added those statues, but they also made it so that the Song of Time doesn't save the game, because gently caress everyone familiar with the original, I guess??? :shrug:

They changed Majora's Mask Original in the Japanese version to do exactly this. So basically 3DS has the "Japanese Improvements" from the original. Which yeah kinda is blah for design wise but I get it.

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

Hey, anyone living in NA can get Majora's Mask 3D as part of Nintendo's E3 sale for $24 (I think it's about $20-21 or so with a MyNintendo account) right now!

Faerie Fortune
Nov 14, 2004

Drakenel posted:

Eugh. It's hard to watch you not read whats on the screen and be confused when it's explained to you ten seconds later.

You must be new here

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.

Faerie Fortune posted:

You must be new here

No. Just reminding myself what you're like. It's no big deal. Acclimating myself, if you will.

Faerie Fortune
Nov 14, 2004

Okay I just rewatched the video because I was curious about what you could be referring to and if its what I think it is then that's not me not paying attention; I have an awful memory for sequences and while writing down the song of time during recording probably wasn't the best idea, it was also the only way I'd be able to quickly reference it without having to go through the start menu, select the song and spend a couple of seconds repeating it to myself so I'd remember every time.

I promise I've actually been working on my reading comprehension and my sense of direction between games!

Valgaav
Feb 21, 2012

Faerie Fortune posted:

I promise I've actually been working on my reading comprehension and my sense of direction between games!

One day, you'll be able to go back to the Pikmin LP and be as frustrated at yourself as gaming veterans were! :v:

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.

Faerie Fortune posted:

Okay I just rewatched the video because I was curious about what you could be referring to and if its what I think it is then that's not me not paying attention; I have an awful memory for sequences and while writing down the song of time during recording probably wasn't the best idea, it was also the only way I'd be able to quickly reference it without having to go through the start menu, select the song and spend a couple of seconds repeating it to myself so I'd remember every time.

I promise I've actually been working on my reading comprehension and my sense of direction between games!

Huh? Oh! No no, I was actually thinking about the sequence of giving the moon tear to the deku scrub so you could use his golden flower. It mentioned hitting start to open up the menu, and you were told afterwords. Your reaction sounded like you hadn't read the text at all. I could be mistaken, of course.

I'm not meaning to make you self conscious or anything. I'm sorry. To be clear, I wouldn't watch your videos if I didn't enjoy them!

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
Poor Link, he grows up in a tree cult, goes through all the time travel dystopia mess in OOT, turns into a wandering samurai, and then he ends up in this nonsense. This kid is, what. Eight? Twelve? He's probably too young to play Majora's Mask, let alone be in it.

Glalev
Jan 28, 2009

Drakenel posted:

Huh? Oh! No no, I was actually thinking about the sequence of giving the moon tear to the deku scrub so you could use his golden flower. It mentioned hitting start to open up the menu, and you were told afterwords. Your reaction sounded like you hadn't read the text at all. I could be mistaken, of course.

I interpreted it as a case of Fae reading it, thinking "Oh, I know I can press start to open up the menu and select items already, I played Ocarina of Time" and thus not realizing that the game was trying to point out that Majora's Mask allows you to do it while dialog boxes too.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

YggiDee posted:

Poor Link, he grows up in a tree cult, goes through all the time travel dystopia mess in OOT, turns into a wandering samurai, and then he ends up in this nonsense. This kid is, what. Eight? Twelve? He's probably too young to play Majora's Mask, let alone be in it.

It depends on how long you think MM takes place after OoT, but he's around 10 in OoT.

Materant
Jul 22, 2010

see, what you don't understand is he now has

THE MANLIEST MUSTACHE

it defies physics


Some Numbers posted:

It depends on how long you think MM takes place after OoT, but he's around 10 in OoT.

At least a couple months, based on other game spoilers that I will not elaborate on here.

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.

ChaosArgate posted:

Considering we've got 72 hours instead of the usual 30 seconds, we probably already start with the world's largest debt. :ohdear:
Let's see here, going off that logic... The first time reset has already cost Link (100G, x2, x60, x72) = 864000G. How that translates into rupees is another question, of course.

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica

Zain posted:

They changed Majora's Mask Original in the Japanese version to do exactly this. So basically 3DS has the "Japanese Improvements" from the original. Which yeah kinda is blah for design wise but I get it.

There is a 1.1 version of the original Japanese N64 Majora's Mask, but the differences to JP 1.0 are just a few minor bugfixes. The American version which came later has much more substantial differences, and for example the quicksave functionality was added. The save system in MM3D is an entirely new addition, it wasn't even in any of the Gamecube or VC versions.

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

Glalev posted:

There's a very fun detail about the moon in Majora's Mask, by the way. If you keep the camera still and really stare, you can notice that the moon is constantly slowly creeping closer. It's really subtle and pointless but it's the kind of detail work that I love.

Aw man, I wanted to be the one to post about this :v:

If you wanna see it in the latest video, skip to when Fae gets the piece of heart at the clock tower and looks up for a while. Compared to the clock at the bottom of the screen, it's real easy to see the effect.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all

tiistai posted:

There is a 1.1 version of the original Japanese N64 Majora's Mask, but the differences to JP 1.0 are just a few minor bugfixes. The American version which came later has much more substantial differences, and for example the quicksave functionality was added. The save system in MM3D is an entirely new addition, it wasn't even in any of the Gamecube or VC versions.

Coulda sworn that Japanese version had the hard save anywhere ability. OR well the statues were hard saves.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
Japanese version had no quicksaves, but 3 save slots. US version took one out to add the owl statues.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all

Artix posted:

Japanese version had no quicksaves, but 3 save slots. US version took one out to add the owl statues.

AH! That's it. The save slots. I knew there was something that was different about saves in the Japanese version.

Faerie Fortune
Nov 14, 2004

I'm going to be on a train for a lot of tomorrow since I'm heading to my girlfriends place for the weekend to attend her nephews' christening so here's tomorrows update a little early so I don't forget to post it!

Episode 5 - Bumbling Into The Plot

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.
I could never figure out how to play this game as a kid, and it has led to endless fascination with its complexities. I've seen at least a dozen playthroughs of this game and played 30+ hours on emulators because I like it so drat much, but it is so refreshing to see someone have literally the identical reaction to this game as 9 year old me, instead of another 100% speedrun.

It gets slightly frustrating to watch you fumble with things that seem obvious to the viewer after seeing the game so many times, but I completely understand why you're doing what you do. I hope that you enjoy some of the goofier bullshit in this game, because Majora's is something magical

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.
In the fourth video, one of the co-commentators mentioned the town theme changing with each day.

I found a version on youtube that puts all four clock town themes back to back. Days 1-3, and then the final hours. I love how each day gets steadily more frantic, until you get to day 3 which has that oppressive sounding hum in the background.

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica
After all that buildup I can't believe you missed the guy in North Clock Town and left at that exact time, you were looking right at him several times and Tatl even flew over to him

It was both painful and hilarious, if only you hadn't accidentally been competent at running up the side

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
It's great that you can stock up on Rupees immediately after turning back time. It's really not too hard to get that 5000 Rupee goal, but it's kinda time consuming. Money isn't really an issue this time around.

Rabbi Raccoon fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jun 16, 2016

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

tiistai posted:

After all that buildup I can't believe you missed the guy in North Clock Town and left at that exact time, you were looking right at him several times and Tatl even flew over to him

It was both painful and hilarious, if only you hadn't accidentally been competent at running up the side

It's super weird, because I've definitely gone to North Clock Town a couple of minutes late and managed to see that event while it was unfolding.

I'm really confused by why that happened.

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tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica

Some Numbers posted:

It's super weird, because I've definitely gone to North Clock Town a couple of minutes late and managed to see that event while it was unfolding.

I'm really confused by why that happened.

You're right. Basically you can enter the area a little "late" and it'll be fine, but if you're already there and then leave and re-enter like Fae did, it's over just like we saw.

e: Checked for the hell of it and it's the same in MM3D, thanks Grezzo

tiistai fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 16, 2016

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